Opinion: Disable gliding/warclaw in contested objectives

[DocM.5387]

Hello, i don't usually post in the forums so i don't know if this topic has already been discussed/suggested, if so i apologize.

Maybe it's an unpopular opinion, but i think that the warclaw and gliding  unbalance the fights too much towards the players defending an objective. Gliding in particular can be used in combat and gives quite an unfair movement advantage in towers/keeps.

Imo they should be tools only to traverse the map faster to get to a place, but when you are in a territory/objective where a fight is happening they should be disabled to make all players on equal grounds. Thoughts?

Edited February 26 by DocM.5387

[disForm.2837]

This has been discussed multiple times over the years. 

As it is, many players barely defend objectives outside SMC because there's no incentive. Without gliding and warclaw, even less people would try to defend. 

Attackers are usually numerically superior. Why nerf defenders even more? 

Then you have a lot of practical problems, when do you disable warclaw,  and glide? near the objective, on the objective itself, on the map section as a whole?(oh boy, the crashes). 

And finally, it's not going to happen for the simple reason it's not worth the development time, it doesn't add anything to the game mode and definitely doesn't bring more engagement.

[Zyreva.1078]

And watch an entire zerg - that feels the need to show up with 20+ to defend NE tower on alpine border against 2-4 players - plummet to death? Yes, please!

2 hours ago, disForm.2837 said:

Attackers are usually numerically superior. Why nerf defenders even more?

Is that really the case? And if so, ever wondered why so few small grps attempt to attack defended objectives?

2 hours ago, disForm.2837 said:

Then you have a lot of practical problems, when do you disable warclaw,  and glide?

Easy solution, just get rid of them entirely.

Edited February 26 by Zyreva.1078

[Chiral.8915]

20 minutes ago, Zyreva.1078 said:

And watch an entire zerg - that feels the need to show up with 20+ to defend NE tower on alpine border against 2-4 players - plummet to death? Yes, please!

Is that really the case? And if so, ever wondered why so few small grps attempt to attack defended objectives?

Easy solution, just get rid of them entirely.

lol....RIP desert BL

[TheGrimm.5624]

3 hours ago, DocM.5387 said:

Hello, i don't usually post in the forums so i don't know if this topic has already been discussed/suggested, if so i apologize.

Maybe it's an unpopular opinion, but i think that the warclaw and gliding  unbalance the fights too much towards the players defending an objective. Gliding in particular can be used in combat and gives quite an unfair movement advantage in towers/keeps.

Imo they should be tools only to traverse the map faster to get to a place, but when you are in a territory/objective where a fight is happening they should be disabled to make all players on equal grounds. Thoughts?

These have come up but welcome to Forum Wars 2. 

No, I would prefer that we add in more tools and options in the sandbox versus remove them personally. Plus you remove the fun of using Bali to kill gliders or knockback and other CC and watch them fall. Warclaw has already been nerfed to the bone and was an a type of answer to before its time where players wanted more balance in class movement to transverse the map and people were asking why was their class meant to fall behind and have to face the roamers that were chasing behind the zerg.

In either case gliding in defensive zones means more strategy and creates another reason to hold an objective. You want to slow a response to a part of a map, pre-take glide points from defenders blocking that easy access before your main assault begins.  

On the options of adding versus removing. I could see a fun new airborne trap being added that is like a proximity bomb in the air that could be deployed with supply that would trigger an explosion with a knockback that was meant to be used to counter gliders in an area. Again ask for additions, could see, ask for more just removals, not as much in favor persoanlly.

[XenesisII.1540]

No point to this, gliding is a miniscule part of combat.

If you want to disable mounts for players in their own territories, then they should also disable mounts when you're in enemy territory, how's that for fair?

 

 

[kash.9213]

1 hour ago, Zyreva.1078 said:

And watch an entire zerg - that feels the need to show up with 20+ to defend NE tower on alpine border against 2-4 players - plummet to death? Yes, please!

Is that really the case? And if so, ever wondered why so few small grps attempt to attack defended objectives?

Easy solution, just get rid of them entirely.

Good on that zerg for stopping by and likely bringing supply. That 2-4 can be ahead of a zerg anyway.

Maybe it's just my matchups but attackers usually have more and that normally continues to be the case even when response gets there. It will be the flip side of that if a guild or tag has a lot of killers on them and they want to farm for a while before finally killing the lord. 

This game mode and these maps don't have enough going on to scrap the few fun elements of map travel. You can run instead for that classic feel if you want. 

[Zyreva.1078]

5 minutes ago, kash.9213 said:

Maybe it's just my matchups but attackers usually have more and that normally continues to be the case even when response gets there.

I think the whole "attackers always outnumbering defenders" narrative is just a fallacy. It is hardly memorable if a few attackers get run over by a defending zerg, so people forget about it quickly, even tho it happens all the time. On the other hand outnumbered defenders usually have a lot more time to think about that unstoppable force at their gate, so that situation stays in mind.

Fact is - defenders have quite a few advantages (that got bigger and bigger over the years!) and the bigger that advantage, the less likely attackers are willing to show up with more or less even numbers. The best and longest lasting sieges happened when we didn't have all those defender buffs that we have now.

14 minutes ago, kash.9213 said:

This game mode and these maps don't have enough going on to scrap the few fun elements of map travel.

That's because mounts killed most that goes beyond "afk autorun to your destination" with little to no concern of what might happen on the way.

[kash.9213]

22 minutes ago, Zyreva.1078 said:

I think the whole "attackers always outnumbering defenders" narrative is just a fallacy. It is hardly memorable if a few attackers get run over by a defending zerg, so people forget about it quickly, even tho it happens all the time. On the other hand outnumbered defenders usually have a lot more time to think about that unstoppable force at their gate, so that situation stays in mind.

Fact is - defenders have quite a few advantages (that got bigger and bigger over the years!) and the bigger that advantage, the less likely attackers are willing to show up with more or less even numbers. The best and longest lasting sieges happened when we didn't have all those defender buffs that we have now.

That's because mounts killed most that goes beyond "afk autorun to your destination" with little to no concern of what might happen on the way.

Defenders have the advantage, but they don't always care or even show up. Of course, we're talking about an average so we're going to see a little of everything, but you could be right about how it's perceived. 

Attackers aren't going to roll up on some tower that has more people than they do. They might be looking for a fight but for the most part, attackers will set up, response comes or it doesn't, attackers run or they don't have to run if not enough of a response. 

Mounts didn't kill anything. The game mode and its players killed whatever you feel is missing. Mounts have nothing to do with WvW maps being mostly empty, lifeless, and featureless. 

[Zyreva.1078]

8 minutes ago, kash.9213 said:

Mounts didn't kill anything. The game mode and its players killed whatever you feel is missing. Mounts have nothing to do with WvW maps being mostly empty, lifeless, and featureless. 

The game shapes the players ...

[Sugar Min.5834]

6 hours ago, DocM.5387 said:

Hello, i don't usually post in the forums so i don't know if this topic has already been discussed/suggested, if so i apologize.

Maybe it's an unpopular opinion, but i think that the warclaw and gliding  unbalance the fights too much towards the players defending an objective. Gliding in particular can be used in combat and gives quite an unfair movement advantage in towers/keeps.

Imo they should be tools only to traverse the map faster to get to a place, but when you are in a territory/objective where a fight is happening they should be disabled to make all players on equal grounds. Thoughts?

This is one of the two main reasons (the other bad matchups) why I left WvW 2 ~ 3 years ago and still glad that I did. The calls for nerfs and removal of this and that never ends. Everyone wants an easy way out, they don't want to learn, don't want to adapt and they don't want to have fun 🤷‍♀️ We have very limited roles in this mode because ANet continue to kill more scouts and defenders by nerfing/removing defence rewards.

Oh wait, maybe running is too fast too why not remove them in our own territories, can only walk. You are not allowed to run away from attacks. Also, some elite skills are too powerful, let's remove them in own territories too.  Anyhing else? 🍦

Edited February 26 by Sugar Min.5834

[SweetPotato.7456]

11 hours ago, DocM.5387 said:

Hello, i don't usually post in the forums so i don't know if this topic has already been discussed/suggested, if so i apologize.

Maybe it's an unpopular opinion, but i think that the warclaw and gliding  unbalance the fights too much towards the players defending an objective. Gliding in particular can be used in combat and gives quite an unfair movement advantage in towers/keeps.

Imo they should be tools only to traverse the map faster to get to a place, but when you are in a territory/objective where a fight is happening they should be disabled to make all players on equal grounds. Thoughts?

You may use the search function to find if topic has be discuss.
both things you want remove are good for defenders. ... I am not sure how removing them is going to put players on equal ground you know, cos enemy can't glide if the objective isn't theirs.
Maybe remove the walls, you know, that should make things equal.

[Vomact.5693]

No gliding, no mount ? ...

Just go to play EOTM ...

[Gazrul.3086]

Erm, no thanks. EotM is a pain in the kitten to traverse because of no mounts and no gliding. Imagine having to traverse the red border without them. Yikes...

[Santo.2419]

This is just terrain advantage, this type of use of glide can be used in any part of that captured area if u have the glide privileges. 

This is just the advantage of owning that section, and everyone has been on both sides of it, so all evens out.

 

[Gorani.7205]

I'd rather see Ballistae #4 get its CD reduced to 15 sec and work on mounted players as well.

[XenesisII.1540]

Apparently no one should have advantages for owning something, there should be no obstructions to the loot. Might as well not allow siege to be built in structures too, wait lets delete defensive siege, only rams are allowed in wvw, or better yet just have open gates or no walls too, just like the southern border while we're requesting this. 😏

[TheGrimm.5624]

On 3/2/2024 at 1:20 PM, XenesisII.1540 said:

Apparently no one should have advantages for owning something, there should be no obstructions to the loot. Might as well not allow siege to be built in structures too, wait lets delete defensive siege, only rams are allowed in wvw, or better yet just have open gates or no walls too, just like the southern border while we're requesting this. 😏

lol. I admit, been enjoying this week since it's made me grumpy and go old school style. Vendetta has been high. Created a light defense inner Fire keep and after repelling 12 attacks had to lmao. Was good times. Though this week also makes me question initial placements again. But been enjoying the week overall. 

 

[TheGrimm.5624]

On 2/27/2024 at 2:10 AM, Vomact.5693 said:

No gliding, no mount ? ...

Just go to play EOTM ...

EotM, still an awesome map.  Add mounts, pips and such, but not gliding unless it replaces on of the other ABLs.

[gloflop.3510]

Imagine you are somewhere nicely gliding and suddenly the object gets in fight. You are then falling down to death. Do you really want this?

[Dawdler.8521]

5 hours ago, gloflop.3510 said:

Imagine you are somewhere nicely gliding and suddenly the object gets in fight. You are then falling down to death. Do you really want this?

Fully depends on whether there is 50 people next to me.

if so, then yes 😏

[Ashen.2907]

7 hours ago, gloflop.3510 said:

Imagine you are somewhere nicely gliding and suddenly the object gets in fight. You are then falling down to death. Do you really want this?

My guild squad was rushing to defend Air Keep, gliding to it from the camp when Air flipped while we were in mid flight. Probably only 25 or 30 of us when it happened but we all fell to our deaths. Absolutely hilarious and we still joke about gravity being the most dangerous foe on that map.

[TheGrimm.5624]

1 hour ago, Ashen.2907 said:

My guild squad was rushing to defend Air Keep, gliding to it from the camp when Air flipped while we were in mid flight. Probably only 25 or 30 of us when it happened but we all fell to our deaths. Absolutely hilarious and we still joke about gravity being the most dangerous foe on that map.

Been there, done that and have the t-shirt. And agree it's funny every time. 

[MedievalThings.5417]

On 2/26/2024 at 10:01 AM, DocM.5387 said:

Hello, i don't usually post in the forums so i don't know if this topic has already been discussed/suggested, if so i apologize.

Maybe it's an unpopular opinion, but i think that the warclaw and gliding  unbalance the fights too much towards the players defending an objective. Gliding in particular can be used in combat and gives quite an unfair movement advantage in towers/keeps.

Imo they should be tools only to traverse the map faster to get to a place, but when you are in a territory/objective where a fight is happening they should be disabled to make all players on equal grounds. Thoughts?

Every change to the game mode, every nerf, every "balance" change has nerfed defense and buffed the boonball stacking outside.  They have nerfed siege, wall health, supply, boonstrips and buffed anything that makes it easier for the attacker.  Even the walls design helps the attackers.  You can flip a T3 tower in 25 seconds from siege drop to lord dead, and some T3 keeps in 45 seconds.  So, why would we need to nerf defense even further?  Heaven forbid one of the 5 defenders successfully escape the 30-50 man boonball ktrain that is trying to farm easy ranks and loot.

[Riba.3271]

No, you're right.

Mount should share endurance bar with player and gliding should be disabled when player is in combat. Defenders shouldn't have absolute safety in high ground.

56 minutes ago, MedievalThings.5417 said:

Every change to the game mode, every nerf, every "balance" change has nerfed defense and buffed the boonball stacking outside.  They have nerfed siege, wall health, supply, boonstrips and buffed anything that makes it easier for the attacker.  Even the walls design helps the attackers.  Y

It is because they made combat balance completely skewed towards defenders. They don't only have respawn, increased player count and siege, but also +25% damage worth of stats. It has gotten to a point where equally strong groups don't try to take objectives from each other anymore. The defending blob or a guild just wins everytime unless they're completely outmatched.

What they need to do is:

• Rebalance shield gens to 1 per spot and only bubble around them, so defending siege works
• Buff wall and gate hitpoints so defenders have more time
• Increase siege damage to siege by 50%, so defender siege does something. (Note: Originally siege did 100% more damage to siege but then they doubled siege hitpoints and forgot to buff siege vs siege damage)
• Make golems not affected by boons again since Quickness + Protection golems make attacking attempts unstoppable.
• Remove gliding in combat since it skews combat
• Rework objective aura to not provide combat stats since it skews combat
• Increase upgrade time of Stonemist castle by 200% dolyaks. Packed dolyak should only count as 1 dolyaks for upgrade.
• Reduce duration of banner tactivators to 5 minutes

So there are significant amount changes required for both defending and attacking. This will be about net positive for defenders since they have more time to gather numbers, but also much more fun for attacking groups since they can have better battles and aren't in a rush to capture objective before equal amount of defenders show up.

Edited March 5 by Riba.3271