Secrets of the Obscure Balance Follow-Ups

[Cal Cohen.2358]

Hi everyone,

 

Just a heads up that our next round of balance adjustments will be coming on September 26. This will include changes to address some overperforming builds in PvE (on top of a few small adjustments going out in tomorrow’s build to address some outliers in competitive modes). We’ll continue to keep a close eye on things after that update and may make additional tuning adjustments as needed outside of our regular balance cycle.

 

Thanks,

Cal “cmc” Cohen

Skills and Balance Lead

[MuscleBobBuffPants.1406]

No more balance patch previews?

[Apfelkuchen.7143]

Is this going to be a more comprehensive adjustment, or just the obvious scourge/spectre culprits?

[Tanek.5983]

With the expansion of elite spec weapons to all specs, I just have fingers crossed that balance can be untangled without negatively affecting the builds we already had.

[Evenaardez.7913]

Secrets of the Obscure balance…

[DragonNero.4259]

22 minutes ago, Nephalem.8921 said:

Another 2 weeks of scourge? Can you just delete that garbage at this point? Actually just delete necro as a whole.

Ok but every class is getting deleted and everyone has to start a new toon lvl 1 and theres no more classes everyone can use whatever skill they want.

[Jokuc.3478]

"Some overperforming builds"

Almost every build is overperforming, why is 45k dps the new normal? What happened to the idea of an mmo where old content stays relevant? How are players supposed to feel like bosses are relevant when they die in a couple of seconds due to powercreep? 

anyway, Scourge, Specter and Herald are very dominant atm so I hope to see adjustments to these at least. Well honestly virtuoso too, it has been busted for a long time.

Edited September 11, 2023 by Jokuc.3478

[DCBeer.4936]

Benchmark Brawl is going to be a putrid showing on this current patch. Good riddance.

Edited September 11, 2023 by DCBeer.4936

[Geronmy.3298]

1 hour ago, MuscleBobBuffPants.1406 said:

No more balance patch previews?

Last time they got too much backlash before releasing anything.

This time they want the backlash after the release.

And now players can't say ''We told you this would happen''.

 

Mix Firage please.

[Flapjackson.1596]

1 hour ago, Cal Cohen.2358 said:

Just a heads up that our next round of balance adjustments will be coming on September 26. This will include changes to address some overperforming builds in PvE (on top of a few small adjustments going out in tomorrow’s build to address some outliers in competitive modes). We’ll continue to keep a close eye on things after that update and may make additional tuning adjustments as needed outside of our regular balance cycle.

By overperforming builds, do you mean virtually every DPS build or do we have a concept of what an "acceptable" DPS benchmark is? Is Scourge overperforming? Is every DPS build overperforming? Is it overperforming when boon builds pull over 35k? What do you actually want here Anet?

[Machineuzi.5604]

2 more weeks of abusing scourge 😍

[Kain Francois.4328]

Sounds understandable. Thanks for the heads up!

Predictions:

- Ranger 1h Sword #2 and #3 Nerfs.

- Elementalist Warhorn Nerfs

- Rev GS Nerfs (though I would lament this one...)

- Pistol Scourge Nerfs

I also predict that the way some weapon damage will be controlled is by tying a damage modifier to their respective elite specs.

All that I ask is that if we're about to face a bunch of nerfs, that we get some fun new toys as a tradeoff. There are a lot of elite spec weapons that don't work well outside their original elite spec, and it would be fun to see new synergies. (Eg. Berserker's Torch having some kind of role on Spellbreaker and Bladesworn.)

 

 

Edited September 12, 2023 by Kain Francois.4328

[Machineuzi.5604]

Dont nerf rev gs lol just dont make Elevated Compassion concentration bonus so cracked. Pure power dps rev is barely relevant

Edited September 12, 2023 by Machineuzi.5604

[Nephalem.8921]

1 minute ago, Geronmy.3298 said:

Last time they got too much backlash before releasing anything.

This time they want the backlash after the release.

And now players can't say ''We told you this would happen''.

 

Mix Firage please.

Mi.. what? Is that a new spec added recently? Has to be the best stealth profession ever. So good nobody can see it. Completely invisible.

They have to somehow address ele using sword/wh on every spec too. Before soto we had 3-4 different playstyles. Now it feels like one with different passives. 

[Kain Francois.4328]

21 minutes ago, Geronmy.3298 said:

Last time they got too much backlash before releasing anything.

This time they want the backlash after the release.

And now players can't say ''We told you this would happen''.

 

Mix Firage please.

I would not be surprised if this is the case. Unfortunately there are some members of the community who have a very smug, arrogant "I know better than you" attitude, and refused to accept ArenaNet's vision when it came to balance.

There are some changes ArenaNet may have, in the past, wanted to get feedback on, without the schedule to change an incoming skill update. Maybe they even disagreed with the community about the nuances of an update, since the members of the community cannot see the bigger picture that ArenaNet sees with future upcoming changes. (That isn't to imply anet hasn't messed up balance patches before. But rather to state the community does not always know best, and popular ideas are not always correct.)

Every time ArenaNet has done previews in the past, the community just could not get off their high horse. What's worse, some members would even attempt to create conspiracy theories and escalations.

So now we don't get previews anymore. Deal with it.

I hope Darens features this thread on his new youtube series.

Edited September 12, 2023 by Kain Francois.4328

[Geronmy.3298]

14 minutes ago, Nephalem.8921 said:

Mi.. what? Is that a new spec added recently? Has to be the best stealth profession ever. So good nobody can see it. Completely invisible.

They have to somehow address ele using sword/wh on every spec too. Before soto we had 3-4 different playstyles. Now it feels like one with different passives. 

Wordplay on Fix Mirage.

[Geronmy.3298]

1 minute ago, Kain Francois.4328 said:

I would not be surprised if this is the case. Unfortunately there are some members of the community who have a very smug, arrogant "I know better than you" attitude, and refused to accept ArenaNet's vision when it came to balance.

There are some changes ArenaNet may have, in the past, wanted to get feedback on, without the schedule to change an incoming skill update. Maybe they even disagreed with the community about the nuances of an update, since the members of the community cannot see the bigger picture that ArenaNet sees. (That isn't to imply anet hasn't messed up balance patches before. But rather to state the community does not always know best, and popular ideas are not always correct.)

Every time ArenaNet has done previews in the past, the community just could not get off their high horse. What's worse, some members would even attempt to create conspiracy theories about individual developers, and harassed them.

So now we don't get previews anymore. Deal with it.

I hope Darens features this thread on his new youtube series.

True. I can understand not liking the state of balance and expressing your opinions on sites were they are permitted.

I will never understand why would someone harass a dev over it.

[erapago.4387]

Keepin' in real secret and obscure. I like the thematic approach to comms.

[bruakumfd.4817]

10 minutes ago, Kain Francois.4328 said:

I would not be surprised if this is the case. Unfortunately there are some members of the community who have a very smug, arrogant "I know better than you" attitude, and refused to accept ArenaNet's vision when it came to balance.

There are some changes ArenaNet may have, in the past, wanted to get feedback on, without the schedule to change an incoming skill update. Maybe they even disagreed with the community about the nuances of an update, since the members of the community cannot see the bigger picture that ArenaNet sees with future upcoming changes. (That isn't to imply anet hasn't messed up balance patches before. But rather to state the community does not always know best, and popular ideas are not always correct.)

Every time ArenaNet has done previews in the past, the community just could not get off their high horse. What's worse, some members would even attempt to create conspiracy theories and escalations.

So now we don't get previews anymore. Deal with it.

I hope Darens features this thread on his new youtube series.

Maybe because it's because I strive to be mature; I truly don't understand how you make good points just to end with 'Deal with it'. Bonus points since I've seen a couple of tear down Scourge before the June 27th preview even came out.

[FreshF.5793]

 

2 hours ago, Cal Cohen.2358 said:

Just a heads up that our next round of balance adjustments will be coming on September 26.

Please keep this in mind ANet:

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/137418-reduce-cooldown-on-left-over-elixir-skills-eg-toss-elixir-r/#comment-1989656

[Mike.7983]

Crossing fingers mesmer doesnt get nerfbat again, same time happy with my boon herald but expecting nerf for no reason while ranger/ele/necro can pull 45-49k.

[MuscleBobBuffPants.1406]

1 hour ago, Flapjackson.1596 said:

By overperforming builds, do you mean virtually every DPS build or do we have a concept of what an "acceptable" DPS benchmark is? Is Scourge overperforming? Is every DPS build overperforming? Is it overperforming when boon builds pull over 35k? What do you actually want here Anet?

This is precisely why they need an update to their balance design philosophy post from over a year ago.

[Brandolf.6048]

TIL that ANet actually has a Balance Lead? I thought it was urban legend like a Director of Economy. 

[Obtena.7952]

36 minutes ago, MuscleBobBuffPants.1406 said:

This is precisely why they need an update to their balance design philosophy post from over a year ago.

That's awfully assumptive. What leads you to the conclusion that Anet is even balancing according to how some players regard balance in the first place? The idea of an 'acceptable' benchmark doesn't even make sense to me; what makes something popular in the eyes of the community is more than just it's DPS threshold. The idea Anet is focused on some DPS threshold to conduct their balancing is simplistic and ignoring the complex nature of what builds are favoured in the game. 

If what I'm saying isn't compelling to you, simply regard the situation prior to the release of SoTo. That's probably as good a balance situation as we will EVER see, and it's definitely based on the design philosophy. 

Edited September 12, 2023 by Obtena.7952

[Matoro.9708]

Oh thank god. I've been praying that someone will nerf the overperforming turrets build. I am beside myself!