UI: This is NOT ok

[AliamRationem.5172]

1 hour ago, Parasite.5389 said:

Might is a Boon, it's on it's own seperate line... again, I don't think people understood what i was saying.

OP (or rather the person OP is leeching off reddit from) is complaining about Effects, Not Boons, Not Conditions;
Other than a few class mechanic effects like Distortion, or some Venom skills which can be gained from multiple skills and might want to be tracked during combat, most of the icons on that bar are food buffs, banners, and bonuses for stuff like XP and Karma.

now sure, it's cluttered and could be tidied up a little, but it's not such a travesty that it's "NOT ok (rawr rawr, gruff angry voice: game is literally unplayable)"

Call it whatever you want.  It doesn't do a good job of displaying class buffs like Weave self and soon the projectiles for ele pistol.  I think it should be fixed.

[Sobx.1758]

Split it into categories, maybe even set each boon in its own static place (similarly to http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/ ), make the ones that are inactive semi-transparent, light up the ones active. Separate "cluster" for class effects could be without set positions. Add a tick box in settings menu to "enable dragging" so players can put them wherever they want on their screen. The remaining banner/booster/special effects remain grouped together (these don't need static places) and are also available to be put in any place the player wants on the screen.

[Lucy.3728]

If I want to know whether my buff consumables are still running... I have to mount :s

If I want to read some buffs or debuffs or traits on enemies (like bosses) that I don't know, then I can forget about it because there's always something ticking that makes this info field slip and then I get an explanation about something else.

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

GW1 had customizable UI, allowing you to resize, move and even disable some elements or straight up create cursed UI. If I could declutter my UI in GW2 the same way I could do it in GW1 that'd be probably one of the best QoL changes.

[Gehenna.3625]

43 minutes ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

GW1 had customizable UI, allowing you to resize, move and even disable some elements or straight up create cursed UI. If I could declutter my UI in GW2 the same way I could do it in GW1 that'd be probably one of the best QoL changes.

GW1 was an entirely different game though. Much simpler and no persistent maps outside of cities. Also the UI was much simpler. So comparing the two isn't really a useful comparison. The thing is that you had 12 players max in one map in GW1. In GW2 you can have over 100 (like WvW maps). So performance is a much bigger issue in GW2 (which is the reason iirc why Anet has gone with a fixed UI)

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

58 minutes ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

GW1 was an entirely different game though. Much simpler and no persistent maps outside of cities. Also the UI was much simpler. So comparing the two isn't really a useful comparison. The thing is that you had 12 players max in one map in GW1. In GW2 you can have over 100 (like WvW maps). So performance is a much bigger issue in GW2 (which is the reason iirc why Anet has gone with a fixed UI)

Yes, the UI is much simpler if I purposefully remove or hide elements I don't need. I could easily make GW2's UI simple compared to GW1 if I show all the elements.
GW2 has UI elements that are not needed majority of the times, since it bundles them together, such as the "Objectives" option being festivals, events, content guide and story or how the Skill bar is skills, health, boons, buffs, conditions AND XP BAR.
In the screenshots I posted you can see how I have my UI spread out and is clear most of the times, but I can make it cluttered by turning on things that are unnecesseary, or making things pointlessly big. 
On top of that GW1 not being proper open world has nothing to do with the UI. If performance was such an issue in the first place we couldn't reach this much of junk on our screens in GW2 where the buff bar clips with the map and the entire right side of your screen is just events, festivals and map.

[Gehenna.3625]

44 minutes ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

Yes, the UI is much simpler if I purposefully remove or hide elements I don't need. I could easily make GW2's UI simple compared to GW1 if I show all the elements.
GW2 has UI elements that are not needed majority of the times, since it bundles them together, such as the "Objectives" option being festivals, events, content guide and story or how the Skill bar is skills, health, boons, buffs, conditions AND XP BAR.
In the screenshots I posted you can see how I have my UI spread out and is clear most of the times, but I can make it cluttered by turning on things that are unnecesseary, or making things pointlessly big. 
On top of that GW1 not being proper open world has nothing to do with the UI. If performance was such an issue in the first place we couldn't reach this much of junk on our screens in GW2 where the buff bar clips with the map and the entire right side of your screen is just events, festivals and map.

That's the thing though with a fixed UI. Everything in it has to be in it all of the time and at the same location. So unless you accept a performance loss this can't be changed. That's why I mentioned the number of players per map because that's where the performance needs to be. In SWTOR, for example, their engine could barely handle 16 players (raids are 8 or 16 player) in the same map so there it's much worse. But that's where I learned that everything that's attached to your character info costs performance essentially.

I assume that that's something that goes for games in general. Their engine in SWTOR was just crap from the basis on up but that's a different matter. So the way I understand it that everything that is customisable has an effect on the performance because it has to be loaded per character. And when you have fixed framework you don't need to do that. Dunno if I understand it correctly but it does sound right to me.

And that's why GW1 and GW2 are so different because performance is not such a big issue when a game is much simpler. 

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

1 hour ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

That's the thing though with a fixed UI. Everything in it has to be in it all of the time and at the same location. So unless you accept a performance loss this can't be changed. That's why I mentioned the number of players per map because that's where the performance needs to be. In SWTOR, for example, their engine could barely handle 16 players (raids are 8 or 16 player) in the same map so there it's much worse. But that's where I learned that everything that's attached to your character info costs performance essentially.

I assume that that's something that goes for games in general. Their engine in SWTOR was just crap from the basis on up but that's a different matter. So the way I understand it that everything that is customisable has an effect on the performance because it has to be loaded per character. And when you have fixed framework you don't need to do that. Dunno if I understand it correctly but it does sound right to me.

And that's why GW1 and GW2 are so different because performance is not such a big issue when a game is much simpler. 

What kind of performance loss are you going on about? We are not playing games on Pentium 4s anymore mate. 

[Gehenna.3625]

5 hours ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

What kind of performance loss are you going on about? We are not playing games on Pentium 4s anymore mate. 

I just remember devs talking about this a long time ago, how character data needs to be loaded into a map and the more data it is the more the map gets taxed. Like when more players enter a map. And things that are interactive take the most. It's just what I remember but I could be remembering it wrong. That's why I say "iirc" but I'm not tech savvy. It's just that I kept going with it because people didn't seem to correct me on that. I know that SWTOR devs said something like that and I think I remember GW2 devs saying something similar but I wouldn't put money on that myself. And they're completely different engines so who knows.

But it's also the only reason I can think of why Anet has stuck to a fixed UI over the years. Like discussed, in GW1 you had a customisable UI. If you can tell me what other reasons there are for Anet to stick to not having that in GW2, I'm happy to hear them. I just have this memory of devs saying this but as with all memories they can be flawed. I'll be the first to admit that. In fact, I was hoping for someone to either confirm or deny it.

Edited February 18 by Gehenna.3625

[Cuks.8241]

If we could play true open mmorpgs with just as many players and fully customizable UI 20 years ago, I think my comp and net will handle it today. 

I mean we have overlays that actively read combat log and I guess some also API, display a ton of info, right now, fully customizable. Performance is not an issue. They would probably just need to do a lot of redevelopment because they went and hardcoded it too much. And they think it's not a worthy investment. Which I don't understand fully because if you look at (mmo)rpgs that allow modding, the most popular mods are usually UI mods (and no I don't want mods, I want an UI that would be considered standard for the last 20 years).   

[Apolo.5942]

This is you screen during combat 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/jB4EGpwkS9hTbqG36

The magenta is your field of view vision during combat.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/kyWnyWB3zSUkGoq86

Notice what is NOT INSIDE the cirle?. EVERYTHING you need to keep track of.

Critical boons like Alac or Quick -> Outside your field of view.
Critical Energy like mechanics -> Outside your field of view.

Critical CDs -> Outside your field of view.

Critical Debuffs/Conditions -> Outside your field of view.

This does not really matter when you can SPAM things, your are just keyboard bashing anyhow, but it is a pain in the behind when things take pressision or timing.

Please, its is really understandable that you can not make a one size fits all UI with all the diferent mechanics. But wow solved this almost 3 decades ago now, by opening up the UI for users to customize.
You already have the API.

Its only a matter of you choosing to do so.

 

Edited February 22 by Apolo.5942

[Parasite.5389]

World of Warcraft was released in 2004

[Apolo.5942]

Just now, Parasite.5389 said:

World of Warcraft was released in 2004

My bad, there fixed it, not 30 years ago, but 20... thats much much better...

[Shuzuru.3651]

You need to upgrade your field of view, then.

I mean, assuming you kinda want to leave the center open to see the action, what you will basically do is squishing the game ui to the side of the center, instead of the side of the screen.

So basically, the same as now, just closer.

[Kiki.9450]

I hate those addons in WoW. I don't want a bunch of UI crap floating around me while I'm trying to actively pay attention to the encounter. A distracted, dead DPS does zero DPS.

However, I do agree that UI customisation is beneficial to the player. You are a part of a group that desires all the combat info right there next to your character. I'm part of a group that manages to keep track of what I need to keep track of without letting it distract me at inopportune moments.

I like the customisability that Dragonflight has brought to WoW and I'd like something similar for GW2. You only need addons if you're a hardcore "gotta micromanage everything about my combat" player, or if you really don't like the UI design Blizzard uses (e.g., the bezel around the map). 

Also I find it funny we keep mentioning that "Blizzard solved this a bazillion years ago!" but don't mention that Anet had a built-in, no-addons-required, customisable HUD in GW1. Honest question: have they ever spoken about why they decided to dial back HUD customisation?

[Crono.4197]

This not WoW, not everything should be like WoW.

[Astralporing.1957]

Covering the center of the screen with UI elements and looking more at the various displays than at the field and enemies is exactly the situation Anet did not want to see in this game.

[frazazel.7501]

50 minutes ago, Kiki.9450 said:

Also I find it funny we keep mentioning that "Blizzard solved this a bazillion years ago!" but don't mention that Anet had a built-in, no-addons-required, customisable HUD in GW1. Honest question: have they ever spoken about why they decided to dial back HUD customisation?

I was going to say this same thing. They did a great job of this with GW1. I guess there's more class-specific stuff going on with GW2's UI that probably makes it a little bit harder if they weren't planning to make it customizable from the beginning. I would love it if they would put in the time.

Just now, Astralporing.1957 said:

Covering the center of the screen with UI elements and looking more at the various displays than at the field and enemies is exactly the situation Anet did not want to see in this game.

You're right. They want you to look at a screen covered in overlapping special effects from a hundred different players' skills, outfits and ultra-rare infusions.

[Mewone.3247]

You could already do this in Guild Wars 1 that is why it has been changed. Everything needed to be different for Guild Wars 2.

[Astralporing.1957]

1 hour ago, frazazel.7501 said:

You're right. They want you to look at a screen covered in overlapping special effects from a hundred different players' skills, outfits and ultra-rare infusions.

Well, that was the reason they themselves gave when people initially asked about UI being more locked than in GW1. And as for overlapping special effects... initially there weren't as many. Att some point Anet even did a significant reduction of skill visuals to help with visibility (ele skills, for example, were changed quite extensively). Overall community response was strongly negative to this however. The same with player interest in skins - those with flashy visuals and over the top SFX attached always ended up being vastly more popular than the more down to the earth ones. So, if you want to blame someone for the SFX spam, you now know where to point your fingers.

[Omega.6801]

This seems to be the new topic of the week... well at least it's one I can get behind for once. 🤷‍♂️

 

Edited February 22 by Omega.6801

[Lucy.3728]

How does it look in wow?

All I know about that game is its name.

I'm for better visibility of important buffs and debuffs.

Edited February 22 by Lucy.3728

[Apolo.5942]

2 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Covering the center of the screen with UI elements and looking more at the various displays than at the field and enemies is exactly the situation Anet did not want to see in this game.

They dint want a trinity either and we all know how that turned out.

The fact they dont want it, is not exactly a good point.

[Apolo.5942]

34 minutes ago, Lucy.3728 said:

How does it look in wow?

All I know about that game is its name.

I'm for better visibility of important buffs and debuffs.

 

Lieterally, however you want it to look.

[zinkz.7045]

14 minutes ago, Apolo.5942 said:

They dint want a trinity either and we all know how that turned out.

How it turned out is they turned a decent combat system into a trash one. Changing the UI could also work out just as badly.

Edited February 22 by zinkz.7045