Can we get a weekly raid for wizards vault?

[Artemis.8034]

I want to touch back on a few things. people raid because its want they find fun, just like there are people that find OW fun or doing every side story or achievement hunting or player vs player. Whats great about mmos is they have a good variety of gamemodes to suit everyone. And there is a decent raid base and a decent amount of newer people to raids that merit having a part in the WV activities. Most of the people i know have all the leggies armors and weapons and trinkets, they dont raid for that, they raid because its an enjoyable mode of gameplay for them. And many new players want to get into it i have new people looking to join a raid all the time. The problem is many coms have left the game because of the abandonment of raids, and new people dont feel comfortable leading something they know little about. there are groups that take on new raiders and teach them but you have to seek them out.

I think a healthy game can carry its gamemodes for variety and not abandoned them. And i think a healthy playerbase accepts that people have varied interests in the game. I have never tried to shut out a mode of gameplay in a game because i dont do it or like it. I think thats the worst kind of selfish elitism there is, i raid its my favorite aspect in games. I like instanced content dungeons raids fracts and all the world bosses you can do public or private. I even pushed for OW leggy armor even though i have the pve leggy sets. because i feel people should be able to gain things through their favorite type of gamemode. Which is why im asking for this, not to usurp anyone else's gamemode choice, but as an aside to it for those of us that enjoy the raids. I really hope anet considers it , and i really hope the player base understands no one is trying to take your stuff away or force you into anything. Its all optional, but for some its doing their favorite thing in GW2.

[Astralporing.1957]

On 12/8/2023 at 2:51 PM, Biziut.3594 said:

There is Strikes/Fractals dailies/weeklies already. Is this annoying for the solo players as well?

For Strikes there's Shiverpeaks. For Fractals there are T1s. There's nothing comparable for Raids however. Now, if there was a true easy mode...

On 12/8/2023 at 2:51 PM, Biziut.3594 said:

Other important question is that should devs cater more to solo players in a multiplayer game instead of the (idk how to call them... normal players?)

I'd say that more important question is why should they cater to group of players they have already decided to stop catering to long ago, when they abandoned further raid developments due to said group being way too small for their liking?

[Biziut.3594]

5 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

For Strikes there's Shiverpeaks. For Fractals there are T1s. There's nothing comparable for Raids however. Now, if there was a true easy mode...

Escort and River of Souls are there as well. Apart from that it would't take place of the Fractal/Strike, it would be totally new objective, one that you can, but do not have to do. Last but not least, the guys problem, and the answer to it You quoted was, not wanting to do ANY content that required other players, becouse he apperently things that all dailies should be soloable. So I wasn't talking about skill issue or difficulty but about the social aspect that both raids and fractals/strikes have.

5 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

I'd say that more important question is why should they cater to group of players they have already decided to stop catering to long ago, when they abandoned further raid developments due to said group being way too small for their liking?

Didn't know there were so many players playing "activities" than raids. But thats beyond the point, the point is, that You missed the topic of my conversation with this guy. I wasn't there screaming "RAID part of community is big and deserve their own daily", I was saying that this game is a multiplayer game, and as much as I like to solo stuff myself, in my opinion the main target of MMO are players that like to play "together" instead of solo, be it raids, fractals, metas, dungeons, no matter. We were discussing totally diffrent thing than You try to force twist here. Don't know if it's on purpose, so please before quoting me, do read my conversations twice.

Lastly I'll just say that WV goal was probably not (judging from other objectives) only to bring peoples to already popular content, to encourage them to dip into fractals, strikes and various metas. It was also made with intention to pump some blood into abandoned content that not much players play anymore, like less known JP's, minidungeons and activities I mentioned before. And just as You said...

5 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

when they abandoned further raid developments due to said group being way too small 

... so if they are so abandoned, than raids are too a perfect objective to put into Wizard Vault.

[TheNurgle.4825]

56 minutes ago, Biziut.3594 said:

Didn't know there were so many players playing "activities" than raids.

Did we get any new "activity" in last 7-8 years? I don't think so.

59 minutes ago, Biziut.3594 said:

as much as I like to solo stuff myself, in my opinion the main target of MMO are players that like to play "together" instead of solo, be it raids, fractals, metas, dungeons, no matter.

You are correct that MMOs were meant for group play and cooperation/interaction between players. I do not know when, but at one point it became "play next to other ppl". From that point we are going to that direction.

[zeyeti.8347]

18 hours ago, TheNurgle.4825 said:

Comparing raids and WvW is like comparing apples and ananas. Instanced content where you need to have group of ppl or WvW where you can play alone and even be afk and still getting rewards.

It's a game we are comparing fun to unfun  , who here have fun being afk ? on the other side ppl may enter a raid with some trainee and discover a content they were told about was very difficult and discover it's not true , they are capable off , comparing apples and ananas as you said , yes they are both fruits , ty mate , it doesnt taste the same but you can both have them at the supermarket and they mix very well in a fruit salad !

 

18 hours ago, TheNurgle.4825 said:

Also I almost forgot that raids are limited to HoT and PoF so would not really worked for ppl without HoT or PoF.

You know your dailys are adapted for what content you have ? if you don't earn end of dragon , you sure you will never get spirit vestibule as daily ... that's has been implanted ... mmmm i think when the game started doing dailys , ...

 

18 hours ago, TheNurgle.4825 said:

Weekly could make sense, but you get back to LFG tool issues and different expectations

The problem with the lfg is that raids are mostly a static thing or a guild thing , but again the currency is far enough to have what you want , another solution could have been adding a new tab 'pve'wvw'pvp'endgame pve' 

[zeyeti.8347]

And for diffciculty of raids , you have wing 3 notoriously hard "escort glenna boss" or Cairn , who is basically a pinata with one or two mechanics , conjugate amalgamed from wing 6 is pretty easy too , you just need two players who know the mechanics of shield and sword and good to go.

At Nurgle : for your example about wvw , i just go from a camp to another camp , cleaning the same packs of mobs waiting for the main guard to loose it's invulnerability , you think i have fun ? no it's a chore , but i accept it as in a mmo there will be things you don't like to do you need to do for this or that , same apllys to raids ... you don't like group instanced content ? ok ! But there are ppl who like em , and ppl stopped complaining about raids reward because it was being redundant , but every raid enjoyer here will agree the rewards are crap once you have done your legis , your Li serve of nothing , just to bolster your ego about kp.me, my guildhall is filled with useless "pieces of boss encounters" , you get 2-4 gold , one gold no id/exo/ascended (with luck) and more non id pieces ...  failing Tarir and opening the sole chest area after a fail gives you more than that ! 

 

Edited December 10, 2023 by zeyeti.8347

[zeyeti.8347]

7 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

For Strikes there's Shiverpeaks. For Fractals there are T1s. There's nothing comparable for Raids however. Now, if there was a true easy mode...

I'd say that more important question is why should they cater to group of players they have already decided to stop catering to long ago, when they abandoned further raid developments due to said group being way too small for their liking?

Have you seen the new weapons who will be added to the game ? 5 or more of those weapons are support/heal oriented , who plays support in open world ? there is not a big part of the community who plays hard content ofc , but this also help the game in term of "image given to players" , i will take the example of harvest temple challenge mode who was released to give a big bone to chomp on for hard content enjoyers and this content did his job , gw2 who is not very well known by the Mmo worldwide community had gain in notoriety just because there was a content no squad was able to clear before 4-5 days after release , before that gw 2 was know as the "game for pus sys"(sorry for the bad language) everybody claimed the game was easy and had no interest in a game where you can just AA everything (thats 75% of open world gameplay : you AA everything to death !)

I know some guys from wow hardcore community who have given interest in the game , just to try out harvest temple , so maybe this part of the game has not a big community but anet doing 2 strikes (+cm after x month of release) and 1 new fractale (+cm) once a year, means there is something

Also the day of clearing harvest temple , teapot had a fair large viewers on trough his whole 4-5 days of trys, so this content is not the big part of the game , as wvw and pvp , but those 3 parts play a role in the game wealth. If there is no hard content why add new tools to fight in the game , i mean 75% of the mobs can be killed with a butter knife ...

Edited December 10, 2023 by zeyeti.8347

[Healix.5819]

If they were going to add a raid weekly, they would simply change the strike weekly to a strike or raid.

If they wanted to make it more fun, they would change the complete X objectives to earn X astral with a cap on the total amount you could earn. This would allow for as many objectives as they wanted, having the expansions wouldn't need to replace them, and the amount of astral rewarded could vary to encourage doing harder ones instead of several easy ones.

[Biziut.3594]

28 minutes ago, TheNurgle.4825 said:

You are correct that MMOs were meant for group play and cooperation/interaction between players. I do not know when, but at one point it became "play next to other ppl". From that point we are going to that direction.

I know I'am, glad You agree, my feelings are mutual.

28 minutes ago, TheNurgle.4825 said:

Did we get any new "activity" in last 7-8 years? I don't think so.

What do You mean by this? I am perfectly aware of the state "activities" are in. Astral was making a point that raids don't deserve WV objective becouse they are dead. "Activities" are even more dead and even smaller piece of content and they still have their own objective, and thus, in my opinion, not only raids but also dungeons, JP's and mini dungeons that are not in WV already and all the other forgotten stuff, should have their place in WV as well. Someone made a topic some time ago, about putting Serpent Ire meta into it. This is imo example and a great idea, since almost no one does it and it is required for some achivments and unlocks. Plus, the more variety of stuff we have in WV, the less boring and tedious it will be and will make more forgotten but still fun parts of the game, a little more alive, and thats what I wish for this game. To be fully alive.

[notebene.3190]

I think they need to get rid of the categories (PvE, PvP, etc) altogether.

I think they should add things like this that people dream up, seems fun for people that like to do that.

Caps for Daily / Weekly AA. Right now for Daily we have 5 for 'login', 40 for up to 4 things you can do, and the chest for doing 4 total. Weekly is 8 x 50, plus the chest (if you do 6 of the 8). Okay, that's the cap.

Then just have a pool of stuff to do. This raid idea? Add to the pool. Hug 40 NPCs throughout Tyria? Add to the pool. Make the pool (incoming hyperbole) 500 for dailies and 3,000 for weeklies. You can do 'all' of them. But, you will only get up to 40 AA for 4 things for dailies, and 400 (8x50) for 8 of the weeklies (though you only need do 3 and 6, respectively for the big chest).

Yes, it's not going to be 500 and 3,000. They want it lower so people can focus together on some things, but the larger point is they way they "limit" things based on your perceived type is insane. Yes, they had categories before, but they didn't mean anything. I could go do a few WvW things and a few PvE things in a given day. I just needed to do 4 things (or whatever it was). I wasn't forced into a limited pool of things. That's where the whole thing breaks down and we end up fighting with each other about what should be on the list, because of they way they went full on Starbelly Sneetches on us.

They need to kill the categories, set a cap on available daily/weekly AA earned, but give us a bigger pool of things to do, and then a suggestion like this will be like "yeah, that sounds cool" for everyone.

[TheNurgle.4825]

7 hours ago, zeyeti.8347 said:

It's a game we are comparing fun to unfun  , who here have fun being afk ? on the other side ppl may enter a raid with some trainee and discover a content they were told about was very difficult and discover it's not true , they are capable off , comparing apples and ananas as you said , yes they are both fruits , ty mate , it doesnt taste the same but you can both have them at the supermarket and they mix very well in a fruit salad !

My point was that raids need coordination and other ppl and WvW you can do alone so compare that make no sense. That is like comparing intanced content and meta events.

7 hours ago, zeyeti.8347 said:

You know your dailys are adapted for what content you have ? if you don't earn end of dragon , you sure you will never get spirit vestibule as daily ... that's has been implanted ... mmmm i think when the game started doing dailys , ...

True. Some ppl would see it as being punished as having raid as weekly and others having like minidungeon due to one being easier and faster than other.

7 hours ago, zeyeti.8347 said:

The problem with the lfg is that raids are mostly a static thing or a guild thing , but again the currency is far enough to have what you want , another solution could have been adding a new tab 'pve'wvw'pvp'endgame pve' 

It does not solve raid sellers and that wold make game looking really bad. Also you kind of answered yourself why not to add raids to wizard's vault since "raids are mostly a static thing or guild thing" and to improve that you need ingame improved LFG tool.

In overall group management and LFG tool could use some major improvements like you can not do ready check without tag and tag cost 300gold. There was try to have some kind of better LFG in terms of "Public" option for some instanced content and it works for some content, but not really for other.

[TheNurgle.4825]

7 hours ago, Biziut.3594 said:

"Activities" are even more dead and even smaller piece of content and they still have their own objective, and thus, in my opinion, not only raids but also dungeons, JP's and mini dungeons that are not in WV already and all the other forgotten stuff, should have their place in WV as well.

I worked in SW development and I think that I know why activities are there and other stuff not. You want to add "content" without any additional work and it needs to be easy to finish for everyone. You can "wait out" activity and get credit. I switched to PvP/WvW tasks only, cuz extra 500/500 points for rewards tracks daily and I can finish daily in 15 mins max and all weekly in 2 hours.

[Biziut.3594]

16 minutes ago, TheNurgle.4825 said:

I worked in SW development and I think that I know why activities are there and other stuff not. You want to add "content" without any additional work and it needs to be easy to finish for everyone. You can "wait out" activity and get credit. I switched to PvP/WvW tasks only, cuz extra 500/500 points for rewards tracks daily and I can finish daily in 15 mins max and all weekly in 2 hours.

And what is Your point exactly? Coz I kinda lost track of it.

Do You mean that ANet shouldn't be adding any content to WV, that takes longer than finishing activity coz it would be too long? Or is there some other point I don't see?

[Sobx.1758]

15 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

I'd say that more important question is why should they cater to group of players they have already decided to stop catering to long ago, when they abandoned further raid developments due to said group being way too small for their liking?

Wonder what you have to say about dungeon hub being recently added to LA, sudden dungeon bugfixes and current rush event. Was that content somehow not dropped? Because as far as I understand the reasoning in your post, none of that had any right to happen.

[Randulf.7614]

Add them in every couple of weeks as a special. Repeat every season. Then it's optional and harms no one

[Astralporing.1957]

2 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Wonder what you have to say about dungeon hub being recently added to LA, sudden dungeon bugfixes and current rush event. Was that content somehow not dropped? Because as far as I understand the reasoning in your post, none of that had any right to happen.

Ah, you see, dungeons weren't dopped due to not being popular enough. Dungeons were dropped in order to make them less popular. And one of the reasons for that was to prop up raids. Besides, dungeons are not in the weekly WV, are they.

[Sobx.1758]

8 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Ah, you see, dungeons weren't dopped due to not being popular enough. (...) And one of the reasons for that was to prop up raids.

Anything that makes this more than just your baseless theory?

8 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Besides, dungeons are not in the weekly WV, are they.

Doesn't matter, they were dropped for years and yet they recently made some fixes and changes to those while starting a rush event. 

Quick reminder that the question you asked wasn't specifically about "WV" but about catering to the group of players they have decided to stop catering to long ago.

Edited December 10, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Artemis.8034]

7 hours ago, notebene.3190 said:

They need to kill the categories,

Oh i agree! they should just stop locking us to one or the other. Thats what was nice about the old system, if you wanted to do a wvw then 2 pve objectives you could. It would be nice to be able to pick from different game modes.

[vares.8457]

13 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

your baseless theory

Isn’t that always the case with him

Edited December 11, 2023 by vares.8457

[TheNurgle.4825]

18 hours ago, Biziut.3594 said:

And what is Your point exactly? Coz I kinda lost track of it.

Do You mean that ANet shouldn't be adding any content to WV, that takes longer than finishing activity coz it would be too long? Or is there some other point I don't see?

It was your point 😆. It was that activity is in wizard's vault and raids are not with activity being completly dead and raids kind of dead. So from that point of view it would make more sense to have raids in vault and not activity

 I tried to explain that it is about resources. You need tasks for vault and adding activity cost you nothing as dev with almost zero complains since you can do nothing and finish it. Raids on other hand highlight issue with LFG tool, raid sellers, toxic ppl and so on.

[TheNurgle.4825]

On 12/10/2023 at 11:20 AM, Healix.5819 said:

If they were going to add a raid weekly, they would simply change the strike weekly to a strike or raid.

This is underrated idea. It would show ppl that GW2 has raids with ppl still have option to do strikes. Not best solution, but it is something.

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

19 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Anything that makes this more than just your baseless theory?

Doesn't matter, they were dropped for years and yet they recently made some fixes and changes to those while starting a rush event.

Dungeons were dropped due to technical reasons.  They're hardcoded nonsense meant that changing one thing in one area changed another thing elsewhere.  The most glaring  examples I can think of is the troll in Honor of the Waves that was changed to its current state also changing the troll in Ascalonian catacombs to do the same thing.  It even had drops from Honor of the Waves for a time until that  was changed.   Another are the changes to Malrona in the Up path of Twilight Arbor.  The projectile attack it had was made unblockable  and had the animation timing changed.  This  applied to champion spiders inside Arah and in some open world spiders.  Dungeons were popular, group content was as well  (There was almost always someone in map chat on a map that had a dungeon wantaing to run either story or explorable).  This is why dungeons were dropped in favor of fractals, the other group content there instead of just outright dropping the content with no forseeable replacement.  The reason I can presume is due to this tangled mess of copy/pasted code that could (and would in most cases) change other seemingly unrelated things when modified.

[Biziut.3594]

6 hours ago, TheNurgle.4825 said:

It was your point 😆. It was that activity is in wizard's vault and raids are not with activity being completly dead and raids kind of dead. So from that point of view it would make more sense to have raids in vault and not activity

 I tried to explain that it is about resources. You need tasks for vault and adding activity cost you nothing as dev with almost zero complains since you can do nothing and finish it. Raids on other hand highlight issue with LFG tool, raid sellers, toxic ppl and so on.

I think you might have misunderstood me. I am all in for adding more content and more variations of already existing content to the daily system.

The thing You might've misunderstood was my comparison of Activities to Raids in my conversation with other guy. This guy was opposing the idea of adding raids, becouse they are dead, I said that Activities are even more dead and they are still implementes into WV daily system. Which is a good thing of course becouse new daily sestem is in my opinion a perfect tool to bring players attencion into more forgotten parts of guild wars, like Dungeons, Raids, Activities, ect.

As for resources, and costs in complains, I think it's fair to say that the whole separate daily tab for PvP already highlights the "toxic ppl" you mentioned. Should ANet now delete this part of a daily becouse some peoples in the playerbase might not behave and give them a bad name? Belive it or not but You can meet toxic peoples everywhere, I personally met most of them on Fractals not Raids, but I am aware but it's rather subjective matter, and by all means shouldn't be taken seriously when considering the eventual addition of the Raids into WV system. Apart from that, learning and Raiding in general have been a great and pleasant adventure for me personally, and I belive that it really should be advertised more by adding it to the WV system.

LFG tool is fine in my personal opinion. Never had the problem using it and it always allows me to hop into any content at any time, so I don't really understand your issue with it, and how it should not be highlighted, especially that like in the case of your "toxic ppl" it already is highlighted by Strikes, Fractals and metas that are inside WV system already.

Raid Sellers are not the problem of WV nor are the Raids, it's the problem of the ANet policy. ANet allows peoples to sell runs in this game, altho they do not take responsibility for eventual scams (at least as far as I know). If they would be concerned about Run Selling giving them a bad name, they would simply ban it. It have nothing to do with adding Raids or any content into the WV system.

[hackedraptor.3210]

On 12/4/2023 at 8:13 PM, Wielder Of Magic.3950 said:

This would cause a backlash of massive proportions. 
People heavily dislike being funneled into a gamemode they don't want to do.
It is why WvW was removed from World Completion and it is why we still have complaints about having to do WvW for Gift of Battle.
Fractal: You can hop in on your LA fashion build in a T1 and get your weekly. 
Strikes: Hop naked into Icebrood Construct and collect your reward.
 

No such things for raids.
I understand that you'd like this when you are a regular raider, but do understand that you are part of an utter minority in the game.
 

I hate doing fractals but forced to do that crap for weeklies and dailies. Why cant WvW haters be forced to do WvW?

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

16 minutes ago, hackedraptor.3210 said:

I hate doing fractals but forced to do that crap for weeklies and dailies. Why cant WvW haters be forced to do WvW?

Unfortunately, ANEt defines PvE content as anything that's player versus environment (With one outlier in the Activities).

Personally, I'd love it if there were just more PvE choices in the pool to do for the weekly / daily.  There's already enough Astral Acclaim to get everything in the season, so, you know, the people who are allergic to instanced content can still unlock things.