Skyscale rendered the Turtle Useless

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

SO in addition to the skyscale making long range tagging completely trivial so you don't have to play, and the fact that it has mostly replaced the griffon and raptor and completely replaced the rabbit, it has now also completely replaced the siege turtle as well. The latest mastery "Sieging Fireball" now has the same effect the siege turtle does with its skills.  You don't even need to use the siege turtle anymore to break down walls or anything else.  Sure you can use the siege turtle for CCing breakbars but you can also just use regular skills for that.  Why take away the one thing the siege turtle did that was unique?  Now whats the point in buying skins for it or using it at all (other than, I just like it)? I liked cantha way better, disappointing that they changed direction on that whole expansion and abandoned it.

Edited November 15, 2023 by Jumpin Lumpix.6108

[kharmin.7683]

There is nothing stopping you from continuing to use the siege turtle as implemented and to not use the skyscale.  I don't understand the complaint.

[RagiNagi.1802]

Siege Turtle has always been a meme mount anyway. I'm happy they took this route with skyscale. Now i don't need to bother with unlocking the turtle. yay!

[Manpag.6421]

It definitely hasn’t. Yes, the skyscale’s coverage as a Jack-of-all-trades has been increased even more, but there’s a reason so many people jump on their turtles in the Nayos meta: the skyscale siege does absolutely pitiful siege damage, something like 1/5–1/4 of a single turtle slam, on a 25s cooldown. You can do it at range without needing a second person, but that’s all it has going for it.

It’s nice that players who just have SotO have a mount that can do siege damage without needing to own EoD or hope someone opens up their turtle seat, but if you have both then turtle will be the optimal choice in almost every situation. The only place where this won’t be true is the Aspenwood meta if you have very few players, where they’re probably a better option than relying on the NPC siege turtles.

[Tuna Bandit.3786]

Siege turtle still has a lot of benefits over the Skyscale.

MUCH tankier, damage from canons is often much higher than Skyscale, Can hold a friend. 
Don't need to deal with instantly recovering enemies since skyscale cannot really target stuff from the air on the ground unless someone else is engaging the same enemy. (Enemy will instantly recover)

And I never got the note that Skyscale replaced Griffon. That part is not true. Skyscale is a great addition to the Griffon, but for me it's a mount that makes it easy to get up high to get a good starting point for the Griffon.

Heck even the flame beacon event in newest Meta is ruled by Griffon enthousiasts.

[Farohna.6247]

Siege turtle does more damage, squashes mobs better, and can carry another person who can fire cannons.  Skyscale is nice when you're flying in or something is in the air that needs to be taken out, but hardly negates the utility of the turtle.  

[genjonah.1253]

One- it was literally first presented as a prestige mount

Two- it also hasn’t- with the exception of the bunny (which does still have the break bar utility), the skyscale still doesn’t do anything as well as the other mounts. Sure, it can do pretty much a part of every other mount, but with the exception of the rabbit, everything else is better at what they do than the skyscale is. Raptor, beetle, griffon, are all faster. Skimmer can go underwater and doesn’t suffer from long distances. Jackal is more maneuverable. Siege turtle hits harder, tanks more, and has the passenger seat. As someone mentioned, it’s a jack-of-all-trades, the second line of that rhyme being ‘master of none’, ending with ‘but better than a master of one’

[Omega.6801]

The turtle was always useless.

[idpersona.3810]

The Skyscale has only replaced the turtle if you don't pay attention to the actual numbers. Mind you, I don't like the turtle mount, but the OP's take on this is just silly.

From the wiki:
Fireball dmg (with raptor maserty): 3,270
turtle slam dmg (with raptor maserty): 11,898

[Netrizhul.3429]

What Turtle needs that rider should able to use cannon or at least be able to switch to cannon.

[Elricht Kaltwind.8796]

Sometimes things can exist just for variety and fun and there's nothing wrong with that.

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

6 hours ago, Elricht Kaltwind.8796 said:

Sometimes things can exist just for variety and fun and there's nothing wrong with that.

how is making the turtle not unique and obsolete compared to the skyscale (which can now do everything) = fun?

[RagiNagi.1802]

27 minutes ago, Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

how is making the turtle not unique and obsolete compared to the skyscale (which can now do everything) = fun?

Im glad that you are not the golden standard for game design. if you want game without variety - play tetris. 

You can still use the turtle fine, nothing has changed. And as many others have pointed out, the turtle still performs way better damage wise. Turtle was and still is a niche mount. If you have fun with turtle play with it. But don't tell others what they should consider fun.

 

[Trejgon.9367]

10 hours ago, Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

Why take away the one thing the siege turtle did that was unique?

I had no idea that skyscale can now grab a passenger onto it.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

So we gonna ignore again:

The breakbar dmg. 

The ability to move people and teleport people around the map. 

That the siege dmg doesn't use Ammo. 

 

I'm will continue to use the turtle every single day. 

 

[Zok.4956]

12 hours ago, Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

Why take away the one thing the siege turtle did that was unique?

Nothing has been taken away from the siege turtle, you can still use it as before and it is just as effective as before.

The only truly unique thing about the siege turtle is the fact that it is a two-player mount, which is largely useless as a single-player mount.

The idea of a two-player siege turtle mount sounded good on the drawing board, but it didn't work as expected in the game. One of the many EoD ideas that made it into the game but should have been reworked first.

[Zok.4956]

12 hours ago, Tuna Bandit.3786 said:

Heck even the flame beacon event in newest Meta is ruled by Griffon enthousiasts.

Exactly.

The Griffon was never my favorite mount in the past. But because of the flame beacon event, I brought out my Griffon again and am now having fun with the Griffon.

[Danikat.8537]

12 hours ago, Manpag.6421 said:

It definitely hasn’t. Yes, the skyscale’s coverage as a Jack-of-all-trades has been increased even more, but there’s a reason so many people jump on their turtles in the Nayos meta: the skyscale siege does absolutely pitiful siege damage, something like 1/5–1/4 of a single turtle slam, on a 25s cooldown. You can do it at range without needing a second person, but that’s all it has going for it.

It’s nice that players who just have SotO have a mount that can do siege damage without needing to own EoD or hope someone opens up their turtle seat, but if you have both then turtle will be the optimal choice in almost every situation. The only place where this won’t be true is the Aspenwood meta if you have very few players, where they’re probably a better option than relying on the NPC siege turtles.

I suspect that's why they did it - they wanted to put siege objects into SotO but didn't want players who don't have EoD to be left out, so they added a bit of siege damage to the one mount that's available within the expansion.

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

This is what im talking about how its employee's as I've stated in other threads.. Everyone is saying its fine, or that they will continue to use the turtle or they like the change and it affects nothing in game.   Meanwhile, the reality in game is that whenever there is something to siege I see 95% skyscales spamming fireballs and almost no turtles lol.  So i love how there is this massive disconnect of "100%" of the forum saying its turtles all the way and in game its 95% skyscales being used, which is the point of me bringing up the topic as a thread lol.  I also like how people are saying the turtle is still useful cuz its so tanky..... LOL the skyscale FLIES IN THE AIR, and AVOIDS ALL DAMAGE.

Its like you guys just post on the forums but don't actually play the game, imagine that.

Edited November 16, 2023 by Jumpin Lumpix.6108

[Ashen.2907]

14 minutes ago, Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

This is what im talking about how its employee's as I've stated in other threads.. Everyone is saying its fine, or that they will continue to use the turtle or they like the change and it affects nothing in game.   Meanwhile, the reality in game is that whenever there is something to siege I see 95% skyscales spamming fireballs and almost no turtles lol.  So i love how there is this massive disconnect of "100%" of the forum saying its turtles all the way and in game its 95% skyscales being used, which is the point of me bringing up the topic as a thread lol.  I also like how people are saying the turtle is still useful cuz its so tanky..... LOL the skyscale FLIES IN THE AIR, and AVOIDS ALL DAMAGE.

Its like you guys just post on the forums but don't actually play the game, imagine that.

The possibility that people might choose to self handicap by using the inferior option for siege damage does not support your position. 

Edited November 16, 2023 by Ashen.2907

[Danikat.8537]

1 minute ago, Ashen.2907 said:

The fact that people are choosing to self handicap by using the inferior option for siege damage, does not support your position. 

Considering all the complaints about the process of unlocking the turtle, combined with the skyscale being made easier to get in SotO it may not be a choice, they might only have the skyscale. Although there are also people who don't seem to like swapping mounts and will stick to one (often the skyscale) even if it's not the best choice.

But I still encounter people who think you have to win the Dragon's End meta to get the turtle egg, and think that's still very rarely successful (which hasn't been true since the first week), then hear you have to do a strike as well and give up completely.

I think it's a bit like equipment, although more visible. I bet there's also a lot of people doing the Nayos meta in exotics with mis-matched or missing upgrades, not because they think it's better than a full set of matching ascended armour but because it's 'good enough' and it's what they've already got so they don't think it's worth the hassle of upgrading.

[Ashen.2907]

2 minutes ago, Danikat.8537 said:

Considering all the complaints about the process of unlocking the turtle, combined with the skyscale being made easier to get in SotO it may not be a choice, they might only have the skyscale. Although there are also people who don't seem to like swapping mounts and will stick to one (often the skyscale) even if it's not the best choice.

Sure, but that is still a choice, a decision to self handicap. 

[Healix.5819]

23 minutes ago, Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

Meanwhile, the reality in game is that whenever there is something to siege I see 95% skyscales spamming fireballs and almost no turtles lol.

That was true before fireball was a thing. People used to use waystations to break the walls in Gyala, while only a few used the turtle.

[Manpag.6421]

53 minutes ago, Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

also like how people are saying the turtle is still useful cuz its so tanky..... LOL the skyscale FLIES IN THE AIR, and AVOIDS ALL DAMAGE.

Its like you guys just post on the forums but don't actually play the game, imagine that.

“Avoids all damage” is a stretch there, especially in newer content which is understandably balanced around skyscale more and more. The skyscale can put itself out of range of a lot of damage while in the air, but anything with ranged attacks can still hit it, not to mention airborne enemies like the Kryptis turrets. A lot of ground-targeted AoE skills used by mobs have a decent vertical range to them that you can’t see, too. Part of what makes the turtle tankier is not just its health, but the fact that the jackal’s Adroit Evasion mastery gives you actual evade frames when using your jets on the turtle, which you don’t get on skyscale just flying around because you aren’t using endurance for that.

I’m a bit confused though, because you say you like EoD, don’t want skyscale to have something the turtle has, yet you don’t seem to actually like or use the turtle either by the way you shoot down anyone pointing out that it still has a niche. Even if you do end up in events where most people are just sitting on their skyscale instead of using the turtle, if you get yours out then often other people start switching to it as well.

[Trejgon.9367]

1 hour ago, Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

This is what im talking about how its employee's as I've stated in other threads..

The saga of "everyone who disagrees is AN employee continues 😄

1 hour ago, Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

Everyone is saying its fine, or that they will continue to use the turtle or they like the change and it affects nothing in game.

That is not exactly what everyone's been saying tho. What people have been saying is that the ability of skyscale to deal some small amount of siege damage does not invalidate turtle, as turtle is still better at siege damage, and has over advantages, and factors unique to itself.

1 hour ago, Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

Meanwhile, the reality in game is that whenever there is something to siege I see 95% skyscales spamming fireballs and almost no turtles lol.

In-game reality is that whatever you will be trying to do, grand most of players will use skyscale, because it is a very convenient mount package in general. In case of specifically Road to Heitor meta stage where you need to siege down the gate, skyscale can get faster into the action since it can be mounted in combat, meaning you do not have to shred combat state from the previous state to start blasting.

Speaking of in-game reality, everytime I do Road to Heitor meta, I am always seeing turtles at that particular stage - sure less of them (not surprising since one turtle enables two players to do the thing alone, and there may be substantial amount of SotO playerbase not having turtle at all) but they are always present.

1 hour ago, Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

So i love how there is this massive disconnect of "100%" of the forum saying its turtles all the way and in game its 95% skyscales being used, which is the point of me bringing up the topic as a thread lol.

So you are loving the disconnect between your imagined perception of how thread is going, with your perception of reality of the game, funny that.

1 hour ago, Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

I also like how people are saying the turtle is still useful cuz its so tanky..... LOL the skyscale FLIES IN THE AIR, and AVOIDS ALL DAMAGE.

For "avoiding all damage" I sure do see alot of people being blasted out of the air on skyscales, I also definitelly get hit on my skyscale way too often. Also shows, you never tried to use skyscale in Draconis Mons, otherwise you'd know that pocket raptors on that map are effectively surface to air missiles 🙂

1 hour ago, Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

Its like you guys just post on the forums but don't actually play the game, imagine that.

In your place I would be careful with pulling that argument. Alot of your statements leaves a big room of bouncing it back at you. Just saying.