Support and healers

[Sansar.1302]

I started playing early in the first year, what made me switch from daoc where that it wasn't any healers or support/buffers. 

Now gw2 is so full of support and healers that it is losing all fun to play for me. 

[Noah Salazar.5430]

3 hours ago, Sansar.1302 said:

I started playing early in the first year, what made me switch from daoc where that it wasn't any healers or support/buffers. 

Now gw2 is so full of support and healers that it is losing all fun to play for me. 

having support or healer is only a option

you can create party with 5 dps, or even make 3 ppl run 

 

the only think that ruins your fun, is you yourself, and zero willignes to apply rule, as leader of party/squad

 

i did full engi squad once, no one stoped me from doing so

 

 

Edited September 12, 2023 by Noah Salazar.5430

[Sansar.1302]

4 minutes ago, Noah Salazar.5430 said:

having support or healer is only a option

you can create party with 5 dps, or even make 3 ppl run 

 

the only think that ruins your fun, is you yourself, and zero willignes to apply rule, as leader of party/squad

 

i did full engi squad once, no one stoped me from doing so

 

 

I only play the two pvp modes so not much choice for me 😞

[Noah Salazar.5430]

8 minutes ago, Sansar.1302 said:

I only play the two pvp modes so not much choice for me 😞

try wvw as 3-5ppl

[Sansar.1302]

5 minutes ago, Noah Salazar.5430 said:

try wvw as 3-5ppl

Yes I do a lot but not fun when enemy have healers/support, this game is not built for it 

[Noah Salazar.5430]

19 minutes ago, Sansar.1302 said:

Yes I do a lot but not fun when enemy have healers/support, this game is not built for it 

ignore healer/support and as 3 ppl focus dps insted

once his alone cuz evryone other died, his useless, as he can't harm you

 

Adapt your strategy to remove/disable that role from game

 

If you play solo, it's bit much harder to do, as your class can not have boon coruption, poison, or inaf burst, that counter a healeer

Edited September 12, 2023 by Noah Salazar.5430

[Sansar.1302]

1 hour ago, Noah Salazar.5430 said:

ignore healer/support and as 3 ppl focus dps insted

once his alone cuz evryone other died, his useless, as he can't harm you

 

Adapt your strategy to remove/disable that role from game

 

If you play solo, it's bit much harder to do, as your class can not have boon coruption, poison, or inaf burst, that counter a healeer

Point is that guild wars 2 where not deigned to have those role and therfor now when they are shoehorned into the game it degenerates the whole combat system that is the foundation of this game.

Guild Wars 2 should be hardcore game not this theme park mmo it have become.

Personal reaction time and skill should be the most important of all.

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

1 hour ago, Noah Salazar.5430 said:

having support or healer is only a option

you can create party with 5 dps, or even make 3 ppl run 

 

the only think that ruins your fun, is you yourself, and zero willignes to apply rule, as leader of party/squad

 

i did full engi squad once, no one stoped me from doing so

 

 

And we've done all thieves!

[Danikat.8537]

GW2 has always had support and healing mechanics. What they promoted at launch is that it doesn't have dedicated support classes or areas of the game that will force you to bring at least one dedicated healer or support player (either through explicitly requiring it when forming a group or through mechanics which cannot be beaten any other way). It's always been necessary for groups to have some support capability - that's why everyone always has at least a self-heal skill - but it's up to the group how they share that out.

That's important because it means static groups don't have to force someone to play support when no one in their group actually enjoys that role and no one is stuck for ages waiting for a healer because most players don't like playing them because levelling up is annoying when your damage is limited. (Yes there are people who like playing healers, I'm one of them, but not as many as want to play other roles.)

But equally there has always been the option to make a character focused on healing or support. It wasn't necessary in a lot of PvE early on, especially when pulling enemies into a corner or burning them down quickly could prevent most of their mechanics and the game has gradually changed to address that way of playing (although it still comes up fairly often in dungeons) but WvW and PvP have always made more use of support mechanics and so players in those modes have always needed ways to counter it. (Even I've heard about how annoying 'bunker' builds are, and I hardly ever play PvP.)

[Sansar.1302]

35 minutes ago, Danikat.8537 said:

GW2 has always had support and healing mechanics. What they promoted at launch is that it doesn't have dedicated support classes or areas of the game that will force you to bring at least one dedicated healer or support player (either through explicitly requiring it when forming a group or through mechanics which cannot be beaten any other way). It's always been necessary for groups to have some support capability - that's why everyone always has at least a self-heal skill - but it's up to the group how they share that out.

That's important because it means static groups don't have to force someone to play support when no one in their group actually enjoys that role and no one is stuck for ages waiting for a healer because most players don't like playing them because levelling up is annoying when your damage is limited. (Yes there are people who like playing healers, I'm one of them, but not as many as want to play other roles.)

But equally there has always been the option to make a character focused on healing or support. It wasn't necessary in a lot of PvE early on, especially when pulling enemies into a corner or burning them down quickly could prevent most of their mechanics and the game has gradually changed to address that way of playing (although it still comes up fairly often in dungeons) but WvW and PvP have always made more use of support mechanics and so players in those modes have always needed ways to counter it. (Even I've heard about how annoying 'bunker' builds are, and I hardly ever play PvP.)

but over the years they have kind of put dedicated healers and support in the game 😞

[Chyro.1462]

Either adjust to the situation or find some other game that offers what you want. It's highly unlikely that lamenting the existence of supports/healers here will change anything about the game, cause a lot of people enjoy playing those roles and how the game functions with them. They won't change this just because one person feels unhappy with it. So what do you hope to achieve in this topic?

[phandaria.4891]

7 hours ago, Sansar.1302 said:

I started playing early in the first year, what made me switch from daoc where that it wasn't any healers or support/buffers. 

Now gw2 is so full of support and healers that it is losing all fun to play for me. 

The fact that the game grew over the years. Dungeons were scrapped and they designed Raid, then Strikes, which requires the need of dedicated healer kind of role. The fact that many players enjoyed these contents as well as playing healer role made them move forward to design more of healer/boon support specializations. Just natural development of a MMORPG.

Even during the core era, mesmer already became the de facto boon support with Time Warp. It's just that no other classes were rivaling mesmers in their offensive support (probably only Banner Warriors who came close).

[Sansar.1302]

1 hour ago, phandaria.4891 said:

The fact that the game grew over the years. Dungeons were scrapped and they designed Raid, then Strikes, which requires the need of dedicated healer kind of role. The fact that many players enjoyed these contents as well as playing healer role made them move forward to design more of healer/boon support specializations. Just natural development of a MMORPG.

Even during the core era, mesmer already became the de facto boon support with Time Warp. It's just that no other classes were rivaling mesmers in their offensive support (probably only Banner Warriors who came close).

And how big presentage of player raid? 

I believe that those numbers are really low. 

You addmit that they have focused a lot on healing support and boons and I think the game is in a worse state because of if. 

[Sansar.1302]

1 hour ago, Chyro.1462 said:

Either adjust to the situation or find some other game that offers what you want. It's highly unlikely that lamenting the existence of supports/healers here will change anything about the game, cause a lot of people enjoy playing those roles and how the game functions with them. They won't change this just because one person feels unhappy with it. So what do you hope to achieve in this topic?

Alot of people dislike the boon meta (witch comes mainly from support) 

I am not against healing but I feel it have come totally out of control

Healing from combo fields and etc is 100% fine, the specs that focus on it are not in any way ok

[Hesione.9412]

5 hours ago, Sansar.1302 said:

Point is that guild wars 2 where not deigned to have those role and therfor now when they are shoehorned into the game it degenerates the whole combat system that is the foundation of this game.

Guild Wars 2 should be hardcore game not this theme park mmo it have become.

Personal reaction time and skill should be the most important of all.

Those of us with over 200 ping play hardcore all the time.

[LadyKitty.6120]

1 hour ago, Sansar.1302 said:

Alot of people dislike the boon meta (witch comes mainly from support) 

I am not against healing but I feel it have come totally out of control

Healing from combo fields and etc is 100% fine, the specs that focus on it are not in any way ok

Then what do you suggest? In instanced PVE, the alternative would be pretty much everyone running self-heal traits and max. damage reduction (unless the very little elite % that doesn't eat ANY mechanics) and everything would take so long that for ex. T4 fractals would basically die compared to current state (and note: Kitty did do T4s during the era when it was just 5 DPS with self-boon builds before the influx of raiders and current heal+boonDPS+3DPS comp. Way smoother and funnier now.)

[Sansar.1302]

23 minutes ago, Hesione.9412 said:

Those of us with over 200 ping play hardcore all the time.

feel sorry for you , dont think guild wars 2 is playable with 200ping 

It is to much reaction based combat ( witch is what makes gw2 fun )

[Dadnir.5038]

4 hours ago, Sansar.1302 said:

but over the years they have kind of put dedicated healers and support in the game 😞

Being healing or support it's always been of importance regardless of gamemodes since release. The only thing that changed is that with HoT, a need for some role diversity was introduced in GW2 PvE, but that's about all.

• In WvW I've heard commanders shouting for boon and healing since November 2012 (which is basically when I start playing in this gamemode).
• In PvE you could play in group without support and healing in the vanilla game but it was basically hard mode when all you had to do is take in your group a smart elementalist. (Necromancers were kicked out of groups for a few reasons, amongst which their undesirable fields that were hindering boon generation. Funily enough, necromancer was a strong pure healer in the vanilla game but it was a loss to take one over the multitalented elementalist)
• In sPvP, the early days were also the ESL days and the team were well aware of how strong support and healing was in the game.

[IndigoSundown.5419]

The support/healing options in GW2 were added because people whined about not "making a unique contribution."  This came primarily from players who migrated from other games, where the tank-dps-heals mentality prevailed.

[Linken.6345]

11 hours ago, Noah Salazar.5430 said:

having support or healer is only a option

you can create party with 5 dps, or even make 3 ppl run 

 

the only think that ruins your fun, is you yourself, and zero willignes to apply rule, as leader of party/squad

 

i did full engi squad once, no one stoped me from doing so

 

 

Well engineer is one of the classes that can be both alac and quickness support  so you dont have to forgo support in any way going 10 engineers.

[Doggie.3184]

Yeah one of the big pitches for the game to make it unique from other MMOs was "no Holy Trinity" but alas there is a Holy Trinity now. More than just 3 even. A worse, messier version.

[Zebulous.2934]

Wait. Core elementalist water attunement.  None of the other core attunements heal.  Been that way from day one.  Even mesmers have always been able to heal others.  The whole point of Gw2 not having the holy trinity baked into the game is that any class can tank, dps, heal, or support.

The spread of boons and skills is a bit wonky across classes.  Raid leaders and commanders don't often want to try healers with odd classes.  I assume that is why I don't see elementalist healers, or mesmer healers.  

Why does op act like this is a new thing?

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

9 hours ago, Doggie.3184 said:

Yeah one of the big pitches for the game to make it unique from other MMOs was "no Holy Trinity" but alas there is a Holy Trinity now. More than just 3 even. A worse, messier version.

The "no holy trinity" idea was meant to prevent professions from being forced into roles, not that there was no professions capable of healing or support. 

[Danikat.8537]

1 hour ago, Zebulous.2934 said:

Wait. Core elementalist water attunement.  None of the other core attunements heal.  Been that way from day one.  Even mesmers have always been able to heal others.  The whole point of Gw2 not having the holy trinity baked into the game is that any class can tank, dps, heal, or support.

The spread of boons and skills is a bit wonky across classes.  Raid leaders and commanders don't often want to try healers with odd classes.  I assume that is why I don't see elementalist healers, or mesmer healers.  

Why does op act like this is a new thing?

Core ranger too. The weapon skills aren't good for healing (but could do decent CC) but Healing Spring and a combination of spirits, shouts and pet skills could provide decent healing, condition removal and boons. It's one reason longbow ranger was (and is) unpopular in groups - you could be doing a lot to support your group but if you're too far away they're out of range of your skills and don't get any benefit (and you don't benefit from theirs).

That's not the only reason longbow ranger is unpopular in groups. In a lot of situations, especially in dungeons and Fractals, you can't get far enough away to get the full damage on the auto-attack, skill 3 is pretty useless after the July 2013 update, 4 is worse than useless because knockback is almost never helpful in groups and 5 has a long recharge, so you can't use the weapon effectively most of the time. But being unable to share boons and condi removal with your group was a commonly raised problem.

[phandaria.4891]

10 hours ago, Doggie.3184 said:

Yeah one of the big pitches for the game to make it unique from other MMOs was "no Holy Trinity" but alas there is a Holy Trinity now. More than just 3 even. A worse, messier version.

The Holy Trinity was established by the players with DPS, blasting water field and Time Warp, now it is LESS messier than the patchwork that the players came up with.