Am I the only one not enjoying this expansion?

[Teknomancer.4895]

On 8/23/2023 at 2:38 PM, WeightTrainer.3219 said:

For anyone who does not like the latest expansion(s) the best thing they can do to make sure Arenanet knows this is not the forums. It is to not purchase the expansion.

How would you know if you didn't like it without purchasing it?

[Eekasqueak.7850]

It got me playing the game more so I'd say I like it a good deal. 

[Naxos.2503]

On 8/23/2023 at 2:26 PM, XCLASSGAMING.9830 said:

You...you do know how other expansions in other games work, right? This is very normal standard for majority of other MMOs. 

Something bothered me with that statement, and I now can explain why.

Other games expansions certainly do -not- work like this. An expansion is a self contained content patch. It's released -in full-, from the moment it is paid for. This is not it. Everyone paid full price for 1/4 of an expansion, and the expectations that we'll get the rest of the content later. Personally I did not see that mentionned anywhere when it was announced, if it was, it certainly wasn't advertised.

There is a very clear difference between an expansion, and a paid patch. With the current amount of new content (next to nil) that cannot be considered an expansion. I will elaborate :

No new weapons for any classes. There is an unlock of Existing weapons, but there was no new asset added, nothing beyond ticking a box to allow weapon usage.

No new Elite Spec, we knew that, but it still bites, as currently no class had a significant gameplay change.

No new mount. The skyscale is an existing mount, though it has genuinely been improved, artificial limitations initially set when it was first created were simply loosened. The only new element added was the Fireball which is a notable feature.

3 maps, of which 1 reuses existing assets entirely. 1 map is still missing and will be delivered piece meal

Relic system is literally Rune system being tweaked and split. It's an existing system. It's only saving grace is that it technically isn't part of the expansion, but the expansion supposedly heavily leans into it, which is a gray area at best. 40 core relics, 12 new effects, out of 100 existing rune effects, of which it was not confirmed that they'd add all the missing effects on a 1 to 1 basis.

So, what did this expansion currently add  ? 

A new daily system replacement with the Wizard's Vault, which is significantly different enough to count, despite it's pitfalls. It is also not specific to the expansion and is in fact released to every player, with it benefitting expansion holders more. So, in the same way as the relics, calling it an expansion feature is debatable and at best, a gray area.

3 new maps, which no matter how they're decorated are still 3 new areas

2 armor sets

A couple of masteries.

A storyline.

 

Now if we sum it up, this expansion brings paying players : A story, 3 new maps, one of which reuses assets heavily, 2 armors, some masteries. None of these Needed to be in an expansion and could have been released as a living story episode with more focus to each of it's parts. I do however believe that calling it a Living Story episode would have raised the issue of it being paid for on release, as opposed to previous Living Story episodes. In this particular case though, the content released is simply not expansion worthy.

Edited August 26, 2023 by Naxos.2503

[Teknomancer.4895]

@Stelawrat.6589  I'm pretty sure the HoM Rewards are still earn-able.

Check what you already have here:  https://hom.guildwars2.com/en/#page=welcome

[Xelqypla.6817]

1 hour ago, Naxos.2503 said:

Other games expansions certainly do -not- work like this. An expansion is a self contained content patch. It's released -in full-, from the moment it is paid for. This is not it. Everyone paid full price for 1/4 of an expansion, and the expectations that we'll get the rest of the content later.

Yes they do. You get the Expansion patch, then the content patches afterward that build upon the expansion.

When WoW releases an Expansion, you get a large amount of content. However, it's never ALL of the content. Future patches add more content that can only be accessed by the people who bought the expansion. Usually a Raid or two, maybe a dungeon, a new area filled with Dailies. It's all tied into the story they tell over the length of the expansion until they launch the next one.

[Kranlor Greyhelm.8417]

10 minutes ago, Xelqypla.6817 said:

Yes they do. You get the Expansion patch, then the content patches afterward that build upon the expansion.

When WoW releases an Expansion, you get a large amount of content. However, it's never ALL of the content. Future patches add more content that can only be accessed by the people who bought the expansion. Usually a Raid or two, maybe a dungeon, a new area filled with Dailies. It's all tied into the story they tell over the length of the expansion until they launch the next one.

You are paying a subscription fee for the ongoing content releases. It might be part of the expansion, but you aren't covering the entire cost with what you paid for the expansion. You can't compare the WoW model with GW2.

[Teknomancer.4895]

On 8/23/2023 at 2:55 PM, Stralgarr.7561 said:

I ragequit after an hour because of how awful the Skyscale is. Literally never been more angry playing this game than I was trying to use that piece of kitten mount to do map completion on the first map.

So very much this. There have been a couple places where I said "kitten it" and got out the old reliable kangabunny, high-vaulted then jumped off and popped the glider, because the skyscale just couldn't make it. I don't need my BP to spike because of a "streamlined" process that seems to be buggy and clumsy af.

[Xelqypla.6817]

14 minutes ago, Kranlor Greyhelm.8417 said:

You are paying a subscription fee for the ongoing content releases. It might be part of the expansion, but you aren't covering the entire cost with what you paid for the expansion. You can't compare the WoW model with GW2.

Subscription fees exist regardless of whether you buy the expansion or not, making that a rather weird argument. What games does Kranlor Greyhelm decide are acceptable to compare to Guild Wars 2?

That way I don't waste my time finding arguments that are just denied through rather arbitrary reasons?

[Kranlor Greyhelm.8417]

13 minutes ago, Xelqypla.6817 said:

Subscription fees exist regardless of whether you buy the expansion or not, making that a rather weird argument. What games does Kranlor Greyhelm decide are acceptable to compare to Guild Wars 2?

That way I don't waste my time finding arguments that are just denied through rather arbitrary reasons?

Arbitrary? Okay, WoW releases an expansion. You pay for it, you get the content. 3 months later it releases a patch with more content. Talk me through how you're playing that patch without paying a subscription. I'll wait.

The expansion gets you access to the content at the time the expansion drops. To play the later content, you have to have paid for the expansion but you ALSO need to be paying the ongoing subscription. So it isn't a valid analogy.

[Dante.1508]

I logged in saw the runes and new dailies and haven't been back since.

[Xelqypla.6817]

11 minutes ago, Kranlor Greyhelm.8417 said:

Arbitrary? Okay, WoW releases an expansion. You pay for it, you get the content. 3 months later it releases a patch with more content. Talk me through how you're playing that patch without paying a subscription. I'll wait.

The expansion gets you access to the content at the time the expansion drops. To play the later content, you have to have paid for the expansion but you ALSO need to be paying the ongoing subscription. So it isn't a valid analogy.

The people who don't buy the expansion still pay $15 per month. Get no expansion content 3 months later. Tell me how the people paying the subscription without the expansion are paying for expansion content. All players pay $15 per month regardless of content drops or which expansions they have. You are ignoring this portion entirely, which is why your disagreement is arbitrary.

Again: which games am I allowed to compare to Guild Wars 2? If you give me the list, we can have a discussion that actually goes somewhere.

[Zoid.2568]

I'm enoying it moderately. It's not the best expansion, but the story was really good. Not much content, just farming Rifts for legendary gear is pretty boring.

[Stelawrat.6589]

3 hours ago, Teknomancer.4895 said:

@Stelawrat.6589  I'm pretty sure the HoM Rewards are still earn-able.

Check what you already have here:  https://hom.guildwars2.com/en/#page=welcome

Thank you Tekno! 

Yeah I figure that I can still earn HoM rewards at any time, but I've never participated in the Wayfarer's Reverie & was just wondering if there is leeway to do that, or if there is a kind of fixed path / agenda, that won't allow for straying off to earn them. 

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

Now that I've finished the mini-xpac.
Artificially pumping the gameplay time by making roadblocks that require rifts is lazy and annoying.
*spoiler* The death of a certain character is nonsense, you've no time to develop any sort of attachment, so this is just like "who cares?"  *spoiler*

On the positive side Amnytas is really pretty and R'tchikk and Glade are cool.

All in all, not that bad but by far the worst and laziest xpac to date.

Edited August 26, 2023 by Lincolnbeard.1735

[ChronoPinoyX.7923]

8 hours ago, Naxos.2503 said:

Other games expansions certainly do -not- work like this. An expansion is a self contained content patch. It's released -in full-, from the moment it is paid for. This is not it. Everyone paid full price for 1/4 of an expansion, and the expectations that we'll get the rest of the content later. Personally I did not see that mentionned anywhere when it was announced, if it was, it certainly wasn't advertised.

So that's a complete lie. Monster Hunter alone is an example of an expansion where all its contents were NOT available at the launch of its expansion. It had content drop after the release of the expansion that were already planned during development but devs didn't release straight away. And that includes explorable locations AND mechanics that could have easily been included since launch

There are plenty of other examples but no, an expansion is as the name states, it EXPANDS content but it doesn't always come with all of its intended content, similar to SoTO as of right now

[ixon.2496]

30 minutes ago, ChronoPinoyX.7923 said:

So that's a complete lie. Monster Hunter alone is an example of an expansion where all its contents were NOT available at the launch of its expansion. It had content drop after the release of the expansion that were already planned during development but devs didn't release straight away. And that includes explorable locations AND mechanics that could have easily been included since launch

There are plenty of other examples but no, an expansion is as the name states, it EXPANDS content but it doesn't always come with all of its intended content, similar to SoTO as of right now

This is by far the weakest "expansion" in guild wars 2's history. Its a huge downstep from the high bar they had set. 

EoD was a downgrade as well but it at least felt like a complete expansion, they are now releasing basically what used to be living world/icebrood saga and calling it an expansion. Its a weak effort and as soon as people finish with what new toys we have to play with they'll realise it too.

Edited August 26, 2023 by ixon.2496

[ChronoPinoyX.7923]

2 minutes ago, ixon.2496 said:

This is by far the weakest "expansion" in guild wars 2's history. Its a huge downstep from the high bar they had set. 

EoD was a downgrade as well but it at least felt like a complete expansion, they are now releasing basically what used to be living world/icebrood saga and calling it an expansion. Its a weak effort and as soon as people finish with what new toys we have to play with they'll realise it too.

How people see this expansion is their personal opinion. My statement is aimed at the fact that people expect an expansion to be 'complete/in full' when modern games show that expansions are never released with full content available from the get go

As much as we'd all like to have games where all content is available in full, most game devs keep content then release them after a certain date to keep their playerbase interested, especially when it comes to MMOs and other multiplayer online games

[ixon.2496]

1 minute ago, ChronoPinoyX.7923 said:

How people see this expansion is their personal opinion. My statement is aimed at the fact that people expect an expansion to be 'complete/in full' when modern games show that expansions are never released with full content available from the get go

As much as we'd all like to have games where all content is available in full, most game devs keep content then release them after a certain date to keep their playerbase interested, especially when it comes to MMOs and other multiplayer online games

Anet are the ones playing semantics with what they decide to call an expansion. Compared to their previous releases its obvious where this lies in relation to their previous content. 

We had expansions, fully released, way more content, and what we are getting now sprinkled in between. 

 

Now they have redefined what they're willing to call an expansion. 

[Ashen.2907]

Just now, ixon.2496 said:

Anet are the ones playing semantics with what they decide to call an expansion. Compared to their previous releases its obvious where this lies in relation to their previous content. 

We had expansions, fully released, way more content, and what we are getting now sprinkled in between. 

 

Now they have redefined what they're willing to call an expansion. 

And they told us up front, before people could spend money on it, that SOTO would be smaller, and with fewer new features, than what came before it. I am as critical of the game as the next guy, and moreso than many, but announcing a new product, announcing that it will be smaller than previous products, and charging less than previous products is fine. Then it is up to the consumer to decide if they want to buy the new product.

[ChronoPinoyX.7923]

11 minutes ago, ixon.2496 said:

Anet are the ones playing semantics with what they decide to call an expansion. Compared to their previous releases its obvious where this lies in relation to their previous content. 

We had expansions, fully released, way more content, and what we are getting now sprinkled in between. 

 

Now they have redefined what they're willing to call an expansion. 

That's less ANet more shift in the current gaming space. Many games in the past had full content available on release of their expansions (Neverwinter Nights being an example of expansions released in full) however because of large AAA companies making horrendous choices to leech money off their playerbase, other game companies followed suit making it terrible for everyone as many game devs chose to follow in terrible practices. That's why Baldur's Gate 3, Elden Ring and Tears of the Kingdom are praised highly, because they returned to the root of gaming development where all content is available from the get go

ANet got caught in that terrible practice of witholding content to keep players returning but in this case because NCSoft are such terrible publishers, ANet hasn't got much of a choice when their publishers pull these terrible practices

Edited August 26, 2023 by ChronoPinoyX.7923

[ixon.2496]

47 minutes ago, Ashen.2907 said:

And they told us up front, before people could spend money on it, that SOTO would be smaller, and with fewer new features, than what came before it. I am as critical of the game as the next guy, and moreso than many, but announcing a new product, announcing that it will be smaller than previous products, and charging less than previous products is fine. Then it is up to the consumer to decide if they want to buy the new product.

It doesn't bode well for the future of the game, all the scaling back on the level of content released.

Edited August 26, 2023 by ixon.2496
Clarification

[oCynder.5136]

They could have done better if they properly tested it. They did reuse assets and just retextured them and call it a day. But I would look past that and see what else they offer to offset the copy/paste and re-texture things.

What my biggest issue with Anet going down this path is just they didn't need to fix what was broken. They're just re-inventing the wheel to make a system broken or something. And when they release a new system that replaces the old, it will be broken or just a complete mess. This caused a huge spike of power creep again. It was pretty close to being balanced before this patch. And this whole new system is pretty much what caused everything to either be super strong or super underwhelming. My biggest fear from this is they will nerf the weapon set that was designed for the original elite spec and make it weaker overall for the original elite spec.

Maps aside, they look pretty cool. Although I prefer Amnytas over Skywatch. Rifts are a neat thing they added but I don't feel like it was properly done. If you want to go do Rifts, you have to be there before everyone else. There will always be one person opening it and soloing it thus screwing over others. It is not a great mechanic honestly.

I still enjoy the mini-xpac even with this entire mess but it isn't by far the worst thing that has been released.

[Dante.1508]

Ah well better luck next time..

[Judge Dread.9078]

SoTo overall just feels like a very mixed bag.

[Xaxxus.6719]

IMO it feels a lot like a living world chapter more so than an expansion.

I'm glad were getting new content, but I kind of wish they would spend that time working on getting all classes/builds more level with one another.

The reason I often get burnt out of this game is not lack of things to do, but the fact that I often feel pigeonholed into playing a specific meta build/playstyle that just isn't fun to play. I am really happy there is a legendary armor set from open world content though. At least I don't have to play a meta build to do open world content.