A fair and reasonable mechanism for compensating the change in legendary rune functionality

[Cuks.8241]

2 minutes ago, Polar.8634 said:

i am full lege but not 1%, due to gw2 efficiency in around 10% which is within ~40000 of ~400000 players registered on efficiency. And i think the fact i was so invested to craft runes should not make my time waste. Rather if any, it should be opposite

So you would not craft legendary runes if the proposed system would be in place from start?

Because if you would craft them anyway (which I assume is highly likely since you are full legendary) nothing changes for you because the requirements for crafting runes will not change.

6 minutes ago, Geralt.7519 said:

The main QoL of legendary runes is changing set bonus on the fly, that is totally going away, and with runes having stats only you won't need to change them often like you do now, that's another thing making legendary runes basically useless after the change, how is that so difficult to understand?

I understand you. Its really about your specific case. If this is the threshold between crafting and not crafting them for you then you are impacted. If your goal is full legendary at some point, nothing really changes, maybe you would get some higher priority legendary sooner, but on the other hand you already used runes till now so you got some value already.

[Polar.8634]

2 minutes ago, Cuks.8241 said:

So you would not craft legendary runes if the proposed system would be in place from start?

Because if you would craft them anyway (which I assume is highly likely since you are full legendary) nothing changes for you because the requirements for crafting runes will not change

i might craft them all just to complete set(back then), but i already invested all that time and i don't see why would i recraft stuff i already earned now. i am ok with rune change, but i would not be ok with crafting them again. I dont have that much time anymore due to work anyways, and probably would not craft them ever. So many good games release soon starting 3 august

[Geralt.7519]

8 minutes ago, Cuks.8241 said:

If your goal is full legendary at some point

This xpac they're changing runes, setting a precedent for changing legendaries, next xpac they may decide to change armor for example, they remove some stat from current armor and introduce a new armor slot that holds that same QoL stuff current armor has (like they're doing now with runes), and the xpac after the next they decide to change another legendary.

Would you still say nothing changes?

[Ashantara.8731]

These discussions are really getting tiresome as they are all the same over and over.

I hope @Rubi Bayer.8493 will get back to us soon to put an end to this with actual information. 😉

[Finse.8526]

I personally don't care that much about monetary compensation as long as we get the possibility to craft a legendary relic.

Or rather; I think that for me there is no amount of gold that can compensate for the loss of QoL when relics don't come with a legendary variant.

 

 

[Cuks.8241]

56 minutes ago, Geralt.7519 said:

This xpac they're changing runes, setting a precedent for changing legendaries, next xpac they may decide to change armor for example, they remove some stat from current armor and introduce a new armor slot that holds that same QoL stuff current armor has (like they're doing now with runes), and the xpac after the next they decide to change another legendary.

Would you still say nothing changes?

I didnt say nothing changes. I really like the change. If the change gives me more build variety options I would support the change.  

38 minutes ago, Finse.8526 said:

Or rather; I think that for me there is no amount of gold that can compensate for the loss of QoL when relics don't come with a legendary variant.

Thats the only real downside. They should come with lege relic soon. 

Besides we dont know how the implementation will work out and the sky is already falling. 

[LadyHawk.5319]

From the expac announcement regarding relics:

Quote

Generally, you’ll be able to get relics through crafting, instanced content like Fractals of the Mists and Strike Missions, reward tracks, achievements, and more. To celebrate the new system, we’ll distribute a relic selection box to all players at launch.

So, they want us to play the game in order to get the relics. My guess is that there will be at least one item in the crafting recipe needed that can only be received from Fractals/SM, etc. They do not want us, imo, to simply crack out our wallets and buy the mats. Additionally, we don't know yet if and when there will be legendary relics (unless I missed something and Anet has stated there is ..which is possible  ) so that we, who have leg runes, can get back to the QoL which we earned. 

We want answers now so that our anxiety regarding the issue can be put to rest, but we will know sometime within the next 6-7 weeks. 
Meanwhile, I have already heard from 7 friends who have stated they will not buy the expac greatly in part to this relic issue. This is not a minor issue.
 

Edited July 3, 2023 by LadyHawk.5319
word correction

[idpersona.3810]

2 hours ago, Cuks.8241 said:

So you would not craft legendary runes if the proposed system would be in place from start?

Because if you would craft them anyway (which I assume is highly likely since you are full legendary) nothing changes for you because the requirements for crafting runes will not change.

I would not. With the proposed change, runes easily lose 50% of their worth.
Personally I was set to craft them (and now have everything I need) but I am waiting to hear if it is actually worth it. If legendary runes lose the 6th ability and there isn't a plan in place to fix that, then the runes themselves are not worth it. There's maybe 4 stat combinations that are worthwhile, and the runes right now are dirt cheap if you don't care about the 6th ability. That 6th ability gives a rune set the majority of it's value.
I might eventually craft runes, but it'll be years down the line instead of right now if there isn't a worthwhile fix to the current (self inflicted) issue.

[tenklo.6104]

im seeing 1 relic put out there....thing is as a legendary runes...... i had all the old relic.... and that how it should be ....if they make new one so be it ill go and find those...

[Tuna Bandit.3786]

Lets break it down.

Legendary Rune, the SOLE reason to make legendary Runes is convenience to never have to buy/craft/run dungeons for any rune ever again.

Functionality:

- Access instantly to every rune in the game.
- Useable on Legendary, Ascended and Exotic Armor
- Unequip without extractors.

NO visual effects, nothing extra in that part. So yes, above is the sole purpose of Legendary Runes.
Since I have a full set (7, even for aquatic, completionist here) I never have to worry about crafting, grinding, doing dungeons, or whatever, if I want to change.

Introducing Relics: The 6th effect is taken from the runes upon a relic. This DOES give more build freedom, undeniable, but it does change the above for me. Suddenly I lost part of my rune convenience and have to again grind/buy/craft for the effect on each and every character.

Also, due to this, Runes are becoming less valuable. Your expensive runes of the scholar (to name an example) will drop massively in price once this goes live.

So yes, considering Ruby's post in the other topic, they did not consider this at all.

I think the solution can be simple:

- Introduce legendary Relic, same function, you only need 1.
- Adjust cost of crafting legendary rune in the following manner: 

Current full set runes (lets go with 6) material cost should after expac be same as 6 Runes + 1 relic.

Current owners of full set therefor get free legendary relic. Future crafters of Legendary Runes and Relics will not grind MORE than current

Second idea, (less modification for the Devs) 

- Don't change Legendary Rune recipe - ad legendary relic as reward after crafting full set of runes. (most would like full set be 6... just saying)

[Graymatter.4723]

5 hours ago, Cuks.8241 said:

Exactly. You could equip your characters with all the exotics you would ever want for cheaper. So you didn't actually made legendary because of gold but because of QOL. And QOL stays, albeit a bit diminished.

So I dont really buy all this request for gold/material compensation. There might be fringe cases where their only legendary is runes and now those get diminished. But I am pretty sure many here have lots of legendaries and full banks of ascended (so they didnt even need legendaries at all outside of a little qol). Legendary weapons for example are not really that useful, ascended are easy to get and once you make a build you probably dont change stats so often. But many here probably have plenty of legendary weapons.

If there is anyone that will be actually hit by this change is someone that is new, has 80g in the bank and is still investing into basic stuff. They bought exotics for 3g a piece because runes have big impact on power lvl and now that rune might become completely obsolete. 

Full legendary players crying about this is like top 1% tycoon crying about having to pay 2 extra dollars for a burger (edit: not implying all you guys are ful legendary).

The big thing you are missing is that prior to this patch, I could create any build in the game with my full legendary set. I don't need to buy anything on the trading post or go and farm anything. That lets me focus on the content that is important to me. I spent a massive amount of time, effort, and gold building up a full set of legendary after the legendary armory was released for exactly that reason. If I want to test a new build from Snowcrows or Hardstuck, it takes me 3 minutes to set up the build. If I want to test various combinations to see what works best for me, I can do that very easily. That is no longer the case which makes this a pretty major change. I don't care about the gold aspect. I also don't mind having to work for a legendary relic, but that option needs to be available at SOD launch, or I am "significantly" worse off than before the patch. I say "significantly" because we don't know how the specific relics would be obtained. Some might only be available from WvW and others only available from raids or specific raid bosses. We have no guarantee that they will all be available from the trading post. Even if they are all available on the trading post, the TP barons will almost certainly start controlling that market. Expect the regular players to pay a significant amount of gold for the various best in slot relics. They could even be sold on the gem store for all we know (I doubt that will be the case). That's the whole point here. We don't have nearly enough information but the net result is that this is a big QoL change for anyone who spent a serious amount of time getting full legendary. As I said above, don't expect the regular players to be any better off. I am waiting for those 20g relics to start appearing on the trading post or people complaining because they are forced to spend hours in WvW to get their relic.

[Graymatter.4723]

4 hours ago, Cuks.8241 said:

So you would not craft legendary runes if the proposed system would be in place from start?

Because if you would craft them anyway (which I assume is highly likely since you are full legendary) nothing changes for you because the requirements for crafting runes will not change.

That depends on whether there is a legendary relic available or not. If yes, I would almost certainly have crafted them, if not, it's doubtful that I would have crafted them.

[Darklord Roy.2514]

On 7/2/2023 at 3:41 AM, Cuks.8241 said:

4. Do nothing because this is an evolving game and sometimes you devaluate old stuff and form a need to get new stuff when new expansion comes and that is completely fine and compensation schemes rarely satisfy everybody. 

Maybe if this was WoW, but it's not. One of the core ideals of GW2 when it was first conceptualized was "horizontal progression," IE no gear treadmill.

They've broken that rule a couple of times, like with ascended gear and more recently jade bot cores, but they have NEVER done something so wild as devaluing legendary items, some of the most expensive things in the game to make and (for many) one of the biggest long-term goals for the player base.

You can't get away with doing that in this community, it's a huge part of the reason why a lot of GW2 players stray AWAY from mainstream MMORPGs.

[Graymatter.4723]

33 minutes ago, Tuna Bandit.3786 said:

Second idea, (less modification for the Devs) 

- Don't change Legendary Rune recipe - ad legendary relic as reward after crafting full set of runes. (most would like full set be 6... just saying)

There is another option that wouldn't be terrible either. If they created a legendary relic that was a blank template where you could unlock different relic stats by consuming the relics. This would encourage people to do different content if A/Net want to lock relics behind that content, but still remove unnecessary grind. A bit like the gathering tool skins.

[Astralporing.1957]

On 7/3/2023 at 6:26 PM, Cuks.8241 said:

Sure but exotics can become obsolete over time and many will with this patch. Legendaries are BIS forever by its nature.

It's exactly this attempt to sidestep Legendary permanent BiS quality that created this issue in the first place. What they are doing to runes now, they will be able to do to other types of gear in the future - and if owners of Legendary runes will not be immune to need for gear regrinding after this change (the same way it always was in the past), it will mean owners of other Legendaries can no longer feel safe about the future either. Because, for all we know, Anet might decide to nerf them, splitting part of their functionality into some another new type of gear in the future, causing even full-decked Legendary players to have to regrind gear once again. And again. And again...

Lack of vertical progression was one of the primary reasons why i started playing GW, and is the one reason why i keep returning here from other MMORPGs i visit. It's exactly the need to regear and the whole gameplay revolving around that that is so tiring elsewhere, and why coming back to GW2 is so refreshing. And it's avoiding even the need for regrinding due to horizontal progression changes why i spent ton of gold, time and effort on Legendaries. Make those things go away, and you will kill most of satisfaction i've had from legendaries, as well as significantly reducing the draw of GW2 to me.

[Marcelo.4210]

On 7/3/2023 at 1:53 PM, Cuks.8241 said:

Exactly. You could equip your characters with all the exotics you would ever want for cheaper. So you didn't actually made legendary because of gold but because of QOL. And QOL stays, albeit a bit diminished.

So I dont really buy all this request for gold/material compensation. There might be fringe cases where their only legendary is runes and now those get diminished. But I am pretty sure many here have lots of legendaries and full banks of ascended (so they didnt even need legendaries at all outside of a little qol). Legendary weapons for example are not really that useful, ascended are easy to get and once you make a build you probably dont change stats so often. But many here probably have plenty of legendary weapons.

If there is anyone that will be actually hit by this change is someone that is new, has 80g in the bank and is still investing into basic stuff. They bought exotics for 3g a piece because runes have big impact on power lvl and now that rune might become completely obsolete. 

Full legendary players crying about this is like top 1% tycoon crying about having to pay 2 extra dollars for a burger (edit: not implying all you guys are ful legendary).

Well, I think you are missing a few of the main points here. Those players who are complaining wasted long hours on those runes, materials and other things. They are even time gated in a sense of getting the marks. But, in a general, their nerf by adding relics are even bigger than just a small QOL, as they will also loose ALOT of variants. There are alot of runes that have the same stats, but change their final effect, and one of the advantages of legendary runes, was being able to explore those different stats, as, we have a big number of runes. With that, those variants will just be gone in a sense, so alot of the Power and Ferocity, Toughness and vitality, and the other variants that share those stats for exemple, just having the different final effect, EG: 10% extra health, deal 5% more strike damage when hp is 90%+, etc will go to the relics. Meaning that the Runes will be nerfed in more than one way.

[Hotride.2187]

On 7/2/2023 at 11:41 AM, Cuks.8241 said:

4. Do nothing because this is an evolving game and sometimes you devaluate old stuff and form a need to get new stuff when new expansion comes and that is completely fine and compensation schemes rarely satisfy everybody. 

You know why I play GW2 and not WoW? Cause GW2 doesn't devaluate my grind in the game. Its stats doing that, I move to another game.

[asket.5674]

The fairest approach would be to grant a legendary relic to people who already have 6 legendary runes and adjust the materials  costs of 6 runes plus the legendary relic according to the current cost of 6 legendary runes. So everybody has to bring in the same effort for the same level of qol improvement.

People without a whole set should be compensated with the according difference of material costs. In a perfect scenario this mats would be required for the legendary relic.

 

Edited July 5, 2023 by asket.5674

[WeightTrainer.3219]

On 7/2/2023 at 3:41 AM, Cuks.8241 said:

4. Do nothing because this is an evolving game and sometimes you devaluate old stuff and form a need to get new stuff when new expansion comes and that is completely fine and compensation schemes rarely satisfy everybody. 

Anet has already done compensation schemes for legendary gear and it worked well. 

[Sobx.1758]

On 7/3/2023 at 5:36 PM, DeathPanel.8362 said:

Just give everyone that has 6+ legendary runes a legendary Relic at release.

Problem solved.

Exactly, that is a potentially easy to implement solution to the issue of cutting functionality from legendary runes. And it doesn't seem to require any change of fundamental mechanics of what they want to implement 😉

On 7/4/2023 at 6:44 PM, Astralporing.1957 said:

Lack of vertical progression was one of the primary reasons why i started playing GW, and is the one reason why i keep returning here from other MMORPGs i visit. It's exactly the need to regear and the whole gameplay revolving around that that is so tiring elsewhere, and why coming back to GW2 is so refreshing. And it's avoiding even the need for regrinding due to horizontal progression changes why i spent ton of gold, time and effort on Legendaries. Make those things go away, and you will kill most of satisfaction i've had from legendaries, as well as significantly reducing the draw of GW2 to me.

Same, never really enjoyed getting "top" gear in other mmos, just to regrind everything every 6-12 months because numbers on gear and mobs need to go up, but in the end you stay at the same relative spot anyways.

Edited July 5, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Dante.1508]

Man people get worked up easily these day.. so glad i avoided the legendary grinds.

[Geralt.7519]

13 minutes ago, Dante.1508 said:

so glad i avoided the legendary grinds.

Yeah but just know that you'll have to grind for new gear regardless, since the relic change affects everyone, and it's a mandatory grind, unless you want to run broken builds (that is no set bonus at all) everywhere.

[Balsa.3951]

On 7/3/2023 at 11:45 PM, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

And here I am, waiting for a gold sink. 

The money I make from my daily meta train has been piling up for some years now. 

i could be ur gold sink sir 

[DanAlcedo.3281]

1 hour ago, Balsa.3951 said:

i could be ur gold sink sir 

😉

[Dante.1508]

21 hours ago, Geralt.7519 said:

Yeah but just know that you'll have to grind for new gear regardless, since the relic change affects everyone, and it's a mandatory grind, unless you want to run broken builds (that is no set bonus at all) everywhere.

Broken builds it is 🤪