Gw 2 walking away from Hardcore content ,But this game have content to become a good casual game?

[Carnage.6751]

As you see since 2015 A-net keep switching roads for appeal to players.İn HoT they focused on Raids and PvP and people who raised as casual playersin base game  refused to play this modes or create their own community and become hardcore players.And after PoF raids are failed and PvP e-sport scene are dead this contents thrown to backburner.Now A-net enter to route of being "casual mmorpg".

But there is a issue.This game have variety of content for serve casual players? Fmo No.I've played many mmorpg since early 2000 and many dead mmorpgs had good ideas for make a good mmorpg and GW2 content structure provides barebones of casual content.

When it comes to casual content we have metas ,Open world Pve content for shut your brain off and click to keys till enemy dies.And after a couple of  fights game  becomes a repetitive material grind.

This game needs to adapt "Sandbox mmorpg" system for provide variety of contents for appeal casual players.Examples ;

-Housing must come to game.I don't understand when a-net can bring housing to game and sell furnitures and pets for house and they still refusing is mindboggling.Just check of Eso or New World housing.People putting effort for making furnitures ,finding trophies and decorate their home.

-Deeper crafting systems:Definitely we need more crafting branches.I think Herbalism,Furniture making, Archeology,Agriculture vs.

-Farming: With housing if they add farming system to game they bring many survival game and sandbox rpg lovers to this game.Like imagine you making your house also creating your own farm and husbandry.For cooking we can gather milk,eggs from our animals or grow vegetables and fruits in our fields .İf you wanna make silk raise silk bugs.Even we can breed  animals and sell them to other players.İmagine how many hours people put into this game for make their perfect home and farm?

Better fishing system: Seriously A-net you brought fishing to game after 10 years and you choose Stardew fishing system?That fishing system globally hated by players because its makes to fishing such a frustrating experience.Fishing is suppose to be chill.There are far better fishing mechanics  in other games you can copy and make fishing better.Example :warframe spear fishing,Palia,Runescape.Even New World have better fishing system than Gw 2.And top of all Archeage.

This is my ideas.İF you have any other ideas please share.

Edited September 11, 2023 by Carnage.6751

[Randulf.7614]

No other mmo I’ve played in the last 21 years comes remotely close to catering to the so called “casual” audience. Whilst it’s a wish washy term, guild wars 2 still embraces that audience the best

I’m not saying it gets it right all the time, but it certainly does so more than any other

[QueenKeriti.5176]

This game has always been casual. Like, insanely casual. It all but exclusively caters to casuals with some more "difficult" content thrown in to distract the less casual people. Probably the least casual thing, outside of the "difficult" content, is DE (and probably Triple Trouble, but I haven't done that in AGES) because that still requires something resembling a braincell, but it's still casual compared to many MMOs. You can explore for hours upon hours, there are faktons of achievements to try to get, masteries, adventures, roller beetle racing, griffon courses, weapons/armor/skins/legendaries, and even some crazy player created content in things like guildhalls. You don't have to worry about killstealing (except for the weird issue with the Wizard's Vault, and I'm wondering if that's a bug), everyone gets loot/XP, you don't have to group up for open world content if you don't want to, you can't have the insanely high DPS players steal your boss kill, you aren't rolling against everyone for prime loot, and so much more that I think players really don't appreciate about GW2 compared to most other MMOs. Shoot, soon you'll be able to get legendary armor (that will hypothetically look nice, even) without having to do the "elite" content; it'll be tedious af to get, but it'll still be attainable without having to big brain the game.

I would LOVE housing. Good housing. I loved housing in SWG. I dropped so many hours in decorating my houses, especially after they added pitch/yaw manipulation. It'd be really cool to have housing + a furniture crafting profession added to GW2. More Fashion Wars. I do NOT want FFXIV/Aion style housing where you have to sell your gd soul to get a house, though. I'd be cool with more Wildstar-esque housing. The Commander deserves to have their own house now that the Dragon Saga is over.

[Marikus.1875]

Isn't the home instance thing player housing or am I missing something?

[QueenKeriti.5176]

22 minutes ago, Marikus.1875 said:

Isn't the home instance thing player housing or am I missing something?

It's...really not. The only "customization" you can do for it is unlocking various material nodes, and you have no ability to decide on where those are. It pretty much only exists for story purposes. You don't have any housing capabilities with in it at all.

[Marikus.1875]

1 minute ago, QueenKeriti.5176 said:

It's...really not. The only "customization" you can do for it is unlocking various material nodes, and you have no ability to decide on where those are. It pretty much only exists for story purposes. You don't have any housing capabilities with in it at all.

Got it. Thanks for clarifying. 

With that said then, yeah I agree player housing would be a huge gold/time sink for casual players so it's a shocker the game doesn't have it yet. I look at the vast amount of time people have spent on their homes in ESO and it's mind blowing...but also really amazing some of the creative things players have done with items to place!

[willow.8209]

as someone said, this game has always been inclusive of, even catering to, casual gamers. 

I'm a bit worried it's accidentally going to lose its casual base atm. Though I hardly know what game would be comparable. 

Someone found a post from a while back, I think it would be good here to remind that this is an older game but innovative at an earlier time. I think GW2 is a very imaginative game, and I like that about it. 

Guild Wars 2 Design Manifesto – GuildWars2.com

Edited September 12, 2023 by willow.8209

[Crono.4197]

It's the other way around. The game promised to be casual, but it added harder content later. So it's the harder content that actually should not have been in this game.

I will never understand why people always expect a game to change because they don't like X thing. Imagine me going on WoW/Tera forums and doing the opposite, complaining that the game should become easier just because I say so. Many people play this game exactly because they're not the "do everything instantly or party wipes" type of hardcore game. We already have so many games that are like that, why not have a game that everyone can enjoy like Guild Wars 2? Rather than have a hardcore one that many people will run away from.

We really should stop this "mimimimi" behaviour.

[Noah Salazar.5430]

Quote

So it's the harder content that actually should not have been in this game.

I  disagree with it, it's best to have mixed amount, so you apeele larger audience

like you have gold farmers/barons, achivment hunters, casuals, hardcore masochist, gryphone/roller beetle enjoyers, RP, Mystic toilet Worm Cult, and many more 

 

evryone of them plays gw2, but on diferent way

 

Edited September 12, 2023 by Noah Salazar.5430

[Astralporing.1957]

56 minutes ago, Noah Salazar.5430 said:

I  disagree with it, it's best to have mixed amount, so you apeele larger audience

Adding new audiences only works if you can do it without affecting the previous ones. When you try to appeal to wider audience, the most likely outcome is that you make your product less appealing to all. That's what happened with HoT release, remember? In order to offer content to more hardcore players, game changed in ways that many already existing more casual players did not like. But at the same time it never changed enough for hardcore players to be truly satisfied either (and eventually disappointed them by dropping this content completely). In retrospect, if Raids were never made, and Anet concentrated on improving and iterating on what they had, instead of constantly chasing new things (just to abandon them after a while), the game might have been better for it. I mean, maybe not for small number of true hardcores, but then it's still not really a game for them anyway.

It's true that at this moment GW2 is still the best MMORPG for casual players, but that's pretty much because it's the only MMORPG which is not focused on hardcore content. As such, it can keep its place (and audience) even when it routinely gives out messages that developers either do not care about that part of community, or do not really understand it. Simply put, casuals have nowhere else to go even when they dislike the way the things are going. At best, they can drop MMORPGs altogether and go play some single players instead (tangential comment: playing BG3 currently, and so far it's really good).

Now, should any other MMORPG that more seriously targets this part of the community were ever to appear, Anet would be in massive trouble, and they'd have to up their game in a hurry. And i am not sure they can do that.

Edited September 12, 2023 by Astralporing.1957

[vares.8457]

One of the many problems with casual players is that they aren’t very loyal. They are not attached to a game. If Guild Wars 2 had only been focusing on them, the game wouldn’t evolve and the servers would have shut down long ago. 

[Noah Salazar.5430]

Quote

Adding new audiences only works if you can do it without affecting the previous ones. When you try to appeal to wider audience, the most likely outcome is that you make your product less appealing to all. 

I disagree with that too, it's like when evryone wuld play only engineer, that wuld be boring af, you need to have some form of diversability

 

witchout gold farmers, evrythink wuld be too much expensive

witchout hardcore players, ther wuld be empty lfg, or no effective cooperation

witchout achivment hunters, ther wuld be no guides 

witchout casuals, you wuld hardly find anyone on open word

 

Evryone is depended on someone else to function

 

 

Edited September 12, 2023 by Noah Salazar.5430

[Astralporing.1957]

2 minutes ago, vares.8457 said:

One of the many problems with casual players is that they aren’t very loyal. They are not attached to a game.

That's actually not true. "Hardcore" and "dedicated" are different concepts. Many hardcore players, for example, switch games at a drop of a hat. The infamous content locust crowd, for example, is all hardcore.

[Randulf.7614]

I’ve never been convinced from observations in other games, that mmo housing appeals to the “casual” audience.

[vares.8457]

1 minute ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

That's actually not true. "Hardcore" and "dedicated" are different concepts. Many hardcore players, for example, switch games at a drop of a hat. The infamous content locust crowd, for example, is all hardcore.

This has nothing to do with what I wrote, please read what was written before replying. 

[Noah Salazar.5430]

Just now, Randulf.7614 said:

I’ve never been convinced from observations in other games, that mmo housing appeals to the “casual” audience.

it's nice to look, but when it's coming to making it themself, it's hard pass xD

[Astralporing.1957]

16 minutes ago, vares.8457 said:

This has nothing to do with what I wrote, please read what was written before replying. 

But i did read and reply to that. And my answer was that i disagree with you, because from what i see being loyal/dedicated to the game is completely independent from casual/hardcore divide.

[vares.8457]

9 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

But i did read and reply to that. And my answer was that i disagree with you, because from what i see being loyal/dedicated to the game is completely independent from casual/hardcore divide.

No you didn’t read or you didn’t understand. 
Casual players not being loyal has nothing to do with how hardcore players behave. 

Edited September 12, 2023 by vares.8457

[Astralporing.1957]

5 minutes ago, vares.8457 said:

No you didn’t read or you didn’t understand. I know you want to push your usual agenda against so called hardcore players. 
Casual players not being loyal has nothing to do with how hardcore players behave. 

Of course. It has nothing to do with them being casual either. Some players are more loyal, some are less. Some use more of their time on gaming, some use less. Some prefer more casual content, some prefer more hardcore ones. Those things are not directly related to each other, and you can see players with wildly different combinations of those.

[Danikat.8537]

I think one problem this topic is having is that "casual gamer" and "harcore gamer" have no clear definition and mean different things in different contexts and to different people. In a general sense no one who plays an MMORPG would be classified as a casual gamer because none of the games (even the ones which are more casual than other MMOs) would be classed as a casual game. Even casual vs hardcore game are not well defined, but any game where you need to play for more than 10 hours to properly get started is not going to be considered casual.

Even just talking about time commitment it's important to be more specific than that. One factor used to distinguish the two groups is how long they typically play in one go - people who only play a game for an hour or two (or less!) are casual gamers, people who typically play for longer are hardcore. Likewise hardcore gamers will play the same game more frequently, casual players might only play on weekends or the occasional weeknight but not every night. But none of that says anything about long-term commitment to a game.

I have seen one study which I can't find now (I think it was by Quantic Foundry) which said the opposite of the claim in this thread - that casual players are more likely to stick with the same game and hardcore players are more likely to quit as a result of updates or because something new comes out, or just because they're following their friends around games. Although Quantic Foundry are also one of the companies that makes a distinction between 'hardcore' in terms of competition and 'hardcore' in terms of completion - hardcore completionists often get called casual players because they're not interested in doing things better or faster than other players, but they will spend a lot of time (but not necessarily in the form of longer play sessions) doing everything a game has to offer.

That definition is what made me re-think calling myself a casual player. I'm definitely not competitive, my criteria for a good build is "is it fun to play?" and "Do I usually kill things before they kill me?" and I don't care about what the numbers are or if I could push my DPS higher or whatever. If someone says they're better than me I'll agree and have no intention of trying to prove them wrong. But I've been playing this game for over 11 years now, I have 11 permanent characters and I'm slowly working my way through pretty much everything the game has to offer, including things which are not required or recognised as completed - for example when I'm doing map completion it's not enough for me to check off all the marked points and get the chest, I want to actually look around at everything, talk to the NPCs, stop and watch the sunrise etc.

I'm pretty sure most people would say that means I'm definitely a casual player, but it means retaining me as a player is much easier and more likely because it takes me a very long time to run out of things to do or get bored with what the game has to offer, and I'm less bothered by balance updates. A lot of the time I ignore them because I don't really care if a skill takes 0.5 seconds longer to recharge and don't even know what a damage coefficient is to worry about it. When they do bother me (like the recent change to ranger sword skills which added a second leap instead of a side-roll) I find something to replace it with and carry on (in this case I waited for SotO to come out then swapped to dagger instead of sword).

[DanAlcedo.3281]

- Housing

Would not care a bit about that. Why decorate a room nobody will ever see. 

- More crafting

No thank you. 

- Farming

Sure, how much gold per hour we talking? 

- Fishing

I find Gw2's fishing pretty chill. 

[phandaria.4891]

57 minutes ago, Danikat.8537 said:

I think one problem this topic is having is that "casual gamer" and "harcore gamer" have no clear definition and mean different things in different contexts and to different people. In a general sense no one who plays an MMORPG would be classified as a casual gamer because none of the games (even the ones which are more casual than other MMOs) would be classed as a casual game. Even casual vs hardcore game are not well defined, but any game where you need to play for more than 10 hours to properly get started is not going to be considered casual.

Totally this. Most people consider casual vs hardcore to be content specific such as raids. But I don't think so. What makes GW2 casual friendly is its focus on Horizontal Progression instead of Vertical Progression. No level up after 80 means, you can choose which part of the game you want to do after Core Tyria (which basically acts as a tutorial). And the fact that it is so easy to join any new content after leaving for so long is what makes it casual friendly.

Many other MMORPGS are stuck in the horizontal progression, whereas to enjoy new content you need to rank up character levels or item levels. Legendary cosmetics only given out on latest content on the highest level. Whereas in Guild Wars 2, even playing older easier content will still help you progress on legendary cosmetics.

[Killthehealersffs.8940]

3 hours ago, Noah Salazar.5430 said:

witchout hardcore players, ther wuld be empty lfg, or no effective cooperation

Also without the pvpers (us) you couldnt showcase the smoothness of the engine

 

/straight face

Edited September 12, 2023 by Killthehealersffs.8940

[AliamRationem.5172]

Sounds like a lot of effort for a bunch of stuff games more focused on this type of content probably do better.  Worse, it's a lot of resources devoted to things that many players simply don't care about.  Speaking for myself, I don't care about housing or becoming a professional craftsman in my MMO of choice.  I would, however, like to see more content like raids and fractals to complement the open world experience and provide long-term goals and a sense of difficulty progression.

[Carnage.6751]

5 hours ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

- Housing

Would not care a bit about that. Why decorate a room nobody will ever see. 

- More crafting

No thank you. 

- Farming

Sure, how much gold per hour we talking? 

- Fishing

I find Gw2's fishing pretty chill. 

Im not talking about Farmin in that sense.Im talking about building a farm.You know like in stardew.