Raids Need Hotjoin or somethin

[Ruufio.1496]

Ye. Just click join and you're in the raid and that's it. Just like hotjoin for SPvP used to exist. Like a format outside of LFG or something. A list that just always exists that people can just join. Should probably happen for dungeons and fractals too and whatever else. Maybe it's just LFG sucks. Relying on others to make and lead a party sucks. A predetermined list is probably better. "Oh raid_x has people in it let's join" Ye. Content seems dead and is a bad look because of LFG. Just show us how many people are playing what content and let us join them.

Edited January 22 by Ruufio.1496

[yann.1946]

How would you address role requirements? Like tank or muschroom eater?

 

[Jedrik.3109]

Making my own groups has worked for me. Little to no down time and no toxicity due to me being able to enforce civility with the kick button. Groups in the lfg fill fast contrary to popular belief. 

And as mentioned above and everytime this topic comes up, party composition is a bit out of the realm of what can be automated due to the variety of boons and mechanics. 

[TheQuickFox.3826]

I like the idea, but the content is not ideal for randoms by far. We have commanders for a reason. Things like making sure every subgroup has a healer, quickness and alacrity provider. Things like keeping an eye on special roles like a tower mesmer (W3), cannon dps (W1), hand kiter (W4) etc, etc.

Raids are a bit complicated for uncoordinated hotjoin.

In EU, LFG training is still used quite a bit. And that's where my short guide on getting into raids is written about. In NA, it seems that LFG is used less which is a pity so I fully understand the want for hotjoin. But I don't think it will work out as an usable resource.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

this is a guild-based game and most players do everything with their guilds. lfg is mostly just a backup for when enough players aren't online!

 

we do need an lfg overhaul, but i think hotjoin won't solve anything.

Edited January 22 by SoftFootpaws.9134

[Biziut.3594]

8 hours ago, Ruufio.1496 said:

Ye. Just click join and you're in the raid and that's it. Just like hotjoin for SPvP used to exist. Like a format outside of LFG or something. 

Idea proposed many times, always by someone who don't have an idea how raiding in this game works.

Don't get me wrong, theres nothing bad in that You don't raid and thus, don't know that.

Look at the sPvP that You put as an example. Does it really work there? It is a good tool to put two teams of totally mixed classes against each other for a quick fight, no arguing there. But now take one team of this total randoms and put it against an organized team of players, where each player have assigned role, play useful class and build that complement each other and knows the strategy. Who will win?

With hotjoin thing You propose, each fight will look exactly like this, with the boss being this perfectly organized team against Your mixed bunch of random classes, builds and knowledge of the encounter. 

The only thing that can give You a chance of winning the fight against this team of organized players with their roles and strategy (read: boss), is Your own team of organized players, each with assigned role, benefiting build and knowledge of the boss and the strategy. And the only things that can give You that, is current LFG system or/and commander tag. 

Hotjoin or autoLFG is just not able to give You optimal enviroment to even make a training run on the boss, let alone to score a kill. Why? Imagine yourself going with autoLFG system into raid. Now imagine me...

- Just hitted lv80. My gear mostly rares and some exotic.

- Time to try raids.

- Pick the role I want to perform, hmm I mamaged to keep this npc in escort event alive with berserker exotic staff on my guardian. I'll go with heal.

- Enter raid with few other peoples like I just described.

- Encounter starts. Resoults: full squad defeated or on the brink of death in the span of 10 seconds.

- But hey! It's just first try. We may not get a kill but we can train a little right? Can anyone explain this boss mechanic? 

- <Insert the cricket noise>

- Peoples leave, angry, but not at themselves for not preparing properly, but for the game. After all system that throws You into an instance, should optimalize Your team in a way that would give You a fair chance of winning right? And this system just isn't able to do that. LFG system is able to do that, becouse LFG system is You. You can learn the encounter throu videos now to have basic knowledge, You can get optimal build, pick a role You want to perform and You can REQUEST OTHERS TO PERFORM ROLES YOU NEED. AutoLFG that mix everything up, cannot give You that.

And don't think this is the end. As others already mentioned, each encounter usually have a special mechanic that have to be performed in order to survive the encounter.

Theres probably much more factors that come into play that I am not aware of, but I hope that this alone will convince You on how futile autoLFG would be when it comes to raiding, and the best part is that You can actually have a taste of the scenario I described above. Just open raid LFG titled "all welcome". This is basicly expirience autoLFG would give You, no need to even implement it.

And once You will be tired of wiping without even taking 5% of the boss health, You may leave and make another LFG. This time titled "Training run, need 2heal/sup, 2dps/sup, 6dps, know the basics". And now You will have a chance. If not for a kill than at least for a training that will benefit You. Want to make chances for a kill even higher? Arc dps and boon table, now You can see if any of the important buff is lacking and who should visit the training golem rather than the boss. Want it even easier AND avoid LFG completly? Find a community that teaches raiding and have expirience in doing so, there are couple of these, or at least find a guild that will have dedicated players willing to teach, organize, lead and most importantly LEARN the raiding as much as You do.

Thats all from me, hope You will be able to make it, and enjoy raiding as much as me and many other peoples do. Love and kisses 😘

[zeyeti.8347]

You ask for a meat burger and get a vegan one ... no ! It would be way more efficient to have a system who can make you join squads with your role stated and which wing , like in Final fantasy , you get automaticlly added to a squad requesting this role /this kp /this wing , but such a tool would be hard to implement , and i rather won't image all the bugs who will come with it , but definitly not randoms , going random roles , going random raids... would be a cluster****

Just imagine you need an alacheal and Todd who knows nothing about raids comes up with his "dps quickness with 25% quickness uptime" hell no. I have played with guys like that in fractals ... having 25% quickness uptime really s**** and make you feel like a slug... 

Raids are not dead , it's mostly a static or a guild thing , cause so you don't have to waist time on lfg . But the proposition from OP could just be an option , but not implemented for the whole lfg . Like an encounter is easy for your party and you can afford the chance to have a beginner for this content.

But if people want to raid/strike/fractals often , join a guild who accept beginners , you get trained by ppl knowing the stuff and get yourself pretty quickly in the state off 100% raid clear a week, waiting in the lfg 2 hours for having a training session adn maybe wiping all day on an encounter is indeed a bumer of a day.

Edited January 23 by zeyeti.8347

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

And just like in PvP you might end up with 3 roamers and 2 duelists in one team, because "I want to play this, I'm not swapping". Strikes have public modes functioning the same way as your proposal, I recommend checking out how popular it is.

[Cuks.8241]

On 1/23/2024 at 12:59 PM, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

And just like in PvP you might end up with 3 roamers and 2 duelists in one team, because "I want to play this, I'm not swapping". Strikes have public modes functioning the same way as your proposal, I recommend checking out how popular it is.

Not that I disagree but Strikes' public instance was not it. It was a kitten mess. It was actually exactly the opposite of a hotjoin. 

[Sobx.1758]

If it doesn't include roles -and special roles- then no, because it won't do anything positive for group building.

Edited January 31 by Sobx.1758

[Mell.4873]

On 1/23/2024 at 6:08 AM, yann.1946 said:

How would you address role requirements? Like tank or muschroom eater?

 

Allow people to post their role and content they run on the LFG. Rather than having a leader sift through the joining players asking. Other games have this system. 

The other option is you create and post your own group to an lfg hot join system. You can tick the profession and role you want in the group and they auto find players. 

Most content now days requires a group of five, 3 dps (one tank for raids) then 2 supports. Pretty simple format for an lfg auto queing system. 

Edited February 5 by Mell.4873

[Urud.4925]

I doubt it would work for raids. More experienced players could join a random squad, then quit after 1 single push once they see the overall performance (this even considering that you will find enough players willing to change character to fill a particular role, as usually this is almost always possible). But I understand it would make a new player less scared and more willing to try a new content.

I like to spend few words when I join a group, and in my experience in the MMORPGs with a hotjoin (like FF14 or ESO) no one ever talks, which is a quite sad and meh experience. But I don't think it will remove current groups in LFG, both exp and training groups, so as long as it's a new option, it don't see why not.

[Pinkeh.4207]

You can try Raid Academy and look out for pings.

 

Edited February 17 by Pinkeh.4207

[artharon.9276]

Raiding in gw2 is like real estate agencies in the UK. It's all unnecessary paperwork. I support the idea. 

[Mell.4873]

2 hours ago, artharon.9276 said:

Raiding in gw2 is like real estate agencies in the UK. It's all unnecessary paperwork. I support the idea. 

I think we will see a separate website again before GW2 change the LFG system. We already have many raid training discords.

Edited February 20 by Mell.4873

[Juan.6124]

I wouldn't want to join squads of people who need hotjoin to enter squads.

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

On 2/5/2024 at 12:33 AM, Mell.4873 said:

Most content now days requires a group of five, 3 dps (one tank for raids) then 2 supports. Pretty simple format for an lfg auto queing system. 

Tower, Cannons, Shrooms, Saboteur, Mortars, Reflect, Tower, HK, TD Push, Throw/CC on Eye, Pacman people on Eater, Green DPS and kite on Dhuum, Shields, kite on TL, Lamp, Q1 kite, Wyvern tank on Q1, Pylons on Q2. That's only Raids. 

There's a lot more than 3DPS and 2 supports, also most pug groups have one of the healers tank, not one of the DPS. The last time I saw someone other than a healer tank was me tanking as qDPS on Deimos last month.

If you want to suggest a better LFG then having knowledge in the content helps so that you won't be writing bogus.

EDIT:
Forgot about the roles on Statues, oops, that's even more.

Edited February 21 by IAmNotMatthew.1058

[Mell.4873]

1 hour ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

Tower, Cannons, Shrooms, Saboteur, Mortars, Reflect, Tower, HK, TD Push, Throw/CC on Eye, Pacman people on Eater, Green DPS and kite on Dhuum, Shields, kite on TL, Lamp, Q1 kite, Wyvern tank on Q1, Pylons on Q2. That's only Raids. 

There's a lot more than 3DPS and 2 supports, also most pug groups have one of the healers tank, not one of the DPS. The last time I saw someone other than a healer tank was me tanking as qDPS on Deimos last month.

If you want to suggest a better LFG then having knowledge in the content helps so that you won't be writing bogus.

EDIT:
Forgot about the roles on Statues, oops, that's even more.

I mean you kind of make my point for me, the current is to convoluted to even run as an entry level raid leader.

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

Just now, Mell.4873 said:

I mean you kind of make my point for me, the current is to convoluted to even run as an entry level raid leader.

By correcting your statement about team compositions not being as simple as the DPS-Support proving you don't know enough about the content to make suggestions about it?

[Mell.4873]

1 minute ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

By correcting your statement about team compositions not being as simple as the DPS-Support proving you don't know enough about the content to make suggestions about it?

The whole point of the post is suggesting "make your own group" is the answer to a lack of hot join or other types of LFG improvements in not a good counter.

All the other stuff we talked about is just tangents.

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

1 minute ago, Mell.4873 said:

The whole point of the post is suggesting "make your own group" is the answer to a lack of hot join or other types of LFG improvements in not a good counter.

All the other stuff we talked about is just tangents.

Can you quote me where I said anything about making your own group is the answer to having no hot join or improving the LFG in any way? 

Noone's telling you that LFG needs no improvements. People are telling you that your idea is kitten and won't work. You have proven that your own idea wouldn't work through you talking about your experience with all welcome groups.

I'm also telling you that you shouldn't be trying to suggest changes without even knowing how the content works, as proven by your comment about how most encounters are 6DPS and 4 support. If you make a hot join LFG with only those as option you won't be making something groundbreaking solution to all problems. You'd be creating a pointless time waste - or in worst case a bottleneck - in the LFG and call it solution. Roles still need filling, a squad that has "W2 | 6xDPS(4shroom), 2xQuick, 1xAlac, 1xHeal" is already to the point for a whole wing, a person joining can go Shroom as soon as they join. There won't be figuring out who does what before the boss. Removing the option to previously choose the specific roles a fight has and move that part of the organization to a point after the squad is already formed WITHOUT a Commander you're not solving issues, you won't make it easier, you'll make it more frustrating.
 

[Pinkeh.4207]

I only just realised there are two threads on the same topic.

 

 

Edited February 22 by Pinkeh.4207

[Sobx.1758]

4 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

The whole point of the post is suggesting "make your own group" is the answer to a lack of hot join or other types of LFG improvements in not a good counter.

All the other stuff we talked about is just tangents.

Were you so preoccupied with repeating the same thing no matter who writes what that you forgot what thread you're in? This is not the thread you made.

And no "all the other stuff we talked about" isn't "just tangents", it's a direct response to the proposal made in this thread. It's like you're not reading what people write and instead you're stuck with your idea of what you expect them to write.

[Mell.4873]

22 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Were you so preoccupied with repeating the same thing no matter who writes what that you forgot what thread you're in? This is not the thread you made.

And no "all the other stuff we talked about" isn't "just tangents", it's a direct response to the proposal made in this thread. It's like you're not reading what people write and instead you're stuck with your idea of what you expect them to write.

Oh yes I am in the wrong thread, meh I'm barely on the forums any more (or even GW2) so I wasn't paying attention. 

Arg we need something better this is my whole point. Many people leave this game due to balance but I'm leaving because of the god awful UI and LFG system. 

[Sobx.1758]

2 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

Oh yes I am in the wrong thread, meh I'm barely on the forums any more (or even GW2) so I wasn't paying attention. 

Arg we need something better this is my whole point. Many people leave this game due to balance but I'm leaving because of the god awful UI and LFG system. 

Pretty sure you're on the forum at least every other day, hardly "barely on the forums". You need to stop making these -and I can't stress this enough- awfully obvious excuses. First in your thread (which as far as I remember basically ended with "oh, I didn't address it because I'm just ranting now!") and now here about why you don't actually address what is being said to you ("because you're barely here so you didn't pay attention") 🙄 

You know you're wrong and you're still just bent on repeating the same thing that was already responded to and disproven by many users.

Edited February 23 by Sobx.1758