How do you feel about each of the controversial new features?

[HnRkLnXqZ.1870]

On 6/28/2023 at 1:40 AM, A Hamster.2580 said:

Using this template:

Open World Legendary Armor:

Easier Skyscale:

More Weapon Choices for All:

Runes and Relics:

 

Open World Legendary Armor:
It has been requested a lot over the years. Sure the raiders will cry. But to be honest, the legendary weapons faced a massive inflation with EoD. Other legendary gear like trinkets and backpacks also have easy and hard options. If you want the fancy animated skin, you can still do it the hard way. I just hope the PvE version to be a very boring skin, just for the utility.

Easier Skyscale:
Never been a huge fan of the original one, as it breaks the game in multiple ways. Introduced as the ultimate reward after beating almost the whole game, the community turned into the 'minimum requirement' to play the game. Which means there are tons of guides and a lot of people recommend unlocking it as early as possible. At this point, I do not care. I have my memories of exploring and adventuring this awesome game, while it was still quite balanced. Core Tyria without gliders and mounts, HoT with glider only. That content was fun and challenging with these limitations. The terrain is designed with them. Skyscale is just "f this, I'm out!" with every difficulty there is. As a side-effect, we get a community that is not capable of facing challenges. So we are going to see content becoming easier and less interesting mechanics in the future. From ANet's perspective, this is an absolute win. They do not have to waste precious resources on stuff people skip anyway.

More Weapon Choices for All:
I'm curious about them and how they intend to balance all weapons. Engineer for example, Holosmith, only has one weapon that works with the heat mechanic. The sword. The other classes got all of their skills adjusted to new elite spec weapons. We are still waiting for rifle, pistol and shield getting heat-level enhancements when holosmith is active. Seriously, I do not expect this to happen ^^. If they wanted to do it, they would have done it in the past 6 years. Whatever we get, it will be an improvement and add to more build-variety. 

Runes and Relics:
I see them simplifying the combat-system with this. Probably reduce the number of stat-combinations drastically. With 6th bonus being unbound, they may also nerf a couple of those. Legendary runes are a giant ? for now. Working on my set for a couple of months now and currently pondering whether to continue or not. The other stuff can work out, but this is a different story. If they mess it up, the combat system may change into better a rock-paper-scissors simulator :S.

Edited July 1, 2023 by HnRkLnXqZ.1870

[Batalix.2873]

I don't like this thread because More Weapon Choices for All is actually two completely different features, each with their own problems that I dislike.

But suffice to say, I don't really care for the other three categories of changes either. Not that it is inherently bad to try to revitalize content, but these particular choices are actually going to do the opposite and decentivize players from engaging in old content, which will turn large regions of the game into population deserts.

[Gibson.4036]

Open World Legendary Armor:

Glad this is an option. We’ll have to see what acquisition looks like. Hopefully there’s nothing as absurd as research notes. I hope at least some of my stash of mats will be useful.

Got tired of PvP getting the backpack and two chest pieces, combined with the dismal state of it with afkers and terrible matchmaking. It’ll be nice to have another way to earn pieces along with PvP.

Easier Skyscale:

I got mine before the Return achievements. I did the whole thing again alongside my son as he got his after the Return achievements. My daughter hasn’t gotten hers. I’m glad I’ll be able to accompany her along an easier route.

More Weapon Choices for All:

Fun. Balance shmalance. 

Runes and Relics:

I like what they’re going for. I hope we can easily swap out relics. That’ll mean we can opt for more situational ones.

I think it’s a terrible idea to take away something and make players reacquire it, though. It undermines faith in the game, and will lead people to wonder if it’s worth pursuing gear that can just disappear with a patch.

Edited July 1, 2023 by Gibson.4036

[Ashantara.8731]

14 hours ago, kurogane.9681 said:

Imagine the rage if each OW Legendary Armor requires a Gift of Exploration. 🤣

Gods, now I totally hope it will! 😂

[Witch Engine.2305]

The skyscale changes are good for the overall health of the game, but I can also understand why long time players might be upset by this.

 

 

Edited July 2, 2023 by Witch Engine.2305

[Gibson.4036]

18 hours ago, kurogane.9681 said:

Imagine the rage if each OW Legendary Armor requires a Gift of Exploration. 🤣

I’ve got a few sitting in the bank waiting to be used, and several characters in the 90% range.

GoE seems a reasonable part of a completely OW leggie.

[Ashen.2907]

12 minutes ago, Gibson.4036 said:

I’ve got a few sitting in the bank waiting to be used, and several characters in the 90% range.

GoE seems a reasonable part of a completely OW leggie.

My concern there is that it might end up gating legendary armor behind buying character slots to redo map completion. Of course a system that allows you to reset exploration on a toon that has already completed in could offset the issue.

[Gibson.4036]

6 minutes ago, Ashen.2907 said:

My concern there is that it might end up gating legendary armor behind buying character slots to redo map completion. Of course a system that allows you to reset exploration on a toon that has already completed in could offset the issue.

That makes total sense.

Especially bad if someone has already burned some on leggie weapons.

[DeathPanel.8362]

20 hours ago, Dante.1508 said:

Certain people don't like seeing others get things easier than they did.. I have no idea why but its not for good reasons.

It's the feeling that you get when you've spent 2000 dollars on a computer that shows up on sale for 600 dollars the next day.

I've been there since I got the Skyscale the original way the first weeks it was released before they toned down the costs.

It's not that big of a deal but it still leaves a bad taste.

 

[DeathPanel.8362]

19 hours ago, kurogane.9681 said:

Imagine the rage if each OW Legendary Armor requires a Gift of Exploration. 🤣

I highly doubt that.  Even if true then it just means most people will go back to farming WvW legendary armor sets by being semi-afk in the borderlands.

[Ashen.2907]

On 7/1/2023 at 7:44 PM, DeathPanel.8362 said:

It's the feeling that you get when you've spent 2000 dollars on a computer that shows up on sale for 600 dollars the next day.

I've been there since I got the Skyscale the original way the first weeks it was released before they toned down the costs.

It's not that big of a deal but it still leaves a bad taste.

 

Agreed.

If Ive worked hard for a trophy (of whatever sort) I can simultaneously feel glad for the person whose always wanted one and finally got it because the method of acquisition has been made much easier, and sad that the trophy has lost some of its meaning. Not the end of the world of course, but the trophy doesnt shine as bright any longer.

Edited July 11, 2023 by Ashen.2907

[Dante.1508]

37 minutes ago, DeathPanel.8362 said:

It's the feeling that you get when you've spent 2000 dollars on a computer that shows up on sale for 600 dollars the next day.

I've been there since I got the Skyscale the original way the first weeks it was released before they toned down the costs.

It's not that big of a deal but it still leaves a bad taste.

 

Its unlucky but its life.. And we've enjoyed that skyscale for years now.. They will as well. Imagine how much easier trains and events will be when everyone has skyscales.. Less waiting and hoping on Mesmers and portals for sure.

[Knighthonor.4061]

these features are cool but not expansion level features, I hope the unrevealed stuff is more exciting

[Geralt.7519]

Open World Legendary Armor: I like the idea, I LOVED the return to living story amulet, no raiding, no gift of battle, and a very smart way to revisit past content IMO, can't wait to see what the requirements for OW armor are.

Easier Skyscale: I got mine when they released the Bjora Marches vendor, I'm perfectly fine with having it easier, I don't get why it's seen as a big deal.

More Weapon Choices for All: Unsure about this, my worry is it makes things more difficult to balance.

Runes and Relics: This hits me hard, I have all 7 legendary runes, I got them for the convenience of both being able to change set bonus on the fly and avoid cluttering inventory/bank with lots of different runes, that convenience is taken away, since now I will have to clutter my inventory with relics, if they don't implement a legendary one.

The purpose of legendaries to me is not having to worry even again about gear at every balance patch, the assumption that when you make a legendary you're set for life is going away, that's a huge break of trust IMO.

But my biggest grip with this change and the jade bot core in EoD is that they're adding new gear pieces at every xpac, I don't like this trend, I always loved GW2 for not having to grind new gear pieces at new xpac releases, I have enough of that in WoW already.

[doomer.6095]

7 hours ago, Dante.1508 said:

Its unlucky but its life.. And we've enjoyed that skyscale for years now.. They will as well. Imagine how much easier trains and events will be when everyone has skyscales.. Less waiting and hoping on Mesmers and portals for sure.

>Imagine how much easier

 

siiigh...

[Pomdepin.7068]

Open World Legendary Armor:

Great thing. I go to raids every now and then in order to progress towards the legy armor, but always give up because I don't have the time to respect a given schedule imposed by organized groups, and pugs is usually a chore unfortunately... WvW and PvP require much time and burn me out after a while. I'm happy I'll be able to craft one with more casual gameplay. Plus sounds looks like skins will be much better than the ugly raid ones.

Easier Skyscale:

I already have the skyscale and found the collection to be pretty enjoyable, but it's good for those who hated this method. If SotO is more focused on flight, it will be a must.

More Weapon Choices for All:

I guess it's good to experiment new builds and use fun weapons with fun specialisations, but I'm just a bit concerned about balance which is already kind of bad to me.

Runes and Relics:

Unpopular opinion, but I'm happy the 6th rune bonus will be separated from the main stats. There are some interesting bonuses tied to crappy or unwanted stats for given builds currently. We'll see if it opens up new possibilities or just kill some runes.

Just a thought for those who worked to get legendary runes, I think they should get a legendary relic for free, as they crafted an item which was giving them all the bonuses at once. Deleting one aspect from them and making them craft a new expensive item is a bit scummy imo.

 

[Knighthonor.4061]

I dont care about balance because no game is 100% balance with multiple classes that play differently

[dognosh.6327]

Open World Legendary Armor: Good, the cry babies who didn't want this lost. Roll on !

[Knighthonor.4061]

On 7/1/2023 at 3:36 AM, kurogane.9681 said:

Imagine the rage if each OW Legendary Armor requires a Gift of Exploration. 🤣

Dead on Arrival 

[idpersona.3810]

On 7/1/2023 at 12:36 AM, kurogane.9681 said:

Imagine the rage if each OW Legendary Armor requires a Gift of Exploration. 🤣

That would be kind of cool. Lots and lots of players running around core tyria doing everything. There's a few hearts are are annoying when other players are doing them but otherwise I don't see a problem. Still....they would have to change world exploration to be repeatable. Requiring 9 separate characters to finish your legendary armory seems....not right. That's the main point I would see against this approach.

[Ashen.2907]

2 hours ago, idpersona.3810 said:

Requiring 9 separate characters to finish your legendary armory seems....not right. That's the main point I would see against this approach.

Particularly if you've already spent all of your GoE and would have to buy new character slots in order to get enough to complete the armor set.

[ShadowCatz.8437]

2 hours ago, Knighthonor.4061 said:

I dont care about balance because no game is 100% balance with multiple classes that play differently

Without any kind balance you wouldn't be able to play "classes that play differently" as everybody would run with the same profession that can do most damage and still have enough mitigation or base defence to avoid getting in down state in both PvE and WvW.

In WvW you will only see those profession that become even more problematic as those will prevent any weaker profession from doing anything as most player would jump ship to get high amount kills in short time frame (one reason why boon ball and zerging exist).

Balance is necessary to keep content relevant as you don't want to see that meany of big event boss that you spend one hour or more to just melt in a corner, do you? At same time you don't want bosses or mobs that one shot you or even wipe everybody in a second either as that have also been an issue if you look back in this game.

When most player in MMO talk about balance, it is very often forgotten that balance also is an issue depending on how many that is active on that map (with more or less the same goals) to progress events to the final stage where a main or several main bosses are supposed to end that maps events aka meta event.

There are also technical limitation when we talk about balance such as with more player, the more load it will be for server (hardware side) to keep up with how every client that are online in that map or instance need to calculate and send a response in time to clients and there is also the issue that map need to fulfil a baseline in responsiveness, so we don't get lag and extreme delay on player skills or even invalidate mitigation (dodge/blocks ets).

We have had changes over time for AoE and how many targets that can be hit with AoEs, range on skills and AoEs etc also matter on both side (player vs NPC or player vs player for WvW).

If you ever been to WvW, then you would know that some NPC have a rather high range on ranged weapons, upgraded Tower/Keeps also means reduction of damage taken on NPC  and also more NPC that can do hard CC on camps.

So Balance is more complex then most player that think it is ok to ignore balance issues as long as they can still play what ever game mode or profession as long they don't get totally blocked from any progression in game.

Balance is needed to keep player be able to progress, be able to play without any serious downside as more player are on the same instance or map (as server cost money it is also more likely that to save money that more player will be moved to one instance/shard with enough player to reduce need for more capacity which also need to be balanced both on the technical side and to avoid increasing hardware demand on players computer to be able to play, there is also issues with too many layer from earlier content that like high duration of boons from IBS mastery that needs to be kept in check (if player teleport from one map into another and still active buffs or even stacks that isn't reset when one change map), Portable United Waystation is also something that can be used on other maps which adds another layer, mounts and their skills that do CC, provide Barrier etc.

All this need to be balanced in a way that doesn't make new player feel powerless compared to older player (vets) that have access the same content from how horizontal progression work and now can become an issue over time.

Weapon where designed with the idea that you get a new heal, three utility options and an elite all of this that are tied to a trait line that unlock assess to one more weapon then core had. (There are some profession that are more complex like Revenant that change Legends that includes all skill from heal, utility and elite at once which depends in which Legends one are in at that moment).

With weapon mastery it now make weapons independent on trait line and adds issues as for the synergy between trait line, some weapons have also been designed to work like Holosmith heat (energy resource management) or with Thiefs Initiative and there are other profession that also the same mechanic that now become more complex as weapon will still need some kind of synergy to work with how traits work.

Add into that the change with Rune and Relic where 6th bonus in some cases where specific for certain profession like Wells (four profession have Wells according to GW2 wiki) or Traps which only work on profession with Traps (two profession: DH and Ranger) and you will fast understand that balance is a necessity to keep content in check and make players feel that they haves some impact on what they chose as character, what player spend time (and in some cases real money in form of Inventory slots, gathering tools, crafting and all items that is possible to buy in Gem Store to improve your time as you play to progress) on to get as for gear, weapon, trinkets and over time personal learning how to play their character, all this is related to some kind of balance.  

[Mungrul.9358]

15 hours ago, idpersona.3810 said:

Requiring 9 separate characters to finish your legendary armory seems....not right.

 

Then on top of that, all the other gifts that usually go in to making any other Legendary, just to apply enough pressure that a significant number of people cave and convert gems to gold.

Legendaries are designed to be the central form of monetisation in GW2. That you CAN get Legendaries without opening your wallet misses the point. To do that, all of your freetime ever will be occupied by GW2. I'm guessing the vast majority of Legendary owners out there have converted at least some gems to gold in order to get them. Just no-one will ever admit it, because they're afraid of the social stigma.

I 've done it myself and am not ashamed to admit it.

 

Of course, this is overly cynical, and there's still a chance, albeit small, that ANet make the route to OW Legendary armour more like obtaining Prismatic Champion's Regalia, which would be fantastic.

And here's the part where I gratuitously appeal to the people at ANet with their eyes constantly on the bottom line:

The more people have Legendary armour, the more likely they'll spend money on armour skins from the gem store, as they will be able to freely swap them out.

Edited July 3, 2023 by Mungrul.9358
Deleted incorrect statement re: number of gifts

[Fueki.4753]

28 minutes ago, Mungrul.9358 said:

Only 9?

Oh sweet, innocent @idpersona.3810, this is ANet.

They will require a Gift of Exploration for every piece, meaning you'll then need EIGHTEEN characters to have completed Core Tyria map exploration.

Maybe you have forgotten that, but core map completion rewards two Gifts of Exploration per character.

Thus core map completion on nine characters awards 18 Gifts of Exploration.

[Mungrul.9358]

Just now, Fueki.4753 said:

Maybe you have forgotten that, but core map completion rewards two Gifts of Exploration per character.

Thus core map completion on nine characters awards 18 Gifts of Exploration.

Ah, thanks for the correction. It's been so long since I did it, I couldn't remember.