GW3 is long overdue

[Donari.5237]

On 12/24/2023 at 4:05 PM, Batalix.2873 said:

On 12/24/2023 at 4:05 PM, Batalix.2873 said:

2. The ready-made computer-gaming market created by the likes of CoD, Destiny, Overwatch, etc. is increasingly just ignoring keyboard-based games. Several of my friends won't even touch GW2 because they need to use a keyboard.

Interestingly, when I was at Best Buy last week the floor helper that came to talk to me was a gamer, much younger than me (I'm late 50's, he was in his 20's).  We managed to chat for an hour about gaming.  He said he hadn't bothered with keyboard until a friend got him to try a game using keyboard.  "I didn't know what I'd been missing.  You can do so much more on a keyboard."  As someone that grew up with electric typewriters and saw the dawn of personal computing, I'm firmly wedded to keyboard gaming.  If ANet's next project requires a controller, I won't be able to play it.

I know this because I have tried using controllers, including the Steam Deck, and am too right handed (plus my left hand doesn't work very well these days).  I can touch type due to years of training the muscle memory since my first typing lessons in elementary school.  I can use a mouse intuitively because I learned on the first mice in the 1980s.  But when I went looking in the last year or two for tutorial programs on controller use, the same sort of thing with drills that you get for typing or music playing, it turned out there aren't any.  It's just assumed you will know which buttons do what and be able to instinctively hit them because of course anyone using a controller must have grown up with one.  The closest thing to a tutorial was "play games until you learn the buttons."  Well, the games are zero fun if you can't steer your character or make them jump at the right time.  So yeah, I deeply, fervently hope that mouse/keyboard games will continue to exist.

(sorry for embed -- somehow it double nested Batalix's quote)

Edited December 28, 2023 by Donari.5237

[Cyninja.2954]

2 hours ago, Balsa.3951 said:

misclick than my question stays and ppl try to derail to push agenda that anet said no to gw3.

nvm 

Misclick? You were told multiple times that you are mixing up users.

Remember: "learn to read people"?

The only agenda here is different users talking about how likely a GW3 is in the next few years or ever, and the answer is: almost guaranteed not in the next few years and not likely ever.

Edited December 28, 2023 by Cyninja.2954

[Scolix.4879]

On 12/22/2023 at 7:09 PM, pabloedvardo.3058 said:

I know the people left on here are mostly GW2 die hards with computers that probably run the game at 1080p and they don't mind the performance issues.

but GW2 was far and away my favorite MMO-ish game I ever played (especially back in beta before they ruined the Thief class), the integration of some of the best art direction / ux along with modernizing many old MMO problems resulted in one of the most exciting and immersive gaming experiences I've ever had

However, it wasn't long lived, as I recall struggling with performance issues even back when it came out.

Now, years later, I finally decided to give it a try again. Maybe they had improved things?

Unfortunately, nope, in the era of 4080s, 16 core processors, and 4K resolution, GW2 runs abysmally slow, with hitching and latency even around relatively low population areas.

It's painfully clear that GW2's engine was not only never great in the first place, but that now it's completely unplayable save for those who are still addicted somehow.

If ArenaNet can somehow turn out a similar quality game, with the same feedback loop between players and designers, but with a modern multi-threaded engine capable of utilizing modern hardware, I would play it in an instant.

I loved this game/team so much that I bought multiple copies of the game back when it came out just so friends of mine could try it.

Please make Guild Wars 3!

You do know that people that have powerfull gaming pc's are extreme minority and most people use their computer until it dies and then fix it then run it few times again until it is no linger useable by not being able to run anything anymore or just can't find parts to it.

Making GW3 would just not be profitable at all.

[Bladestrom.6425]

5 hours ago, Scolix.4879 said:

You do know that people that have powerfull gaming pc's are extreme minority and most people use their computer until it dies and then fix it then run it few times again until it is no linger useable by not being able to run anything anymore or just can't find parts to it.

Making GW3 would just not be profitable at all.

Exactly,  i have a 5 year old pc that cost me £600 to build that quite happily runs gw2 at max settings 1080.  spending £1000 to get some extra pixels with 4k would be stupid.

[Pifil.5193]

8 hours ago, Linken.6345 said:

Also warhammer online

Ah I loved that game, so many fun battles that raged for hours over and back, played it up until they shut the servers down, such a shame that game didn't get more development. 

[Pifil.5193]

9 hours ago, Linken.6345 said:

 

 

Edited December 28, 2023 by Pifil.5193
Double post

[Linken.6345]

3 hours ago, Pifil.5193 said:

Ah I loved that game, so many fun battles that raged for hours over and back, played it up until they shut the servers down, such a shame that game didn't get more development. 

Is Warhammer online still a thing?

 

The game received generally positive reviews from critics but shut down in 2013. Since at least 2014, an active private server called Return of Reckoning has been run by fans, and it remains active as of September 2023.

[Cyninja.2954]

1 hour ago, Linken.6345 said:

Is Warhammer online still a thing?

 

The game received generally positive reviews from critics but shut down in 2013. Since at least 2014, an active private server called Return of Reckoning has been run by fans, and it remains active as of September 2023.

Unfortunately not, it was shut down in 2013. A private server has been up since 2014 though run by fans.

EDIT: ah over-read the 2nd part. Yes, a fan server is running and seems well populated. The game was an interesting experiment for its time. Wasn't quite able to grasp the success of DAoC for RvR though.

Edited December 28, 2023 by Cyninja.2954

[Linken.6345]

2 hours ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

Unfortunately not, it was shut down in 2013. A private server has been up since 2014 though run by fans.

EDIT: ah over-read the 2nd part. Yes, a fan server is running and seems well populated. The game was an interesting experiment for its time. Wasn't quite able to grasp the success of DAoC for RvR though.

That is so true about the DAoC rvr comment and Mark Jacobs is having a hard time with his next project aswell.

Unsure if I will be intrested if it ever release even tho I backed it.

[Leger.3724]

Guild Wars 2 combat is floaty. It's poorly thought out, designed, balanced and optimized. That is why all the pvp modes were dead on arrival. That is why it has by far the smallest end game pve scene of any MMO.

Guild Wars 3 should always be on the table for this fact alone. 

Sure this game does open world spectacle really well. Casual pve is well thought out. The alternative to the traditional questing systems of MMOs is a good one. But when fundamental combat is so inherently unfun, poorly thought out, needlessly complex for so many people making it not approachable for your average person considering the game.... that's a huge point of failure where it's worth considering a new game versus continued expansions that only exacerbate the combat issues of this game.

We'll see what happens going forward. It has been stunning to me to see us go from Guild Wars 1 tab target to Guild Wars 2 sort of action combat but still with a ton of tab targeting and 2-3x the abilities on a skillbar. I genuinely wonder who thought this was a good idea?

[rune.9572]

14 hours ago, Leger.3724 said:

Guild Wars 2 combat is floaty

lol careful, you're about to summon eternal QQ from people who thing gw2's spammy combat is pinnacle of game design

anyway ngl I'm enjoying armchair financial analyst takes in this thread, keep em coming

[Ashen.2907]

57 minutes ago, rune.9572 said:

lol careful, you're about to summon eternal QQ from people who thing gw2's spammy combat is pinnacle of game design

anyway ngl I'm enjoying armchair financial analyst takes in this thread, keep em coming

I certainly dont think that GW2 combat is the pinnacle of game design, but Ive yet to play an MMO with combat I found to be better. 

[Leger.3724]

16 minutes ago, rune.9572 said:

lol careful, you're about to summon eternal QQ from people who thing gw2's spammy combat is pinnacle of game design

anyway ngl I'm enjoying armchair financial analyst takes in this thread, keep em coming

Let them have their delusion they'd ever be relevant if this game had a bigger scene.

This reminds me of  DOTA 2 vs League of Legends. DOTA 2 comes with a lot of the clunkiness of the original DOTA like turn radius. No, DOTA 2 is better, you see, there's a turn radius and that adds skill! And the outcome is despite being on the monopoly that is Steam they have 1/10th the playerbase of League of Legends. People want intuitive and responsive combat.

Would that alone make Guild Wars 3 or any MMO successful? No. But a fun, simple and intuitive combat system can allow for lots of player skill and it will attract more people to try it out and stick with it. It feels like a lot of developers think putting up barriers for players to overcome is why they play. And that is why the MMO scene continues to bleed players year after year.

[Zenith.7301]

WoW is rolling in money, massively more popular and successful, and it hasn't even released a WoW 2 despite predating GW2. What makes you think there will be a GW3 with a much smaller studio with far less resources.

MMOs don't do sequels. GW2 was the absolute anomaly. FFXIV was a reboot of FFXI, but it's an hugely successful franchise. GW2 started well with HoT but fell off a cliff in PoF.

Edited December 31, 2023 by Zenith.7301

[Linken.6345]

18 minutes ago, Zenith.7301 said:

WoW is rolling in money, massively more popular and successful, and it hasn't even released a WoW 2 despite predating GW2. What makes you think there will be a GW3 with a much smaller studio with far less resources.

MMOs don't do sequels. GW2 was the absolute anomaly. FFXIV was a reboot of FFXI, but it's an hugely successful franchise. GW2 started well with HoT but fell off a cliff in PoF.

To be technical ff14 is a reboot of ff14.

[Leger.3724]

28 minutes ago, Zenith.7301 said:

WoW is rolling in money, massively more popular and successful, and it hasn't even released a WoW 2 despite predating GW2. What makes you think there will be a GW3 with a much smaller studio with far less resources.

MMOs don't do sequels. GW2 was the absolute anomaly. FFXIV was a reboot of FFXI, but it's an hugely successful franchise. GW2 started well with HoT but fell off a cliff in PoF.

MMOs are losing players. World of Warcraft is looking around to try and figure out what it can do and right now all it can do is copy. This time they're copying the only currently successful MMO (in terms of bringing in and retaining players) in Oldschool Runescape which has bridged the gap with Leagues and Deadman Mode into an 'esport' of sorts. Whenever people talk about Old School hitting a new player high - it's always at the start of one of these events. Everyone's account starts fresh on a set of temporary servers and they battle it out to see who can get the most points or if it's Deadman (pvp) the last man standing.

So I guess the better question is - why should Arena Net continue down the path they know is in longterm trouble? The genre needs innovation. The only one really providing it right now is Jagex and Old School Runescape with their Leagues and Deadman modes. But how long will that last? 

[Scolix.4879]

On 12/30/2023 at 9:05 AM, Leger.3724 said:

Guild Wars 2 combat is floaty. It's poorly thought out, designed, balanced and optimized. That is why all the pvp modes were dead on arrival. That is why it has by far the smallest end game pve scene of any MMO.

 

Balance i can agree with but to me its way better than any other mmo i have tried over the years. 

[Zenith.7301]

9 hours ago, Linken.6345 said:

To be technical ff14 is a reboot of ff14.

Well, I'll give you that lol.

Point still stands. GW2 is only sustaining its costs right now. Anet is not in any spot to overhaul an engine for a new MMO, and in the process risk a lot of players who won't be happy their years of legendaries and expensive skins don't carry over to a new GW3 they would have to significantly spend resources into.

That's really the curse of MMOs. People invest long term for years into character items and appearances and mounts/mount skins and losing those to start fresh is a tough sell.

[Teknomancer.4895]

On 12/27/2023 at 5:10 PM, starlinvf.1358 said:

Guildwar's Art Direction does a LOT to help you forget the fact that the renderer is as old as it is, and the weird way it has to do certain things.  Especially in the lighting, where a modern engine would be doing most of the heavy lifting.  

STO made a change to their lighting system several years back and it made a big difference in both appearance and performance, so yes this could be a spot ANet could focus without having to rework the entire thing (if they were inclined to do something about it, which past behavior suggests is not the case). Both games are roughly the same age with roughly the same level of in-combat particle spam, so one would hope that results could be comparable.

[Wreckdum.8367]

The GW2 engine is at the end of the road. Secrets of the Obscure shined a massive magnifying glass on it.

I'm standing at Bastion of the Natural in Amnytas. Graphics on 1440p every detail setting as high as it goes. I'm getting 90fps. My system is an i9 13900k and RTX 4090. There are no other players around me. Just me standing alone getting 90fps with this system.

I've been playing Throne & Liberty on KR servers for the last 3 weeks. I have it on 1440p everything ultra. I get mostly 200+fps depending on the content. It's the best looking MMO I've ever seen. It has better graphics than most single player games I've ever played. And it's an actual true open world MMO unlike GW2. It doesn't have instanced maps to mask it's performance issues.

My dilemma is, I like GW2 gameplay more than T&L. If I could swap T&L's engine with GW2's content system it would be my perfect MMO. GW2 has never truly felt like an MMO to me for it's lack of a persistent open world. Map shards are the antithesis of an MMO in my eyes. If I can be standing in the world and click log out, log back in and be on a different instance of the same map with different events and people around me, that's a faux MMO in my opinion. Not to mention the fact that maps have a player limit and can actually be full. That's a lot of smoke and mirrors to hide performance problems.

They've squeezed every last drop out of this modified GW1 engine. Secrets of the Obscure proves that. The new zone's performance is abysmal even on top tier systems. Make a new game. Use UE4 or 5.

[Ashen.2907]

Human ability to perceive FPS usually doesn't go significantly above 60 FPS. Keep in mind that is "usual" not an absolute.

[Tiviana.2650]

On 12/22/2023 at 6:20 PM, Pinkeh.4207 said:

The "top 10" MMORPGs have not changed in years. Nobody is investing in new IPs. MMORPGs are incredibly expensive and risky. 

Thats because the generations are changing. These new generations dont want to sit at a pc for hours and invest in massive worlds that are expensive to make and  keep up.  The youth today are all  about phone games something they can play while flipping through socialmedia. Its sad really when the old guard is gone the mmorpg pc gaming genre will be gone with us. To these kids our ways are antiquated, but they dont see that their cheap little lootbox phone games are absolute nothing of substance. Mobile games are super cheap to make and easy to make a profit on, and companies know this easy to hook a generation of jumpy bunnies that cant sit still long enough to invest in deep game worlds like mmorpgs.

 

And yes i think SoTo has pushed the engine to its limit. They will need to do something before any next expansion or it may be catastrophic. The can tweak this engine wow did it and it looks nothing like the old wow. But you  need some serious specialists so you dont vaporize the entire game. I mean even the GW2 website and forums have been acting up slow unresponsive, I dont know whats going on but something is.

Edited December 31, 2023 by Tiviana.2650

[Kelly.7019]

4080s are like 1-2k for the graphics card alone, who the heck wants to buy that? not me.

Edited January 1 by Kelly.7019

[Kelly.7019]

they are working on some other game with an unreal engine.  its probs not gw3, but people will fantasize none the less.

[Scolix.4879]

Personally i don't understand the facination of GW3. This game still works fine on my computer and i really REALLY have zero interest to start new mmo the only way for me to migrate to GW3 would literally be if i could keep my current characters with current gear and other stuff they have but if i would have to start from scratch i would with high possibility just play GW2 or other games where i already have decade(s) of stuff collected.