Zok.4956 Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 (edited) She invaded Tyria. We killed her brother Deimos in the Bastion of the Penitent. She betrayed her other brother Cerus and helped killing him. This probably makes her the only heir to the throne. She invaded our mind. If we weren't so insensitive, this would have hurt us extremely. She tries to portray herself to us as a freedom fighter who wants to free her people from tyranny. But now we trust her suddenly and trust everything she says and help her kill her king so she can get more power? And then there is Eparch, who is described to us as the tyrannical demon ruler of Nayos. Well, demons do things that demons do. This also applies to the ruler of the demons. But our first encounter with him only shows us that he is loved. Labris loves him so much that she sacrifices herself for him so that we cannot harm him through her. It's not surprising that he then wants revenge. So Eparch may not be a nice guy, he is the demon ruler after all, but perhaps Peitha is the real villain here. But I guess there is not enough remaining story for such a plot twist. What do you think? P.S. They are demons. We slay demons. Why should we help one demon over the other in a demon civil war? They continue to be demons doing demonic things. Edited March 5 by Zok.4956 8 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randulf.7614 Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 Unlikely. I mean she's only winning with our help. She turns on us - especially as we have repelled significantly large armies from Tyria and many of Eparch's Generals - I kinda think she's going to lose. Eparch is no doubt THE villain here. His actions in the past, his actions since the start of SoTo, his speech are unequivocal. Doesn't mean there may not be some slight twist to come, but I can't see it being this. That feels like a twist for the sake of a twist My gut feeling is that Peitha is just what she appears to be and we will leave her alone afterwards with perhaps a small diplomatic contignet left behind. This is all the first stage in building more allies like Peitha and her Kryptis before pulling together for one big Void-style apocalyptic scenario in a few years time. 5 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ugrakarma.9416 Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 (edited) I sang this song some time ago. The plot sometimes feels like we are being lured to believe be as "liberators", while in reality we are being used as pawns in a dynastic dispute. On the other hand, in Nayos it is constantly reinforced that Eparch rules by terror and evil So that part from Peitha is true. Edited March 6 by ugrakarma.9416 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxwelgm.4315 Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 I guess this is similar to the ending of Hall of Chains where Desmina leaves it very ambiguous on how exactly she was going to behave now that she basically had the throne to the Underworld and no Reapers to reign over the place with her. Yes, Peitha obviously has her own agenda and this isn't actually hidden, she wants the Kryptis to be free of Eparch's rule and she is not uncomfortable at all with the idea that she becomes the new ruler in his place. She doesn't react strangely when Nephus bows to her or when all the other Kryptis show their reverence. That doesn't mean she is going to be evil in the same sense but also it doesn't have to mean that "good to Kryptis" is ever going to equal "good to Tyrians" - a point made by Isgarren himself. The other reason I don't think they will go there is because the Wizards' second option is to completely destroy Nayos. I'm not sure they can fulfill the promise of collapsing an entire realm inside the Mists (Kralkatorrik and Soo Won I guess were the only beings so far capable of that) but they might have some very destructive spells under their sleeve. In fact, I'd say it would make even more sense for us to have to go against Isgarren and the Wizards (and Zojja) at least temporarily due to some plot twist safety plan by Eparch rather than having Peitha turn out to be against us. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altriba.8092 Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 I got a feeling Nayos is actually dying, and Eparch is not eating his people but sacrificing the worst and most insubordinate of them to sustain the realm, and is trying to avoid general panic by not telling anyone he doesn't have to, which has created the impression that he is deliberately ruling by fear, which is really an unfortunate side-effect of the desperate measures he is employing to save the place. Where that possibility, if it is so goes is anyone's guess. I am not a fan of the callousness of the commander or the Astral Ward we are seeing more and more of, that really needs to be addressed. 10 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obfuscate.6430 Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 Maybe she is really Aurene, trying to save us from ourselves because we're trapped in our own minds. 1 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randulf.7614 Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 18 hours ago, Altriba.8092 said: I got a feeling Nayos is actually dying, and Eparch is not eating his people but sacrificing the worst and most insubordinate of them to sustain the realm, and is trying to avoid general panic by not telling anyone he doesn't have to, which has created the impression that he is deliberately ruling by fear, which is really an unfortunate side-effect of the desperate measures he is employing to save the place. Where that possibility, if it is so goes is anyone's guess. I am not a fan of the callousness of the commander or the Astral Ward we are seeing more and more of, that really needs to be addressed. That would be a much more interesting twist. Perhaps the Void or the Dragons had some unexpected impact 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konig Des Todes.2086 Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 19 hours ago, Altriba.8092 said: I got a feeling Nayos is actually dying, and Eparch is not eating his people but sacrificing the worst and most insubordinate of them to sustain the realm, and is trying to avoid general panic by not telling anyone he doesn't have to, which has created the impression that he is deliberately ruling by fear, which is really an unfortunate side-effect of the desperate measures he is employing to save the place. Where that possibility, if it is so goes is anyone's guess. I am not a fan of the callousness of the commander or the Astral Ward we are seeing more and more of, that really needs to be addressed. The latest release does really make it feel like Eparch actually has a reason for his actions and isn't just acting out of blind gluttony or desire of power. But I don't think it's a case of "we're pretending to be the villains because the truth is too painful for the masses" kind of outcome. I hope it's more a case of "Eparch is the lesser of two evils and he's afraid of that greater evil". 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalavier.1097 Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 With the comment about how they decided to do something external before diving back into exploring Modern Tyria and the changes/new areas, I'm going to guess for now they don't plan on some ex-terrestrial bigger big bad. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mandala.8507 Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 20 hours ago, Altriba.8092 said: I got a feeling Nayos is actually dying, and Eparch is not eating his people but sacrificing the worst and most insubordinate of them to sustain the realm, and is trying to avoid general panic by not telling anyone he doesn't have to, which has created the impression that he is deliberately ruling by fear, which is really an unfortunate side-effect of the desperate measures he is employing to save the place. This just wouldn't make a lot of sense, imo. We already experienced the twist of this expansion, which happened during the cutscene with Peitha and Cerus. In that moment, anything could have happened, and in that moment Peitha sided with us. Shortly after in Nayos, we realize the Kryptis aren't just all evil demons, we were simply experiencing only the evil ones because they were Eparch's loyalist fighting force. I think the release structure of this expansion is luring people down false trails because the patch cadence makes it feel like the end of base SotO was somewhere close to the halfway point in the story, when in reality it was more like the 80% mark. This is already the final stretch of the story and there isn't enough mileage left for them to go down any of these theoretical plot paths. What's interesting to me is that base SotO actually had a lot more of the playerbase suspicious of the Astral Ward and the Wizards' motives than now. But I'd argue base SotO left little room for suspicion of these institutions, while the Nayos arc does provide foundation for some of those theories. Could there be a piece of Eparch's motive that evokes some partial sympathy for his character that we are yet to discover? Sure. But I don't think it's going to be this "the villain was actually the savior all along" narrative people have been pining for over the years. Sometimes a tyrant is just a tyrant, guys. 2 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowpokeking.8720 Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 I wasn't surprised when Eparch was loved by some, but surely was shocked when he offered to spare Tyria. If it was true, this demon at least got some standards. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig. Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 at this point, I do not care who is the big evil., as long as we can slap Isgarren and watch the wizards being taken down several notches. 2 5 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teknomancer.4895 Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 Eparch could indeed be every bit as bad as we've been told, but that doesn't necessarily mean that Peitha will be any better. She's obviously just using us to take power anyway, so what happens after she gets it and no longer needs us? 4 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CETheLucid.3964 Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 6 hours ago, Teknomancer.4895 said: Eparch could indeed be every bit as bad as we've been told, but that doesn't necessarily mean that Peitha will be any better. She'd be better even if in the end she betrayed us randomly because she's not Eparch. She'd be far less of a threat to Tyria. But she isn't going to do that. It doesn't make sense. She's proven an ally and friend. I also don't buy that Eparch was going to leave Tyria alone after being obsessed with it for several millenniums. But it was genuinely surprising he cared so much for his queen that he offered such a thing and that she was willing to sacrifice herself to this cause of keeping him buffed up. I don't know what's up there. Maybe he's a deeper character than "current big bad". Either way, doubt he's going to be our buddy at this point. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urud.4925 Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 She might reveal herself as evil character, true. Not only because she schemed all the time to kill people she didn't like, brother included, but because in the last episode we saw that she is a bad strategist. The plan to keep Labris alive ended up for being a mistake, and also Nephus told her. Usually "heroes"/good guys don't do these mistakes. Nephus might become the new ruler (he seems to care about his people more than Peitha does), but this wouldn't really solve the "why did we trust and follow Peitha?" Is the Commander really so dumb? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teknomancer.4895 Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 3 hours ago, CETheLucid.3964 said: She's proven an ally and friend. In furtherance of her own goals, yes. But this is still in effect: 9 hours ago, Teknomancer.4895 said: She's obviously just using us to take power anyway, so what happens after she gets it and no longer needs us? 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trejgon.9367 Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 38 minutes ago, Urud.4925 said: but because in the last episode we saw that she is a bad strategist. The plan to keep Labris alive ended up for being a mistake, and also Nephus told her. It is less of bad strategist per se in my understanding, but a leader that takes unnecessary risks.Nephus remarked that Labris is to dangerous to keep alive, and Peitha saw opportunity to make a spectacle, and rally the crowds to her cause. The plan could backfire, and did backfire, but she deemed the payoff she'd get if it succeeded worth taking the risk - and lost the gamble. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teknomancer.4895 Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 (edited) Well maybe if we bothered to call in one of the spy agencies (pretty sure the Ash Imperator owes us a favor or two, and let's not forget about the Whispers and Shadows) and get some solid intel instead of just gullibly accepting whatever the demon lady puts into our heads... Screw whatever secrecy Isgarren and Peitha want. They have clearly demonstrated they couldn't care less about Tyria aside from dangling its safety as a motivator for us. Not to mention we've demonstrated that without our cooperation they can't do jack anyway. Call in the Whispers, call in the Shadows, Call in Ash, and oh by the way let's have some of those Pact airships while we're at it too. Let's stop doing this the DUMBEST WAY POSSIBLE. Screw this "wayfinder" nonsense, we are the Pact Commander, so let's act like it. Edited March 8 by Teknomancer.4895 typos 5 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalavier.1097 Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 12 hours ago, Urud.4925 said: we saw that she is a bad strategist .Usually "heroes"/good guys don't do these mistakes. The PC/hero team has made mistakes. We've spared somebody to have it bit us in the kitten before. Mistakes in strategy aren't an indicator of "good guy" or not. 59 minutes ago, Teknomancer.4895 said: Well maybe if we bothered to call in one of the spy agencies (pretty sure the Ash Imperator owes us a favor or two, and let's not forget about the Whispers and Shadows) and get some solid intel instead of just gullibly accepting whatever the demon lady puts into our heads... Screw whatever secrecy Isgarren and Peitha want. They have clearly demonstrated they couldn't care less about Tyria aside from dangling its safety as a motivator for us. Not to mention we've demonstrated that without our cooperation they can't do jack anyway. Call in the Whispers, call in the Shadows, Call in Ash, and oh by the way let's have some of those Pact airships while we're at it too. Let's stop doing this the DUMBEST WAY POSSIBLE. Screw this "wayfinder" nonsense, we are the Pact Commander, so let's act like it. I think calling Ash, Shadows, and Whispers into an area they have zero starting intel in and zero ability to blend in wouldn't really work out that great. Hell even in the field reports I've read (I've not done the episode just yet) in the new map area notes how the Astral Ward scouts are having trouble and getting caught. The thing is, after the initial troubles, when Isgarren was freed the Astral Ward got the rifts under control and the state of worry wasn't needed. In Nayos as far as I've seen, the situation hasn't required calling in reinforcements. Unless the newest episode farms something differently, calling in the Pact is overkill. Which sometimes is smart, but perhaps not when we are dealing with a new world and are trying to convince the natives we aren't there to wipe them all out or conquer them and plant our own flag. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teknomancer.4895 Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 49 minutes ago, Kalavier.1097 said: Hell even in the field reports I've read (I've not done the episode just yet) in the new map area notes how the Astral Ward scouts are having trouble and getting caught. Aside from the big blue yoga instructor, the Astral Ward hasn't impressed me with even basic competence so that's hardly surprising. They're so arrogant they probably think they can't be caught, right up until the moment it happens. 3 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalavier.1097 Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 1 hour ago, Teknomancer.4895 said: Aside from the big blue yoga instructor, the Astral Ward hasn't impressed me with even basic competence so that's hardly surprising. They're so arrogant they probably think they can't be caught, right up until the moment it happens. Shockingly when in a literally alien environment, they aren't having grand successes. Meanwhile they effectively are holding the line and have been ontop of every single rift opening after they recovered from the intro events to SOTO and secured their home base. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zok.4956 Posted March 9 Author Share Posted March 9 9 hours ago, Kalavier.1097 said: I think calling Ash, Shadows, and Whispers into an area they have zero starting intel in and zero ability to blend in wouldn't really work out that great. It is their job to do exactly that and it is what they are trained to do 9 hours ago, Kalavier.1097 said: The PC/hero team has made mistakes. I agree. PC/hero team has suffered from cutscene Incompetence, idiot ball and plot-induced stupidity several times. 9 hours ago, Kalavier.1097 said: Mistakes in strategy aren't an indicator of "good guy" or not. I agree that it's not an indicator. However ... because of our history of going around the world and slaughtering many actually innocent creatures, some claim that we even committed genocide, we can hardly be considered "good guys" anymore. 5 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalavier.1097 Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 2 hours ago, Zok.4956 said: It is their job to do exactly that and it is what they are trained to do Almost like you completely missed the entire point of the statement. 2 hours ago, Zok.4956 said: I agree. PC/hero team has suffered from cutscene Incompetence, idiot ball and plot-induced stupidity several times. Shockingly, people make mistakes. Shockingly, people are not always perfect and making the right choices and being at the top of their game. 2 hours ago, Zok.4956 said: I agree that it's not an indicator. However ... because of our history of going around the world and slaughtering many actually innocent creatures, some claim that we even committed genocide, we can hardly be considered "good guys" anymore. I would love to know the time when we slaughtered actual innocent creatures. Also when did we commit genocide at all. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teknomancer.4895 Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 2 hours ago, Kalavier.1097 said: I would love to know the time when we slaughtered actual innocent creatures. Indiscriminate Slayer. 🤣 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omega.6801 Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 1) We kill Eparch, as a last resor Eparch collapses the gates between Nayos and Tyria to trap us in the demon realm. 2) Peitha, now the Demon queen, keeps the gates open and rushes us and the wizards back to safety. "But what about you " - "I have to stay here, with my people." - "What will you do now?" - "What I have to." 3) We end up in Tyria. The gate closes behind us. Final scene with Isgarren. "Do you think she will be a just ruler?" - "We will never know, Wayfinder." 4) Fade to black 5) Directed by Robert B. Weide 1 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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