Do you regret pre-ordering SoTO?

[Ashen.2907]

2 hours ago, vares.8457 said:

No, 25€ isn’t even too much for “trust us - future portions will be great”. It’s 25€, seriously that’s how much you spend on dinner for a single day. 
 

Would you have a problem sending random forum goers $25?

[Lakemine.3014]

21 hours ago, leila.7962 said:

I regret buying it more because most of the features will come in other patches.. which doesn't really seem anything different than a Living Season.. It angers me a bit that they advertised it as an expansion, when it isn't. If it was a real expansion, all the features would come at launch.. like any other game does with their expansions. I've never seen a game that has an expansion that is like a promise of content for the future AFTER it's release.

Open world legendary armor, legendary relics, even MAPS!! Two maps will not be ready at the release... WTF? It's literally what living seasons were.. just that now they are taking more money than the full content is actually worth.. 

• Living Season 2 full pack - 1280 gems, a little bit more than 12 US dollars
• Living Season 3 full pack - 960 gems, a bit more than 10 US dollars
• Living Season 4 full pack - 960 gems, a bit more than 10 US dollars
• Living Season 5 aka "Ice Brood Saga" - 960 gems, a bit more than 10 US dollars

They already fooled us with back then saying that IBS would have an "expansion amount of content" .. and what we got was.. well the same as any other season just with a lesser quality story and rushed AF. 

Now what rises my concern is that a lot of what they said is in the SoTO expansion isn't ready yet but they want to take our money ahead.. it will be released at bits but almost at the price of a full expansion!!! When in reality, since all the content will be delivered like a Living Season, it should cost 960 gems just like the other seasons. Anet is being shady by calling it expansion while it will be released like a LS. Why couldn't they just be like, "hey, free LS for everyone is a bad business model and it took us 10 years to realize that, so now we will have to charge for that". Cool, no problem, as long as the price would have been fair to what will be delivered and at the frequency it would happen?

If its going to be released at bits, just like a LS episodes, we should be able to buy it in bits.. as the episodes come out, so we can actually think if its worth or not buying the rest of this clown fiesta..  At the current price that the """expansion""" is being sold, it should be content worth of 2 living seasons.

SWTOR (Star Wars: The Old Republic) and Destiny 2 do this ALL the time. Mind you SWTOR is a sub based game, so its "xpacs" are "free with sub". Destiny 2 however required $130 bucks for its last 2-3 xpacs + 4 seasons of content till the next xpac, and you dont know what the other 3 seasons  have. Plus they started splitting dungeons and I think raids into 10-20 buck extra buys to access them, and armor sets are 20-30 even 40 bucks EACH. And they just started adding power creep pay to win into their battlepass, which can now be bought lv100 day one now, but I digress. (I left just before TWQ because I didn't have 130 bucks to continue playing.) I still play SWTOR because I still have storyline and some achievements left to  do, and don't need a sub for those, just sub one month and BOOM all current content. (only things sub locked are extra QoL features and operations (raids) (Also ALOT of other games are doing this as well. HUGE pay ups up front for the "promise" of content later. $25 is definitely better then $130, even if there are still many issues with it. Doesn't make it right, in fact i detest and lament it. I wish we could go back to just buying something and BOOM complete and done till the next xpac or next game. And plus with most things digital, we don't own it either, so why are prices getting more expensive when we own less? And yes, I know its issues with legendary runes, but people need to understand, just because you payed gold or payed to buy gems to then convert into gold, you do not own ANY OF IT. PERIOD. It's sad, but the truth. It's what this world has turned into and sadly, it will get worse.)

I have not pre ordered SotO yet, waiting till the last day or two (both because I don't have enough money yet and trying to save up a few bucks here and there  and hopefully will have enough by then to get the pre order bonuses, and because at first I didn't like all of the features) I do not have legendary runes, but completely understand the anger and imo its justified, even if it doesnt effect me atm, it sets the precedent to effect me later on. (I only have a legendary backpack, one accessory and pvp armor for medium. I want to make more, but they are WAY too asininely expensive for no logical reason. Open world legendary armor SOUNDS good, but it has to be open world, not ANYTHING related to raids or strikes or fractals. As soon as they even hint at ANYTHING related to that, its DoA. Yes I get that people who like raids are sad there are not any anymore, but there is a reason why they are dead and Anet isn't making any more, people just don't play them to justify the amount of work they have to pay the devs to make them. (In fact SWTOR  is going through the same thing. they just canceled NIM of their most recent operation, R-4. Because it had the LOWEST story mode operation completion rate of ALL of the operations (they have 12 operations and 4 lair bosses (kinda like strikes) Reason why? They over tuned story mode WAY too much because they were only listening to the small minority of the nightmare raiding cliques in secret discords (sound familiar?) and a lot of people left during 7.0 last year because they screwed gearing (among MANY other things not just that but it's one of the big ones) and made it cater to mainly NIM elite raiders. Weird.) Even though HoT my fav xpac, that is the one blemish, raids. I have raided in nightmare in SWTOR for years and didn't want that abuse and toxicity to infest and infect GW2 (which I always had a enjoyable time with the community and its the friendliest one I have ever encountered, only bad parts were T4 fractals and ranked pvp up to that points. Soon as raids were added, those evil mindsets infected EVERY other part of the game and it was saddening. Least it seems to have stabilized a bit with strikes (even though its still half and half, least its not a complete toxic waste land. well ranked pvp still is but thats Anets fault for ruining it since oct 2015.)

People getting the dragon easier is fine by me, (I quit for 3 years, Pof was the worst xpac ever. (yes I know i'm in a minority, don't worry. 🙂 And one of the few that detest mounts, especially the kitten bunny) came back right before EOD to give it another chance, and played through all the stuff I had missed., So LWs4 (first half sucks SO bad, after the narcissist is killed off, the back half of LWs4 is the best storyline content that they have EVER done ingame.) LWs5 and EOD. gained well over 12,000+ AP in less then 6 months, caught up on event rewards i'd missed out on, got the dragon (only took like a week. I like collections and JPs, so they wern't that big of a deal for me, but I completely understand why other people would have issues and why they asked for a easier way.) which made mounts tolerable. So some people getting made over a easier way I do not get, other then the fact of selfish people wanting to have something to wave in front of others because they never grew up past being a selfish kid who has to validate themselves by showing off to other people who don't have something that they have something and put others down to make themselves feel good. I genuinely still after decades on the internet, still do not understand that mindset. 

The relics at first pissed me off, I already spent a stupid amount of gold to get my character geared to try and start doing raids (after 8 months of abuse I gave up for now), fractals Id missed out on and strikes. (But they also screwed EVERY of my classes and specs with the June update, so I just didn't sign in to play since they ruined all my fun till the festival started (its my favorite event because it was my first event ever back in 2014) And only getting ONE PER ACCOUNT!?!?!? Yeah definitely not pre ordering. But after they said we will get 3 per character over lv60? Well all of mine are over 60 and I can pick 3 of ANY of the core 40? Ok, sounds a bit more reasonable to not make EVERY character a wet noodle.  

The weapons being unlocked from the elite specs i'm indifferent on,  I normally just switch weapons around to farm kills for the weapon APs And the new weapons are all meh. I'm a thief main and we get MH axe just stinks, since I wanted OH sword. And the "reason" (excuse) is "duel skills too hard" REALLY!?! Yet guardian gets MH AND OH pistol (which will just be better then thieves, which sucks since I always liked dual pistol from the get go), necro gets MH AND OH sword and ele gets MH pistol which is 12 skills MINIMUM, plus having to add more for Weaver. yet thief can only get 5-6? I.......I just do not understand the devs. I really wish could, but I can see no logic. 

Now I will say the Wizards Tower reward thingy? THAT sounds AMAZING. I just wish we could find out more of HOW it works. Yeah sounds like a soft battlepass thing, which if done well (as in old rewards are just moved to the vendor  and can be earned later on if missed) then it should be ok. Also I hope not a lot of artificial limiting, those REALLY make me made for battlepass type things and just makes me quit since I cant just have fun farming things, but i'm stuck doing nothing till weekly reset after ONE DAY.  So hopefully that is balanced and designed well.

For storyline, as much as I have liked the storyline, it has fallen off a bit over the years. A lot of the characters I like, they never bring back, and a lot of the new characters I don't like much. (Or the new ones I like they kill off very quickly or remove them.) Plus ever since they ruined my self insert of "me" in the commander with HoT, its always been meh on their writing (especially with LWs3 ep3, GODS I detested what they did to the commander with that one.) So just more meh unless my favorite characters show up, so we shall see.

Otherwise, i'll just wait till more info shows up to explain more things we don't know.

Edited July 23, 2023 by Lakemine.3014
added the line about other games doing shady things

[Sobx.1758]

20 minutes ago, Min Min.9368 said:

How can a product be unfinished when they are going to be there at launch and are meant for everyone? Just because a small group of egoistical players thinking they deserved a better version and won't accept a later release, hence it is a unfinished product? 🤣

The product can be unfinished when they need to implement parts of it at the later releases because it's not yet ready to implement at expansion release -and that's exactly what they're doing. They plucked part of legendary runes and then made the equivalent -legendary relics- unavailable for a few months.
Which part of this is somehow unclear to you?

 

20 minutes ago, Min Min.9368 said:

And... your reasoning is still flawed.

Of course it is, because as I already said:

7 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

It's flawed the same way your previous response was.

(...)

Exactly the point. This is what you did in your initial response.

It does with your post the same thing you did with Ashantara's. I'm glad you understand that when it's directed at what you wrote. Too bad you still somehow don't grasp this is what you did in yours. And apparently still try to do in this one with your weird, irrelevant namecalling. But people aren't in any way "entitled" because they expect a feature (relics) to be fully implemented instead of being half-baked like they will be at expansion release.

Edited July 23, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Lakemine.3014]

16 hours ago, Gorem.8104 said:

But isn't that the same as saying "if the devs kicked some dirt on the ground, I would pay them for it, and coddle it and treat it as my baby"? 

Supporting bad design choices and decisions is why games die and are removed from online play and are deleted forever, do you want gw2 to go away forever? Then give them more money when they make bad choices. Other mmo's have disappeared forever, why would you want gw2 to go away forever? Support the dev team when they make good choices. That's how you truly show support for a game you love. 
Most will only buy the min they are required too now because of bad dev choices, if they made the right choices and did things correctly, they'd make a lot more money. Its simple math, in POF it was a return to form for people and was the games best earnings by such a large margin it dwarfs anything they have made in the past 3 years. 

Do not forget that the expansion was announced only one month into EoD. Which means it was 100% always going to be rushed and delivered incomplete. Imagine if PoF released with only 2 maps and none of the features promised, while also taking away something many people have earnt and only giving it back to them after potentially a year. Would that have gone down well? No. Instead PoF delivered and they made bank. When they give us something with quality behind it, they are truly supported and they make a lot of money. 

But as it stands, they have lost all goodwill from their own playerbase and they need to earn it back. 

I find it so funny still that for me PoF was the worst xpac (EoD had some things that I liked, so it's only slightly above PoF. HoT is best) and for a lot of people its PoF. So your not inaccurate.

[voltaicbore.8012]

1 hour ago, Min Min.9368 said:

How can a product be unfinished when they are going to be there at launch and are meant for everyone?

This is not a compelling argument at all. It is entirely possible to release the same product for all your customers, and also to have that product be an unfinished, immature mess. A restaurant can attempt to sell every single one of its customers raw uncooked meat; the fact that such a dangerous meal exists and is "meant for everyone" in no way implies that it's finished.

Whatever your opinion of the "new feature" and their compensation for it is, I think it's indisputable that the development process behind it is extremely shabby. If we believe them that they didn't even realize the impact it would have on legendary rune owners.... lolwut? How is such incompetence even possible? I'd understand if a change they made broke old, abandoned content like dungeons. But legendary runes aren't nearly that old, and they are an important element of the legendary armory, which is in turn both fairly new itself as well as a vital component of GW2 living up to its commitment to doing things differently than all the other gear treadmill games.

On the other hand, if you think the "oh snap we didn't even realize this would slap legendary rune owners in the face" thing is just a corporate lie, that's even worse. It's beyond incompetence, it marks a shift into territory where they feel safe taking away longtime features and forcing players to grind it back... and be happy to call that new content. For once, I truly hope that this "feature" truly was the result of rank incompetence, and not outright disrespect for the consumer.

As I stated earlier, I haven't made any of the legendary runes yet, but have completed just about the rest of the legendary armory. I can easily imagine a future where Anet, from time time when it suits their inability to release meaningful features, can simply take something from any aspect of the armory, trickle it back to us slowly via a new meaningless grind, and call it an "update." I mean, the 6th rune bonus has been part of the core game for almost the entirety of GW2's existence; if even that is not sacred from such shenanigans, then nothing is.

Edited July 24, 2023 by voltaicbore.8012

[vrauns.3215]

24 minutes ago, voltaicbore.8012 said:

This is not a compelling argument at all. It is entirely possible to release the same product for all your customers, and also to have that product be an unfinished, immature mess. A restaurant can attempt to sell every single one of its customers raw uncooked meat; the fact that such a dangerous meal exists and is "meant for everyone" in no way implies that it's finished.

Whatever your opinion of the "new feature" and their compensation for it is, I think it's indisputable that the development process behind it is extremely shabby. If we believe them that they didn't even realize the impact it would have on legendary rune owners.... lolwut? How is such incompetence even possible? I'd understand if a change they made broke old, abandoned content like dungeons. But legendary runes aren't nearly that old, and they are an important element of the legendary armory, which is in turn both fairly new itself as well as a vital component of GW2 living up to its commitment to doing things differently than all the other gear treadmill games.

On the other hand, if you think the "oh snap we didn't even realize this would slap legendary rune owners in the face" thing is just a corporate lie, that's even worse. It's beyond incompetence, it marks a shift into territory where they feel safe taking away longtime features and forcing players to grind it back... and be happy to call that new content. For once, I truly hope that this "feature" truly was the result of rank incompetence, and not outright disrespect for the consumer.

As I stated earlier, I haven't made any of the legendary runes yet, but have completed just about the rest of the legendary armory. I can easily imagine a future where Anet, from time time when it suits their inability to release meaningful features, can simply take something from any aspect of the armory, trickle it back to us slowly via a new meaningless grind, and call it an "update." I mean, the 6th rune bonus has been part of the core game for almost the entirety of GW2's existence; if even that is not sacred from such shenanigans, then nothing is.

The Legendary relic sets itself apart from the legendary runes, serving a distinct purpose and functioning differently. There is no obligation to provide it for free to those who crafted the legendary runes. While it's reasonable for individuals to make progress towards obtaining it, claiming it should be handed out freely or avoiding the effort of grinding for it is misleading.

Edited July 24, 2023 by TheRunningSquire.3621

[Sobx.1758]

36 minutes ago, TheRunningSquire.3621 said:

The Legendary relic sets itself apart from the legendary runes, serving a distinct purpose and functioning differently. There is no obligation to provide it for free to those who crafted the legendary runes. While it's reasonable for individuals to make progress towards obtaining it, claiming it should be handed out freely or avoiding the effort of grinding for it is misleading.

That's great, because if you follow the comment chain minmin is so poorly arguing against, noone he responded to wanted to get legendary relic for free. Just available on expansion/relic release.

Edited July 24, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[vrauns.3215]

1 minute ago, Sobx.1758 said:

That's great, because if you follow the comment chain minmin is so poorly arguing against, noone he responded to wanted to get legendary relic for free. Just available on expansion/relic release.

Other people are saying it.

[Sobx.1758]

1 minute ago, TheRunningSquire.3621 said:

Other people are saying it.

Ok. Which is irrelevant in this comment chain. If you want to point out to people that they shouldn't get it for free, respond to people who want to get it for free. Hope this is fair enough.

Edited July 24, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Caitmonster.9036]

Unfortunately, Anet hadn't even thought about legendary rune holders when they initially announced Relics. They've had to scramble to find a solution and ultimately settled on creating a legendary Relic. But with the expansion a month away, it's possible they don't have the time or development resources to devote to getting it up and working before launch while they're probably focusing on getting slightly more important content in a working state first. At least they've come out and said there will be one, just not instantly on launch day. I feel better about the whole mess knowing that much.

[Aelin.9317]

19 hours ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

Very interesting interpretation of what I wrote. 😂

Edit to clarify:

1. I don't feel superior to anyone, not in RL and not in-game.
2. If they postponed the system, it would not hurt you, because the current system works just fine, no? On the other hand, it would hurt players like me to be left in limbo for months, because we would have to either waste resources on something we will have to dump again next year or not use any relics for the time being, being at a significant disadvantage.

I hope this clarifies my previous post.
 

If they postponed the relic system then they will have sold myself and others the expansion with one expectation and then failed to deliver what was promised when we purchased. Delaying one of the core expansion features because a few players are angry makes no sense and definitely does harm those of us looking forward to the relic system. It's part of why we purchased and was explained to be available on release. Players made a choice to purchase with that understanding. 

I'm largely indifferent to whatever other compensation they will give to those with leggy runes. I think some is due, certainly. But delaying a feature the expansion was advertised to have available at launch is unacceptable and I highly doubt they'd do it. Why should the rest of the playerbase have to wait around because a minority of players demand it? 

 

[Sythus.2396]

No, I don't regret it at all. Why would I? I know I will play the game and am excited to get more new content. Can't come soon enough tbh

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

I didn't pre-order it.  Honestly, this is the first time I've considered simply not buying an expansion.  

[Ashen.2907]

5 hours ago, Aelin.9317 said:

If they postponed the relic system then they will have sold myself and others the expansion with one expectation and then failed to deliver what was promised when we purchased. Delaying one of the core expansion features because a few players are angry makes no sense and definitely does harm those of us looking forward to the relic system. It's part of why we purchased and was explained to be available on release. Players made a choice to purchase with that understanding. 

I'm largely indifferent to whatever other compensation they will give to those with leggy runes. I think some is due, certainly. But delaying a feature the expansion was advertised to have available at launch is unacceptable and I highly doubt they'd do it. Why should the rest of the playerbase have to wait around because a minority of players demand it? 

 

Runes, legendary or otherwise, were described as having the special sixth slot functionality when they were purchased. Those sixth slot bonuses are part of why we purchased them. Players made a choice to purchase with that understanding.

And a set of legendary runes costs more than any of the expansion tiers.

[Geralt.7519]

10 hours ago, Lakemine.3014 said:

And yes, I know its issues with legendary runes, but people need to understand, just because you payed gold or payed to buy gems to then convert into gold, you do not own ANY OF IT. PERIOD.

It's a matter of trust.

Ofc Anet own the game and they have the right to do whatever they want with it, it doesn't mean players have to accept it, spending their time and money on a product they're not satisfied with anymore.

Legendaries are a massive investment of time/effort/money, they're worth pursuing only if players can trust their QoL/convenience is not devalued over time. Break that trust and most people won't make legendaries anymore, losing a long term goal that keeps them regularly engaged with the game and motivates them to spend money on it.

A free* legendary relic for those who craft a full set of runes is a sign that legendaries can still be trusted in the long run. If that's not the case anymore, why bother?

Edit: *relatively, what I mean is we still have to see what "significant progress" means before we can make a final judgment.

Edited July 24, 2023 by Geralt.7519

[Aelin.9317]

3 hours ago, Ashen.2907 said:

Runes, legendary or otherwise, were described as having the special sixth slot functionality when they were purchased. Those sixth slot bonuses are part of why we purchased them. Players made a choice to purchase with that understanding.

And a set of legendary runes costs more than any of the expansion tiers.

Wasn't legendary runes released on their own and not part of an expansion? So during living world? In other words people didn't pay anything for them. If they chose to swipe and buy gems to convert that's their choice but they didn't have to pay anything at all. 

If I had paid for it, I'd ask a refund. If people find their runes no longer worth it at all. Arguing a return on investment in terms of gold value if someone no longer wants those runes. Or partial return, which looks to be what you will get with progress towards the new legendary. 

Delaying the relics to satisfy a handful of salty players that can't be bothered dealing with some exotic runes for a few months? No, thank you. I understand the salt. But your annoyance shouldn't come at the expense of myself and others. It's mind boggling how they forgot about legendary runes and seemingly hadn't thought of a leggy relic but they are fixing the issue. Just a shame they can't be all that fast about it. 

 

[leila.7962]

21 hours ago, Izzy.2951 said:

I mean its not that the expansion is unfinished, a dev said more than 1 month ago that they were finishing the 2nd part of the 3 map that will come in the future. So basically all the expansion (launch) and post expansion content is done.

They dont deliver it the same day of launch because then, they will have 1.5 years of 0 content until the next expansion, which was the complaits of the community. So they basically want you to be login at least every 3 months, while also trying to make you purchase stuff from the gemstore in that process.

Im not mad at that. They are gonna be delivering content more often. What im mad about is the quality of the content, the abandonned raids and pvp, and that we will get probably no big features anymore, since they have a small team with rushed expansion cycles.

It's simple, if it's not ready at release then it is unfinished lol.. If its 25% finished, 50% finished.. 80.. 90.. it's still not ready at launch.
HoT and PoF were true expansions.. many things to go after on release, enough to have months of gameplay. All maps released at launch, all collections, achievements, masteries, etc. While SoTO's features are mainly promises to the future.. future maps, future relics, future legendary armor, future legendary relic.. @_@

By saying that they basically want you to log in every 3 months is a failure in my books.. It's not a fancy restaurant that we are talking about, it's a game that it's contents highly depends on people being active so everyone can play. If it was back on GW1 that things could be done without any human in your party, cool. But it's not.. everything requires people loging in every day, not once every 3 months.

This """"expansion""" should have been named Secrets of the Obscure Future.

Edited July 24, 2023 by leila.7962

[Cuks.8241]

I never pre-order stuff. It's not really about the money, its just a concept I don't like.

But I am sure that I will buy the expansion because gw2 in general is such unparalleled value for money in the industry. I would even pay for IBS if I had to, even though the quality of the second half was probably the low point of the game, it would still be most likely worth it for me.

I just spent over 60 EUR for a AAA popular new multiplayer game and it wasn't long that I came back to gw2. Yeah the game sometimes has its setback and its easy to criticise but once you go to the other side you quickly realise how good this game actually is. Not just gameplay, Anet really is taking it easy on the cash grabs. In other games, even though they cost a lot more, I constantly get bombarded with more and more microtransactions, battle passes, fomo (and not only cosmetics which I don't care much for, so its easy to avoid for me), even pay2win.

But don't get me wrong. If you don't like the direction of the game, the only real way to get the msg across is by not giving them money. 

[Izzy.2951]

2 hours ago, leila.7962 said:

It's simple, if it's not ready at release then it is unfinished lol.. If its 25% finished, 50% finished.. 80.. 90.. it's still not ready at launch.
HoT and PoF were true expansions.. many things to go after on release, enough to have months of gameplay. All maps released at launch, all collections, achievements, masteries, etc. While SoTO's features are mainly promises to the future.. future maps, future relics, future legendary armor, future legendary relic.. @_@

By saying that they basically want you to log in every 3 months is a failure in my books.. It's not a fancy restaurant that we are talking about, it's a game that it's contents highly depends on people being active so everyone can play. If it was back on GW1 that things could be done without any human in your party, cool. But it's not.. everything requires people loging in every day, not once every 3 months.

This """"expansion""" should have been named Secrets of the Obscure Future.

You must have been living in a cave this past 2 years. The main complaint of gw community was the lack of content, the main complaint of arenanet was that they couldnt hype living world seasons cos it was a weird system that nobody outside gw2 community care about.

So the plan is instead of releasing everything one day and then having a desert of updates until 1,5-2 years. They are gonna spread it out and just do expansions every 1-1.5 year.

My concern is not about that, i think the expansion system for arenanet can work better than LWseasons and for players ur getting content more frequently. My concern is that the quality of the content has been so poor, + abandon of raids and pvp, + no reworks on LFG, + probably no big features anymore cos this rush cycle and low resources from arenanet.

Edited July 24, 2023 by Izzy.2951

[Luthan.5236]

No regret here. Got the Ultimate for the gems and the base expansion is not too expensive. (I see it as having bought the gems at full price + the deluxe content for free instead of having bought discounted gems. Since I'd have bought gems anyway.)

Story-wise I do not really expect much - after EoD. The setting itself could be interesting though. And the stuff listed ... is not something that should make someone regret. (Unless they are like "ArenaNet makes bad changes I regret having given them my money".) Changes will get made regardless of expansion status or not.

You don't like the rune changes or that people will get an easier Skyscale? - not buying the expansion won't stop that changes and people will just buy it and get their easier Skyscale. Similar the legendary armor from PvE.

The only thing that might make me regret is ... "poor content". But I also did not expect that much there. And 25 for the weapon changes - not that bad I actually think this could be interesting. (I think the new one per profession will be free regardless of expansion status - but that weaponmaster thing where you can use the ones from other elite specs ... will be part of the expansion and only be able to used if you have bought SotO.)

[Batalix.2873]

5 hours ago, leila.7962 said:

It's simple, if it's not ready at release then it is unfinished lol.. If its 25% finished, 50% finished.. 80.. 90.. it's still not ready at launch.
HoT and PoF were true expansions.. many things to go after on release, enough to have months of gameplay. All maps released at launch, all collections, achievements, masteries, etc. While SoTO's features are mainly promises to the future.. future maps, future relics, future legendary armor, future legendary relic.. @_@

By saying that they basically want you to log in every 3 months is a failure in my books.. It's not a fancy restaurant that we are talking about, it's a game that it's contents highly depends on people being active so everyone can play. If it was back on GW1 that things could be done without any human in your party, cool. But it's not.. everything requires people loging in every day, not once every 3 months.

This """"expansion""" should have been named Secrets of the Obscure Future.

EoD was largely this future promise too.

To be clear, I do not think transitioning to a future content model is bad, when a game is quite decidedly transitioning to something resembling maintenance mode. Where "active development" of new systems is generally stopped, and new content just amounts to using what already exists to provide things that are very resource-conservative as a treat for dedicated players. Things like a little extra story arc. FFXI pulled that off a couple times to reasonable success.

Where EoD/SotO bother me is threefold:

1) There is deliberate misleading of players by trying to work the game up as still being in full force, when it is really much closer to small-team maintenance mode.

2) These "expansions" are not just allowing themselves to be story expansions. They are actively upheaving years of solid design that had just been approaching a mature state. The prior, complete experiences of prior expansions are being gutted and cannibalized to maintain the facade listed in number 1.

3) The devs' inability to reconcile points 1 and 2 has resulted in the worst development whiplash. On the content creation side, good long-term concepts are cut to panickedly push out the next thing. And on the player side, none of the overarching design promises made by the game have been upheld, and we aren't even allowed to hope that the sort of game we are playing within will be the same even a few months down the line. That legendary or that collection or that espec may just be totally obviated, and possibly just after we manage to obtain it.

To condense all of these three points. IBS was actually a healthy transition for the game to take. It was clearly of the sort of responsible transition I described, clearly communicated to the players, and was putting out pretty solid content. It *was* GW2 winding down in a way that was healthy for all parties.

And then NCSoft/ANet kittened it all up by trying to Necro the game as a quick safety net, with clearly no long term plan in mind. And the biggest sin of all I think is that several years later, they still don't have any justification to show for it. Their butchering of GW2 to "stall" while they developed "the next thing" still hasn't produced any shred of evidence that GW3 or whatever is even close to being finished.

This is the worst exploitation of goodwill and why I am not suffering this game anymore.

Edited July 24, 2023 by Batalix.2873

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

16 minutes ago, Batalix.2873 said:

To condense all of these three points. IBS was actually a healthy transition for the game to take. It was clearly of the sort of responsible transition I described, clearly communicated to the players, and was putting out pretty solid content. It *was* GW2 winding down in a way that was healthy for all parties.

 

Agree with everything but this part. IBS was "sold" as expansion like content.

But yeah, this seems like maintenance mode all over again, but unlike GW1 live team, there's no Linsey Murdock and John Stumme.

[Batalix.2873]

16 minutes ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

Agree with everything but this part. IBS was "sold" as expansion like content.

But yeah, this seems like maintenance mode all over again, but unlike GW1 live team, there's no Linsey Murdock and John Stumme.

I got the impression they were quite honest about it being a living world model, and at least more obviously admitting the game was moving away from expansions (and that the devs felt the game was fairly complete with HoT/PoF).

Yeah I will concede there may have been still some PR-speak, but I don't think it was nearly the level of duping that EoD/SotO have been. EoD ruined IBS prematurely and they never addressed that. EoD was marketed as "another expansion" on the level of HoT/PoF when it was quite rushed, incomplete, and lacking in meaningful additions to the game. SotO quite likely cut short a LWS6 that would have more naturally transitioned us back to that part of the world. But by far the worst was ANet panickedly announcing a fourth expac a month after EoD dropped, while conveniently neglecting to reveal this new expansion model for almost an entire year, with tons of communication drought in between.

Edited July 24, 2023 by Batalix.2873

[Gaeb.2837]

On 7/22/2023 at 5:45 AM, HnRkLnXqZ.1870 said:

The way they are restructuring the combat system gives me a massive headache. With every further patch, they simplify our complex system more and more. The relics introduction and rune rework go into the same direction. They promise they will add plenty of options, but I fear that some of the interesting combinations will vanish.

Yerp. I preordered then hopped back into the game and found out they'd massively changed Scourge, Scrapper, and Herald playstyles for the worse (from my POV). Worry a good bit about the rune/relic rework (nightmare runes, traveler runes top of my list for probably going to get nerfed somehow). 

[Gehenna.3625]

On 7/23/2023 at 3:33 AM, leila.7962 said:

I regret buying it more because most of the features will come in other patches.. which doesn't really seem anything different than a Living Season.. It angers me a bit that they advertised it as an expansion, when it isn't. If it was a real expansion, all the features would come at launch.. like any other game does with their expansions. I've never seen a game that has an expansion that is like a promise of content for the future AFTER it's release.

SWTOR has been doing that for years. I guess they want to space things out over a year so that people will not just binge the expansion for a couple of months and then leave the game until there's another expansion out. 🤷‍♂️