Relics Bring New Equipment to Guild Wars 2: Secrets of the Obscure

[HotDelirium.7984]

9 hours ago, KrakensEmbrace.8215 said:

Not a valid reason.
It was ANET's choice for the new abilities to be beyond the original rune bonuses and it was ANET's choice for this change to negatively impact the function of a set of legendary items players already had. It's not on players to eat your multiple kitten ups.

Again, you're setting a huge and really bad precedence with this. 
I guess at least thanks for finally saying you won't be. But I'd hope you would  understand by now how little value your words actually have at this point with how often the things you post either never happening and/or not being accurate. Ya'll got so much trust to earn back and I don't think ANET is honestly capable. 

Everyone is getting 3 relics of choice from the majority of relics PER character. Ya'll gona be ok 😉

[HotDelirium.7984]

1 hour ago, Kain Francois.4328 said:

Holy... kitten.....        

I have no idea how you'll create unique combinations for each of the 100+ runes.

In any case, I salute the dev team working hard to make this happen. Ye have a difficult job, and I just want them to know their hard work is appreciated. 🫡

I'll just edit this and be classy and say I appreciate the hard work the dev team is doing into this new system and while nothing can be perfect I highly doubt any inconsiderate anti-consumer practices were willingly made.

Edited July 22, 2023 by HotDelirium.7984

[Swan.9815]

16 minutes ago, HotDelirium.7984 said:

Everyone is getting 3 relics of choice from the majority of relics PER character. Ya'll gona be ok 😉

I don't think you actually understood a single word of what you quoted.

[idpersona.3810]

7 minutes ago, HotDelirium.7984 said:

*Dev team working hard on optimizing all runes with stats, creating Legendary relics and the many interesting effects*

They're not working on legendary relics though. That's why the date set is: sometime next year.

I'm looking forward to the new system. Mostly.  But we should be honest about what's going on. 

8 minutes ago, HotDelirium.7984 said:

Some players: I FEel InVaLiDaTeD

And their feelings are valid. If there's enough of an outcry to warrant official response, than it matters. Obviously.

[ZeroTheRuler.7415]

10 hours ago, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

Hi all, I've got a few more answers to questions we've seen frequently. I'll add these to my original post as well:

• Do we need 7 or will 6 that everyone crafted be enough towards the progress? 
  • We recognize most players will have only crafted up to 6 runes, but for players that have crafted seven, the extra effort will be recognized. That said, there is no requirement to make 7 legendary runes.
     
• Why only "progress towards," rather than rewarding the relic itself? 
  • The relic will need to be unlocked separately because relics will have new abilities beyond those covered by runes previously, and the legendary relic will be capable of expanding with new relic releases.
     
•  Is the relic choice box granted to each character over level 60, or do you get one per account?  
  • The relic choice box is granted per character.

Are relics "fastened"  to build  templates or will it be similar to the jade bot system? (I don't wholly like the jade bot system in terms of integration with build templates). Will it be as easy to change things per template as it is currently? I have legendary armor so I can swap out any rune etc. quite easily as needed. I have 8 equipment/trait pages on my most played character (3 for competitive and 5 for PvE). If it's just one relic page shared with all builds... I can see that becoming potentially burdensome when switching roles and or even game modes.

EDIT: I do however see exciting potential for things to be unlocked. I just hope it's tied to templates vs a singular page.

Edited July 22, 2023 by ZeroTheRuler.7415

[soulknight.9620]

10 hours ago, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

Why only "progress towards," rather than rewarding the relic itself? 

• The relic will need to be unlocked separately because relics will have new abilities beyond those covered by runes previously, and the legendary relic will be capable of expanding with new relic releases.

So just like legendary runes with new runes being released with past few expansions, right? Im not buying this argument. Legendary runes have the same functionality as described above.

Edited July 22, 2023 by soulknight.9620

[Mungrul.9358]

7 hours ago, luigiormario.7305 said:

This point seems a stretch, since legendary runes were also capable of expanding with new releases. 

See, I think you've hit the nail on the head with this. I think they've lost the person who knew how to add new rune effects and then add them to legendary runes.

Look at EoD... where are the elite spec runes? No Rune of the Bladesworn, no Rune of the Virtuoso, etc.

So instead of learning how to add new runes and then add their effects to legendaries, they're instead stripping the 6th rune effect completely and making a whole new slot item, which from their perspective means less complicated work figuring out a system no-one has any expertise in any more and also drives the economy forwards, resulting in more people buying gems to convert to gold.

Edited July 22, 2023 by Mungrul.9358
Clarification

[Graymatter.4723]

5 hours ago, babana.7521 said:

No, I don't trust you, I trust the clock on this forum and the one on YouTube , they tell me my post is 24hours old, and mukluk's video was 19 hours old (not currently) when I check earlier.

That's great. Now go and look at the two forum posts and look at the dates from those. We are both seeing our local time. Check the difference in time between the two posts. The one I linked is on page 1 and yours is on page 10. The time difference between the two is over 5 hours and the one on page one has not been edited.

2 hours ago, babana.7521 said:

No, 
https://ibb.co/xsWFbJQ 
the time stamps cannot be wrong unless the whole forum time is wrong.

The quoted time is my local time which is obviously different from yours. Compare the two posts yourself. Go to each one. The one I linked on page 1 and your one and you tell me what the time difference between the two is.

Edited July 22, 2023 by Graymatter.4723
Combined posts.

[Graymatter.4723]

Combined posts.

Edited July 22, 2023 by Graymatter.4723

[Ashantara.8731]

Just now, Graymatter.4723 said:

The quoted time is my local time which is obviously different from yours. Compare the two posts yourself. Go to each one. The one I linked on page 1 and your one and you tell me what the time difference between the two is.

You two are aware that this bickering is pointless? Who wrote what when is absolutely of no interest to anyone but you two. 😄

Back on topic: I'm wondering if ANet might reconsider postponing the Relic system implementation until the legendary version becomes available. Or is this change an actual selling point for SotO?

[Geralt.7519]

9 hours ago, Graymatter.4723 said:

It's still not a lot of money for most western countries

It's not a lot of money at all, the standard version is less than 2 months of WoW, but the principle of taking away a QoL players paid for to resell it to them by forcing them to buy the new xpac, is extremely off-putting, and it sets a dangerous precedent.

Buying the new xpac is not a problem per se, I usually buy ultimates because when I enjoy a game I like to support the devs, but I want the reason for buying new xpacs to be wanting to play the new content, not being forced to get back a QoL you already have, it's a matter of principle, as it is to me supporting the devs.

I can only speak for myself ofc but when those principles don't align, I lose my reasons for supporting a game.

Edited July 22, 2023 by Geralt.7519

[Hotride.2187]

On 7/20/2023 at 4:47 PM, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

•  
• Why only "progress towards," rather than rewarding the relic itself? 
  • The relic will need to be unlocked separately because relics will have new abilities beyond those covered by runes previously, and the legendary relic will be capable of expanding with new relic releases.

How weird that I got ritualist and dragon on my legendary items as a stat choice, on eod drop. That was new too, maybe we should have needed to craft a whole new set of legendaries to use the new stat combos? I can only roll my eyes at this. Some system I dont care even remotely about will wreck my ability to change my build as I see fit (something I have invested thousands of hours to have), and the "explanation" is - but we are adding new things. Should I be concerned about sigils too? Will I need to craft some new bs in 2025 when they get reworked?

Also no FAQ about somewhen 2024 for actually getting the leggy relic? I'm not happy with crafting the relic - but I'm not playing (and by extension buying) until I can actually craft it.

Edited July 22, 2023 by Hotride.2187

[DarkShadow.7104]

1 hour ago, Hotride.2187 said:

Also no FAQ about somewhen 2024 for actually getting the leggy relic? I'm not happy with crafting the relic - but I'm not playing (and by extension buying) until I can actually craft it.

You can't do a FAQ of something that doesn't exist. People have to understand that legendary relic wasn't, most likely, a priority at all for Anet. Their priority is SotO and each chapter release which is basically a huge new Living World Season that's worth paying for because of all the content (not only playable but lore wise, artistically, systems changing etc).

Anet is likely to be now focusing on next SotO chapters releases (developing some, testing another, polishing and bugfixing all of them). Again, most likely, they thought about releasing Legendary Relics in a year or so while most of the dev team works on content and a small team works slowly on Leg Relic. That involves concept artists, lore writers, system team (designing achievements, designing build path, not blowing up the market increasing greatly the prices of mats), environment team to do the events related to the legendary relic acquisition (achievements and/or mats) which probably will be tied to SotO maps somehow and maybe not all maps are already done... 

So yeah, now having to rush a bit things since the backlash means changing a lot of plans. It's not like you can jump twice, spin around, clap thrice, don't blink at all and you have a new piece of legendary gear ready to be delivered. They know they made a mistake not considering the importance players give to leg relic as it takes something the runes provided. If it was a brand new system (let's say jade bot cores) people wouldn't complain so much. But also that rushing doesn't mean we will get legendary relics in early 2024 most likely. If the original plan was to deliver on September 2024 we can get them maybe by May (examples and speculation). There's a lot of things to do in order to make the leg relic feel something special and not another generic ascended like piece of gear that allows changing stats.

And that's why I want a deep dev insight blog explaining the whole process of developing. Maybe I'll be the only one reading it but everyone having doubts about why did it take so long to deliver a sole legendary may understand it's not a fast thing to do if you want to do it well.

[Graymatter.4723]

1 hour ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

You two are aware that this bickering is pointless? Who wrote what when is absolutely of no interest to anyone but you two. 😄

  I don't like people attacking staff member that are here to help us for no reason. That just discourages discourse from staff at a company and is worse for everyone.

1 hour ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

Back on topic: I'm wondering if ANet might reconsider postponing the Relic system implementation until the legendary version becomes available. Or is this change an actual selling point for SotO?

There is no way that they will postpone it. It's one of the four selling points for the expansion (look under "POWERFUL COMBAT CHOICES" in the purchase page). Conceptually it's a really nice addition. The only issue is legendary runes which affects a small portion of the community. The problem is that it's the more established and committed players that it affects. I think part of the problem is that they have designed part of the content in the new expansion around acquiring relics. So they would be removing a big part of the rewards by including the legendary relic too early. This is purely conjecture on my part but if it's true, it would have been a bad decision early on in the expansion development, and there is no way to change that now. All they can do is try and mitigate the damage.

[Pifil.5193]

1 hour ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

Back on topic: I'm wondering if ANet might reconsider postponing the Relic system implementation until the legendary version becomes available. Or is this change an actual selling point for SotO?

It's an odd one alright, the system is being introduced with SotO but it's affecting everyone in the game regardless of ownership like the Desert Borderlands back in HoT.

Is it a selling point? Maybe? Not a huge one, I'd imagine. I know some people were disappointed with the lack of Elite Spec runes so the idea of Relics cooking with each expansion is a nice one. 

I wouldn't be put out of they delayed it until they had the Legendary Relic in place but if the Legendary Runes and Sigils are anything to go by we'll need to salvage quite a few normal Relics to get the materials to craft Legendary Relics. Maybe that's why they're putting off adding them for 6+ months, to ensure that the initial chaos of crafting and salvaging has happened.

Now I'm wondering if they'll drop as regular loot.

[Jaidy.1824]

To me this new system sounds that your taking away stuff i already have/acquired and i have to unlock / craft or whatever you want us to do again. And giving 3 relics per character sounds a bit disappointing. I have various builds on my characters(more then 3 on most) with different sigils...........

[Astralporing.1957]

2 hours ago, Graymatter.4723 said:

  I don't like people attacking staff member that are here to help us for no reason. That just discourages discourse from staff at a company and is worse for everyone.

There is no way that they will postpone it. It's one of the four selling points for the expansion (look under "POWERFUL COMBAT CHOICES" in the purchase page). Conceptually it's a really nice addition. The only issue is legendary runes which affects a small portion of the community. The problem is that it's the more established and committed players that it affects. I think part of the problem is that they have designed part of the content in the new expansion around acquiring relics. So they would be removing a big part of the rewards by including the legendary relic too early. This is purely conjecture on my part but if it's true, it would have been a bad decision early on in the expansion development, and there is no way to change that now. All they can do is try and mitigate the damage.

If one of the key selling points of the expansion is taking away stuff in order to "motivate" people to play to get it again, then this expansion sounds extremely weak to me. Because it literally sounds like they cannot make anything good to carry their new content, so they have to go back on such sleazy hamster wheel methods even if that's going to hurt them in the long run. If so, that is a reason to hold back not just Relics, but the whole expansion, until they can make it actually be good for a change.

[Graymatter.4723]

21 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

If one of the key selling points of the expansion is taking away stuff in order to "motivate" people to play to get it again, then this expansion sounds extremely weak to me. Because it literally sounds like they cannot make anything good to carry their new content, so they have to go back on such sleazy hamster wheel methods even if that's going to hurt them in the long run. If so, that is a reason to hold back not just Relics, but the whole expansion, until they can make it actually be good for a change.

I don't think that's the case. I think that early in the design decisions they thought about adding a cool thing called relics and built some of the rewards around it but forgot about legendary runes. I very much doubt their intention was to take anything away from anyone. It was more about adding stuff to the game. The problem is that we are a month from release of an expansion that would have taken a year+ to develop. There is no way that they can change tact at this point. A/Net are normally good about this sort of thing.

[Astralporing.1957]

11 minutes ago, Graymatter.4723 said:

A/Net are normally good about this sort of thing.

Again, you are talking about someone that introduced Ascended to this game (and was going to continue with gear progression systems), then left the company for years and returned relatively recently. Which is when first signs of vertical progression style elements started to appear again.

And if you really think they haven't noticed how this system makes you grind for stuff they've taken away from you first (or that they did not consider it a good point of this system), think again. They knew. They just didn't expect us to notice.

Edited July 22, 2023 by Astralporing.1957

[Sobx.1758]

11 hours ago, babana.7521 said:

First of all, I will admit this only, I do not know what Rubi's intention is by saying that the blog wasn't changed and quoting me. That was why it was a question.

At first it was posed as a ""question"", but then you simply started stating it as something they did:

13 hours ago, babana.7521 said:

First they lost all trust, now they accused player of lying... that's just great for a new day, waking up, finding that I've been accused of lying.

 

11 hours ago, babana.7521 said:

Secondly, I remember very clearly, because I talked about it with a guildie, after that, I came to the forum , the blogpost is changed by than. 

I also quoted that part of article ~30 minutes after it went up btw

At this point it's clear you're just wrong with what you think happened there 🤷‍♂️

Edited July 22, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[babana.7521]

3 hours ago, Graymatter.4723 said:

  I don't like people attacking staff member that are here to help us for no reason. That just discourages discourse from staff at a company and is worse for everyone.

There is no way that they will postpone it. It's one of the four selling points for the expansion (look under "POWERFUL COMBAT CHOICES" in the purchase page). Conceptually it's a really nice addition. The only issue is legendary runes which affects a small portion of the community. The problem is that it's the more established and committed players that it affects. I think part of the problem is that they have designed part of the content in the new expansion around acquiring relics. So they would be removing a big part of the rewards by including the legendary relic too early. This is purely conjecture on my part but if it's true, it would have been a bad decision early on in the expansion development, and there is no way to change that now. All they can do is try and mitigate the damage.

Excuse me!, I wasn't attacking the staff member, please use word correctly, I asked a question. 

[Geralt.7519]

1 hour ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

someone that introduced Ascended to this game (and was going to continue with gear progression systems), then left the company for years and returned relatively recently

I didn't know this. It explains a lot. Sadly.

[Zyreva.1078]

14 hours ago, luigiormario.7305 said:

This point seems a stretch, since legendary runes were also capable of expanding with new releases. 

And that's exactly why we have all that relic nonsense. They need a replacement for elite specs - something op they can lock behind expansions, so players feel the need to buy expansions even if they are not interested in the new content. If they would just add new runes or grant legendary rune owners free access to legendary relics - all that new op stuff wouldn't be locked behind SotO anymore and that would undermine their strategy.

It's also why i'm 100% certain that legendary relics will require the new expansion.

They are taking stuff away from us, not only disrespecting invested time, but also locking it behind a paywall. And it's everyone's own decision if they want to support that practise or not. So to everyone who doesn't like this direction but has already preordered/is planning to buy the expansion regardless - you reap what you sow.

Edited July 22, 2023 by Zyreva.1078

[Agathon.6578]

Look, folks, let me tell you about this whole Guild Wars relic thing. Okay? The company, they're working really hard, very, very hard, to bring us the best gaming experience, believe me, nobody works harder than them.

Now, they mentioned "relics" in plural form, and you know, some people, they like to jump to conclusions, always doing that. But we should be fair, folks, we should be fair to the company. They've got some big, tremendous ideas, really big, and they're just trying to make Guild Wars even better.

Sure, there might be some confusion, some uncertainty, but we need to trust them. They're smart people, very smart, and I have a feeling, a tremendous feeling, that they're going to deliver something fantastic.

So, let's give them a chance, folks. We'll get the details, and it's going to be great, believe me. We're going to be winning in Guild Wars like never before, okay?

Sincerely,
Making Guild Wars Great Again!

[Spanky.2957]

8 hours ago, Spittinglama.5287 said:

Nowhere did I say you should not be able to unlock these things in pvp or wvw. I feel like you completely missed what I said.

My biggest issue is locking power behind collections or achievements in the first place. With legendary armor and runes/sigils players have invested a vast amount of resources in order to build craft with minimal restriction in order to adapt to evolving content, player behavior, and players' continued increased increased understanding of game mechanics and systems. With these legendary items in hand players have the ability to shift their power into the places they want/need at a moments notice and aren't hampered by arbitrary time gates and chasing a carrot on the end of a stick. By removing power that we already possess and telling us that our current capabilities will be sold back to us up to a year and a half from now AND will require an additional and as yet undefined resource investment is a huuuuuge breach of the entire concept of the legendary armory as it was initially pitched to us. To be able to get these items and never again be blocked by these walls only to have another one put up because they want to pad players time spent in game. And let's be honest, it's also a business decision to increase gem sales due to Gem > Gold conversion (and the fact that people who spend more time in the game are also just more likely to buy Gems and items in the Gem Store in general). Ultimately, what this represents is a reneging on ANet's statement that investing in legendary gear will represent the pinnacle of the gear treadmill and will open the door for them to take our investments and invalidate them all in the name of a 'fresh coat of paint.' My entire argument will be completely negated by one thing and one thing only. Give us the Legendary Relic out of the gate; make sure the system is ready to go BEFORE SHIPPING IT TO US IN A HALF BAKED STATE, and allow the build crafting and diversity they claim to be chasing without making us wait for over a year. Additionally, don't make us invest additional resources after we were promised that we wouldn't have to.