GW3 is long overdue

[Scolix.4879]

On 12/30/2023 at 11:16 PM, rune.9572 said:

lol careful, you're about to summon eternal QQ from people who thing gw2's spammy combat is pinnacle of game design

 

The combat might not be the pinnacle but then tell me what mmo has better combat because i have yet to find one that actually has combat system which actually makes leveling as enjoyable as it does in endgame. 

[Dadnir.5038]

33 minutes ago, Scolix.4879 said:

The combat might not be the pinnacle but then tell me what mmo has better combat because i have yet to find one that actually has combat system which actually makes leveling as enjoyable as it does in endgame. 

The issue with GW2 wasn't the combat aspect. Imo it's one of the game with the best combat flow on the market.

No, the issue is that the devs tried to balance the game as a whole based on the microcosme of sPvP (small scale PvP fight with limited stat combination choice). This balance philosophy made WvW balance inexistent and PvE balance laughable since more than half of the game's mechanisms aren't even implemented on the mobs AI and basically replaced by effect immunity and inflated health pool.

They broke PvP each time they tried to balance PvE and broke PvE each time they tried to balance PvP while WvW stayed broken through all the patch notes. When they tried to balance WvW, they broke both PvE and PvP and failed at balancing WvW. And they did this for at least 8 years out of 11. Even now, with split balance they don't seem to realize the simple fact that a lot of the valued effect in sPvP have little to no impact in PvE. What they truly need to do is to balance the "E" from PvE in such a way that every effect have as much value in all gamemodes instead on focusing on the "P". But that's obviously not going to happen despite GW1 doing it right.

Edited January 1 by Dadnir.5038

[DanAlcedo.3281]

2 minutes ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

No, the issue is that the devs tried to balance the game as a whole based on the microcosme of sPvP (small scale PvP fight with limited stat combination choice)

I would love some source for that. 

 

[Cuks.8241]

Balance in mmorpgs is largely irrelevant when it comes to enjoyment of most of the player base (there is a degree of acceptable imbalance but gw2 and most games are not there). Unless you're in top 0.001 (you can probably add a few 0s) in pvp modes or in some world first pve guild balance is more than good enough for you. Also if you're looking for competitive pvp, mmorpgs are really not the place to look for, there are many dedicated, better games out there. And top pve guilds just take what's best anyway.

Look at wow. At it's peak both pve and pvp balance was horrible and it didn't stop it from being enjoyed by 10s of millions of players. And we're talking whole arena seasons being dominated by 2-4 builds and some classes being unplayable (at least as perceived by players at the time) in raids.

Yeah players will complain. They always do. Even if game was 100% balanced, they would because when they get killed it's easier to blame balance than themselves.

[Bladestrom.6425]

5 hours ago, Cuks.8241 said:

Balance in mmorpgs is largely irrelevant when it comes to enjoyment of most of the player base (there is a degree of acceptable imbalance but gw2 and most games are not there). Unless you're in top 0.001 (you can probably add a few 0s) in pvp modes or in some world first pve guild balance is more than good enough for you. Also if you're looking for competitive pvp, mmorpgs are really not the place to look for, there are many dedicated, better games out there. And top pve guilds just take what's best anyway.

Look at wow. At it's peak both pve and pvp balance was horrible and it didn't stop it from being enjoyed by 10s of millions of players. And we're talking whole arena seasons being dominated by 2-4 builds and some classes being unplayable (at least as perceived by players at the time) in raids.

Yeah players will complain. They always do. Even if game was 100% balanced, they would because when they get killed it's easier to blame balance than themselves.

for  WOW pvp has been a train wreck since day 1, with gear = win being at the heart of the game.  For PVE, balance has been the number one point of contention as well, with entire classes being benched because of balance issues. 

For GW2 its no different, the only issue is that GW2 has much better balance in general because of the gear power hard ceiling.  GW2 has WVW, PVP and PVE so it is most certainly not irrelevant.

[Kiki.9450]

16 hours ago, Tiviana.2650 said:

Thats because the generations are changing. These new generations dont want to sit at a pc for hours and invest in massive worlds that are expensive to make and  keep up.  The youth today are all  about phone games something they can play while flipping through socialmedia. Its sad really when the old guard is gone the mmorpg pc gaming genre will be gone with us. To these kids our ways are antiquated, but they dont see that their cheap little lootbox phone games are absolute nothing of substance. Mobile games are super cheap to make and easy to make a profit on, and companies know this easy to hook a generation of jumpy bunnies that cant sit still long enough to invest in deep game worlds like mmorpgs.

 

And yes i think SoTo has pushed the engine to its limit. They will need to do something before any next expansion or it may be catastrophic. The can tweak this engine wow did it and it looks nothing like the old wow. But you  need some serious specialists so you dont vaporize the entire game. I mean even the GW2 website and forums have been acting up slow unresponsive, I dont know whats going on but something is.

Gosh and here I was thinking it was all about Fortnite and Minecraft! What is it with these gosh darned kids??? Can't keep up with 'em. (Or other demographics that I am not a part of that the media told me to hate because they're different and different is scary and the sole reason this world is going down the drain.)

The issue with creating new MMOs is much more complex than "kids these days don't want 'em." The biggest part is likely what you already quoted: MMOs are hugely expensive and risky to create. Why is that? Probably because, for one, look what MMOs have to compete with: World of Warcraft and Final Fantasy. That's like a mom and pop trying to take on Walmart or Amazon. Nah, not happening. Good on you for trying though, and I hope you get the support you need to really stand up and go, but until a large chunk of the active userbase stops using the big giants, the little guys aren't getting that far. As far as video games go, if they can provide a novel-enough gameplay experience that's hard to replicate or captures a niche audience, they tend to stick around.

MMOs are known for their giant playtime investments, even if these days many MMOs are embracing a more casual approach. (Do we blame the kids for this too, or is it the more realistic reasoning that the average person has less time for video games in their average day?) This, plus the "expected" longterm time investment, makes a lot of current MMO players wary of investing into a new MMO. Just look at the responses in this thread (including one of my own): "I don't want a new GW3 because of how much time I've put into GW2." I can't even convince people I play WoW with to check out this game because they think that somehow their time spent playing WoW will be "lost." Or, at least, that's one excuse I've been fed. "Cost sunk falacy" I believe.

There's probably other reasons I'm not thinking about as to why the "Top 10 MMOs" list hasn't budged in a while, but money and time are the biggest two. Always.

Oh and in regards to the game's engine: as long as GW2 continues to receive development (i.e. new expansions), there will be improvements made to the engine. Small ones here and there, but this game isn't what released back in 2012. And if this game is still alive in 2032, it won't be what it is now. Whatever issues you're having with the GW2 website and forums is likely on your end, I've not experienced any problems.

[Kelly.7019]

with all the stuff they haven't done in this game, i really would not be looking forward to them (though they aint doing it) rebooting the game only to still have all the same flaws just better graphics

[Kelly.7019]

19 hours ago, Tiviana.2650 said:

Thats because the generations are changing. These new generations dont want to sit at a pc for hours and invest in massive worlds that are expensive to make and  keep up.  The youth today are all  about phone games something they can play while flipping through socialmedia. Its sad really when the old guard is gone the mmorpg pc gaming genre will be gone with us. To these kids our ways are antiquated, but they dont see that their cheap little lootbox phone games are absolute nothing of substance. Mobile games are super cheap to make and easy to make a profit on, and companies know this easy to hook a generation of jumpy bunnies that cant sit still long enough to invest in deep game worlds like mmorpgs.

 

And yes i think SoTo has pushed the engine to its limit. They will need to do something before any next expansion or it may be catastrophic. The can tweak this engine wow did it and it looks nothing like the old wow. But you  need some serious specialists so you dont vaporize the entire game. I mean even the GW2 website and forums have been acting up slow unresponsive, I dont know whats going on but something is.

I always thought a future gaming world would be mmo's but maybe this is the far future. Like "Caprica"(BSG prequel tv show) or "Suragates" (bruce willis movie).

With Caprica- u plug in kinda like Neauralink(not really) but just put some nifty glasses on (a future version on VR headsets i guess) and your ported to a dream like world where everything seems really. (think GTA 36 ) 😄 (if every decade the gta is upgraded then probably would be about that long-heh) the world you'd exist in pretty much would be a mmo.

Or they could go the route of Suragates where you sit at home plugged into your chair and drive your drone robot body around the real world to do stuff so you don't physaically have to do anything. lol. But still these are mmo fantasies. I wonder how these new game modes with smartphones would evolve in future settings like these 2 examples.

 

edit: well i guess they'd still be mmo's just not mmorpgs.

Edited January 1 by Kelly.7019

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

22 hours ago, Wreckdum.8367 said:

The GW2 engine is at the end of the road. Secrets of the Obscure shined a massive magnifying glass on it.

I'm standing at Bastion of the Natural in Amnytas. Graphics on 1440p every detail setting as high as it goes. I'm getting 90fps. My system is an i9 13900k and RTX 4090. There are no other players around me. Just me standing alone getting 90fps with this system.

I've been playing Throne & Liberty on KR servers for the last 3 weeks. I have it on 1440p everything ultra. I get mostly 200+fps depending on the content. It's the best looking MMO I've ever seen. It has better graphics than most single player games I've ever played. And it's an actual true open world MMO unlike GW2. It doesn't have instanced maps to mask it's performance issues.

My dilemma is, I like GW2 gameplay more than T&L. If I could swap T&L's engine with GW2's content system it would be my perfect MMO. GW2 has never truly felt like an MMO to me for it's lack of a persistent open world. Map shards are the antithesis of an MMO in my eyes. If I can be standing in the world and click log out, log back in and be on a different instance of the same map with different events and people around me, that's a faux MMO in my opinion. Not to mention the fact that maps have a player limit and can actually be full. That's a lot of smoke and mirrors to hide performance problems.

They've squeezed every last drop out of this modified GW1 engine. Secrets of the Obscure proves that. The new zone's performance is abysmal even on top tier systems. Make a new game. Use UE4 or 5.

i wouldn't get invested in throne and liberty; you may want to check ncsoft's stock price and profit trends before playing any of their other games heavily. i wouldn't be surprised if arenanet is going to abandon ship at some point given how rapidly the company (ncsoft) is falling apart.

Edited January 1 by SoftFootpaws.9134

[Tiviana.2650]

3 hours ago, Kiki.9450 said:

The issue with creating new MMOs is much more complex than "kids these days don't want 'em."

The issue is no demand , there are not enough people who will play it to make the investment worth it.

3 hours ago, Kiki.9450 said:

MMOs are known for their giant playtime investments, even if these days many MMOs are embracing a more casual approach. (Do we blame the kids for this too, or is it the more realistic reasoning that the average person has less time for video games in their average day?)

You act like im blaming here, im merely stating  fact in gaming trends that has been proven over and over. When wow came out then final fantasy they were intense games that required intense time dedication, yet they pulled in the numbers of players no problem. Because no lifeing was a thing of my generation, no young people dont want to invest that way anymore as a trend. And thats fine the point is its killing the genre of mmorpg we consider classic, pc gaming is far more invested it cost more to play, many people dont have a pc as their phone or tablet is their main connection. Then there is console , and game companies have realized they can make a fortune on a simple game played on mobile without crating huge server worlds, or small coplay cross platform games . It funny that the most downloaded and played game of all time is candy crush with over 2 billion downloads, then PUBG with a little over 1 billion. But thats to be expected because not everyone  can afford a pc to play the big mmorpg games

[Leger.3724]

2 hours ago, Kelly.7019 said:

I always thought a future gaming world would be mmo's but maybe this is the far future. Like "Caprica"(BSG prequel tv show) or "Suragates" (bruce willis movie).

I think longterm MMO is the future, people are social. What comes to mind to me is Minecraft. Not an MMO but the idea of people working together cooperatively and building. You look at League of Legends, Fortnite, Apex Legends, Call of Duty - large pvp games that have some persistence in the form of skins you can buy or earn, that add account levels in that don't impact the fairness of the gameplay but allow you to show off something persistent and permanent outside of the individual game rounds.

The biggest games are still multiplayer even if they aren't true MMOs or they don't have the RPG element. And this is what developers need to grapple with. Would anyone here without a World of Warcraft account consider that game? You're going to have to spend large amounts of money and then for the privilege of spending all that money.... you're 15 years behind other people, you're thousands of hours behind people. Same problem with Guild Wars 2 even with 'horizontal' progression. You pay a large amount of money for the privilege of having to grind significant hours to catchup to other people. 

And then you look back at the games I listed at the start. You play them for the sake of playing them. You play them because you find them fun and engaging. Not because you're going to get 5% extra stats on a gear piece drop, not because you're going to get a mastery point so you can get more loot from Kryptis rifts. You play because it's fun. People are searching for gameplay that's fun and engaging where there isn't a grind put in front of them whether it's something less significant like the GW2 mastery system or whether it's a level and gear progression system like FF14 or WoW. Maybe this is a place AI could be leveraged. I think the open world in Guild Wars 2 is a really good concept. But AI could be leveraged here to create an even more dynamic world with events taking place across it. As hardware improves the worlds can get bigger. NPC AI can help bring it alive - both allied and enemy NPCs.

The two core questions for MMOs when a new player is looking at them (outside of "does this have a playerbase"):

1) is it inviting? Do you want to be in the world?

2) Is it approachable in terms of combat and other core systems?

You look at your typical MMO and the answers is no to both. I think Guild Wars 2 is a yes on 1 but a no on 2 after 11 years of systems being added, augmented.

It is what it is. The MMO genre needs that first daring, successful launch just like how Ultimate Online created a bunch of spinoffs and then World of Warcraft spawned a bunch of spinoffs. We're waiting for that next generation game that can attract an audience and then keep gameplay fun without adding bloat in the form of grinds so that 5 years after launch it's an attractive option for someone who has never played and is considering hopping in.

[Kiki.9450]

2 hours ago, Tiviana.2650 said:

The issue is no demand , there are not enough people who will play it to make the investment worth it.

You act like im blaming here, im merely stating  fact in gaming trends that has been proven over and over. When wow came out then final fantasy they were intense games that required intense time dedication, yet they pulled in the numbers of players no problem. Because no lifeing was a thing of my generation, no young people dont want to invest that way anymore as a trend. And thats fine the point is its killing the genre of mmorpg we consider classic, pc gaming is far more invested it cost more to play, many people dont have a pc as their phone or tablet is their main connection. Then there is console , and game companies have realized they can make a fortune on a simple game played on mobile without crating huge server worlds, or small coplay cross platform games . It funny that the most downloaded and played game of all time is candy crush with over 2 billion downloads, then PUBG with a little over 1 billion. But thats to be expected because not everyone  can afford a pc to play the big mmorpg games

I dunno, "a generation of jumpy bunnies that can't sit still long enough to invest in deep game worlds like MMORPGs" sounds awfully blamey. Gives the same vibes as "ok boomer" in my opinion. But alright.

You otherwise just reiterated a bunch of what I said: nobody has time or money. The players lack the time and/or money to play (not necessarily the attention span, a lot of things are competing for our attention these days compared to twenty years ago), and the big companies don't want to invest the time or money to wind up with a flop MMO, which most often are, or they're super niche at best. How's New World doing? Palia? Lost Ark? Also good to remember that a lot of MMOs these days aren't developed for PC (or strictly for PC) -- isn't most of NCSoft's more successful newer games available on mobile? That's probably the best way to make a new MMO these days, seeing as "mobile games are super cheap to make and easy to make a profit on."

Personally I don't care to check how any of those MMOs are doing because I'm heavily invested in two older MMOs that I know are doing well and there's no reason for me to jump ship. And I don't want to leave either right now. I'm sure a lot of players feel that way too.

Ultimately, I don't think "MMORPG" is a dying genre, it's an evolving one. Social gameplay is so easy to find these days, but there will always be a desire for MMORPGs, just maybe not exactly as we know them now, or knew them twenty years ago. Better for it too, I don't want to stand in one spot spamming Frost Bolt or have to sit and drink or eat between every enemy anymore. If I only have an hour tops to play, I want to get something done with my character in that time. If I can't, maybe I'll go progress my account in whatever other game that will let me feel like I can achieve something in that time.

But even then, I'm certain there will always be a subset of people that want something they view as deeper to invest in. Baldur's Gate 3 seems to be doing well, and I doubt it's because of the bear. (Well, maybe that's part of it.) The developers took that risk and it paid off. GW3 (as an MMO) may happen one day, but it'd need to make sense first for both the company to develop it and for a potential audience.

[SloRules.3560]

Opinion as someone that has pretty much quit GW2 in 2018/2019. I bought EoD but never finished it as idk, felt meh, haven't purchased Soto and don't intend to. Kinda just lurking around, looking for something to happen to this game or a new ANet game. I log in for 5 minutes maybe to do a loop around LA with beetle once a month or less.

I don't get it where are you guys getting the idea that there is no demand for a new MMO, especially from a successfully mmo studio like ANet. Seriously look at MMO releases in last 2 years, even though at least for me they were bad just from looking at videos and right there deciding i'm not even trying them. New world 1 million consecutive players on release, lost ark although i don't see it as such, was mentioned a lot in mmo circles 1.4 million on release, tower of fantasy an anime-ish mmo 250k taken from steam. That's concetive players, probably double in sales if not more. Apparently GW2 sold 2 million copies by first 2 weeks after release just for comparison.

NCsoft apparently thinks MMOs are profitable with Thrones and Liberty, so does Riot games and Sony (horizon mmo, developed by NCsoft). I'm guessing they don't expect massive market from the west with T&L, so why not new MMO from NcSoft and thus ANet.

While Soto is apparently a success, i don't see much of a peak in q3 earnings report, but i mean, if you deliver living world like content and than make money for it, it's success, because it was free before and honesty it's about time they made this change, although to late for me as i don't intend to pay anything for GW2 anymore as it's gotten stale and i don't think even migration to a new engine or whatever some are considering would change that. The game would still be the same and for a few years now it feels like there's nothing new, even with 2 expansions in this time.

A new game is also not made in a year or so, which seems to be how some are imagining things. If you need a new game in 5 years you should already be making it now with continued development of GW2 to secure money flow.

We know there's unreal engine 5 project at work with descriptions being stuff like: has to know mmos, console and pc, established ip, major AAA game title, early development, gw combat system iteration, shaping the visual identity of our unannounced AAA game. There was also another leak that Horizon MMO is developed in Korea. What game could possibly fill these descriptions heh? I really do think they are making GW3, but it's 5 years or more away. Thus smaller GW2 expansions as to have window of opportunity every year to redirect people to new project.

Edited January 1 by SloRules.3560

[MuscleBobBuffPants.1406]

8 minutes ago, SloRules.3560 said:

Opinion as someone that has pretty much quit GW2 in 2018/2019. I bought EoD but never finished it as idk, felt meh, hasn't purchased Soto and don't intend to. Kinda just lurking around, looking for something to happen to this game or a new ANet game. I log in for 5 minutes maybe to do a loop around LA with beetle once a month or less.

I don't get it where are you guys getting the idea that there is no demand for a new MMO, especially from a successfully mmo studio like ANet. Seriously look at MMO releases in last 2 years, even though at least for me they were bad just from looking at videos and right there deciding i'm not even trying them. New world 1 million consecutive players on release, lost ark although i don't see it as such, was mentioned a lot in mmo circles 1.4 million on release, tower of fantasy an anime-ish mmo 250k taken from steam. That's concetive players, probably double in sales if not more. Apparently GW2 sold 2 million copies by first 2 weeks after release just for comparison.

NCsoft apparently thinks MMOs are profitable with Thrones and Liberty, so does Riot games and Sony (horizon mmo, developed by NCsoft). I'm guessing they don't expect massive market from the west with T&L, so why not new MMO from NcSoft and thus ANet.

While Soto is apparently a success, i don't see much of a peak in q3 earnings report, but i mean, if you deliver living world like content and than make money for it, it's success, because it was free before and honesty it's about time they made this change, although to late for me as i don't intend to pay anything for GW2 anymore as it's gotten stale and i don't think even migration to a new engine or whatever some are considering would change. The game would still be the same and for a few years now it feels like there's nothing new, even with 2 expansions in this time.

A new game is also not made in a year or so, which seems to be how some are imagining things. If you need a new game in 5 years you should already be making it now with continued development of GW2 to secure money flow.

We know there's unreal engine 5 project at work with descriptions being stuff like: has to know mmos, console and pc, established ip, major AAA game title, early development, gw combat system iteration, shaping the visual identity of our unannounced AAA game. There was also another leak that Horizon MMO is developed in Korea. What game could possibly fill these descriptions heh? I really do think they are making GW3, but it's 5 years or more away. Thus smaller GW2 expansions as to have window of opportunity every year to redirect people to new project.

It would explain the new expansion development cycle and general minimal content people are receiving from them.  They must be splitting their time on GW3 and if they develop it over 5 years, that wouldn't be too far off from the GW2 development timeline (2006-2011).  I think some people are worried about the tech requirements but even GW2 when it came out was playable on a mid-range PC for the time.  If they do like they did with GW1 and allow carry over in terms of achievements etc. or even items or armor skins, I don't think it would be too much of a burden to make the switch.

[Kiki.9450]

1 hour ago, MuscleBobBuffPants.1406 said:

It would explain the new expansion development cycle and general minimal content people are receiving from them.  They must be splitting their time on GW3 and if they develop it over 5 years, that wouldn't be too far off from the GW2 development timeline (2006-2011).  I think some people are worried about the tech requirements but even GW2 when it came out was playable on a mid-range PC for the time.  If they do like they did with GW1 and allow carry over in terms of achievements etc. or even items or armor skins, I don't think it would be too much of a burden to make the switch.

My question is, what could a GW3 do that GW2 can't do? Why make a GW3 now instead of just expanding on GW2? We already know GW2 has a dedicated playerbase, so why take the risk in dividing or alienating that playerbase? GW3 coming in fifteen years may make more sense if the game were to quiet down or if a new, clearly huge gaming trend were to come up that looks like it'd justify implementing into a GW3 that just can't fit into GW2 (engine limitations that can't be worked around, works against design philosophy, etc.).

GW2 allowed for new avenues of exploration (jumping and swimming) and new playable races, and tried the whole personal story thing. Plus the new approach to combat customization with the weapons and bundles. (Yeah GW3 can do that, but is that enough to justify it?) And yeah, I do realize GW2 is an actual MMO and GW1 is more just an online RPG of sorts. There was plenty of reason to justify a GW2 that couldn't fit into GW1.

If GW3 were to happen now, it'd make more sense in my head doing something completely different. I could see it being a Skyrim- or Balder's Game 3-type of game. 

I'm not criticising the possibility of a GW3 MMO in the near future. I need help understanding what could make it work now, other than "I want it" or some form of copium over "how else can they justify mini-expansions for GW2?" All I can really see to "justify" a GW3 MMO would be to make it for mobile and/or console. Is that enough? Why not port GW2?

[SloRules.3560]

11 hours ago, Kiki.9450 said:

My question is, what could a GW3 do that GW2 can't do? Why make a GW3 now instead of just expanding on GW2? We already know GW2 has a dedicated playerbase, so why take the risk in dividing or alienating that playerbase? GW3 coming in fifteen years may make more sense if the game were to quiet down or if a new, clearly huge gaming trend were to come up that looks like it'd justify implementing into a GW3 that just can't fit into GW2 (engine limitations that can't be worked around, works against design philosophy, etc.).

GW2 allowed for new avenues of exploration (jumping and swimming) and new playable races, and tried the whole personal story thing. Plus the new approach to combat customization with the weapons and bundles. (Yeah GW3 can do that, but is that enough to justify it?) And yeah, I do realize GW2 is an actual MMO and GW1 is more just an online RPG of sorts. There was plenty of reason to justify a GW2 that couldn't fit into GW1.

If GW3 were to happen now, it'd make more sense in my head doing something completely different. I could see it being a Skyrim- or Balder's Game 3-type of game. 

I'm not criticising the possibility of a GW3 MMO in the near future. I need help understanding what could make it work now, other than "I want it" or some form of copium over "how else can they justify mini-expansions for GW2?" All I can really see to "justify" a GW3 MMO would be to make it for mobile and/or console. Is that enough? Why not port GW2?

GW2 has dedicated playerbase that is not really growing, at least if you look at earnings reports. Might want to set that baseline higher with a new game and run that for 10 or more years. There are many more players that don't play the game than the ones that do and there are also more players that have quit GW2 for one reason or another than what currently play it.

We know whatever they are making is also for consoles, no mention of mobile in last 2 years of job postings that i remember, but still a possibility, after all current phones are kitten powerful. I don't know how porting a game from windows to console is done or what is required, but even simple app for android can be a pain to get working on apple, if not done right. There's also pad vs keyboard and mouse thing which could be an issue in GW2.

As for improvements, i really don't like boon/condition system, on release it kinda held together i guess, but by the time HoT came around it showed it's weakness already. There's also no single target support (they tried and as far as i'm concerned they failed at it with specter), healing gameplay is basically spam aoe probably point blank heals until no more damage is coming in. Basically they introduced roles that combat system on release wasn't capable of support and is currently kinda tacked on with lacking mechanics that they apparently can't fix.

Trait system is barely functional for what it was supposed to be. Like they have to make power, condi and support traits in same traitline or there's endless complaints.

Different damage types maybe. Which also ties in with boons. Why is it only might, why not increases damage for melee/physical vs magical or even elemental/fire, dark, holy,... Create a team around the encounter and people you have.

Movement and attacking are so fundamental that confusion and torment are constant issues, while in GW1 their implementations worked for most part.

Mend huge split in community/communities. Combat design that is still deep, but easier to understand.

Reduce/increase number of races or remove voice acting. From GW2Efficiency 75% are playing human, tall human or cabbage, which all use/can use same assets.

Narrower profession design, so that you can introduce more professions, but are separated from each other as to not influence one another too much like elite specs, where core skills/traits are affecting all, but broken on only 1. Make it so that you don't need a new character just respec and you are done.

Story missions like GW1, where you are taken in an instance on a world map (map that you also use for open world), have it tuned for groups, but also introduce solo mode where your companions are AI, like current Kannach, Rytlock,.... Tie group completions to achievements and introduce hard mode.

Achievements that are relevant, not the flood that we have in GW2. Look GW1, this keeps people doing stuff. Doing 100% on world map is boring, Doing 100% of missions with masters reward (see gw1) is kinda rewarding, even better in hard mode.

Dodge has to be reworked, it's too fundamental and too strong. It trivializes too many mechanics both in pve and pvp. It narrows the design they can do.

WvW, it's great, but noone plays it for what it is anymore. It thrives on combat system that shines in this particular setting.

Revitalize pvp population, i'm pretty sure GW2 won't be able to recover this population no matter what it does.

Different monetization.

Time to create content is really long and we have devs that complained how long things take. I remember multiple times that they are waiting for UI changes and how easy it is to break.

I remember people bouncing of the game even some friends of mine, because of floaty combat and well, when i think about it, i never could handle PvE in GW2, where it actually does feel a bit off. Also no ai group synergy, think enemy groups in GW1 where you had healers, frontliners, backliners,... GW2 it's ether a boss or useless.

Graphics.

Developers often like working on new codebase and will pitch for it.

 

Just some things off of my head. Some are more personal preferences, some are really stuff that can be improved. Anyway, if it disrupts community too much without bringing enough new blood to replace it or if it's technical issue or if it costs too much compared to simply making a new game it can be on the list.

Edited January 2 by SloRules.3560

[Astralporing.1957]

7 hours ago, Tiviana.2650 said:

The issue is no demand , there are not enough people who will play it to make the investment worth it.

It's not that there's no demand. It's just that the market has already been pretty much saturated, and players that are invested in one MMORPG are not very likely to switch to a new one unless their original game messes up something really badly (and even then they will likely switch something that resembles their previous "main" MMORPG the most, not to something novel and very far from it). And because player investment is MMORPGs is very longterm, that's not something subject to easy change. A single-player game can often try to adjust their launch timeframe, and in this way avoid/mitigate some competition, but MMORPG can't really do that. Any new game on that market is going to immediately compete with the best of the best - the games that evolved during years of competition with other titles and emerged victorious (or at least somewhat succesful).

That, of course, means, that any new title is going to be extremely risky to develop, as to succeed it would have to be not just as good as its competition, but significantly better (in order to overcome player inertia). Trying to achieve this requires immense resource investment, while also running a major risk of that investment never being able to pay off. That's going to heavily (negatively) impact any decision to try to enter such a market.

Edited January 2 by Astralporing.1957

[Cyninja.2954]

This might be interesting:

For all of you still lurking or waiting for GW3, expect at least 5+ years or more at the very least since the current unannounced project seems not to be GW3 (as mentioned) and there is still active content development for GW2.

For everyone who is looking forward to try a new MMO, you just got one more to lool forward to.

[Kiki.9450]

8 hours ago, SloRules.3560 said:

GW2 has dedicated playerbase that is not really growing, at least if you look at earnings reports. Might want to set that baseline higher with a new game and run that for 10 or more years. There are many more players that don't play the game than the ones that do and there are also more players that have quit GW2 for one reason or another than what currently play it.

We know whatever they are making is also for consoles, no mention of mobile in last 2 years of job postings that i remember, but still a possibility, after all current phones are kitten powerful. I don't know how porting a game from windows to console is done or what is required, but even simple app for android can be a pain to get working on apple, if not done right. There's also pad vs keyboard and mouse thing which could be an issue in GW2.

As for improvements, i really don't like boon/condition system, on release it kinda held together i guess, but by the time HoT came around it showed it's weakness already. There's also no single target support (they tried and as far as i'm concerned they failed at it with specter), healing gameplay is basically spam aoe probably point blank heals until no more damage is coming in. Basically they introduced roles that combat system on release wasn't capable of support and is currently kinda tacked on with lacking mechanics that they apparently can't fix.

Trait system is barely functional for what it was supposed to be. Like they have to make power, condi and support traits in same traitline or there's endless complaints.

Different damage types maybe. Which also ties in with boons. Why is it only might, why not increases damage for melee/physical vs magical or even elemental/fire, dark, holy,... Create a team around the encounter and people you have.

Movement and attacking are so fundamental that confusion and torment are constant issues, while in GW1 their implementations worked for most part.

Mend huge split in community/communities. Combat design that is still deep, but easier to understand.

Reduce/increase number of races or remove voice acting. From GW2Efficiency.

Narrower profession design, so that you can introduce more professions, but are separated from each other as to not influence one another too much like elite specs, where core skills/traits are affecting all, but broken on only 1. Make it so that you don't need a new character just respec and you are done.

Story missions like GW1, where you are taken in an instance on a world map (map that you also use for open world), have it tuned for groups, but also introduce solo mode where your companions are AI, like current Kannach, Rytlock,.... Tie group completions to achievements and introduce hard mode.

Achievements that are relevant, not the flood that we have in GW2. Look GW1, this keeps people doing stuff. Doing 100% on world map is boring, Doing 100% of missions with masters reward (see gw1) is kinda rewarding, even better in hard mode.

Dodge has to be reworked, it's too fundamental and too strong. It trivializes too many mechanics both in pve and pvp. It narrows the design they can do.

WvW, it's great, but noone plays it for what it is anymore. It thrives on combat system that shines in this particular setting.

Revitalize pvp population, i'm pretty sure GW2 won't be able to recover this population no matter what it does.

Different monetization.

Time to create content is really long and we have devs that complained how long things take. I remember multiple times that they are waiting for UI changes and how easy it is to break.

I remember people bouncing of the game even some friends of mine, because of floaty combat and well, when i think about it, i never could handle PvE in GW2, where it actually does feel a bit off. Also no ai group synergy, think enemy groups in GW1 where you had healers, frontliners, backliners,... GW2 it's ether a boss or useless.

Graphics.

Developers often like working on new codebase and will pitch for it.

 

Just some things off of my head. Some are more personal preferences, some are really stuff that can be improved. Anyway, if it disrupts community too much without bringing enough new blood to replace it or if it's technical issue or if it costs too much compared to simply making a new game it can be on the list.

Thank you for your response.

If I'm being honest, a lot of this does feel like it could be worked into GW2 if the desire and resourcing was there for Anet, especially things like new gameplay missions (sounds like better DRMs to me) or "more meaningful achievements," which I have seen from time to time as a complaint for SotO, or changes to the trait system. Some of it feels like they wouldn't touch it at all, GW2 or 3 regardless, like their monitization model. Pretty sure NCSoft would be the one forcing them to change that and it could be disastrous for much of their current playerbase. People don't want to pay a sub, and the "rise" in expansion price has been criticised. Making these potential changes for GW3 is enough to make a lot of people go "nah," if at the very least because they cannot afford it personally. I can't speak for competitive modes personally, but I recall they are actively trying to work on WvW. The biggest issue I imagine is in resourcing, which would be an issue with GW3, and it'd be a bigger issue if they try to maintain GW2 with content. 

Some of it might be easier to do with a GW3. Some of it can only be done with a GW3, like adjusting the playable race selection (don't touch my sylvari!). But is any of it enough to justify the cost of creating a new MMO and the inevitable new rift in the GW community?

[Ashantara.8731]

5 hours ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

This might be interesting:

There is no mention of ArenaNet, and the game seems to be developd in Asia. What makes you think there are ANet employees working on this? There are several UE5 games in development after all.

Edited January 2 by Ashantara.8731

[Tiviana.2650]

4 hours ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

There is no mention of ArenaNet, and the game seems to be developd in Asia. What makes you think there are ANet employees working on this? There are several UE5 games in development after all.

Yes but anet is working on something they are hiring for. But its many years off im sure.

[Ashantara.8731]

3 hours ago, Tiviana.2650 said:

Yes but anet is working on something they are hiring for.

I know, but there is no reason whatsoever to present the link @Cyninja.2954 posted as having a correlation to that. As I already stated in my previous response. NCsoft <> ANet.

[Wreckdum.8367]

On 1/1/2024 at 1:04 PM, SoftFootpaws.9134 said:

i wouldn't get invested in throne and liberty; you may want to check ncsoft's stock price and profit trends before playing any of their other games heavily. i wouldn't be surprised if arenanet is going to abandon ship at some point given how rapidly the company (ncsoft) is falling apart.

Imagine basing which games you play on a stock price that's completely irrelevant to the future of a game. Is NC in any danger of going bankrupt and cancelling all of their games. The answer is no. So why do you care what the stock is doing? Do you own some of it? If you did then I'd say ok well you have your own interest in mind. But if you don't, you're just looking for reasons to hate on T&L because nothing in the actual game will give you a valid argument.

[Cyninja.2954]

36 minutes ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

I know, but there is no reason whatsoever to present the link @Cyninja.2954 posted as having a correlation to that. As I already stated in my previous response. NCsoft <> ANet.

Horizon is a Western developer IP. There were rumors 1 year back that Arenanet was working on it. There were rumors that Arenanet is working on a mobile game. Horinzon MMO is confirmed to be PC and mobile (and I believe PS5). Horizon MMO will need a western port/developer and chances are that Arenanet is a support studio on this.

Granted not all of this is in that link, but given this new leak matches a TON of past leaks which were attributed to Arenanet and their second project, it would fit and I thought I'd share.

The other issue is that NCSoft is currently already developing multiple MMOs, including Aion 2 and Throne and Liberty. With Horizon, if we assume te rumors are true, it becomes at least 3 confirmed MMOs and eventually one has to ask how many MMOs is a developer willing to fund/invest in at the same time, which again makes GW3 unlikely.

Edited January 2 by Cyninja.2954

[Gorem.8104]

I was very surprised to see them update the games engine instead of working on gw3

However Anet is a very small team and a smaller team works on gw so unlikely to see anything besides what the few people working on the game now want the game to become, different to how it used to be.