Secrets of the Obscure or Guild Wars 3?

[Aridonas.7615]

GW3 is not a matter of if, it is when.

This question always brings out the loud majority of people who are clearly new to the franchise with the second installment and whom are unfamiliar with the way ANet has historically operated. We are currently in the Guild Wars: Beyond era of GW2, and the way that Secrets of the Obscure has been presented seems to confirm that for those who know. Albeit, there are probably far less of us original GW veterans hanging around nowadays to notice the similarities. 

Those of you that are saying there is no need for a third entry are merely echoing heroes past that once argued the same reasoning against the inception of the title that we are currently fond of.

It is obviously well-known at this point how rough the last few years have been for them as a company. While they have made, and probably will continue to make, some questionable decisions moving forward… the writing is on the wall for those paying attention and not naive enough to believe surface level public relations statements.

Do you honestly think that Colin Johansson returned to the company to spearhead development of an 11 year old game? Do you not remember the Jessica Price incident and the revelation from a side comment that the early conceptualizing of GW3 was one of the infamous projects actively taking up company resources with a team led by Mike O’Brien at the time? Do you not think that they already know how dire it would be to announce a whole new title without a cross-progression system akin to Hall of Monuments? Why do you think Eye of the North was chosen as the literal endpoint outpost during the time when The Icebrood Saga was supposed to be the finale of GW2 before they were, and this is a direct quote from one of the developers, “blessed” with hastily constructing another expansion which led to End of Dragons?

Ironically, arguing against the potential quality of GW3 under the development of current ANet is acknowledging that GW2 once again has limited resources and a very downsized team comprised of newer developers that are working on these upcoming smaller expansions.

Love them or hate them, this studio has always been known and supported for its collective ambition, creativity, and innovation within the genre. Artists can only do so much on a canvas that has been falling apart for nearly two decades before they eventually obtain newer and higher grade materials to work with. 

I for one look forward to the future and wish them the best of luck. 

[Smoky.5348]

On 7/12/2023 at 6:24 PM, Astralporing.1957 said:

See above. If you think the amount of work being done on GW3 would magically become better, you are naive. If they could do better, they'd have already been doing better.

Sorry, you mistook it. I don't think it'd be better. I was cynically saying ANET are effectively ignoring the majority of GW2 to the point that new content might as well be GW3.

[Ashantara.8731]

21 hours ago, Aridonas.7615 said:

GW3 is not a matter of if, it is when.

This question always brings out the loud majority of people who are clearly new to the franchise with the second installment and whom are unfamiliar with the way ANet has historically operated. We are currently in the Guild Wars: Beyond era of GW2, and the way that Secrets of the Obscure has been presented seems to confirm that for those who know. Albeit, there are probably far less of us original GW veterans hanging around nowadays to notice the similarities. 

Those of you that are saying there is no need for a third entry are merely echoing heroes past that once argued the same reasoning against the inception of the title that we are currently fond of.

It is obviously well-known at this point how rough the last few years have been for them as a company. While they have made, and probably will continue to make, some questionable decisions moving forward… the writing is on the wall for those paying attention and not naive enough to believe surface level public relations statements.

Do you honestly think that Colin Johansson returned to the company to spearhead development of an 11 year old game? Do you not remember the Jessica Price incident and the revelation from a side comment that the early conceptualizing of GW3 was one of the infamous projects actively taking up company resources with a team led by Mike O’Brien at the time? Do you not think that they already know how dire it would be to announce a whole new title without a cross-progression system akin to Hall of Monuments? Why do you think Eye of the North was chosen as the literal endpoint outpost during the time when The Icebrood Saga was supposed to be the finale of GW2 before they were, and this is a direct quote from one of the developers, “blessed” with hastily constructing another expansion which led to End of Dragons?

Ironically, arguing against the potential quality of GW3 under the development of current ANet is acknowledging that GW2 once again has limited resources and a very downsized team comprised of newer developers that are working on these upcoming smaller expansions.

Love them or hate them, this studio has always been known and supported for its collective ambition, creativity, and innovation within the genre. Artists can only do so much on a canvas that has been falling apart for nearly two decades before they eventually obtain newer and higher grade materials to work with. 

I for one look forward to the future and wish them the best of luck. 

Conspiracy theorist deteced...

You take events and connect them to false information, which you then present as facts.

For instance, GW3 was never named as the game project that got cancelled, that's mere speculation on your end. Besides, all the changes they are making to the game would be a pointless endeavor if they didn't plan on running this game for at least another 10 years. And presenting the Eye of the North as a clear indicator that the game is nearing its end, when the IBS ended years ago and we just had a full-fledged expansion last year, is pretty paranoid, to be honest. 😉
 

Edited July 14, 2023 by Ashantara.8731

[Izzy.2951]

On 7/14/2023 at 2:23 AM, Aridonas.7615 said:

GW3 is not a matter of if, it is when.

This question always brings out the loud majority of people who are clearly new to the franchise with the second installment and whom are unfamiliar with the way ANet has historically operated. We are currently in the Guild Wars: Beyond era of GW2, and the way that Secrets of the Obscure has been presented seems to confirm that for those who know. Albeit, there are probably far less of us original GW veterans hanging around nowadays to notice the similarities. 

Those of you that are saying there is no need for a third entry are merely echoing heroes past that once argued the same reasoning against the inception of the title that we are currently fond of.

It is obviously well-known at this point how rough the last few years have been for them as a company. While they have made, and probably will continue to make, some questionable decisions moving forward… the writing is on the wall for those paying attention and not naive enough to believe surface level public relations statements.

Do you honestly think that Colin Johansson returned to the company to spearhead development of an 11 year old game? Do you not remember the Jessica Price incident and the revelation from a side comment that the early conceptualizing of GW3 was one of the infamous projects actively taking up company resources with a team led by Mike O’Brien at the time? Do you not think that they already know how dire it would be to announce a whole new title without a cross-progression system akin to Hall of Monuments? Why do you think Eye of the North was chosen as the literal endpoint outpost during the time when The Icebrood Saga was supposed to be the finale of GW2 before they were, and this is a direct quote from one of the developers, “blessed” with hastily constructing another expansion which led to End of Dragons?

Ironically, arguing against the potential quality of GW3 under the development of current ANet is acknowledging that GW2 once again has limited resources and a very downsized team comprised of newer developers that are working on these upcoming smaller expansions.

Love them or hate them, this studio has always been known and supported for its collective ambition, creativity, and innovation within the genre. Artists can only do so much on a canvas that has been falling apart for nearly two decades before they eventually obtain newer and higher grade materials to work with. 

I for one look forward to the future and wish them the best of luck. 

For anyone that is veteran, specially if you come from gw1, this post is very true.

Dark years ahead of gw2 since gw3 or the new mmorpg is gonna take at least 4 years more of development. And in those years your gonna see very meaningless updates on gw2, reuse of everything, population going down... and the death/maintenance mode of gw2 when the new mmorpg arrives, specially knowing the amount of work to develop anything in this game. 

From a player perspective its really hard to invest money and time into an mmorpg that you know its in its final face, serving as a cash cow for their new project, just as gw1 did with gw2 back in the day from 2007-2012.

Edited July 16, 2023 by Izzy.2951

[Izzy.2951]

On 7/14/2023 at 11:50 PM, Ashantara.8731 said:

Conspiracy theorist deteced...

You take events and connect them to false information, which you then present as facts.

For instance, GW3 was never named as the game project that got cancelled, that's mere speculation on your end. Besides, all the changes they are making to the game would be a pointless endeavor if they didn't plan on running this game for at least another 10 years. And presenting the Eye of the North as a clear indicator that the game is nearing its end, when the IBS ended years ago and we just had a full-fledged expansion last year, is pretty paranoid, to be honest. 😉
 

Its not conspiracy its not paranoid. Arenanet its officialy working on a new MMORPG with stablished fantasy IP, aka gw3. At the same time we are seeing the low resources arenanet is having to make gw2, even in end of dragons you can see how the quality went down. For not talking about gyala delve/silent surf. Less polish, reuse of assets, low attention to detail, reusing animations and combat stuff. 

The new expansion is 2 maps with reused assets and stuff that is already made in gw2. A Wizard vault that is like what they introduced in gw1 with zaishen mission, to do old content daily, weekly, quarterly  to keep people entretained. The combat stuff half of it is just removing limitations, the only new stuff is the new weapons they gonna add to classes.

So they are making a new mmorpg, we know and we see there are low resources for gw2: Eod less quality, gyala delve season 2 living world quality, wvw alliances taking forever, literally 0 content for pvp, not even a single new map, no raids. Do you also think they are not tired with gw2? and that Colin Johanson is back in the company to make more gw2? probably Mike Obrien left cos he didnt wanted to make anymore gw stuff, and his ego was destroyed after ncsoft cancelled projects. Maybe he wanted to make a gw3 back in 2018-2020, but he already left.

And yes IBS was basically the Guild Wars Beyond of gw2, what happened is that their new projects got cancelled, so they basically had to get back to the only game they have active. While they gain more money and restructure for new projects, which they have already done. Gw2 is not on maintenance mode cos their new projects got cancelled, and this new one that is not "Dune" neither a mobile game, its gw3, and when it launches it will kill gw2 instantly both in content creation and players. You can argue whatever you want, but its the truth.

Edited July 16, 2023 by Izzy.2951

[magickthief.6492]

your living story content is now : expansions...lol...gw3 coming soon to a retailer near you

[Teknomancer.4895]

I'm not sure I understand the issue here? The idea that some form of GW3 will probably happen instead of much new content for the current game should be unsurprising. Yes, there's still plenty of stuff to do in GW2 and it's always looked good, but it's an older game designed on older tech and it shows.

When GW2 was in development, GW1 sort of drifted into a low population station-keeping mode and little more. Occasionally an obvious bug would pop up and get some attention but otherwise, at that point the game was all that it was ever going to be. Then GW2 came out and the wow-factor upgrade in graphics, mechanics, etc. was so pronounced that the investment in existing characters for the older game suddenly didn't matter so much. The HoM with its exclusives was a nice bridge between the two games, and the GW2 API certainly allows for something similar in any potential GW3.

GW2 is now where GW1 was, having been designed with and for decade-old tech that simply can't offer that kind of experience anymore. A variety of factors would apply more pressure toward release of a new product, rather than continued development of an existing one.

Both technology and marketing embrace the Tao of Skritt: the bigger newer shiny is always shinier than the old shiny.

[NuggetScout.3782]

On 6/30/2023 at 11:57 AM, Randulf.7614 said:

If they can’t handle a bigger expac, why would anyone hope a new, full mmo?

Id rather continue my progress in this game than start afresh. If it means less content and new features as trade off for continuation, then that is fine

you are a savage lmao

[Vilin.8056]

2 hours ago, Teknomancer.4895 said:

I'm not sure I understand the issue here? The idea that some form of GW3 will probably happen instead of much new content for the current game should be unsurprising. Yes, there's still plenty of stuff to do in GW2 and it's always looked good, but it's an older game designed on older tech and it shows.

When GW2 was in development, GW1 sort of drifted into a low population station-keeping mode and little more. Occasionally an obvious bug would pop up and get some attention but otherwise, at that point the game was all that it was ever going to be. Then GW2 came out and the wow-factor upgrade in graphics, mechanics, etc. was so pronounced that the investment in existing characters for the older game suddenly didn't matter so much. The HoM with its exclusives was a nice bridge between the two games, and the GW2 API certainly allows for something similar in any potential GW3.

GW2 is now where GW1 was, having been designed with and for decade-old tech that simply can't offer that kind of experience anymore. A variety of factors would apply more pressure toward release of a new product, rather than continued development of an existing one.

Both technology and marketing embrace the Tao of Skritt: the bigger newer shiny is always shinier than the old shiny.

Becareful what you wish for:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PA8D1rzrXkg

If this is NCSoft's latest and greatest offering, imagine what's yet to come.

[Rose Solane.1027]

If I would start this thread again I would change two things:

• Change the title to Secrets of the Obscure and/or Guild Wars 3?
• End my post not with a choice between SotO an GW 3, but with the hope that GW 3 would not be to far away in the future

2 hours ago, Teknomancer.4895 said:

I'm not sure I understand the issue here? The idea that some form of GW3 will probably happen instead of much new content for the current game should be unsurprising. Yes, there's still plenty of stuff to do in GW2 and it's always looked good, but it's an older game designed on older tech and it shows.

My issue was some musings over what was announced about Secrets of the Obscure in relation to what we got for GW 2 in the last few years. I could have made that clearer. I agree with your comment. And I am happy some people think I am not crazy🙂

[Ashantara.8731]

5 hours ago, Izzy.2951 said:

Its not conspiracy its not paranoid. Arenanet its officialy working on a new MMORPG with stablished fantasy IP, aka gw3.

As many have already pointed out, it could also be another game (forgot its name). It would make zero sense to apply all these heavy changes to GW2 when a GW3 is already on the horizon.

[Randulf.7614]

6 hours ago, Izzy.2951 said:

Its not conspiracy its not paranoid. Arenanet its officialy working on a new MMORPG with stablished fantasy IP, aka gw3. At the same time we are seeing the low resources arenanet is having to make gw2, even in end of dragons you can see how the quality went down. For not talking about gyala delve/silent surf. Less polish, reuse of assets, low attention to detail, reusing animations and combat stuff. 

The new expansion is 2 maps with reused assets and stuff that is already made in gw2. A Wizard vault that is like what they introduced in gw1 with zaishen mission, to do old content daily, weekly, quarterly  to keep people entretained. The combat stuff half of it is just removing limitations, the only new stuff is the new weapons they gonna add to classes.

So they are making a new mmorpg, we know and we see there are low resources for gw2: Eod less quality, gyala delve season 2 living world quality, wvw alliances taking forever, literally 0 content for pvp, not even a single new map, no raids. Do you also think they are not tired with gw2? and that Colin Johanson is back in the company to make more gw2? probably Mike Obrien left cos he didnt wanted to make anymore gw stuff, and his ego was destroyed after ncsoft cancelled projects. Maybe he wanted to make a gw3 back in 2018-2020, but he already left.

And yes IBS was basically the Guild Wars Beyond of gw2, what happened is that their new projects got cancelled, so they basically had to get back to the only game they have active. While they gain more money and restructure for new projects, which they have already done. Gw2 is not on maintenance mode cos their new projects got cancelled, and this new one that is not "Dune" neither a mobile game, its gw3, and when it launches it will kill gw2 instantly both in content creation and players. You can argue whatever you want, but its the truth.

When you say officially working on a new mmo with an established fantasy op, where was this official announcement? I’m not disputing anything, I just haven’t seen any official announcement that has sad this

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

On 6/30/2023 at 6:57 PM, Randulf.7614 said:

If they can’t handle a bigger expac, why would anyone hope a new, full mmo?

Id rather continue my progress in this game than start afresh. If it means less content and new features as trade off for continuation, then that is fine

Because it's not "them" doing the new game.
When new game is made it's all hands on deck and full steam ahead.

Whereas once it's done, they fire as many as they can and keep skeletal crew for maintenance, updates and xpac creation if that's in the plans.

Edited July 16, 2023 by ZeftheWicked.3076

[Teknomancer.4895]

7 hours ago, Vilin.8056 said:

Becareful what you wish for:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PA8D1rzrXkg

If this is NCSoft's latest and greatest offering, imagine what's yet to come.

Well I wasn't wishing for anything, just making the observation that they're in business to make money, which is going to push them toward a splashy new release using up-to-date technology. That's the sort of thing that gets all the industry buzz and streamer chatter, not some "new minor expansion tacked onto decade-old game."

Of course, that doesn't mean that they aren't capable of completely effing it up.  😆

[Izzy.2951]

6 hours ago, Randulf.7614 said:

When you say officially working on a new mmo with an established fantasy op, where was this official announcement? I’m not disputing anything, I just haven’t seen any official announcement that has sad this

They have had lots of new positions open (and they still do) for a new unnanounced project since 1 year ago. In the description of the unnanounced project you can read its a massive multiplayer online game, under unreal engine 5, with good economic support and already stablish fantasy IP. So yeah a new mmorpg in UE5 and stablished fantasy ip just tells us its either gw3 or gw1 remaster. 

Also you can see Arenanet had like 250 people working on it in their linkedin 1 year ago, and now they are like 315 people after they are recruting for this new project.

Edited July 16, 2023 by Izzy.2951

[Gehenna.3625]

On 7/14/2023 at 2:23 AM, Aridonas.7615 said:

GW3 is not a matter of if, it is when.

I'm not convinced of that to be honest. I really have a hard time imagining what the point would be of such a game. Guild Wars in space?

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

29 minutes ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

I'm not convinced of that to be honest. I really have a hard time imagining what the point would be of such a game. Guild Wars in space?

Agreed.

At this point we've not only killed the Elder Dragons, god tier beings that reigned supreme on Tyria, but we've also killed one of the human gods, and are about to fight off an invasion of Demons from space.

There is really not much more they can logically do with the GW setting, at least in regards to a hypothetical GW3.

With MMOs being able to last 15-20 years of content development, there is no reason to do a GW3 when they can just wrap up the small handful of remaining plot questions left in GW2 in GW2 itself.

[Anvar.5673]

If the unannounced project is Guild Wars 3, I hope for them it's just Guild Wars 2 on Unreal Engine with the PvP of Guild Wars 1.

Lying to the players that Guild Wars 2 could have a future just to milk the cash cow till the end would be a big dishonest move (but not the first one). They don't respect their own community already as there are not community manager and no direct interactions to the community anymore.

I would not want for them to share the same fate as Daedalic Entertainment with Gollum as trying to reach a big ambition when they don't have the talent and skills to do it anymore (look at Gyala Delve).

Edited July 16, 2023 by Anvar.5673

[Astralporing.1957]

3 hours ago, Izzy.2951 said:

So yeah a new mmorpg in UE5 and stablished fantasy ip just tells us its either gw3 or gw1 remaster.

There are unconfirmed leaks that it can actually be the new Horizon MMORPG. We know one of the NCSoft studios is working on it, but which one was never revealed. And since it's supposedly going to be aimed at western audiences, Anet seems to be a good choice.

Edited July 16, 2023 by Astralporing.1957

[Phasma Phasmatis.4305]

The only thing I've seen reported by legit sites is that NCsoft, and possibly Anet, are developing Sony's Horizon MMORPG, that's the established fantasy IP, and that NCsoft was hiring for a mobile card game based on the Guild Wars property on their job listing page. 

I don't see them making a GW3 while GW2 is still in the top 5 MMORPGs, its too risky financially your splitting the community between 2 games which could cause both games to fail due to split community population. GW1 and GW2 could coexist because they are 2 different types of online games and GW1 costs hardly anything to upkeep with modern server tech. 

Edited July 16, 2023 by Phasma Phasmatis.4305

[Izzy.2951]

8 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

There are unconfirmed leaks that it can actually be the new Horizon MMORPG. We know one of the NCSoft studios is working on it, but which one was never revealed. And since it's supposedly going to be aimed at western audiences, Anet seems to be a good choice.

Its not, they have a team working on the Horizon project in Korea already and hiring under the name "Project H". And they have announced they are working on the Horizon mmorpg, this is an unnanounced mmorpg, and if its horizon why would arenanet not say it and shut the rumours about a new GW mmorpg that may hurt and its already probably hurting gw2.

Also if they make a GW3 its not gonna be a GW2 improved lol. There will be loads of different things aside of the graphics and engine. For example i doubt they will make the same error of tying skills to weapons, not adding healers from the start and making a weird holy trinity of boons for endgame. Neither this balling system of gw2 which no ones like. GW2 its oudated and have lots of problems since its foundation, so indeed, it will not be the same.

Edited July 17, 2023 by Izzy.2951

[Derktarlms.6213]

As it has handled these last two expansions, I would jump to another company or stay gw2 until they shut down servers and also I don't like politics when the goal is to distract myself from problems and have fun, that keeps getting lost all the time

[Aridonas.7615]

On 7/14/2023 at 4:50 PM, Ashantara.8731 said:

Conspiracy theorist deteced...

You take events and connect them to false information, which you then present as facts.

For instance, GW3 was never named as the game project that got cancelled, that's mere speculation on your end. Besides, all the changes they are making to the game would be a pointless endeavor if they didn't plan on running this game for at least another 10 years. And presenting the Eye of the North as a clear indicator that the game is nearing its end, when the IBS ended years ago and we just had a full-fledged expansion last year, is pretty paranoid, to be honest. 😉
 

These are objective facts that anyone around since the original Guild Wars can observe clear as day. The third title was mentioned by name via disgruntled employee at the time merely indicating its existence. Where did I say that it was the cancelled project which obviously turned out to be the Dune MMO? Where did I say that Eye of the North is a current indicator of the game nearing its end? It was a narrative indicator and throwback to the original that came to a conclusion at the exact same place, which then introduced the Hall of Monuments system for Guild Wars 2. If you genuinely think that none of this was foreshadowing the same transition into the third entry, then you must not have been around back then or at least have not read the wiki entries. The upcoming content is of the same caliber that Beyond was. That is not a bad thing. It is just meant to hold us over.

Also, how are any of the changes being made to the game notable enough to extend its lifespan for another ten years? They only ever planned Guild Wars 2 to last one decade, as evidenced in their original manifesto and even the way that Season 4 was handled. DirectX 11, ironically enough, took them 11 years to implement. That was out of sheer necessity as, like I mentioned, the canvas has been falling apart for nearly two decades. Of course that is a huge improvement, but it was long overdue and essential for players to actually be able to continue to play the game and the new content. You cannot deny the performance has ever been stable, even at launch. The engine reached its maximum capabilities years ago. But let me guess, you are probably one of the players that thinks fashion in this game is being as shiny as possible thus contributing to this change for the game to continue to actually run.

The entire point of what I posted seemed to go over your head, yet you emotionally respond anyway and call me paranoid. I have no idea who you even are nor you I so why immediately jump to the personal judgments? Have you paid attention to …anything happening in the last 3 years? Labeling someone that is merely presenting easily researchable events as a conspiracy theorist is very embarrassing considering the state of the world and all that has been revealed up to this day. Please, for your own sake, look up the bare minimum of information that is as easily available as the reply button you so fondly use before talking about people like you are aware of how they operate.

[Gibson.4036]

A GW3 would most likely not have the one thing GW2 does better than all other MMORPGs: an immersive, open world.

Edited July 19, 2023 by Gibson.4036

[anninke.7469]

12 hours ago, Gibson.4036 said:

A GW3 would most likely not have the one thing GW2 does better than all other MMORPGs: an immersive, open world.

And there might be less playable races to make armor skins easier to produce. In which case I probably wouldn't be interested.