Expanded Weapon Proficiencies Beta Feedback: Necromancer

[Matt H.6142]

I found this to be a great compliment to reaper with the chill/fear with the non-shroud mobility it grants.  No notes.

[ViolentMuffin.9573]

Swords seem cool, nice action-oriented skills. I'd like to see the skill effects be sleeker. Now they're very loud and messy - the explosions of feathers and energy waves are huge and they just look like blurbs of colour. I love huge jaws though.

Tooltips for skill 1 go over the screen, I'd try to make them more concise.

Edited December 2, 2023 by ViolentMuffin.9573

[Xainou.1502]

My 2 cents: The skills overall feel kind of sluggish compared to what I'm used to.

 

Sword mainhand seems fine, I love that we got a ranged option and a dash on it.

Sword offhand, not a fan. Skill 4 downright gives me motion sickness if cast too close, ew. Something about those explosion effect going inwards really doesn't feel good on the eyes.
Sword 5 is alright I guess. A slow moving ball of doom doesn't feel like it should be a blade skill though.

[mirage.8046]

While much faster than greatsword, it certainly doesn't feel impactful for the skills. 

Sword 3 could be an evasive leap or grant you might or vigor per enemy struck.
Sword 4 is awkward to use with the ground-targeted ability; I found myself missing out on using the flipover skill too often.
Sword 5 is okay, but anyone can see the orb and strafe, which creates a high-risk, low-reward scenario. Maybe make these skills unblockable or grant bonuses if you activate them.

Swords in general do too little damage or have unsatisfying utility for the payoffs. 
Perhaps sword 5 makes you dash to your foe and fear them at your landing point, akin to specter's dawn's repose. In this way, it can be defensive or offensive How about some fury on these skills? Poor necro has no access to this boon without running curses, dread, midnight king relic, or one of 2 elixirs if you're a harbinger.

[Sjentra.3409]

As a necro main; couple of notes:

1.  Health sacrifice budget needs to be recalculated entirely; not sure if they replaced a comma with a decimal or what but if I'm sacrificing 3K health i better be doing minimum 10k-15k strike damage; not 3k.
2. Sword after cast needs to go. even with quickness a full auto attack chain still takes 1.6 seconds. 2.3 seconds without quickness. 
3. The final swing should not be the slowest because then it's too easy to cancel the final attack
4. All the flip skills feel terrible to use they should be insta-cast (off GCD) like shouts or just remove them entirely.
5. Where's the lifeforce gain? 
6. 4/Hungering maelstrom: 1 second cast time?
7. 5/Devouring Visage: 5k health for a fear? Also range should be like 2k so you have time to figure out if you want to recall it or not. Or make it like GS #5 on guardian where they have like 10 seconds to actually use the flip skill

[JadenSimic.3941]

PvE-wise:

Pros:

• Great concept! The animations and executions of the skills are really cool!
• The option to do ranged power dps.

Cons:

• For such offensive weapons the offense simply isn't there. I would expect the swords to hit much harder, especially when we are sacrificing health to use their full potential. It would be great if the dmg could be tuned up and the self-dmg tuned down.
• Ranged attacks are very slow which makes this feel like a fake ranged weapon as you basically need to stay melee to avoid this. Not sure if feature or bug.
• Complete absence of combo finishers or combo fields.
• No defense. I could see Path of Gluttony/Gorge have some evade time incorporated.
• When Consume is activated it recalls the orb instantly, preventing it from covering the full distance, which can easily result in neither of the attacks hitting their target.
• Chaining the skills feels clunky. Despite pressing the buttons repeatedly to insta-proc the flipped versions of the skills autoattacks still tend to squeeze in.

Edited December 3, 2023 by JadenSimic.3941

[AquaBR.9250]

Sword 3 feels out of place, heres a very unique suggestion:

Sword 3: You throw your sword into the target area, for the next seconds  the skills 1 2 and 3 change

skill 3/1 you pull the sword back to you spinning, it deal high damage to everything in its path

skill 3/2 you teleport to the sword and grab it

skill 3/3 a burst of energy explodes from the sword pushing enemies away from it

hope you guys read this

[ShadowCatz.8437]

7 hours ago, AquaBR.9250 said:

Sword 3 feels out of place, heres a very unique suggestion:

Sword 3: You throw your sword into the target area, for the next seconds  the skills 1 2 and 3 change

skill 3/1 you pull the sword back to you spinning, it deal high damage to everything in its path

skill 3/2 you teleport to the sword and grab it

skill 3/3 a burst of energy explodes from the sword pushing enemies away from it

hope you guys read this

Having three skill on one key (Sword #3) will probably cause even more problem as it would need not to be interrupted by any other skill, not to time out if you have too long activation time in between each skill and then you have the issue with resource management which is your Health Pool (ATM). Especially skills that ArenaNet deem to be powerful would most likely have a high cost in form of sacrificing Health and it could also lead to issues with how Life Siphoning or Life Force work based on how each skill will work. Getting a short reduction in HP might not be that dangerous if you have group with high enough Regeneration, but for single player that would mean to get too fast in dangerous low HP while doing Story content or any other content where you don't need to be in a group or want to be forced to be in a group (and here we have to remember that range does also matter as some players can provide support when they are stacked, but as fast you will get out of range then you suddenly are in this situation as you would be like a single player).

Another issue here is what kind of Teleport that would be done, would it be based on ground based elements where obstacles can negate any teleport or if it even possible to make a teleport skill that in way you can teleport up or down (when there is a small elevation between PC and target from ground to target). Should this skill even be able to cross smaller gap or need check for pathway before you can activate this skill?

Some skills in game that teleport skills or Leaps are very depending on having a target (in range) or that there is landmass that is without any gaps or obstacles before you can use that skill. I don't know how many times since Mesmer and Elementalist had their utility skill changed so you can not make any jumps across gaps and also need a target to get any where, which make these skills rather useless in WvW to get away when you get under pressure.

Then we have to problem with when you finally land on or in range of target, how do one avoid to get stuck when a CC will happen? WillBender have at least Aegis combined with Stability from movement skills on profession skills which reduce some of this. (One reason why WvW player dislike WB so much as it can avoid to get trapped in CC or getting hit with skills that will do CC).

All in all we need suggestion that are more realistic as I would suspect it would very fast become another skill that will over perform and later will have a series of nerf to stay in line with the combat philosophies of this game.

Edited December 3, 2023 by ShadowCatz.8437

[FalsePromises.6398]

Necromancer swords are a bit painful. Damage was way too low, animations are buggy, health costs are awkward and large, and cast times are way too long. The damage was on par with necromancer axe, the laughing stock of the class's arsenal that has an entirely different niche for burst and isn't meant for sustained damage. Literally, I tested axe/sword camping vs sword/sword camping and hit the same DPS, which is rather sad because necro doesn't need a second mainhand axe. All this and both were beaten by greatsword autoattack DPS alone. One reason was just bad power scaling and coefficients, but that's been a common theme. The sword skills themselves had long cast times and disruptive aftercasts: this was most prevalent on skill 2 and 4, but also on autoattacks. The autoattacks could not progress until the previous projectile either dissipated or hit, meaning you lost up to 35% total DPS (yes, I tested it) between melee range and max range. Going further, the sword skills' casts were too long and the effects too delayed for a practical ranged set. Sword 2 initial cast was fine, but the second cast was way too long for an effect that honestly could be ingrained into the initial skill, plus it seemed to cause an aftercast that may have been intended to force you to wait till the projectile finished moving till you casted the flip, but just resulted in disruptive, wasted time. Same was for the 4 skill, except the 4 skill had a long initial cast too. The five skill's flip effect was so useless that it felt like it could be thrown into the base skill as well, if it's literally just a fear. Lastly... not sure what was thematically supposed to be going on with sword 3. Sword 3 doesn't really fit anything: just a tad too short range for a solid mobility skill, doesn't do enough damage for a dive skill, and above all is a melee gap closer on a ranged set. I just don't think it fits, and all the goobers that pester devs for mobility on necromancer frankly just don't get that they're supposed to be pulling and debilitating enemies instead of chasing them. 

Swords left a LOT to be desired, but they weren't wholly bad: there was a nice concept of cast and forget damage as well as a good kite weapon. However, if this was the aim of the weapons, they should have their cast times adjusted and their flip skills merged into the initial attacks after a delay, and then have the damage scaled up. If burst becomes a problem, convert it into ticking damage like the fifth skill.

[draxynnic.3719]

One does wonder if the sword auto slowing down when the enemy is further away might be deliberate? If ArenaNet wanted sword to be a weapon that could be used at range but which benefits from being closer in - which is a common necromancer theme, for better or worse - it's a means of doing so without having skills that are explicitly point-blank range.

[Toraseishin.1932]

This weapon set finally inspired me to boost a necromancer! I had a lot of fun with the dual swords during beta - mainly playing Reaper in open world.
Some general thoughts:

• Damage seemed a bit low for a power weapon. The flip-over skills should definitely have more payoff considering the health cost.
• Loved the animations overall - especially skill 1 (auto) and skill 5. Skills 3 and 4 could use a little fine-tuning for aesthetic cohesion (with the kit) and uniqueness to set the swords apart from other weapons.
• Desperately needs access to combo-finishers.

Specific skill thoughts:

• Skill 1:  Auto 3 delay felt a tad bit slow, but I actually wouldn't mind it as much if that last hit was more impactful. Otherwise it's a fluid auto chain with great animations - including character movements. I also liked the chill on auto 3.
• Skill 2:  I liked this skill, but the flip-over ("Satiate") felt the least impactful to me - both in damage and visuals. I couldn't tell if I had even used the skill at times without looking down at my skill bar to see the cooldown xD
• Skill 3:  This skill felt good. Decent damage, great healing, love the mobility. The leap animation was fine, but the effect colors were kinda muddy and muted compared to the vibrant greens in the other skills. Great in function, but visually "meh". 
• Skill 4:  The ground target and long cast time of "Hungering Maelstrom" made this skill feel super clunky, broke the flow of combat and was difficult to land. Visually, it was missing the "maelstrom" part of the skill name.  
• Skill 5:  Loved this skill both in visuals and function.

I'm really looking forward to playing with this kit again in February and seeing what improvements will be made! I'll leave the more technical feedback to the experienced necro mains 😋
 

[Shadowmoon.7986]

Locking a good skill behind a bad skill = two bad skills. Can you please remove life steal from focus and warhorn, and make those offhands strike damage only so we can have at least 1 good offhand power weapon that is not a meme instead of 3 meme weapons.

[Warlock.7136]

from my beta testing i find sword/sword necro,pistol/pistol guard and mace/mace ranger tested the best. what did you like and why?

[Chrome.6798]

This is from a PvP Standpoint. Necro Sword/Sword felt good animation wise but lacked the DPS it so needed Axe/Focus still is the better option for DPS but this is the feedback channel so please listen to my pleas. Make the sword 5 skill preduce quickness and please for the love of god make the skills track its target... you can just side step everything felt so clunky and out of place when every i would try to burst a target i stayed staff the rest of my games most of the time cause sword sword couldnt do anything

[ZDragon.3046]

THE OVERALL CONCEPT IS PRETTY SOLID ITS GOT A GOOD BASE FOUNDATION NECRO ACTUALLY NEEDS THESE.

Necro has no power ranged weapon that can output sustained dps so the swords being power dps was a perfect fit no arguments with the choice.

General Notes

As a necromancer main I expected the swords to be slow as thematic with every necromancer weapon to be slower than they are on just about every other base profession however in this case i feel they are currently a bit too slow and additional some skills have too much aftercast.

Skills 2,3,4,and 5 do not nicely flow between autos a lot of the times im smashing the key to force the skill to go off and the character It feels a bit clunky unlike other weapons that have had more polish.

To be clear i know numbers will be adjusted and this was a beta but i feel that numbers will actually be the most important factor for these weapons as the foundation and initial concept of the role they are aiming to fill is actually solid and warranted.  I am not expecting these swords to replace GS as the main power based weapon but I am expecting them to feel decent as a back bar / ranged power weapon right now the numbers on all fronts make them not worth using.

Visual/ Mechanical notes

The auto chain looks fine and overall for beta visuals most of them worked fine. Skill 3 and4 are probably the skills that visually are just not tasteful at all barely fitting. I am not a fan however of the swords attacks being ground based projectiles meaning they they do not actually fly through the air. They flow along the ground and can move down terrain but not up terrain there will be certain instances where these weapons wont be usable as a result of that however if this cannot be changed its not the end of the world but its worth mentioning. 

Skill notes

Skill 1 recommendations (the auto chain)

Skill 1 (the auto combo) hit 1 is instant but has a massive amount of after cast, so much after cast infact that the gap between hit 1 and hit 2  is larger than both the gap between hit 2 and 3 and hit 3 looing back to the start of the auto chain. This makes the weapon feel very awkward to even just auto attack with. This gap additionally makes the swords feel a tad bit worse at range as the attack speed feels slightly slower when you are at range vs right on a targets face. 

hit1 - reduce the after cast > hit 2 - reduce the cast to 1/4 second > hit 3 the cast can remain 3/4 second however make sure the damage is worth the cast time.

Skill 2 recommendations

The cast times on skill 2 are fine as they are the damage on the first activation is ok my issue is with the reactivation. The reactivation deals half the damage of the intial activation at the cost of hp but then goes up to the same amount of damage if the target is under 50% hp. This generally does not feel good its not mechanically fun you dont feel like you are gaining anything because you technically are losing for the first 50% of any combat situation. 

The second activation should be = to the first activations damage total with the additional benefit of having the 50% building a nerf into the skill is not fun grave digger having the bonus under 50% feels like a pure gain because you dont feel like you are losing out on using the skill above 50% proc where as the sword just feels like a waste of hp if the second activation is going to be half damage until the proc kicks in.

Skill 3 recommendations.

The animation lock does not feel great. I suggest making this attack a dash similar to teh guardian offhand sword or the rev sword 5 which blinks you to the target if you have one selected where it ends when you reach the target this would flow nicer and combo with other skills far better. Overall the main issue with this skill is the long animation lock. The hp cost for reactivation is ok but consider adding additional damage in pve only against targets that have no boons.

Skill 4 recommendations.

THE CAST TIME IS WAY TO LONG AND NOT WORTH THE DAMAGE you just generally are better off autoing rather than using this skill. The cast time being reduced to 3/4 of a second or half a second would be more ideal. 1 second cast times just dont feel good in todays version of the game even more so when the damage is not worth it. While I do understand its aoe its just generally too slow for the damage it deals. The reactivation is also too costly and generally not worth using.  Again the slow animation and after cast even with quickness does not allow this skill to flow well into the auto attacks and most of the other sword skills and feels clunky some polish is needed here.

Skill 5 recommendations

The initial activation is ok its pretty fast and feels fine to activate however the damage ticks from the orb are too slow. So slow infarct that on a target that is not moving will have one of the 3 hits often miss as the orb is out of range (or so consistently saw this attack proc the miss) text against targets that were close when i used it..  The reactivation has no damage attached and for 5k hp the fear alone is not worth it. Consider adding the damage a damage burst on activation which can make the hp cost worth it in pve while keeping the skill mainly focused on cc in competitive where the burst damage value can be reduced as all other cc's are. 

Closing remarks and TLDR

Nice you filled a solid missing niche for necro with this weapon unlike some of the other weapons this one feels like it has a very solid starting place.

The sword needs polish with its cast times, after cast, and combo potential.

If we must lock necromancer into having the thematic hp consumption or slow attacks with heavy damage thats fine but les chose 1 or the other not both at the same time both going into 2024 feels bad. I think it would be far worth keeping the hp cost for extensive damage but letting the swords be a bit faster for combative flow.

[AquaBR.9250]

On 12/3/2023 at 1:30 PM, ShadowCatz.8437 said:

Having three skill on one key (Sword #3) will probably cause even more problem as it would need not to be interrupted by any other skill, not to time out if you have too long activation time in between each skill and then you have the issue with resource management which is your Health Pool (ATM). Especially skills that ArenaNet deem to be powerful would most likely have a high cost in form of sacrificing Health and it could also lead to issues with how Life Siphoning or Life Force work based on how each skill will work. Getting a short reduction in HP might not be that dangerous if you have group with high enough Regeneration, but for single player that would mean to get too fast in dangerous low HP while doing Story content or any other content where you don't need to be in a group or want to be forced to be in a group (and here we have to remember that range does also matter as some players can provide support when they are stacked, but as fast you will get out of range then you suddenly are in this situation as you would be like a single player).

Another issue here is what kind of Teleport that would be done, would it be based on ground based elements where obstacles can negate any teleport or if it even possible to make a teleport skill that in way you can teleport up or down (when there is a small elevation between PC and target from ground to target). Should this skill even be able to cross smaller gap or need check for pathway before you can activate this skill?

Some skills in game that teleport skills or Leaps are very depending on having a target (in range) or that there is landmass that is without any gaps or obstacles before you can use that skill. I don't know how many times since Mesmer and Elementalist had their utility skill changed so you can not make any jumps across gaps and also need a target to get any where, which make these skills rather useless in WvW to get away when you get under pressure.

Then we have to problem with when you finally land on or in range of target, how do one avoid to get stuck when a CC will happen? WillBender have at least Aegis combined with Stability from movement skills on profession skills which reduce some of this. (One reason why WvW player dislike WB so much as it can avoid to get trapped in CC or getting hit with skills that will do CC).

All in all we need suggestion that are more realistic as I would suspect it would very fast become another skill that will over perform and later will have a series of nerf to stay in line with the combat philosophies of this game.

Theres already tons of teleports that are like that, i dont see you complaining about those, there are alot of skills that have second skill in it, axes too have a projectile that you can back, and ele have tons of abilities ta explode in a point, nothing you said made any sense, either you are new to the game or you hate new and creative things for no reason.

 

My suggestion is very realistic, theres no way this can overperform, they are 3 different options in one skill, OH, are you thinking i said you could use the 3 skills in one go? Nonono you chose one of the three.

[Maekrix Waere.2087]

1 hour ago, AquaBR.9250 said:

Theres already tons of teleports that are like that, i dont see you complaining about those, there are alot of skills that have second skill in it, axes too have a projectile that you can back, and ele have tons of abilities ta explode in a point, nothing you said made any sense, either you are new to the game or you hate new and creative things for no reason.

 

My suggestion is very realistic, theres no way this can overperform, they are 3 different options in one skill, OH, are you thinking i said you could use the 3 skills in one go? Nonono you chose one of the three.

The only thing in the game even remotely like what you are suggesting is Dragon Trigger, which is a highly self-contained move/stance that an entire elite spec is built around.  The idea of basically remaking the Sword 3 that we have right now to have a new move that you throw out and then it basically puts you in a mini-dragon trigger where you're locked out of every single other skill on the weapon until you pick one of three more special new moves just isn't realistic.

Yes, I think sword 3 needs to be changed, but we need to be reasonable, here.  You're asking for four new moves!  That's not refinement, that's an entirely new weapon.

[Eekasqueak.7850]

Just bumping up the numbers and making the projectiles more consistent seems like the most realistic changes we'll get. 

[Phyb.6704]

Personally when using swords, reaper, magi gear and lyr relic its honestly some amazing self sustain support since you can just sponge up dmg and spam barrier + heals + shroud. Just dont use the 2nd hit of a skill that uses hp. Stock the barrier with blood magic reaper spec. The animations are kinda ugly and there is some buggy stuff to it but it is good. Asking for more damage is like asking for more damage on rev's staff. Its obviously something not meant to do much dmg. 

Edited December 6, 2023 by ohericoseo.4316

[Josif.2015]

Necromancer using one sword would've been fine, similar to weaver, but it wasn't necessary to use two swords. Here are my thoughts on the weapons:

Enervation Blade, Enervation Echo, Deathly Enervation (sword 1): reduce the chill duration on Deathly Enervation from 2.5 to 1 second.
Ravenous Wave (sword 2): reduce the life force.
Gorge (sword 3): reduce the boon corrupted from 2 to 1 and remove the life cost.
Gormandize (sword 4): remove the chilled condition and increase the additional damage dealt.
Consume (sword 5): make the orb of death magic detonate instead of traveling back to the necromancer.

[kroof.5468]

List of tooltip suggestions for visualization: Necromancer Sword Ideas

Overall I enjoyed my time with Necro Swords. I did find some of the cast times and animations to feel slow. My biggest area of concern was in the sacrifice flip-overs as they felt very underwhelming for the most part. Buffing these sacrifice skills could make it worthwhile. I also enjoy the concept of leaning into Strike Damage Over Time instead of purely Condition Damage. The use of this on the 5th skill is cool, and could maybe be implemented on the main-hand sword as well. 

Suggestions:
Satiate: Have this sacrifice skill apply damage over time, to keep damage rolling while cycling through all the animations and cast times tied with these skills. 
Gormandize: Needs a bigger punch, maybe in damage or adding an additional condition. Could also see this generate Life Force.
Consume: Having this refresh the ticking damage on the 5th skill would just make it more worth while to press. Though, I do love the fear on this ability.  

[Greymantle.9168]

Kind of late to the party, but I wouldn't be mad if the sword attacks healed others in their path, some what like the druid staff auto. My necro never needed that much healing in pve or wvw, because of the builds I chose, so the sword/sword healing seemed almost trivial to my character...but to others, it could be a great boon.

[Phyb.6704]

On 12/9/2023 at 1:45 PM, kroof.5468 said:

List of tooltip suggestions for visualization: Necromancer Sword Ideas

Overall I enjoyed my time with Necro Swords. I did find some of the cast times and animations to feel slow. My biggest area of concern was in the sacrifice flip-overs as they felt very underwhelming for the most part. Buffing these sacrifice skills could make it worthwhile. I also enjoy the concept of leaning into Strike Damage Over Time instead of purely Condition Damage. The use of this on the 5th skill is cool, and could maybe be implemented on the main-hand sword as well. 

Suggestions:
Satiate: Have this sacrifice skill apply damage over time, to keep damage rolling while cycling through all the animations and cast times tied with these skills. 
Gormandize: Needs a bigger punch, maybe in damage or adding an additional condition. Could also see this generate Life Force.
Consume: Having this refresh the ticking damage on the 5th skill would just make it more worth while to press. Though, I do love the fear on this ability.  

Basically. Sacrifice needs to give more of a pay off and have little to no cooldown. If a necro runs blood bank they can easily regnardless of elite spec... keep barrier stacked on themself. The "glutton for punishment" Means nothing when we have so much self sustain. The current sacrifice is like pinching a necro. Its not really worth it. We can take far larger hits and larger pay off. Can the damage and sacrifice be % based or something? 

[XECOR.2814]

Sword #5 
It needs to have higher range to allow enough time to call it back with flip-over skill and for general convenience of use too.
I would assume 1200range should be appropriate.
It needs to have fear on both initial and flip-over cast. Even if you increase the strike damage, a slow moving >>projectile<< on 900 range can never be justified in necromancer kit as worth taking just for damage.

Either that or fear on initial cast and immobilize on flip over so we can combo it with sword#3 or sword#4 afterwards.

Sword#4
Reduce after cast, animation cleanup, should hit harder in terms of strike damage.

Sword#3 
Add leap finisher for both cast and it should hit harder in terms of strike damage. You can remove corrupts for all I care.

Sword#2
Should hit way harder in terms of strike damage.

Sword#1 Chain
Reduce after cast on each skill in the chain(important). Should hit way harder in terms of strike damage.

General
Swords in general need an additional aspect to it. I would suggest adding self might to the initial casts and vulnerability to enemies on flip over skills.
The chill effect is mostly useless tbh. It's just padding in un-useful power to justify power budget for each skill. Similar case for corrupts on sword#3 leap.
It doesn't serve any purpose to that play style because you have nothing to follow up with.
You dont have the boons on the weapons to stay in melee range no does the class has utilities that allow that.
It would be a laughable attempt to try to corrupt stability in gw2 2023 by just 2 boon corrupts not to mention on a class and kit which is extremely susceptible to cc, blinds, blocks and other movement impairing conditions and in general susceptible against multiple enemies.

Edited December 28, 2023 by XECOR.2814

[draxynnic.3719]

16 hours ago, XECOR.2814 said:

The chill effect is mostly useless tbh. It's just padding in un-useful power to justify power budget for each skill. 

I suspect it's there in part because they view it as a ranged option for reapers, and reapers have multiple possible synergies with the chilled condition.