Ritualist, Dervish, Paragon, Monk, Tengu and more.....

[Dethbott.4731]

Ritualist, Dervish etc....We know that arena.net will never ever make these professions and races accessible because it would be just nightmare to the arena.net staff and the players/guildies (I know its not word just having fun) will either like it or hate it.  I have dumb idea of how to just resolve it.  Create a new fractal to play these these niche professions, having players going back in time on some mission or instead of playing the professions players just team up with npcs'   who each represent those professions.   As for the races like tengu and largos create strike missions or fractals were you either play as that race as a disguise or team up with them.

I know everyone get sick of this topic because its just wishful thinking and its....just dumb however it popped my head because i was bored and thought it a idea (not good one but an idea). 

[Dethbott.4731]

Anyone who respond this idea like or hate it's just fine, the reason I wanted to get this idea out because this profession are and will always be just niche professions that cannot diverse as the nine professions we already, arena.net knows it and the players know it however I thought it be fun to add as just small fun missions to play and nostalgia to gw1 instead of having as new/added profession to gw2.  The races will never added due to it conflict with the storyline and other reasons.  The way guild wars 2 is set up it would allow any new races of profession from the past to added so I just that this would be cool idea.  

Please anyone I am not bot or A.I. I had people say I am when bring this subject..geez.  I am just player/guildie. chilling and I had dumb idea and wanted express it 🙂

[phandaria.4891]

It's a good idea, playing more classes is always fun, and limiting it to certain instances would stop it being an issue for balance purposes.

If I can add on, there were already some story instances where we play as Caithe being a unique Thief class. Possible that Arenanet can add a "Sidestory" chapters with us playing as unique character/race/class with unique abilities in those specific story instances.

Also, there are already several Combat Tonics allowing you to play as other races such as Kodan. FYI.

Edited September 2, 2023 by phandaria.4891

[Dethbott.4731]

Sidestory chapters? That is a good idea.🙂

 

[Dadnir.5038]

I like it, they could even make competitive minigames with those. Speaking of... Some of us are still waiting for the polymock arena since release of the game...

[Uete.3805]

I'm unsure what Anet will do. Maybe they create an alternate route for players who'd pick newer races to get to level 80 and call it "new leveling experience". They could use the Charr rig for Tengu and the Sylvari one for Largos. They could even bring Kodan, Dwarves and freed Awakened with the Norn, Asura and Human rigs respectively. It would probably require a lot of QA though...

Regarding the professions I thought they could bring them as part of new elite specs down the road: Paragon for warrior, Monk for guardian, Summoner for Revenant, Assassin for thief, Dervish for ele, Ritualist for necro. Maybe they could create the Minstrel for the mesmer and something new for ranger and engi. But I reaaaaaaally doubt it.

[Dethbott.4731]

Uete that is a great idea for the new races and professions but I do agree with you about them not even considering adding new professions or races 😞

 

[Leo G.4501]

11 hours ago, Dethbott.4731 said:

Ritualist, Dervish etc....We know that arena.net will never ever make these professions and races accessible because it would be just nightmare to the arena.net staff and the players/guildies (I know its not word just having fun) will either like it or hate it.  I have dumb idea of how to just resolve it.  Create a new fractal to play these these niche professions, having players going back in time on some mission or instead of playing the professions players just team up with npcs'   who each represent those professions.   As for the races like tengu and largos create strike missions or fractals were you either play as that race as a disguise or team up with them.

I know everyone get sick of this topic because its just wishful thinking and its....just dumb however it popped my head because i was bored and thought it a idea (not good one but an idea). 

Kind of wish they would use racial costumes more like for the Silent surf fractal to kind of "label" certain players for certain tasks in it rather than just noticing.

[Teknomancer.4895]

They would have to create those professions anyway in order to use GW2's engine though, unless you're suggesting that the fractal would basically load an instance of GW1 and run it in a different memory space as a shell.

They'd be more likely to fold those professions into elite specs. And I don't think that's too likely.

[VocalThought.9835]

I'm sure you heard this before, but I thought GW2 did a good job incorporating the classes you mentioned into the existing professions, although not exactly. With the outfits or some armor types, you could make a character like any of the past gw1 professions, using the current professions and skills. For Paragon you could use either Warrior (Spellbreaker) or Guardian (Dragonhunter), Devish could be Elementalist or Revenant, Monk could be Guardian (Willbender) or Revenant (Vindicator), Assassin could be Theif or Revenant, and Ritualist could be Revenant or Necromancer. 

As far as races go... I'm sure they can create a tonic to allow players to play as a different race, which is fine, but I'm sure people would love to customize and play through a story mode with a starting area. They could then maybe have the race link to an area of the 5 original races after the initial tutorial. 

 

[fatihso.7258]

You are missing the point that certain professions such as revenant and firebrand are already using skills belonged to dervish, paragon and more. They are not gonna implement gw1 prof after all these years with this circumstance. Unless they find a way to cheese.. 

[Eekasqueak.7850]

Monk already got rolled into Guardian IIRC. 

[Dethbott.4731]

Thanks for all the comments, ideas, info and insight about Anet incorporating those professions in GW2! Anet is never going to do it. I should just accept it, it just a fact too much wishful thinking).  I was just curious what other players thought about it. I'm not going ask about this topic it anymore, I'll move on to something else 🙂

[draxynnic.3719]

As a few people have said: if it's going to happen, it'll happen via elite specs.

Some of the existing elite specs are very obviously homages to those professions. The most obvious are reaper being the return of Grenth dervish and Kalla is basically a ritualist legend with a charr skin (however much some people refuse to recognise it as such), but a lot of elite specialisations have very similar feels, albeit translated into GW2 mechanics, to specific styles from those GW1 professions that were left behind. However, they often have very different themes even as they bring a similar playstyle, which means they don't get recognised as such (engineer, for instance, was supposed to be the GW2 replacement for ritualist, but the combination of the tech theme and turrets having been mostly dead for years prevent it from being recognised as such).

[genjonah.1253]

No one loved the Ritualist more than I, and I miss it dearly, but it’s not gonna happen. We’ve had several opportunities, but the roles of both Ritualist and Paragon are pretty much already there, and Monk was deliberately removed so as NOT to have a reliance on a healer (I know that was more at the launch of the game, and a lot of things have changed since then, but still)

 

Guardian and Warrior pretty much fill the support heavy of Paragon depending on builds, especially Guardian. Ritualist was the super versatile profession (hence why I loved it), but Necro/scourge and Revenant/renegade elite specs pretty much hit all of them (I’d argue even some of the Ele ones do, too). And thief is pretty much assassin already, builds based on both power and condi. The only one that I really don’t think has a true parallel is Dervish. Yeah, there’s the human racial skills, but that’s only one aspect of the Derv, and frankly not a very good transfer outside of aesthetics. Maybe Reaper? Vindicator? But even those are definitely not 1:1 comparisons 

[draxynnic.3719]

12 hours ago, genjonah.1253 said:

The only one that I really don’t think has a true parallel is Dervish. Yeah, there’s the human racial skills, but that’s only one aspect of the Derv, and frankly not a very good transfer outside of aesthetics. Maybe Reaper? Vindicator? But even those are definitely not 1:1 comparisons 

It's Revenant. Dervish mechanics on the whole didn't fit well into GW2 mechanics, but there were a lot of discussions before the revenant was announced of making a dervish playstyle but tapping into the unused ritualist fluff (since engineer was supposed to be the ritualist replacement playstyle-wise... until they ruined turrets, anyway) so that instead of human-associated gods, they'd draw power from channeling spirits through their own bodies (as opposed to ritualists binding weaker spirits to objects and locations) - revenant shows some clear signs of convergent evolution towards those ideas. Legends have replaced avatars (noticed how Amala kinda feels like a revenant with five legends to cycle through?), with Mallyx even having an avatar-like state; weapons like mace and greatsword have a significant close-range AoE focus, as do legends like Mallyx, Jalis, and Archemorus; Shiro has the lifesteal theme; Jalis has the earth prayers damage reduction theme; and Glint's thing with facets is essentially as close as GW2 mechanics can get to the dervish's signature "consume enchantments to fuel powerful attacks" approach.

Meanwhile, some aspects are present in other professions - Reaper is a pretty obvious homage to Grenth dervishes attached to necromancer for the full death theme, the "melee elementalist" style that dervish had is seen in, well, melee elementalists, especially now with the aura consume mechanic, guardian generally has a lot of close-range AoE focus, and possibly more that have slipped my mind.

[Panda.1967]

I know at launch Arenanet had stated a few times that the Guardian is a blending of Monk, Paragon, and Ritualist into one new profession. Lorewise Guardians were actually supposed to be exactly that… the idea didn't sit very well with Ritualist mains and to a lesser extend Paragon mains… Monk mains accepted it fully, and out of the three it felt more like a monk then anything.

Then when they added the Revenant they thought it would satisfy Ritualist and Dervish mains… it appeased neither and served only to tick off disgruntled Ritualist mains even more…
 

That said… Ritualist and Paragon could actually both be easily added as elite specs for Guardian and Warrior respectively… would honestly prefer to see them as full fledged professions, personally… but a Ritualist elite spec for Guardian and a Paragon elite spec for Warrior could 100% be done.

Ritualist espec for Guardian would replace virtues with ashes and gain spirits as their new skill type. Ashes are provide the Ritualist their bonuses passively, but when activated they grant the benefit to your allies for a duration or until you choose to “drop” the ashes causing an immediate AoE effect and putting the passive on CD. Spirits are self explanatory… summon a spirit that attacks or hinders enemies or provides benefits to allies. Weapon might be a problem, since Guardian already has all 3 caster weapons and all mainhands now with their upcomming pistols… 

Paragon espec for Warrior would gain access to Chants, are similar to shouts except they have longer durations and you can only maintain one at a time. Adrenaline would be replaced with 4 new skills called Echos. The first one extends your active Chant, the next 2 apply an effect that refreshes when your Chant ends while the 4th immediately ends your active Chants to apply a powerful effect. Adrenaline would be replaced with a way a new resource that is used to maintain your Chants. I would say Staff should be the espec weapon, but SoO is giving them that later… so… yeah…

 

Dervish could probably be worked in as an elite spec too… maybe for Ranger… but its biggest issue is that a large part of the class identity is tied to its weapon, the Scythe… currently Scythes in GW2 only exist as skins for Staves, and Ranger already has Staff through the Druid espec… the alternative would be Thief but thief has the same issue due to Daredevil Staff, however thief could still be a better fit thanks to Weaponmaster Training, with something like Greatsword as the espec weapon. Infact, Thief might be the best fit all around with the Steal mechanic reworked into Steal Enchantments allowing the Dervish to steal boons from enemies. New class skill would be Enchantments, which function similarly to Signets except stronger and that they must be activated first to gain their passive benefit for a limited duration and can still be ended early to apply their secondary effects. Alternatively instead of Enchantments they could gain Aspects allowing them take on the form of an aspect of one of the gods to gain access to powerful weapon skills and a passive effect for a limited duration.

 

as for Tengu… there has been a spot on the map perfectly sized for a town and a starting zone since day 1 that we know is occupied by Tengu…  we even saw Tengu customizations and lore expanded upon in EoD… it makes sense that they could and may even still one day be a playable race… the only real problem that exists is the logistics of recording all new voice lines for all past content with a new pair of voice actors for the Tengu PC… armor models are actually the least problematic despite what a lot of people think. Given the sheer number of body shapes already in use, it stands to reason they have a fairly automated system for fitting armors to different bodies.

 

honesly the OPs idea is just outright horrible. Temporary access to a character who is that race and/or class will NEVER satisfy anyone… at best it just annoys people, at worst it will serve as fuel to push for the real thing even harder.

Edited September 14, 2023 by Panda.1967

[draxynnic.3719]

Personally, I tend to think that ritualist would probably work best as an elite specialisation for necromancer, since it's already picked up spirit magic themes that GW1 necromancer didn't have. I have a suspicion that some of the ritualist fans on the forum won't ever be satisfied with anything short of a full new profession, though.

For Dervish, there's a strong degree of 'what kind of dervish do you mean?' Individual dervish builds could have very different flavours to them, but if you remove the avatars and distill dervish down to its core themes, it's basically a melee elementalist. Wind Prayers are a mix of air and water themes, Mysticism has a bit of fire, and Earth Prayers is obvious. So I'd probably consider the purest translation of the core essence of dervish to be a melee elementalist elite specialisation where the utility skills have flipover mechanics for that 'activate an enchantment and then convert it' feel. Probably using a greatsword, since GW2 greatsword often focuses on cleaving attacks and can therefore be considered to be a spiritual successor to scythe.

Thing is, this is getting fairly close to being Jalis/Glint herald with greatsword. And the last thing ele needs right now is another elite specialisation that was designed for melee.

Edited September 15, 2023 by draxynnic.3719

[Burnfall.9573]

On 9/2/2023 at 10:18 AM, Dethbott.4731 said:

Ritualist, Dervish etc....We know that arena.net will never ever make these professions and races accessible because it would be just nightmare to the arena.net staff and the players/guildies (I know its not word just having fun) will either like it or hate it.  I have dumb idea of how to just resolve it.  Create a new fractal to play these these niche professions, having players going back in time on some mission or instead of playing the professions players just team up with npcs'   who each represent those professions.   As for the races like tengu and largos create strike missions or fractals were you either play as that race as a disguise or team up with them.

I know everyone get sick of this topic because its just wishful thinking and its....just dumb however it popped my head because i was bored and thought it a idea (not good one but an idea). 

~~My Belove Guild Wars~~

"Unless you heal the root of a problem, the pain will not go away. You can hide from it, but the problem stays until you dig deep.”

[Cuks.8241]

On 9/2/2023 at 4:18 PM, Dethbott.4731 said:

Ritualist, Dervish etc....We know that arena.net will never ever make these professions and races accessible because it would be just nightmare to the arena.net staff and the players/guildies (I know its not word just having fun) will either like it or hate it. 

I really dont understand why this would be such a nightmare. I've played many mmorpgs from the biggest ones and almost indie ones and they managed to introduce new classes and races into the game in many different original ways that didnt disturb the game (both lore wise and system wise). 

Anet is running one of the most successful mmorpgs on the market.  It is completely fine to hold them by the standards that other game developers are running their games. I havent really seen a decent argument against introducing a new race in the game. Yeah they would probably need to do a fresh new player starting exeprience for the race. So what? I would say its even a good opportunity to come up with something new and better.

[Fueki.4753]

2 hours ago, Cuks.8241 said:

Yeah they would probably need to do a fresh new player starting exeprience for the race. So what?

This costs more money than they are likely willing to spend on this.

And then we also don't know how it'll interact with the Personal Story. Every current race has a "mentor" in Edge of Destiny, new races (unless we get literal wolves as a race) don't have that. We don't even know, if Arenanet still has developers that know how to deal with the spaghetti code of the original story parts.

We also don't know, if Arenanet even wants more playable races.

[draxynnic.3719]

There is a part of me wondering if they have a better opportunity to do it now. The whole 'wayfinder' thing feels like they might be trying to get players used to being called things other than 'Commander', and ArenaNet might decide at some point that people being able to make characters that didn't go through the elder dragon story is a good thing. It might mean that a few lines need to be changed here and there, but it's probably less daunting than trying to introduce a new character origin in End of Dragons would have been, and it would be a means of making it more practical for a new player to jump in directly into a new expansion without feeling like they have a decade-spanning character background they've skipped.

It's still not something I'd expect, but I could see the switch to more self-contained stories making it far more practical to introduce player characters who aren't The Champion Of Aurene.

[Fueki.4753]

50 minutes ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

It might mean that a few lines need to be changed here and there

If they don't even want have multiple lines to differentiate between male and female player characters, I doubt they'd want to implement multiple lines depending on a character's story.

That aside, they already have ignored story progress in the past, when it comes to later content. Characters who haven't done the personal story still get called Commander in said later content. I don't see why they'd differentiate based on story in the future.

Edited September 16, 2023 by Fueki.4753

[draxynnic.3719]

19 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

If they don't even want have multiple lines to differentiate between male and female player characters, I doubt they'd want to implement multiple lines depending on a character's story.

That aside, they already have ignored story progress in the past, when it comes to later content. Characters who haven't done the personal story still get called Commander in said later content. I don't see why they'd differentiate based on story in the future.

That's because they assume that the character has been through the entire story even if the player hasn't. A new origin, however, wouldn't have that assumption.

They've differentiated lines and occasionally even events based on race before, so there is precedent. 

It still might be an investment they'd prefer not to make, especially since it might make things awkward if they did want to return to dragon stuff later, however briefly. But if it was something they were interested in doing, it's probably better to do it around now than at almost any point since GW2's release.

[Cuks.8241]

3 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

This costs more money than they are likely willing to spend on this.

And then we also don't know how it'll interact with the Personal Story. Every current race has a "mentor" in Edge of Destiny, new races (unless we get literal wolves as a race) don't have that. We don't even know, if Arenanet still has developers that know how to deal with the spaghetti code of the original story parts.

We also don't know, if Arenanet even wants more playable races.

Usually new races and classes are introduced in the current game time. Your new tengu hatchling doesnt need to have anything with Destiny's Edge or even know dragons existed. DKs from wow are a good example on how to introduce something new into game that fits good both lore wise and system wise and completely bypass old systems.

If they dont have devs that are able to tackle it, they should get them. They are not an indie company with 5 employees. 

There is 0 reasons to make excuses for them in advance.