The ultimate representation of what's good - or S-Tier

[Arken.3725]

This argument cannot be refuted.  The most simple and objective way to judge what's solid vs what's not is its representation in MAT.  This is the ultimate deciding factor.  There's no need for any further discussion.  Look at what's represented for the winning teams(or those who get very close).  It's hilarious how many topics we have when you can literally just look at what's played.  Ray Charles' blind self could see how obvious this is.  If someone complains about a spec or profession that saw very little-to-no representation, their argument is automatically invalid.  This becomes a literal "gitgud" moment for them.  

 

Edited November 14, 2023 by Arken.3725

[lotus.5672]

holy kitten its afkarken

[Arken.3725]

13 minutes ago, lotus.5672 said:

holy kitten its afkarken

All day 🙂

[Creativity.3816]

+1 ray charles

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

A special message from Ray Charles to those who complain about things being OP that aren't actually OP:

 

Edited November 12, 2023 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[arazoth.7290]

37 minutes ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

A special message from Ray Charles to those who complain about things being OP that aren't actually OP:

 

Ray Charles needs a nerf

[Myror.7521]

@Arken.3725 i would say yes ..... but also no. The reason why you Play something as you do in conquest is its teamcomb and not the class itself. For example a Bladesworn is OP when it comes to self sustain. But is it for real OP cause of this? Not realy. It still does need a Guy that could plus it cause on the long run in a 1v1 scenario the bsw would into a Full CD Mode and get rekt in time (if both Players are good and know how to counterplay each other). In the long run its the Teamplay and comb that win the game and not just one specific class ^^

[Puck.3697]

Ofcourse it is lol. 

Because in normal competitive modes, there's too many variables to make any sorta argument on. 

Disparity in skill

Team comps

Can in themselves sway the looks of things massively, and because of this its incredibly hard to make a aegument somethings overpowered. 

Thief's a good example of that, in regular competitive you never see them have the same level of dominance as they do in regular games. 

And it aint just because "the guy playing thief is bad" it's because competitive is unorganised, if a thief's team is bad, they will fail, just like if the thief itself is bad will also fail

 

 

Edited November 12, 2023 by Puck.3697

[Flowki.7194]

If they made 5v5 premade or solo que only, and then reduced the range of matchmaking, your argument would make sense. Realistically, sPVP is a mess between off peak duos, and a wide range in matchmaking. But the thing is, since that is the reality of the game for most people, then that should also be considered. Can you balance around that mess? no, and you should not even try, but you can at least ensure all specs have a healthy skill floor that reflects healthy risk/reward ratios >> final effectiveness.

 

It is always a thing in this playerbase to confuse effectiveness with spec skill floor/ceiling difficulty, it is just not the same thing, and its an imporant difference. Low effort and low risk specs should not be highly rewarding, not even moderately rewarding. There are only a hand full of ''viable'' specs in this current game that deserve to be S-tier, with high skill floor, and high risk. Most current specs, and even half of the current meta builds, shouldnt even be above D-C tier for the effort, or risk. It baffles me that this playbase have nothing to say about the amount of low effort specs in use now, that are way too effective. It makes the game hell for people who play a more difficult spec at an average skill level. Concerntrating only on the top level, and only on skill ceilings, while ignoring the absolute dredge of low skill floor specs that are dominating avg/below game play is a huge mistake.

Edited November 12, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[Gamble.4580]

Still the best meta yet for ranked. Every class has something and nothing is broken

[Terrorhuz.4695]

On 11/12/2023 at 1:01 AM, lotus.5672 said:

holy kitten its afkarken

I've been waiting for 6 months now and you STILL didn't explain how I'm supposed to cleanse chilled with Auspicious Anguish!

[deathdealer.2197]

11 hours ago, Gamble.4580 said:

Still the best meta yet for ranked. Every class has something and nothing is broken

True tbh

[Sahne.6950]

Things that are good in MAT arent automatically good in solo or DuoQ Ranked. In MAT you have teammates and most importantly supports you can rely on.

 

For Solo or DuoQ you want to play more selfish builds.

 

Saying: "anything that didnt win MAT is not a valid candidate for a balancediscussion" is just wrong.

[shion.2084]

On 11/11/2023 at 6:46 PM, Arken.3725 said:

This argument cannot be refuted.  The most simple and objective way to judge what's solid vs what's not is its representation in MOTA's.  This is the ultimate deciding factor.  There's no need for any further discussion.  Look at what's represented for the winning teams(or those who get very close).  It's hilarious how many topics we have when you can literally just look at what's played.  Ray Charles' blind self could see how obvious this is.  If someone complains about a spec or profession that saw very little-to-no representation, their argument is automatically invalid.  This becomes a literal "gitgud" moment for them.  

 

I refute it.  MAT is a good representation of what is good/S-tier in MAT.  Ranked with duo's != MAT with 5 man.  There will be some overlap to be sure, but the kind of strategies and synergies and convering for weaknesses you can get out of a coordinated team has little to do with what's going to work well in a random group of PUG's.   Has nothing to do with Get Good if your MAT S tier build, relies on another guy's CC build to lock down the opponent... and in ranked that other CC guy isn't on your team.
 

Edited November 13, 2023 by shion.2084

[WhoWantsAHug.3186]

Core guard is S+ tier and straight broken in ranked. spec needs a considerable nerf IMO

[Last Crab.6054]

On 11/11/2023 at 4:46 PM, Arken.3725 said:

This argument cannot be refuted.  The most simple and objective way to judge what's solid vs what's not is its representation in MOTA's.  This is the ultimate deciding factor.  There's no need for any further discussion.  Look at what's represented for the winning teams(or those who get very close).  It's hilarious how many topics we have when you can literally just look at what's played.  Ray Charles' blind self could see how obvious this is.  If someone complains about a spec or profession that saw very little-to-no representation, their argument is automatically invalid.  This becomes a literal "gitgud" moment for them.  

 

is mota, monthly tournament?

I'm confused because since they came out it was always MATs

unless you mean gas

Edited November 14, 2023 by Last Crab.6054

[Arken.3725]

15 hours ago, WhoWantsAHug.3186 said:

Core guard is S+ tier and straight broken in ranked. spec needs a considerable nerf IMO

I'm not arguing this. Core support guard is insanely strong. 

[Arken.3725]

14 hours ago, Last Crab.6054 said:

is mota, monthly tournament?

I'm confused because since they came out it was always MATs

unless you mean gas

Yes my apologies, I meant MAT

[whooot.5784]

On 11/14/2023 at 3:28 AM, WhoWantsAHug.3186 said:

Core guard is S+ tier and straight broken in ranked. spec needs a considerable nerf IMO

Core guard sup is fine, the 3stacks burn they share instantly from f1 is absolutly not tho, you just got condibombed and melt like a sugar in coffee just because a core guard pressed f1.

That skill needs a bit of rework in my opinion, they should shave the burn duration idk, but it's a bit to strong right now.

[Grimjack.8130]

On 11/15/2023 at 5:22 PM, whooot.5784 said:

Core guard sup is fine, the 3stacks burn they share instantly from f1 is absolutly not tho, you just got condibombed and melt like a sugar in coffee just because a core guard pressed f1.

That skill needs a bit of rework in my opinion, they should shave the burn duration idk, but it's a bit to strong right now.

wdym? the duration of the venom is only longer than the recharge, its only instant cast, doesnt get wasted on dodges or the like, and applies 3 stacks of burns from up to 5 targets- its not theres that many skills that apply 15 burn especially with all the setup coreguardf1 needs to be useful! x d

Edited November 17, 2023 by Grimjack.8130

[Tanuki.4603]

take your head out of your kitten, no one watches the mat or cares about it, even mightyteapot stopped streaming them because there was no interest, for a regular player it absolutely doesn't matter that they're playing some cheesy specs because that's not going to help them do well in ranked

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

4 minutes ago, Tanuki.4603 said:

take your head out of your kitten, no one watches the mat or cares about it, even mightyteapot stopped streaming them because there was no interest, for a regular player it absolutely doesn't matter that they're playing some cheesy specs because that's not going to help them do well in ranked

Teapot streams EU MAT every month my dude.

[Tanuki.4603]

Just now, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Teapot streams EU MAT every month my dude.

Wrong. He did not stream the last 3 mATS and they are not on his youtube either ( since he didn't stream them).  And he said that he cannot be bothered hosting them anymore, he always had a drop off in viewership so you can tell there is no interest.

Last ditch effort to blatantly lie from a fanboy i guess, sad to see Trevor

[WhoWantsAHug.3186]

30 minutes ago, Tanuki.4603 said:

Wrong. He did not stream the last 3 mATS and they are not on his youtube either ( since he didn't stream them).  And he said that he cannot be bothered hosting them anymore, he always had a drop off in viewership so you can tell there is no interest.

Last ditch effort to blatantly lie from a fanboy i guess, sad to see Trevor

Yea his viewership probably drops off because all he does is spam change matches. If he actually picked the best game, or a chose one and watched the entire match, it would actually be entertaining to watch him stream mATs. He's doing a disservice because now plebs like me can't see all the good builds. 

[Buran.3796]

3 hours ago, Tanuki.4603 said:

Wrong. He did not stream the last 3 mATS and they are not on his youtube either ( since he didn't stream them).  And he said that he cannot be bothered hosting them anymore, he always had a drop off in viewership so you can tell there is no interest.

   While is true that didn't showcase the last ones I'm not sure about the real reasons, since A) He hosted 2 raid tournaments in the last 2 MAT, so maybe it was just a conflict schedule and B) He has been steraming WoW (World of Addons) for a while, losing 2/3 of views compared to his regular numbers, so I'm not sure/convinced  "lack of views" is a real argument about why is not hosting the MATs. 

   What I would argue is that He has not streamed any match playing himself at PvP for more than a year, and I think that is not due He lost interest in it (hard to believe since they still play other dead competitive games as Starcraft II) but because the regular experience (lack of balance amongst specs, lots of afks, difficulty to progress in solo q... ) will probably deliver a sour taste of the state of the game to the audience.