Make OS instanced, add 2nd EB and reduce amount of tiers

[Riba.3271]

Obvious improvements that don't need much explaining:

2 Eternal Battlegrounds (most popular maps). Sides will rotate clockwise for 2nd EB and castle can be differently designed.

3 of the most popular borderlands,

1 instanced Obsidian Sanctum (Same as EotM. Right side of WvW UI) and

1 Edge of The Mists (stays the same, admittedly though in need of improvements too)

If there are more maps, you might have to reduce tiers. 5 tiers is obviously too many for EU so 4 tiers is ok. NA has less activity than EU so 3 tiers is fine.

 

Now while it might not sound like a big difference having both more players and more maps, but having choice of 5 maps means there will be almost always enemy group available for some challenge.  Biggest change will be though there being 2 of the by far most popular maps available. It is gonna be lit choosing between 2 EB commanders while also having less queues.

Edited August 30, 2023 by Riba.3271

[MysteryDude.1572]

Os instanced ? kitten no

[Zyreva.1078]

No.

[babana.7521]

No.

[Cyninja.2954]

So we add maps while the current ones are already not supported by the amount of players? 

Thus the need to reduce tiers and pair servers even more? (Which will happen eventually even without the change, we have been at this point before)

For what, so the server stacking blob guilds have more room to play?

Seems counterintuitive to the modes problems currently. 

I'll add a No.

Edited August 31, 2023 by Cyninja.2954

[Chiral.8915]

I want all maps to be replaced with EBG. 4 eternal, Eternal Battle Grounds, where eternal battles happen eternally.

[connor.2180]

Would Stonemist be the absolute treasure it is currently if there was 2 of them? I don't think so. Not sure I can get on board with this. 

[Riba.3271]

8 hours ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

So we add maps while the current ones are already not supported by the amount of players? 

EB is still very popular. Also if you spread the commanders on less servers, there will be more times when commanders are online. Also enemies will have commanders so commanders will have more action to tag up for.

Quote

Seems counterintuitive to the modes problems currently. 

But yes, mode has more pressing problems like linking system, terrible siege balance, pocket money transfers and objective camping right now. But it isn't like you can put everything in a massive thread then expect people to read it.

Edited August 31, 2023 by Riba.3271

[Ronin.4501]

It honestly doesn't matter if this were something a majority of the players wanted or not. Anet seems to have closed the book on making any major revisions or updates to WvW moving forward. I think most of us have given up on Alliances at this point and this point play the gamemode with a 'You get what you get' mentality.

[XenesisII.1540]

1 hour ago, Riba.3271 said:

Also enemies will have commanders so commanders will have more action to tag up for.

There would be more commanders if there wasn't a meta that was super forced and the high chance of eventually running into the raid group that will one push you and scatter everyone off tag, off map, and even off game. You either run around in a meta blobs taking over the whole map, run around in a dead map avoiding everyone, or run around as a tagless gank cloud. So many times I've seen tags go up, get run over by a meta blob, and then tag disappears. 😏🤷‍♂️

[TheGrimm.5624]

On 8/30/2023 at 4:39 PM, Riba.3271 said:

If there are more maps, you might have to reduce tiers. 5 tiers is obviously too many for EU so 4 tiers is ok. NA has less activity than EU so 3 tiers is fine.

As said in the past NA for myself, are there queues in T5 EU outside of reset? How are the queues in T4 EU? If anyone knows of a website that shows this in real and historical time that would be interesting. Personally I still see this an issue if we get to the WR project since number of maps might be impactful on the new World size if they aren't factoring in time zone in the attributes they assign to players. Could see some time zones, normal primetimes for all regions as an example,  over stacked without considering time zone so the conversation of more than 4 maps might be an option versus just having more tiers that leave some time zones void of players for some sides.

[Riba.3271]

26 minutes ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

As said in the past NA for myself, are there queues in T5 EU outside of reset? How are the queues in T4 EU?

T5 Eu typically has 2 unlinked servers, sometimes 3, with outnumbered buffs on all maps.

T4 is much more alive in that they might get a q on 1 map if their most popular commander tags up.

[Justine.6351]

Add instanced borderlands where instead of fighting players we fight npc roamers and zergs.

[zinkz.7045]

On 9/1/2023 at 7:15 PM, TheGrimm.5624 said:

As said in the past NA for myself, are there queues in T5 EU outside of reset?

Yes, for example on FSP which has been T5 for a while, it is not uncommon to have 2 maps queued at primetime, you still get things like a 30+ man queue to a map that barely moves. And that is with a server that has not had a link for some time and only has a handful of guilds, most of which are on the small size.

You even get a queued map at 10 am on a weekday because there is some terrible guild (plus a bunch of pugs that join Discord with them) that PvDoor the maps most mornings.

The main thing about T5 on EU is how dead it can be much of the rest of the time or how often one server has a group going but the others don't.

 

Edited September 4, 2023 by zinkz.7045

[MedievalThings.5417]

7 hours ago, zinkz.7045 said:

the rest of the time or how often one server has a group going but the others don't.

 

This mostly describes NA.  Not because there aren't people, but because all guilds have stacked and transferred (and continue to do so) to make sure that no other giant comped boonblob plays during their primary playtime.  If by chance, another comped boonblob plays when they do, they will ktrain opposite maps or eventually one will transfer to another tier where they can be alone, fighting doors and 10 guys.

[Twilightzone.7452]

ebg is just an afk map so adding a second one wont help

[Riba.3271]

On 9/4/2023 at 8:57 PM, Twilightzone.7452 said:

ebg is just an afk map so adding a second one wont help

People afk on EB because it is most likely map to have queue.
2nd one means that afks will be reduced because queues will be smaller, and they will be split in half between 2 EBs. So if there are 40 afks out of 80 on full map now, there will be around 20 if 2nd EB is added.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

OS shouldn't be instanced, but it definitely needs reworked so you don't lose participation in there.

It's not even because of the one or two trolls you might encounter every other month, it's the JP is so long you lose most of your participation even if you are quick about it--and now the JP can be somewhat mandatory depending on your Wizard acheives.  

No one needs two EBGs--it never has a queue when I'm on (T1 NA from 11PM EST - 5 AM EST); and don't care about 'off hours' there should be no off hours or no use in adding a second EBG map because it'll just be empty.

Edited September 6, 2023 by Gotejjeken.1267

[Venport.3925]

Honestly if you read into what OP is saying; instanced OS like eotm would be like you play OS with teams from all servers, so it would maybe actually help it be a little more lively if that was something anet wanted to encourage

[Pipps.6451]

yes fully agree

[Riba.3271]

On 9/7/2023 at 1:31 AM, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

It's not even because of the one or two trolls you might encounter every other month, it's the JP is so long you lose most of your participation even if you are quick about it--and now the JP can be somewhat mandatory depending on your Wizard acheives.  

Yes, it is dead. That is why you can do your jumping puzzle freely.

7 hours ago, Venport.3925 said:

Honestly if you read into what OP is saying; instanced OS like eotm would be like you play OS with teams from all servers, so it would maybe actually help it be a little more lively if that was something anet wanted to encourage

Indeed, instanced OS would improve it for blobbers, guilds, duelers, gankers. Only jumping puzzle weekly doers would be troubled by this, but I am guessing part of taking WvW dailies should be willing to fight.

Same applies to EB, it has over 2 times more activity than any borderland, and 3 times more than desert map. So having more of these maps, and enough enemies to face in each, would obviously improve WvW.

Edited September 9, 2023 by Riba.3271

[Gotejjeken.1267]

7 hours ago, Riba.3271 said:

Yes, it is dead. That is why you can do your jumping puzzle freely.

I mean, I could do it freely anyway 😂.

Still don't know why it has to be instanced--if you want to fight so bad in there, put objectives in it.  

[Riba.3271]

4 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

11 hours ago, Riba.3271 said:

Yes, it is dead. That is why you can do your jumping puzzle freely.

I mean, I could do it freely anyway 😂.

Still don't know why it has to be instanced--if you want to fight so bad in there, put objectives in it.  

Because, while you might not do following activities, it will help some people to have more enemies:

1. Looking for duels in off-hours. Especially in lower tier servers it can be hard to find anyone on regular WvW map.
2. Arrange fights with a player or a guild on enemy server. While EotM arena exists, the run there is very long. And the arena might be already taken.
3. Do BvB. EotM is garbage for BvB. If you can open tag any hour, and if there are no enemies on regular maps, you could arrange fights with any opposite colour server
4. Do jumping puzzle and see enemies. Truly jumping puzzle benefitting PvP gamemode.
5. Want a fair stable balance. Nearby camp or castle changing sides during fights in normal WvW means 800 stat swings (~30% damage). Maybe you just find to find out who is best player or guild.

 Obsidian Sanctum should be a choice for fights. GW2 with its hundreds of jumping puzzles isn't same as GW2 with 1 jumping puzzle that you can do over and over. Same is true regarding fights, instanced OS will be in many ways superior to normal WvW map since it will offer more potential enemies.

Edited September 10, 2023 by Riba.3271

[dead.7638]

I’m in favor to see the game mode burn.   Let’s just have 5 OS maps.   Nerf every class but ranger in the process.   Finally buff ranger, it’s not exactly god mode yet, but it’s getting up there.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

57 minutes ago, Riba.3271 said:

Because, while you might not do following activities, it will help some people to have more enemies:

1. Looking for duels in off-hours. Especially in lower tier servers it can be hard to find anyone on regular WvW map.
2. Arrange fights with a player or a guild on enemy server. While EotM arena exists, the run there is very long. And the arena might be already taken.
3. Do BvB. EotM is garbage for BvB. If you can open tag any hour, and if there are no enemies on regular maps, you could arrange fights with any opposite colour server
4. Do jumping puzzle and see enemies. Truly jumping puzzle benefitting PvP gamemode.
5. Want a fair stable balance. Nearby camp or castle changing sides during fights in normal WvW means 800 stat swings (~30% damage). Maybe you just find to find out who is best player or guild.

 Obsidian Sanctum should be a choice for fights. GW2 with its hundreds of jumping puzzles isn't same as GW2 with 1 jumping puzzle that you can do over and over. Same is true regarding fights, instanced OS will be in many ways superior to normal WvW map since it will offer more potential enemies.

Sounds too niche, especially if you aren't getting pips or anything.  

My vote is getting rid of Obsidian Sanctum, or make it instanced like you want so duelers can go whack sticks in there and rework EotM into a regular BL.  As EoTM is the largest waste of dev time and resources I think I've seen--the artist budget alone for something they left practically unused is absurd.

If EoTM is regular BL then you move the JP to in there, or make another one for DBL.  Ruby Sanctum or whatever.

Otherwise, if you want dueling or controlled fights, then sPvP lobby is the way.  Otherwise, people just beating each other up under PvE stats and I never did understand the point of this--especially when it doesn't contribute anything to WvW itself.