all the copers have moved to the new fotm, hammer DH [Merged]

[Yasai.3549]

39 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

Thats not what i said, and not what i meant.

I said you need a brain/skill/matchup experience and reflexes good enough to dodge the spear, or stunbreak before getting succed into the traps, in order to beat it. 

 

But dont worry.... Alot of people dont know the difference between boons and actually playing smart. 😉

Why do you think DHs use Hammer and Traps? Because the dumb Spear pull strategy is so easily countered that it's a joke and absolutely not the thing you need to avoid. 
The point of DH Hammer is Hammer 5 Teleport and then start dropping traps which you can't get away from. The only counter to that would be reaction and if you have two evades, you can maybe survive the burst. 

It's not impossible to survive it but I can see why people will yell OP. But your entire spiel about DH F1 is what I was highlighting. 

Edited December 14, 2023 by Yasai.3549

[Sahne.6950]

40 minutes ago, Yasai.3549 said:

It's not impossible to survive it but I can see why people will yell OP. But your entire spiel about DH F1 is what I was highlighting. 

Thanks for clarifying. 

If you are in the roflcombo, and he manged to lock you in a trap.... its looking bleak.  you got caught.   

In this situation you need either a block / a invuln / or stabi. You are right there. 

Luckily almost all builds have access to atleast one of these three things. Its 2023 after all, every build should have a way to get out of this situation. If i can survive the roflcombo on core ele with exactly 0 stab..... you surely can do it too. 

If you dont have a defensive cooldown... you are toast.   Which is true for pretty much every build right now.

I still do not think Hammer guardian is overpowered and needs a nerf.   I mean... its good... 

But far from the best build right now. And even further from being OP. 

It hits hard, but its literally paper, if you learned not to burst into the f3.

 

The current balancing... is... okay...ish...      Id rather not have them fumble around with Guardian.  it will be uber useless when they are done with it... or somehow even stronger than before.     we all know anet by now xD

Hammer is finally seeing some actual play! And i think thats cool!

Just my 2cts tho.

Edited December 14, 2023 by Sahne.6950

[Saiyan.1704]

13 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

I still do not think Hammer guardian is overpowered and needs a nerf.   I mean... its good... 

But far from the best build right now. And even further from being OP. 

It hits hard, but its literally paper, if you learned not to burst into the f3.

I'd like to add that Valk amulet's 22.4k health pool spamming Aegis from 4 traps along with every block being a cleanse, is a very tanky & bursty DH build right now. Very much unforgiving towards zerker classes with low health pools, including some Warriors who don't expect the amount of CC (and damage) it can dish out.

Power Burst Virtuoso & Unblockable boon ripping Necro... sometimes DE... can laughably demolish DH. The fact that DH has hard counters means it's not a God spec... it's just a good spec that the meta hasn't caught up to yet.

Edited December 14, 2023 by Saiyan.1704

[Curennos.9307]

I don't really mind DH overall - you can just proc their traps and wait a bit once you know the DH exists, they no longer have stealth, and even their skills have good tells compared to everyone else even if they try to teleport.

My beef is that they can block and pewpew you while you aren't allowed to use a block because their f1 is unblockable and can be used to yoink you into a trap, so if you're a spec that has a block you can't use it to wait out their block/pewpew. Or, well, you can but you'll end up using a block + a dodge or some other mitigation when they see you blocking and go for the spear, which feels like a lose/lose.

That said, getting both the block and spear from a DH basically leaves only the traps to deal with, otherwise they're just a squishy blue warrior with a healing leap that's easy to deal with. So maybe it just feels unfun to deal with, but getting the main offensive and mitigation skills in exchange for a block + dodge isn't really a bad trade.

Edited December 18, 2023 by Curennos.9307

[shion.2084]

On 12/14/2023 at 4:04 AM, Sahne.6950 said:

Thanks for clarifying. 

If you are in the roflcombo, and he manged to lock you in a trap.... its looking bleak.  you got caught.   

In this situation you need either a block / a invuln / or stabi. You are right there. 

Luckily almost all builds have access to atleast one of these three things. Its 2023 after all, every build should have a way to get out of this situation. If i can survive the roflcombo on core ele with exactly 0 stab..... you surely can do it too. 

If you dont have a defensive cooldown... you are toast.   Which is true for pretty much every build right now.

I still do not think Hammer guardian is overpowered and needs a nerf.   I mean... its good... 

But far from the best build right now. And even further from being OP. 

It hits hard, but its literally paper, if you learned not to burst into the f3.

 

The current balancing... is... okay...ish...      Id rather not have them fumble around with Guardian.  it will be uber useless when they are done with it... or somehow even stronger than before.     we all know anet by now xD

Hammer is finally seeing some actual play! And i think thats cool!

Just my 2cts tho.

glacial blow does more damage than my nade barrage... more than 8k.  That hits a little too hard.   Also you get stuck in the ring 'O can't get out.

[Sahne.6950]

15 hours ago, shion.2084 said:

glacial blow does more damage than my nade barrage... more than 8k.  That hits a little too hard.   Also you get stuck in the ring 'O can't get out.

Wait what?  

A "highly telegraphed meeleskill" hits for more than a "over the shoulder castable, AoE, ranged skill" ?

no way.  

[Tharan.9085]

I have not once seen hammer DH in my ranked matches ngl

[Terrorhuz.4695]

Let hammer guardians enjoy something for once

18 hours ago, shion.2084 said:

glacial blow does more damage than my nade barrage... more than 8k.  That hits a little too hard.   Also you get stuck in the ring 'O can't get out.

You fellow engineers need a reality check about the bs grenade kit allows you to get away with

Edited December 19, 2023 by Terrorhuz.4695

[Kuma.1503]

13 hours ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

Let hammer guardians enjoy something for once

You fellow engineers need a reality check about the bs grenade kit allows you to get away with

Sighs... Sets down mug. 

I'll come get them. 

Come on friend. We can complain about engi in the other thread. 

[Gotejjeken.1267]

16 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

Wait what?  

A "highly telegraphed meeleskill" hits for more than a "over the shoulder castable, AoE, ranged skill" ?

no way.  

You seem to really want ranger GS Maul to get buffed.  As it's a highly telegraphed melee skill, and by this logic it should hit harder than engi nades--so 10k+?

DH's problem is the traps which should retain the dmg but lose the area denial, and also true shot which hits way too hard.  The pull wouldn't even matter if the traps didn't have area denial and by time you break out, they are across the map true shotting.  

Guard LB/Traps are just straight upgrades to rangers...so to balance need to either bring guard traps and LB down or ranger's up.  

[Sahne.6950]

6 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

As it's a highly telegraphed melee skill, and by this logic it should hit harder than engi nades

Yes it should.   and yes, it does that already.

what are you on about?

Edited December 20, 2023 by Sahne.6950

[Sahne.6950]

6 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Guard LB/Traps are just straight upgrades to rangers...so to balance need to either bring guard traps and LB down or ranger's up.  

Ranger boasts alot more survivability and more mobility + you have a pet ontop. 

Its hard to just put skill A and skill B next to eachother and say:  " well....   TRUESHOT HITS HARDER!  So they have to Buff ranger! "

 

Ranger is honestly fine when comparing it to DH.....      

if you havent figured out that you can just activate the traps with your Pet and that completly messes with the DH´s gameplan and therefore instantly tips the MU in your favor.......... then thats a "you" problem.

Edited December 20, 2023 by Sahne.6950

[Gotejjeken.1267]

9 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

Yes it should.   and yes, it does that already.

what are you on about?

Maul doesn't hit harder than Grenade Barrage 😂. 

Also, slow moving telegraphed bear that anyone with eyesight is dodging vs. nades thrown behind an engi running away with superspeed--not the same ballpark there.  My point is your logic of 'slow moving telegraphed melee skill hits harder' doesn't hold up for vast majority of cases.

2 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

Ranger boasts alot more survivability. 

Not really.  I'm sure you know how to compare classes, and I also know you know that trapper DH has always been better than trapper ranger.  

If disagree, please let me know next time you run into at trapper ranger in actual ranked, and actually die to it so I can have a good laugh.  

[Sahne.6950]

1 hour ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Maul doesn't hit harder than Grenade Barrage 😂. 

Also, slow moving telegraphed bear that anyone with eyesight is dodging vs. nades thrown behind an engi running away with superspeed--not the same ballpark there.  My point is your logic of 'slow moving telegraphed melee skill hits harder' doesn't hold up for vast majority of cases.

Not really.  I'm sure you know how to compare classes, and I also know you know that trapper DH has always been better than trapper ranger.  

If disagree, please let me know next time you run into at trapper ranger in actual ranked, and actually die to it so I can have a good laugh.  

Who is talking about trapper ranger?

i also dont compare todays builds to 2017 Lightningrod ele...

 

Yes it does.  

 Grenade barrage has a 0.33 coeff and throws 6 nades on a 25 second CD.

Maul has 1.36 coeff, gives a +25% Damage boost and has a 8 second CD.

I sure dont have to explain to you that in order to hit harder than a maul, a engie needs to atleast hit 5 of the 6 nades, and that this is borderline impossible while actually kiting and using this skill on actual range.  And that the skill than has 3 times the Cooldown and that it cant be reset with Hiltbash.

 

Its crazy hard comparing those two skills, because you have to factor in things lik damagemodifiers, stat differences, yada yada yada...  but just for the sake of it...    

->in a vacuum,    A ranger standing infront of you mauling, and a Engie that is running around you and uses the single Grenade barrage that he can thrown every 25 seconds. over the shoulder.  The ranger will almost always hit harder. As you would have to hit 5 out of the 6 Grenades to surpass Mauls Damage.    The other, actually spammable skill "grenade" has a x0.25 coeff and only throws 3 grenades...    When all 3 grenades hit the target, which is yet again not reasonable when actually kiting with it... it wont even deal half the dmg of a maul....

 

But like i said... its borderline impossible to compare skills, just by looking at the dmg coeff.    You have alot of diffrent damage modifiers and stat differences inside the professions kits, that while dramatically change the actual Damage numbers you will see in a game.

For example, the second you activate "sicem"  no Grenade barrage on this planet, not even when eating every 6 Grenades from the 25 second Grenadebarrage will come close to the Damage that maul, a 8 seconds cooldown, instantly refreshable, +25% damageboost giving skill, will deal.

 

TLDR: Maul holds up very well, even when comparing it to a 25 second Cooldown skill.        

You might not believe it... but Maul/the whole of GS is one of the most iconic and strongest moves/weapon in all of GW2.  Has always been, and will always be.   The 25% dmg modifier is the cherry ontop.

Edited December 20, 2023 by Sahne.6950

[Terrorhuz.4695]

8 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

You seem to really want ranger GS Maul to get buffed.  As it's a highly telegraphed melee skill, and by this logic it should hit harder than engi nades--so 10k+?

You seem to really be unable to understand that nades shouldn't hit this hard AT ALL, which wasn't the point of this thread but since you're asking...

Edited December 20, 2023 by Terrorhuz.4695

[Sahne.6950]

thats a diffrent story and something i could get behind any time XD

Altho i dont feel like Nade scrapper is all that opressive right now...  them nerfing "grenade" was already quite a dent for the nadescrappers.

But its still not healthy that the whole of Engie is basically forced to run nades, just because its sooo much better than anything else they have.  

Powershift wouldnt hurt.

Edited December 20, 2023 by Sahne.6950

[Khalisto.5780]

so far i have faced 0 hammer DH, some core hammer, maybe 2 hammer willy, but 0 DHs

[shion.2084]

On 12/19/2023 at 2:38 AM, Sahne.6950 said:

Wait what?  

A "highly telegraphed meeleskill" hits for more than a "over the shoulder castable, AoE, ranged skill" ?

no way.  

If you over the shoulder range use it, you get 4k damage if you're lucky.  It is essentially a mele skill to deal its damage cause you need to hit with all six grenades.  That means that your nerfed duration stealth, with one stun break and 15k health build, needs to hope they don't pop projectile denial and get right on top of them and drop it.

Now I've been hit by 13k from range by spinal shivers.. 12k by true shot... so yeah, you need to understand that grenade barrage is in-effective at range and in mele a scrapper is deletable with the slightest bit of CC, countable with projectile denial and generally falls over if sneezed on.

[shion.2084]

On 12/19/2023 at 5:14 AM, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

Let hammer guardians enjoy something for once

You fellow engineers need a reality check about the bs grenade kit allows you to get away with

We have one.  It's called trade-offs.  The meta shredder build had nade damage nerfed, has poor stealth on a long cool-down, gets one stun break, no ports, caries almost no condi cleanse and runs at about 15-18k health..... You get they nerfed it right?   You get projectile denial counters it on top of everything....   Now careful of throwing stones in glass houses, who else does 7k or better and has to take those tradeoffs to get it?  

[Tharan.9085]

48 minutes ago, shion.2084 said:

We have one.  It's called trade-offs.  The meta shredder build had nade damage nerfed, has poor stealth on a long cool-down, gets one stun break, no ports, caries almost no condi cleanse and runs at about 15-18k health..... You get they nerfed it right?   You get projectile denial counters it on top of everything....   Now careful of throwing stones in glass houses, who else does 7k or better and has to take those tradeoffs to get it?  

You only have one stunbreak if you don't run slickshoes.
You have more than enough cleanses considering you run tools and a defensive weapon that allows you to just block/dodge/reflect condi applications.
11s stealth by using hammer 3 during the gyro isnt really bad and you can simply run power wrench and adrenal implant if you think the cd is to high.
Bunch of builds get countered by projectile denial, that's the tradeoff of having range.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

11 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

I sure dont have to explain to you that in order to hit harder than a maul, a engie needs to atleast hit 5 of the 6 nade

Okay, so Nades hit harder than Maul 😂.

Anyway, I'll let the DH's and Engi fight now....

[Arheundel.6451]

It's mindblowing and sad to look at the mental gymnastic used to justify guardian burst of any kind when similar mechanics got nerfed for less in the past. Chief among these: teleporting burst....deemed by this game community  as "unhealthy" ...suddenly it becomes "good" as long as some professions got access to it. Let's take "judge's intervention"... similar skill got nerfed on ranger...revenant...ele..but guardian gets a pass. Untamed burst...couple of people could make it work in a MAT match...nerfed few weeks later....guardian hammer burst...even a toddler can do it....it's considered balanced and all. The gw2 community never cease to amuse me....

I am not "offending" anybody, right?!

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

*Quietly sipping coffee and observing* 

[Sahne.6950]

you know what.... this aint worth it...

 

*picks up coffee mug and joins Azure*

Edited December 21, 2023 by Sahne.6950

[Eddie.9143]

2 blocks, 2 leap heals, reveal, pull, a lock in, traps, invuln, 8k-10k crits on hammer, 8k crits on longbow. passive condi removal, perma resolution, can't hit from a distance because of terrain, can't fight close up cause you'll eat 20k damage in a millisecond.

 

 

needs adjustment. anyone who disagrees is probably playing it rn