kp gate keep is poison to the mode

[Balsa.3951]

just made it and killed cm co 

easy content btw

but getting a group work is not easy

and asking kp makes it very hard to grow a group of ppl willing to do harder content.

i hope anet can find a solution since the experts try to gate keep much as possible for their  runs.

i get it many gw player are very bad very very but we need some way for ppl join groups withhout kp gate keeps.

perhaps a bonus for ppl to lead non kp ppl on their first try or finally implement a dps meter bcs as jt stands now there is a split between the good and bad player abd the one with low confidence.

im open for ideas 

Edited January 26 by Balsa.3951

[MercurialKuroSludge.8974]

24 minutes ago, Balsa.3951 said:

just made it and killed cm co 

easy content btw

but getting a group work is not easy

and asking kp makes it very hard to grow a group of ppl willing to do harder content.

i hope anet can find a solution since the experts try to gate keep much as possible for their fail runs.

i get it many gw player are very bad very very but we need some way for ppl join groups withhout kp gate keeps.

perhaps a bonus for ppl to lead non kp ppl on their first try or finally implement a dps meter bcs as jt stands now there is a split between the good and bad player abd the one with low confidence.

im open for ideas 

CO CM doesn't even HAVE KP on its own...

Do you know how regularly CO CM runs have at least 1 person who dies on 1st Green Arrow, becuz they've never even done/learned NM?
People STILL think the SF Team Change is saved by downing the person, instead of just hard-ccing them.
Boon role peeps who clearly don't know they are supposed to go pickup SAK, just coming in and lying about how they've done CM before, because all the tryhards keep downplaying how bad CO CM (your quote: "easy content btw") is in pugs, so the average peep thinks NM=CM.

How about some really cursed people,
Like 2k Toughness Death Magic Reaper?
Or some 40k+ AP guys who keeps talking about their throbbing ginormous benchmark, bragging about HTCM title, threatens the squad with "if healers dont pickup SAK Im leaving", then proceed to die REPEATEDLY on 1st Arrow on different pulls, because their nose is too far up their kitten and they just greed dps without thinking?

I would like to know why other people shudn't ask for KPs?
The method of "go in and replace trolls/noobs until good enough" is going to quickly erode any patience members of the group have, and dps meters wont fix it, because you still have to pull to measure that, when the goal of KP is literally to prevent the need of "yolo first adjust later".

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

1 hour ago, Balsa.3951 said:

just made it and killed cm co 

easy content btw

Glad people are starting to realize that just because something is CM it isn't necessearily extremely difficult.

1 hour ago, Balsa.3951 said:

but getting a group work is not easy

and asking kp makes it very hard to grow a group of ppl willing to do harder content.

i hope anet can find a solution since the experts try to gate keep much as possible for their fail runs.

The answer to these 3 lines is simple: Make your own squad. Considering the amount of complaints how bad KP is and how it locks out so many people it should be a no brainer that the solution is just.. making your own squad without asking for KP. 
Then again we both know that is not a solution, because there won't really be experienced people in those squads explaining and doing mechanics, right?

1 hour ago, Balsa.3951 said:

i get it many gw player are very bad very very but we need some way for ppl join groups withhout kp gate keeps.

Yes, that is one of the reasons people ask for KP. The issue is that if you see runs asking for KP it's experienced runs, groups new players shouldn't join.

[Balsa.3951]

29 minutes ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

Glad people are starting to realize that just because something is CM it isn't necessearily extremely difficult.

The answer to these 3 lines is simple: Make your own squad. Considering the amount of complaints how bad KP is and how it locks out so many people it should be a no brainer that the solution is just.. making your own squad without asking for KP. 
Then again we both know that is not a solution, because there won't really be experienced people in those squads explaining and doing mechanics, right?

Yes, that is one of the reasons people ask for KP. The issue is that if you see runs asking for KP it's experienced runs, groups new players shouldn't join.

i agree with u but we don't have much of a culture for training squads in this game. i think for the overall health of difficult content it would be good anet add something to reward training or new ppl try.

raids died or never took of for a reason. something should be done to narrow the gab if anet want cm in the vault.

[Jedrik.3109]

There is no gatekeeping. There is only those who refuse to test the limits of thier own comfort zone. I speak forcefully about this because I felt gatekept. But the only limits that were placed on me were by my own making. 

If you disagree with me it's fine. I then challenge you to do the only thing that can relieve this situation, tag up, make welcoming no or low requirements to your lfgs and be the change you want to see.

If you are on NA and can't find that place yet, reach out to me. My team of loving and caring raiders will find a time for you.

[Jedrik.3109]

10 minutes ago, Balsa.3951 said:

i agree with u but we don't have much of a culture for training squads in this game. i think for the overall health of difficult content it would be good anet add something to reward training or new ppl try.

raids died or never took of for a reason. something should be done to narrow the gab if anet want cm in the vault.

There is a training culture. It's failing is that it is all in discord communities and not advertised in game.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

i think they just have to keep putting instanced content in the vault, it will continue to draw newer players and the community will change!

Edited January 27 by SoftFootpaws.9134

[zeyeti.8347]

the answer is freaking simple :

-Get a static 

-Get a guild who accept beginners training on 'gatekeeped' content.

If you don't want to apply to one of those easyt tasks , you will always be gatekeeped.

12 hours ago, MercurialKuroSludge.8974 said:

CO CM doesn't even HAVE KP on its own...

Do you know how regularly CO CM runs have at least 1 person who dies on 1st Green Arrow, becuz they've never even done/learned NM?
People STILL think the SF Team Change is saved by downing the person, instead of just hard-ccing them.
Boon role peeps who clearly don't know they are supposed to go pickup SAK, just coming in and lying about how they've done CM before, because all the tryhards keep downplaying how bad CO CM (your quote: "easy content btw") is in pugs, so the average peep thinks NM=CM.

How about some really cursed people,
Like 2k Toughness Death Magic Reaper?
Or some 40k+ AP guys who keeps talking about their throbbing ginormous benchmark, bragging about HTCM title, threatens the squad with "if healers dont pickup SAK Im leaving", then proceed to die REPEATEDLY on 1st Arrow on different pulls, because their nose is too far up their kitten and they just greed dps without thinking?

I would like to know why other people shudn't ask for KPs?
The method of "go in and replace trolls/noobs until good enough" is going to quickly erode any patience members of the group have, and dps meters wont fix it, because you still have to pull to measure that, when the goal of KP is literally to prevent the need of "yolo first adjust later".

Totally agree , trust is good but control is better , a lot of ppl are lying and sneak their way trough content without even watching a video or asking about the mechanics , i tried Co Cm with randoms for the 250 vault money , and what a nightmare , first try we die from the cc not being done ( i was virt with Moa + f3 + sword 4 + focus 4) , then one random dies from the green arrow , then we had 3 ppl staying in the red puddle at 75% and wondering why they died (i mean you have a glowing red puddle pulsing storm who looks like you gonna have all kinds of deadly viruses of the world and you stay in...) , we had a dps doing less damage than the healer ... ppl say it is quite teh experience to play with toxic elitist ppl , i will say it's quite the experience to play with ppl who say they own the whole game but doesnt know kitten, it's cringe but it becomes intoxicating at some point (maybe that's why we became toxic ?)

And some ppl are here wondering why some of us gatekeep these content , i will say it : because some ppl are lazy, self entitled (waste time of maybe 9 ppl who knows), are lyers and leechers.

And com is entitled to ask whatever he wants , even 6969 bananas if he feels so, you don't approve ? then make your own training group , wait 1 hour for it to fill , fail once , look 3 ppl leave (cause they thought they would be carried or doesnt feel like carrying) and fail it all day long...

I will say it again : get a guild or static ... freaking simple !

I mean , fella just up my comment has even an invitation for raiding ... so don't tell me ther is no guild recruiting newbies for endgame , you have one just up your noose.

want to raid, but don't have a clue? join sigh; you still won't have a clue, but at least you'll raid! here so you cannot miss it .... ty SoftFootpaws.9134 , good call and funny.

Edited January 27 by zeyeti.8347

[zeyeti.8347]

11 hours ago, Balsa.3951 said:

i agree with u but we don't have much of a culture for training squads in this game. i think for the overall health of difficult content it would be good anet add something to reward training or new ppl try.

raids died or never took of for a reason. something should be done to narrow the gab if anet want cm in the vault.

That's already done , Emboldened mode for raids , strikes in story mode (even easier with aurene node), strike normal , then cm. An easy mode for all raids should be really appreciated indeed (with a cm for those who lack one) but let's face it , anet isn't going into raid withrisking  the spaghetti code mess it will imply , we have enough bugs with every content update..

If you know the fight in normal , you know 75% of the fight in cm , bosses have just more hp, has maybe 2 more mechanics , and some older mechanics are deadlier or faster , just as example you know the difference between dhumm normal and cm ?

cm has this : boss with 20% more hp , a mini dhuum running around catching people and killing them over time , reapers does not benefit from +xxx % extra healing , that's all ....

And raids are not dying , as always and as i repeat it endlessly : it's a guild and static thing , people don't like it cause you have to find 9 ppl with dedicated specific roles , you don't have those problems with a guild or a static , my guild does a full clear almost every week , and we have beginners with us.

Why do you think other stuff is easy to fill ? fractals require 1 heal ,1 supp , 3 dps . Then you have qadim 1 , we require : 1 tank boonhealer , 1 qadim kite , 1dps lamp , 1 boonheal , 2 support who complements the two boonheal , 1 portal and focus 4 grab mesmer (cause ppl don't want to do the puzzle jump) and the rest dps power cause we ain't doing resolution firepilar... not easy to find ...

[Dadnir.5038]

5 hours ago, SoftFootpaws.9134 said:

the community will change!

Ah! That's a funny line you got here!

Edited January 27 by Dadnir.5038

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

14 hours ago, Balsa.3951 said:

i agree with u but we don't have much of a culture for training squads in this game. i think for the overall health of difficult content it would be good anet add something to reward training or new ppl try.

raids died or never took of for a reason. something should be done to narrow the gab if anet want cm in the vault.

At the moment of writing thiss, there are 2 training squads for Strikes and 1 for Raids. There is also a CO CM run asking for no KP. On top of that RTI alone has 10 trainings and 2 practice runs scheduled.

There is a culture for training and the fact that training or no KP squads fill up quickly proves that people are looking for them.

[Krzysztof.5973]

The biggest "gate keep" issue is with the vast chasm between average gw2 enjoyer and someone who raids regularly for example. That is why people ask for KP. Sometimes you get players who are competent and can fit into into many roles and some other time you get people who can barely read and probably need a fulltime caretaker.  

Edited January 30 by Krzysztof.5973

[Tiviana.2650]

CO CM is a gateway cm, im willing to bet ToF will be closer to olc or ko cm difficulty, not extremely hard but difficult. I dont think anet will ever put anything in the game like HTCM again. Even though that was a hell of a fight with interesting phases 

[zeyeti.8347]

13 hours ago, Tiviana.2650 said:

CO CM is a gateway cm, im willing to bet ToF will be closer to olc or ko cm difficulty, not extremely hard but difficult. I dont think anet will ever put anything in the game like HTCM again. Even though that was a hell of a fight with interesting phases 

Co cm is considered the easiest cm off all strikes , first time doing it we going into almost blind and we succeeded after 3 tries of 7-8 minutes ... but we had some hard carries with us , hscg can almost trivialized this content by mass porting ppl in danger while downed.

And i do really hope Tof will be more difficult than that , the normal mode has a very interesting mechanic with involving the choice of which add we must kill to not improve boss mechanic x or y.

[Frozenblade.6039]

What if we created an easier Raid mode with less rewards?

This gives users a general understanding of the instance and allows for further exploration through the use of simpler and weaker boss features. We can experiment with the Raid build in dungeons and other instances, but because the requirements to enter a Raid instance are so high, we have no idea how to play one.

I've been playing Guild Wars 2 for a long time, and I've played every game mode but raids. I'm curious about this mode and would like to try it. We can access the original raid modes if we can gain experience with the simpler ones. How do you feel?

[yoni.7015]

2 hours ago, Frozenblade.6039 said:

What if we created an easier Raid mode

It’s already in the game, it’s called emboldened mode. 

[Dean.3056]

Those who are motivated to get into these game modes will find a solution, whether its by scholar or by training. Every experienced raider started with 0 kp and had the same problem, this issue is not GW2 unique problem. Just because the casual audience who 111111111 everything wants to take a bite this does not mean that kp should be eliminated.

Anet mistake wasn't kp but not offering easy or entry level modes to the raids not to mention that the LFG system doesn't help either.

[TheQuickFox.3826]

KP are a player problem. I can't blame experienced players who just want to farm and smooth runs to find ways to play with players of their own experience level. At the same time I can't blame new players from being annoyed by being locked out of so many groups. Not everyone has the social/management skills to organize their own groups. I was able to get around these problems by joining a guild that runs this content for new players and trains them, and I was able to find training groups for (emboldened or not emboldened) raids in LFG. But I know not everyone is able to find these (anymore) in LFG.

[Juan.6124]

Make your own group 

[Frozenblade.6039]

On 2/2/2024 at 3:09 PM, yoni.7015 said:

It’s already in the game, it’s called emboldened mode. 

It is not actively used by players. You need parties to gather up for that. It needs to be in looking for group mode.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

On 2/2/2024 at 6:09 AM, yoni.7015 said:

It’s already in the game, it’s called emboldened mode. 

i think emboldened mode is a far cry from easy mode. it not only presents the entire set of mechanics but it also encourages wiping, which is the opposite of learning to do mechanics, and then eventually you get enough damage and survivability that you don't need to do alot of them at all.

 

its like giving every family a sport utility vehicle to avoid investing in school busses, bus routes and drivers.

Edited February 10 by SoftFootpaws.9134

[Cyninja.2954]

So, it's been not even 2 weeks since (January 30th):

On 1/30/2024 at 6:43 AM, Balsa.3951 said:

cm was a fun experience.

kp masters gate keep it sadly but i made my own group and succeeded.

side note later on tried to join ant group after i had the cm done and was kicked because not enough kp.

i feel a little ridiculous how ppl still don't let people join who with proof finished a cm because they don't have kp from raids.

anyhow hope we get more people do non kp runs since its not that hard and i myself will do more non kp runs for other people. hope that can ease this elitist cm community.

How are things Balsa? Are you still running a weekly training and getting new people to complete the strike? Have you completed the strike since then again on CM yourself?

You were very adamant of criticizing players which clear CMs regularly about using KP. Have you been a force of change here?

Remember: if you aren't training new players, you are part of the problem. 👍

Edited February 10 by Cyninja.2954

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

9 hours ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

So, it's been not even 2 weeks since (January 30th):

How are things Balsa? Are you still running a weekly training and getting new people to complete the strike? Have you completed the strike since then again on CM yourself?

You were very adamant of criticizing players which clear CMs regularly about using KP. Have you been a force of change here?

Remember: if you aren't training new players, you are part of the problem. 👍

I'm sure we both know the answer.
Still, it's better than complaining about groups requiring X amount of experience and people without X amount of experience being bad in the same rant, like we had some months ago.

[Pinkeh.4207]

If you dont want to be gated, form your own squad.

 

Gating exists because there is a significant chasm between new and experienced. An experienced group of raiders will clear wings 1-4 + cms in 2 hours where as a training group might spend 2 hours on the first boss of wing 2.

Edited February 16 by Pinkeh.4207

[Mell.4873]

20 hours ago, Pinkeh.4207 said:

If you dont want to be gated, form your own squad.

 

Gating exists because there is a significant chasm between new and experienced. An experienced group of raiders will clear wings 1-4 + cms in 2 hours where as a training group might spend 2 hours on the first boss of wing 2.

How about a system that doesn't revolve around forming your own squad to do content. People don't have to form there own 5 man group to que for PvP.