Do something about pulls

[Alsandar.7420]

Um, they just nerfed Mesmer pull substantially - you guys won. Be happy

[Burnfall.9573]

Did any forget about Thief Profession- Scorpion wire? its range is 1200 which is Absurdly Ludicrous. What made Anet think of equipping a non-long range role Profession with a long range capability?

This is what I mean about Profession Identity Theft and Role Hijack...

-Professions roles with their capabilities are being given to other Professions...whose roles are completely different than theirs including their capabilities.

How can a d/d Profession can have long range skills, mechanics...capabilities like a Long Range Profession?

example; another worse example of this is Guardian Profession-Willbender

A Complete Bad Design Mess

The range of this Profession having long leaps...completely decimates Guardian Profession role as a support and a healer.

It is as if, Guardian Profession suddenly transform into a  loose wild animal,  'high on medications'

It is not even funny really, it is sad that Professions are behaving like wild animals.

Seriously, there should be a Warning Sign on top of those Professions with the words, 'Beware I Have A Animal Inside Of Me'

-refocusing back to pulls--Just Remove It Completely from all of the Professions

Edited July 13, 2023 by Burnfall.9573

[XenesisII.1540]

I like how my post listing all the counters gets 5 confused faces, do those 5 people not run counters in wvw? do they get pulled often? do they get caught in cc's often? do they get one pushed in fights? Hmmmm. 🤔🤭🍦

[kash.9213]

9 hours ago, Burnfall.9573 said:

Did any forget about Thief Profession- Scorpion wire? its range is 1200 which is Absurdly Ludicrous. What made Anet think of equipping a non-long range role Profession with a long range capability?

This is what I mean about Profession Identity Theft and Role Hijack...

-Professions roles with their capabilities are being given to other Professions...whose roles are completely different than theirs including their capabilities.

How can a d/d Profession can have long range skills, mechanics...capabilities like a Long Range Profession?

example; another worse example of this is Guardian Profession-Willbender

A Complete Bad Design Mess

The range of this Profession having long leaps...completely decimates Guardian Profession role as a support and a healer.

It is as if, Guardian Profession suddenly transform into a  loose wild animal,  'high on medications'

It is not even funny really, it is sad that Professions are behaving like wild animals.

Seriously, there should be a Warning Sign on top of those Professions with the words, 'Beware I Have A Animal Inside Of Me'

-refocusing back to pulls--Just Remove It Completely from all of the Professions

Feel free to ask around other professions and see who would give up their pull for Scorpion Wire. I know how to work around it's jankiness at this point but it's basic use for most users is still only going to reliably connect when it's on a Reflect to pull you in instead. 

Thief professions signature features are Steal and Initiative. Range has nothing to do with that except that Core Steal is a ranged teleport.

[TheGrimm.5624]

Lol, does it oust me if I say I would have preferred they gave more classes options to pulls versus quickness and alacrity?

Nope checking Google it seems that ship has sailed. Can we get more CC to help counter the boon meta?

[ArchonWing.9480]

1 hour ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

I like how my post listing all the counters gets 5 confused faces, do those 5 people not run counters in wvw? do they get pulled often? do they get caught in cc's often? do they get one pushed in fights? Hmmmm. 🤔🤭🍦

Look, loot bags sell for 2s13c, regardless of how confused they are.

But I've said in this thread and I've said many times before, nerfing pulls doesn't benefit them because they'll find a way to die anyways, so it's a waste of time. And here we are with the nerfs and some don't seem to know it happened because it's hard to tell when you're floor pov by default.

Everyone I've seen in-game that complains regularly about it are usually the type to overextend and chase the minstrel ele into the enemy. Then by the time their potato kitten realizes it they get yoinked because there's no other allied targets to yoink and they die. They would have died anyways.

Like really, even if you do get pulled, it's not instant death. Unless maybe you're a necro because your stab sucks and you got no invuls  but you should really know your class and stay back. Or play the troll death magic core/harbringer troll builds.

Other classes (in zerg context):

Revs have some difficulty but should be keeping up dwarf in big fights if you have no support

Mesmers can either run blink or signets.

Thief can run shadowstep, but honestly shouldn't be on the zerg anyways.

Engis can run Elixir S/U; prefer scrapper/holo because of superspeed. If you're running mechanist in a big fight, stop, or at least run the shift signet.

Warrior-- Defiant Stance/Endure. Of course, Defiant Stance has to be cast preemptively. A bit tricky I'd have to admit.

Ranger-- Can be frustsrating as Druid, but you should be a minstrel anyways. Soulbeast has this thing called Dolyak Stance. "Protect Me" is great.

Ele, Guardian-- How do you even  die on these classes?

Also, stop running metabattle zerg builds when you don't have the right party for it.

I mean, I probably get pulled out of a tower like once a month, and most of the time I can get back to the entrance. Heck, I've died  way more to just walking off the tower by accident and then getting killed.

Do people not have any  form of disengage? How do you even play the game mode like that?

But one real tip I would give is take some time to observe the bombing potential of the enemy zergs. Some groups hit much harder than others. If you notice a group pirate ships a lot and takes forever to push you can actually disrespect that bomb and not worry about being pulled in. Walk out the back lol. However, if it looks like a tryhard group of 15-20 that chases orange swords, moves tightly and goes by a quick ambush, then get the heck away from it. Also a group of random guild tags moving very tightly in formation with high boon uptimes; stay far away from that because they will pump some damage and also it's pretty lame.

Edited July 13, 2023 by ArchonWing.9480

[Tythan.2936]

On 7/9/2023 at 7:03 PM, Burnfall.9573 said:

you are entitled to your feelings but I find this disheartening. Remember, your opponent/s...the same way you are putting effort into your gameplay, they are also putting effort into their gameplay.

The difference between you and them is; (don't take it personal), you are using a Toxic design mechanic, to suddenly end their effort in being successful. 

Effort is the issue here and this is why WvW and PvP population is declining with no end in site...Effort are being 'cut short', not by learning skills but my Toxic Designs. 

Instead of Anet minimizing Toxicity in their designs to encourage players efforts,  they increase it...... and finds it funny

In addition to this, Anet implements a Controlling Totalitarian Philosophy, 'to keep the players in check' , 'to keep the players in line', 'use Toxic designs to succeed instead of purring in effort- the game our way without efforts'  to punish the players efforts.

Anet Master Plan is; Toxic Philosophy

'Toxicity is about control, abuse of power and 'cutting short' efforts, using manipulative oppressive tactics to gain unfair advantages, using exploitive strategies to 'take the easy way out'....

 

"Consequences don't care about the decision making process that led you to them" 

Anet Master Plan is facing backlash with no end on sight.  Consequences has now on a equal Mutual Agreement with Anet

Now that is call Fair!!

What kind of mental gymnastic did you just achieve to spit out that whole "Toxic Philosophy" copypasta to justify your unability to dodge/breakstun a pull ?

Learn the mechanics of the game instead of asking for the removal of anything you don't understand.

This whole thread has a strong smell of meteor shower Eles and Longbow rangers enthusiasts being angry cause they can't free cast on a blob of players without being pulled off the wall.
But thats exactly what pulls are for, to catch the players trying to freecast from 1200+ range without any retaliation. As it's been mentionned already, if you don't like pulls you can :
- open your eyes
- realise that if you have the range to hit the enemy, they also do
- go on mount / dodge away / put stability / put aegis / use a block or invul skill / breakstun if you're getting pulled (can be done even during the pull but better bind your keys, if you mouseclick on your breakstun it's gonna be too late)

And repeating this in case you missed the memo : the main pull you're all complaining about, the mesmer focus one, has just been nerfed in range 2 weeks ago. All the other pulls require a line of sight (except firebrand f1-3) so you'll be fine as long as you're not on the edge of the wall.

[Justine.6351]

I like the little ramps between wall segments. No ledge on those 🙃

[oatsnjuices.1698]

On 7/8/2023 at 4:15 PM, Junkpile.7439 said:

Problem is that pulls pierce own players. If pulls would stop first own player low skills noobs couldn't use them inside 70 man blob.

Maybe damage should do the same lol

[Xenturion.9546]

One of the few mechanics which counters boon-balling, clouding, kiting and pewpewing combined should be removed? 🤣 What's the alternative? Players standing on walls or operating siege, dropping all of their damage on you, while you can't do a thing about it? Or swarms of Rangers and Thieves pewpewing you from all directions, while you can't land a single hit of damage because they're out of your range?  😐 Does not seem like an ArenaNet problem to me. Sounds like a player experience problem. Besides for making the occasional mistake with regards to positioning or wrong-timed skill use, getting pulled is usually either a result of being unknowledgeable of when the pulls usually occur or being overconfident in one's ability to counter them 🤔

[TheGrimm.5624]

10 hours ago, oatsnjuices.1698 said:

Maybe damage should do the same lol

I know you joke, but if that was just a database variable adjustment, would make an interesting week test, and it would break 90% of the players' mental states in the same week. When EoTM came out even before the k-train issues players were complaining they needed to understand positional aspects in a fight were a factor since...Edge of... 🙂 

[TheGrimm.5624]

19 minutes ago, Xenturion.9546 said:

One of the few mechanics which counters boon-balling, clouding, kiting and pewpewing combined should be removed? 🤣 What's the alternative? Players standing on walls or operating siege, dropping all of their damage on you, while you can't do a thing about it? Or swarms of Rangers and Thieves pewpewing you from all directions, while you can't land a single hit of damage because they're out of your range?  😐 Does not seem like an ArenaNet problem to me. Sounds like a player experience problem. Besides for making the occasional mistake with regards to positioning or wrong-timed skill use, getting pulled is usually either a result of being unknowledgeable of when the pulls usually occur or being overconfident in one's ability to counter them 🤔

Agree, and I would add, in not creating toons that have them so you better know the abilities limits so you have better understanding on how to counter play.

[Quirin.1076]

Pulls are either broken or... I got pulled out of a tower from ground level inside a tower, up stairs across the wall and out of a tower.  It was so jarring that my camera was pointing at the ground.   I was not going to bother to return to the tower because others were experiencing the same thing.  Inside the tower ground level and being pulled out of the tower over the wall.

Either it is a glitch with walls, the ones you can break with siege, or someone has figured out how to line of sight you using a mirror in the sky.

[XenesisII.1540]

In all my time playing I've never seen someone get pulled from ground level all the way over a wall.

[TheGrimm.5624]

20 minutes ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

In all my time playing I've never seen someone get pulled from ground level all the way over a wall.

Have had this happen when the game thinks I am in a spot different then my local client does. One of the times I saw this and jumped out of game to check my connection my upload speed had fallen to .2 MB/s which also was what was accounting for my skill lags. People on voice had also just been telling me I was in robot mode in voice. Considering my craptastic connection I am still impressed on how little bandwidth the game needs before you run into weird stuff at times.

[Quirin.1076]

44 minutes ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

Have had this happen when the game thinks I am in a spot different then my local client does. One of the times I saw this and jumped out of game to check my connection my upload speed had fallen to .2 MB/s which also was what was accounting for my skill lags. People on voice had also just been telling me I was in robot mode in voice. Considering my craptastic connection I am still impressed on how little bandwidth the game needs before you run into weird stuff at times.

That is rough, I am on a 1gig Fiber line, my download is typically 800 - 900 MB/s and Upload is around the same. 

For context,  I took an emergency waypoint went to stairs to repair with the 25 supply I had on me, then went over to drop my AOE's by the gate from inside tower.  Then was pulled over the wall.  So up the stairs and out of the tower.   The really funny part is it was like the pull in the movie Constantine, where she gets pulled through the walls in the building by the Gabriel.  I went past everyone that was on the stairs and people on the wall, then off the wall through the air to the catapult a bit a way from the wall.  

Too bad when you are in the Tower you have to stand on the very edge of the wall to line of sight people..   Imagine if you could pull someone into the tower to kill them, I mean come on, to randomly pick people off the catapult into the tower, talk about epic pull

[XenesisII.1540]

1 hour ago, Quirin.1076 said:

That is rough, I am on a 1gig Fiber line, my download is typically 800 - 900 MB/s and Upload is around the same. 

For context,  I took an emergency waypoint went to stairs to repair with the 25 supply I had on me, then went over to drop my AOE's by the gate from inside tower.  Then was pulled over the wall.  So up the stairs and out of the tower.   The really funny part is it was like the pull in the movie Constantine, where she gets pulled through the walls in the building by the Gabriel.  I went past everyone that was on the stairs and people on the wall, then off the wall through the air to the catapult a bit a way from the wall.  

Too bad when you are in the Tower you have to stand on the very edge of the wall to line of sight people..   Imagine if you could pull someone into the tower to kill them, I mean come on, to randomly pick people off the catapult into the tower, talk about epic pull

What tower was done from?

[Quirin.1076]

14 minutes ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

What tower was done from?

EBG > Mendon's Gap >  I was at the base of the stairs just to the left of the gate inside.   I was pulled just outside of tower west side just north of the round section of the tower.  If the wall was down it would have been roughly a 45° diagonal pull through the gap but the wall was at 75%
 

[XenesisII.1540]

1 minute ago, Quirin.1076 said:

EBG > Mendon's Gap >  I was at the base of the stairs just to the left of the gate inside.   I was pulled just outside of tower west side just north of the round section of the tower.  If the wall was down it would have been roughly a 45° diagonal pull through the gap but the wall was at 75%
 

That is one of the shortest stairs in wvw, but still iffy a mesmer pull from the top lip of the wall would still be able to pull you from the ground to the top from there, then a second pull to get you over the wall, unless someone found the absolute perfect placement. People tend to forget the pull is a globe radius, not just a flat circle around it like regular aoes. This is why the pull can get players sitting on the stairs if you're in range of the radius, multiple pulls are still required, which only usually happens with organized groups, and even then very rarely happens, or maybe it happens often and I don't notice cause I'm usually cautious in those situations. 🤷‍♂️

If you ever get pulled, stun break and dodge.

[cyberzombie.7348]

On 7/13/2023 at 11:59 AM, Logan.4796 said:

his part specifically is awful: Or at least make it so you actually need line of sight to be able to do them. As it stands it's gameplay designed by trolls, for trolls.

The easiest way to change  that is by making it a tethered aoe instead of the default spherical which ignores LoS.

[allshallperish.4620]

On 7/8/2023 at 8:26 PM, XenesisII.1540 said:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stun_break

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stability

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Aegis

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Invulnerability

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dodge

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Warclaw

🤷‍♂️🍦

THIS ^ and add 2 more useful things you can do to counter, Use terrain or Positioning. YW

[difens.1326]

On 7/14/2023 at 6:06 PM, XenesisII.1540 said:

In all my time playing I've never seen someone get pulled from ground level all the way over a wall.

It happens all the time when enemies attack Hills. I'm building AC on ground level behind the wall (the wall, that is like what, at least twice my height) and then get hit with a pull. In 50% of cases I get stuck inside the wall and die to AoE without any chance of escape, remaining 50% chance I get pulled through the wall completely and die to 30+ ppl after burning my 2 stunbreaks.

Great design, really.

[Aaron.1294]

Also make players deal 0 dmg to each other so noone dies oh and 100% invulnerability 24/7

So everyone will be happy 

[Loke.1429]

On 7/20/2023 at 2:40 PM, Aaron.1294 said:

Also make players deal 0 dmg to each other so noone dies oh and 100% invulnerability 24/7

So everyone will be happy 

Isnt this how it already is for many classes? They overnerfed damage or most things, didnt nerf healing, and kept defensive stats just as strong as before. Also keep adding invuln/block/evade etc., so wvw really is a massive clownfiesta of people taking turns on stage for their 30sec invuln-dance, until it is then next guys turn, then swap again.

Edited July 21, 2023 by Loke.1429

[Triptaminas.4789]

On 7/8/2023 at 11:26 PM, Chaba.5410 said:

That's what a stunbreak skill is for.

U dont understand the problem. 

If u get pulled into blob, its over, u dont have time to press anything, u insta downed, then before u can click down state skill... u dead. 

its very silly mechanics, there is no workaround for it asides having someone nearby to provide 100% stabby uptime. 

inb4: "Stop playing glass cannons", boon balls spin such dps circles and cleave that there is no build that can sustain u. 

Edited July 31, 2023 by Triptaminas.4789