Studio Update - Autumn 2023: WvW roadmap

[subversiontwo.7501]

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/studio-update-guild-wars-2-in-autumn-and-winter-2023/

"World vs. World

We’ll have another blog out with more detailed information on World vs. World in a few weeks, but here are some highlights for this quarter.

In late January 2024, we’ll be expanding the ways you can use your guild hall to create unique gameplay experiences with a guild hall arena update, including a selector to control which game mode rules your guild arena uses. This new feature will give you the ability to set your personal game mode in the guild hall, enabling the skills and balancing for the Player vs. Player or World vs. World game modes. In addition, we’ll be introducing options to select teams outside of the confines of the guild arena, giving you access to the entire map so you can battle your friends.

We’ll also be running another World Restructuring beta in early 2024. As we discussed in our last studio update, the WvW team has shifted their priority to releasing a live version of the guild-based World Restructuring system. Doing this allows us to get consistent live data and feedback from the community to inform our continued development and improvement. Since our last beta, we’ve addressed a number of issues with guild selection, queue failures, reset issues, and more. In the next beta, we’ll be testing the new team builder, UI updates, and bug fixes. Assuming everything goes well with that test, we will be able to move forward with turning the system on full time. While we don’t have dates for the beta or initial release at this time, we will let you know as soon as possible to allow you time to organize your guilds."

Edited October 24, 2023 by subversiontwo.7501

[subversiontwo.7501]

Now, here's some realist commentary that I'm sure some will find pessimist:

Quote

We’ll have another blog out with more detailed information on World vs. World in a few weeks

Last time they said this it took a few months instead and information was far from a technical deep dive or progression-oriented beyond simply stating it.

Quote

In late January 2024, we’ll be expanding the ways you can use your guild hall to create unique gameplay experiences with a guild hall arena update, including a selector to control which game mode rules your guild arena uses.

While this is a potentially really nice change from a technical (w/e) standpoint, it serves to point out that that it will mostly just restore functionality that we already had 2015-2017, before they threw all other balance out the window in favour of instanced PvE. It would be nice to hear more about this. When they were asked by players about this in the past the response always was that it was technically infeasible yet suddenly here it is with little fanfare after years of fallout. That raises questions. It would also be interesting to hear about whether any of the older bugs and issues (such as problems sluicing players in for the standard 15v15) have been addressed with these changes as well. Again, positive news, just odd, blindsiding and contradictive news that raises questions about what time and resources were spent on it. A year's systems programming for WR?

Quote

We’ll also be running another World Restructuring beta in early 2024.

Again, the last few expectant time frames we were given for things like this were overshot by multiple months. Early 2024 may mean june, august or excuses. Adjust expectations or factor that into your reactions or commentary. While a final beta for a last set of data may be prudent (especially if they have added new algorithms etc., and plan to run multi-week betas) it also suggests running a (multi-week-) beta that was already postponed this summer. I don't mean alliances. It's not chippy to point out, but I think it is fair.

Edited October 24, 2023 by subversiontwo.7501

[ilMasa.2546]

Nothing new: the wvw team (aka Bob,cos there is only Bob working on the so called "cornerstone" mode of this game) has been working really hard the whole year.

Unfortunately, Bob has a dream: a worthy UI because "players are not currently getting much value from all of the work he has already put in". Thanks Bob, I hope you succeed. We'll see you again in 4 years to find out how the UI is progressing.

Also Bob, one little thing: since you have to work on the UI, could you open Photoshop and tidy up the edges of the Alpine borders on the map with the translucent eraser? They seem to have been thrown in there just for the sake of it. I can wait 2 more years to have a good looking map 🙃

Alos i just noticed an other thing,Bob: do you see the annoying black line above the Edge of the Mist bl? Can you clean that aswell? The lasso may have had the outline wrong

Edited October 24, 2023 by ilMasa.2546

[XenesisII.1540]

/slow clap

Introducing guild hall arena updates 8 years after releasing it, and too many years later after a lot of competitive guilds have already left the game.

🥱

[Justine.6351]

Shocking.

[TheGrimm.5624]

"This new feature will give you the ability to set your personal game mode in the guild hall, enabling the skills and balancing for the Player vs. Player or World vs. World game modes. In addition, we’ll be introducing options to select teams outside of the confines of the guild arena, giving you access to the entire map so you can battle your friends."

I take this though as we can use the entire guild hall as a battle ground. This could be interesting. I like the option to set the guild hall for which area of play as well since it allows for more internal guild testing if people want to try out new builds or understand how a skill did what to them in the mists. This could be pretty cool. Especially if you mix in obstacles. May have to go start collecting those rollerbeetle features for a roller/WvW idea. 

As far as releasing the WR minus the Alliances, I see some value in getting production data to tune their calculations, but still concerned Alliances are then moved out 5 years. If that is the case may have nickname the WR minus the Alliance to "Shake and Bake" personally. Or use the old Ronco "Set and Forget It". Its more than likely going forward anyway but...

 

[Infusion.7149]

I have no confidence in alliances coming. The guildhall changes are probably to satiate the part of the playerbase that is more interested in GvG than WvW.

What is equally alarming is the lack of any form of action as far as nonprogramming aspects of alliances, such as increased funding via WvW specific cosmetic updates (whether it is new warclaw skins, introduction of siege skins ala Wintersday, etc). If they are consistently behind schedule there needs to be more funding to bring more team members (temporary or otherwise) or outside help. Alliances is no small programming endeavor since it involves so many things unlike quests and any form of PvE/PvP content which can be copy pasted either from old code or other games systems.

Edited October 25, 2023 by Infusion.7149

[Chips.7968]

Guild Hall is a part of world vs world? Since when. 

Arenanet deserve scorn. It's embarrassing. 

Edited October 25, 2023 by Chips.7968

[XenesisII.1540]

Just further shows who they're actually listening to for wvw.

[Riba.3271]

This announcement includes nothing. More betas? Choice of balance in guild hall? What? Did they work more than a day in past year?

[Dawdler.8521]

On 10/24/2023 at 10:31 PM, TheGrimm.5624 said:

I take this though as we can use the entire guild hall as a battle ground. This could be interesting.

Yes I expect at least TWICE as many guilds to be active fighting in the guild halls now!

Wait what’s 0 times 2?

[ArchonWing.9480]

31 minutes ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

Yes I expect at least TWICE as many guilds to be active fighting in the guild halls now!

Wait what’s 0 times 2?

According to the scouts on my server, "inc [Stonemist Castle]"

[SweetPotato.7456]

Question about how to understand this correctly

"We’ll also be running another World Restructuring beta in early 2024. As we discussed in our last studio update, the WvW team has shifted their priority to releasing a live version of the guild-based World Restructuring system. Doing this allows us to get consistent live data and feedback from the community to inform our continued development and improvement. Since our last beta, we’ve addressed a number of issues with guild selection, queue failures, reset issues, and more. In the next beta, we’ll be testing the new team builder, UI updates, and bug fixes. Assuming everything goes well with that test, we will be able to move forward with turning the system on full time. While we don’t have dates for the beta or initial release at this time, we will let you know as soon as possible to allow you time to organize your guilds."

The Questions:
1) The first time I read the update, it appears to me Anet isn't releasing WR system without the UI, now it seems to me that they are? 
2) how many betas until WR with Alliance UI is release full time? 
3) What does live version Means?
4) what does Guild-based World Restructuring means?
5) What are team builder?

Edited October 25, 2023 by SweetPotato.7456

[TheGrimm.5624]

50 minutes ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

Yes I expect at least TWICE as many guilds to be active fighting in the guild halls now!

Wait what’s 0 times 2?

Actually I am picturing a RollerBeetle Mad Max with WvW rules situation myself. I can't speak to GvGs but internal guild shenanigans could be had. Means I need to get started on gathering the decorations for the track if it does mean you can use the full hall. 

[RisingDawn.5796]

On 10/25/2023 at 10:37 PM, Riba.3271 said:

This announcement includes nothing. More betas? Choice of balance in guild hall? What? Did they work more than a day in past year?

WvW lead dev left back in May, so development likely stalled and one of the Devs, was in a guild promoting GvG tournaments inside the Guild hall arenas, so no surprise there.

My guild back in HoT fought 20+ Guilds in the Guild Hall Arena, yet I would not recommend that Arena for GvG, especially with the current meta, even with WvW multipliers, it would need a better invite group  system and a bigger arena. I don't know what it has to do with WvW either.

It's sad really, I was looking forward to a two week break from these relinks in August and maybe Alliances being ready to launch in some form, sometime next year (lol).

Edited October 26, 2023 by CrimsonOneThree.5682

[Luranni.9470]

49 minutes ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

Actually I am picturing a RollerBeetle Mad Max with WvW rules situation myself. I can't speak to GvGs but internal guild shenanigans could be had. Means I need to get started on gathering the decorations for the track if it does mean you can use the full hall. 

Depending on how spaghetti it ends up being, I plan on building an unreal tournament stage, we can all roll meme eyes and funflamers with pve rules and get sniping. 😛

[Burnfall.9573]

 

[TheGrimm.5624]

6 hours ago, Luranni.9470 said:

Depending on how spaghetti it ends up being, I plan on building an unreal tournament stage, we can all roll meme eyes and funflamers with pve rules and get sniping. 😛

lol, now you make me regret not keeping that second account up to date since I have a connection that could actually connect EU now. So +1 from me, totally jelly. But mind you I expect videos and musicals from you. Just sayin.

[TheGrimm.5624]

13 minutes ago, Burnfall.9573 said:

 

Thanks Burn will have to visit but the opening, spinal injury, ouch! Sorry The Krytan Herald. Take care and rest as needed. 

[Burnfall.9573]

1 minute ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

Thanks Burn will have to visit but the opening, spinal injury, ouch! Sorry The Krytan Herald. Take care and rest as needed. 

 

You're Welcome my friend. I hope she gets better too. 

[Bizgurk.5639]

11 hours ago, SweetPotato.7456 said:

1) The first time I read the update, it appears to me Anet isn't releasing WR system without the UI, now it seems to me that they are?

They only mentioned an "UI update", whereas they clearly stated in the previous roadmap that they don't intend to release WR with the Alliance system (and thus, also without UI). So I guess they mean an UI update for the guild-based WR.

12 hours ago, SweetPotato.7456 said:

2) how many betas until WR with Alliance UI is release full time?

"Assuming everything goes well with that test, we will be able to move forward with turning the system on full time"
So the answer is: We don't know...

12 hours ago, SweetPotato.7456 said:

3) What does live version Means?

That there won't be any betas anymore. That, what you experienced during the beta, will be active all the time. Probably without the Alliance system and UI
But I guess as soon they have the Alliance UI ready they'll plan some betas to test that. (which will mostly likely be somewhen after the WR release... in a few years or never)

12 hours ago, SweetPotato.7456 said:

4) what does Guild-based World Restructuring means?

That's basically the system we had during the last betas: You choose a guild, you'll get teamed with everyone who chose that guild too.

12 hours ago, SweetPotato.7456 said:

5) What are team builder?

That's the system that puts several guilds together in a team (former world). Not sure what they change here, since it seemed to work proberly during the last beta. Also the "One Up, One Down" seemed to work during the last beta as well. Perhaps it's something with the intention to create a better balancing between each team. We'll see...

I know most answers are not what you hoped to hear. In fact, I imagine it to be quite disappointing for people like you, who developed friendships and connections during the past eleven years. Seems like we're stuck and have to put everyone we'd like to play with in one single guild until the Alliance system arrives... if it ever arrives...

[Mabi black.1824]

Then, perhaps, one day, someone will explain to me how the competitive aspect works in this new WVW 2.0 game mode ( Which was once large-scale PvP) . Our long-term outlook will be 8 weeks. Good luck to all.

Edited October 26, 2023 by Mabi black.1824

[SweetPotato.7456]

1 hour ago, Bizgurk.5639 said:

They only mentioned an "UI update", whereas they clearly stated in the previous roadmap that they don't intend to release WR with the Alliance system (and thus, also without UI). So I guess they mean an UI update for the guild-based WR.

"Assuming everything goes well with that test, we will be able to move forward with turning the system on full time"
So the answer is: We don't know...

That there won't be any betas anymore. That, what you experienced during the beta, will be active all the time. Probably without the Alliance system and UI
But I guess as soon they have the Alliance UI ready they'll plan some betas to test that. (which will mostly likely be somewhen after the WR release... in a few years or never)

That's basically the system we had during the last betas: You choose a guild, you'll get teamed with everyone who chose that guild too.

That's the system that puts several guilds together in a team (former world). Not sure what they change here, since it seemed to work proberly during the last beta. Also the "One Up, One Down" seemed to work during the last beta as well. Perhaps it's something with the intention to create a better balancing between each team. We'll see...

I know most answers are not what you hoped to hear. In fact, I imagine it to be quite disappointing for people like you, who developed friendships and connections during the past eleven years. Seems like we're stuck and have to put everyone we'd like to play with in one single guild until the Alliance system arrives... if it ever arrives...

Thank you so much, need to understand clearly, otherwise  I will  over expect, and then the disappointment will be even greater.  

sad they are going to go ahead without the UI. 

[RisingDawn.5796]

It could be a while, before we see it pushed full time though and that's the issue, because development got stalled.

I think the Linking system has gotten so stale and the players also made balancing even worse over time, with Alts and transfers. At least quite a few WvW Server communities, stuck together though in the EU side at least, but many others get kitten by the Linking and population system, along with players habits.

I've seen communities ripped apart over the years, due to transfers at least or lack of a link, bandwagons to link servers, so people get tired of it and leave, or quit the game.

Edited October 26, 2023 by CrimsonOneThree.5682

[jaif.3518]

Translation:

Nothing more this year.

Hopefully anothet beta early next year. Maybe more after that, but no promises.

Maybe a guild feature added early next year.

 

Im glad to see support for wvw is still the same.  They continue to bank on being the only wvw game in town. They are right for now, but we'll see what the future brings.