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June 25 Balance Update Preview


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Posted (edited)

Not really what I was expecting from a balance patch. Which would be fine if it simply wasn't mutch of a balance patch and instead just an update to some underused skills. However, I could't help but notice that some specs did recive actual balance changes and they are a bit puzzling. Does cele Harbinger really need damage reduction on shroud in WvW? I get that it doesn't see much play in sPvP but Reaper is meta. I'm not sure if it's worth kittening WvW roaming balance even more to improve the spec of a profession that already has another spec in the meta in sPvP.

Edited by ascii.1369
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I'm disappointed in the Holosmith changes to favor the grenade kit. I find this kit to be the least fun to play but also I like Holo because I don't have to use utility slots for a kit and feel like I'm getting more out of the class. Every engi can use kits, why does this need to be pushed on Holo when it has one built into the spec?

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Posted (edited)

Renegat had nerf and floor problems (invalid access path) with kalla because we couldn't lay everywhere. There was a redesign or nerf, still these problems with kalla. 
Vindicator still has nerfs, while other specializations are more powerful (not in this patch but in general), but the bugs are still there (aquatic dodge, 3 GS that don't cover the distance indicated, energy that displays 49 when we have 50. 
Sceptre sucks and has already been nerfed. Problem with certain skills that make you attack enemy supplies in WvW.

Edited by Angesombre.4630
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I'm not the best at writing feedback, but this will be a suggestion based on people's feedback about Catalyst and the application of quickness. I know Catalyst can be challenging for team balance, but ignoring what people would like to play is not good. I was a main Elementalist until the Mac Client's demise. I returned to the game a few months ago, and while End of Dragons was an okay expansion for other specs, Elementalist received something that not even a single Elementalist would like: energy management. While I played Catalyst briefly to try it out, I encountered several pain points that hindered my enjoyment. Elementalist already has to track numerous cooldowns, and now with the addition of a cumbersome energy bar that doesn't function when your sphere is out, it becomes even more frustrating. Why should it work like that?

I've been pondering some solutions, although they may require a departure from what the new Anet is currently doing. However, the concept of quickness application for Elementalist got me thinking. My initial thought was to give quickness to Weaver. Why? Because for damage, we use Catalyst, so Weaver isn't the primary DPS option. (Of course, this is based on community feedback, as I prioritize the enjoyability of a spec over big numbers.) Imagine if Weaver could grant quickness in their dual skills? It would provide quickness without adding an extra step to the rotation, allowing us to maintain our damage output while assisting with the buff.

Another suggestion I had, inspired by my new "main," Mirage (I know, I'm cursed), involves giving quickness to Catalyst with some adjustments to make the rotation simpler and more enjoyable. What if Catalyst removed the spheres mechanic and instead "released a burst of energy on dodge" that applied boons if traited? For instance, we could use a hammer, engage in melee combat, perform our rotation, and when we dodge, unleash a burst of boons or damage, eliminating the need for the energy system and its associated complexities. Since spheres are already a part of Elementalist lore, they could remain present, floating like the gyros, and perhaps we could even create a well every time we dodge.

All these suggestions make me feel excited about playing Elementalist again and perhaps forgiving Anet for the weapon they gave us.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, astralrisotto.3206 said:

I'm not the best at writing feedback, but this will be a suggestion based on people's feedback about Catalyst and the application of quickness. I know Catalyst can be challenging for team balance, but ignoring what people would like to play is not good. I was a main Elementalist until the Mac Client's demise. I returned to the game a few months ago, and while End of Dragons was an okay expansion for other specs, Elementalist received something that not even a single Elementalist would like: energy management. While I played Catalyst briefly to try it out, I encountered several pain points that hindered my enjoyment. Elementalist already has to track numerous cooldowns, and now with the addition of a cumbersome energy bar that doesn't function when your sphere is out, it becomes even more frustrating. Why should it work like that?

I've been pondering some solutions, although they may require a departure from what the new Anet is currently doing. However, the concept of quickness application for Elementalist got me thinking. My initial thought was to give quickness to Weaver. Why? Because for damage, we use Catalyst, so Weaver isn't the primary DPS option. (Of course, this is based on community feedback, as I prioritize the enjoyability of a spec over big numbers.) Imagine if Weaver could grant quickness in their dual skills? It would provide quickness without adding an extra step to the rotation, allowing us to maintain our damage output while assisting with the buff.

Another suggestion I had, inspired by my new "main," Mirage (I know, I'm cursed), involves giving quickness to Catalyst with some adjustments to make the rotation simpler and more enjoyable. What if Catalyst removed the spheres mechanic and instead "released a burst of energy on dodge" that applied boons if traited? For instance, we could use a hammer, engage in melee combat, perform our rotation, and when we dodge, unleash a burst of boons or damage, eliminating the need for the energy system and its associated complexities. Since spheres are already a part of Elementalist lore, they could remain present, floating like the gyros, and perhaps we could even create a well every time we dodge.

All these suggestions make me feel excited about playing Elementalist again and perhaps forgiving Anet for the weapon they gave us.

Almost every balance change/whack-mole change has been for catalyst/melee and test dummy dps races in the last 2 years, much to the cost of all the other elementalist builds.  We don't need more quickness as that's power creep and would result almost certainly in another series of slow long drawn out balance recovery changes after.  We also need the  designers to evaluate how skills are used  in all types of gameplay, for e.g in PVP they just bust earthen synergy for example (3/4 seconds cast to do 0 dmg and stun for 1.5 seconds if it hits - eh what?)

Anet needs to adopt a more rapid development lifecycle that's not big bang or we will forever lurch from problem to problem, especially if they have a designer who does not have the experience to understand good engineering principles and /or are overly fixated on melee/cata.

 

Edited by Bladestrom.6425
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My feedback about and thoughts for revenant this patch.

To start with, I am disappointed in 0 scepter changes, rework, buffs to it... And neither to staff some updates...

 

•Core rev changes: I think overall not bad, gives little bit mote option to pick this also in pvp depending on builds.

•Herald changes: noting spectaculair overall. Still weak to conditions overall without shield + the trait at the trade off for lesser damage.

•renegade changes + suggestions:

•Kalla stance spirits suggestion: Make hem being able to get place on any uneven ground and also when you're on different heights.

-It's nice they reduce energy costs on it and citadel bombardment more reliable hits. 

-Heroic Commandment lower energy on it is allright, but it stays underwhelming ability effect wise.

Suggestions ==> Maybe add 2 damaging conditions aoe cleanse on it aswell.

I think Heroic Commandment could be in pvp 2 might stacks/kalla fervor aswell, in pve this can be 4 might stack/kalla fervor and 3 stacks for WvW too

-Vindication trait coming change + suggestion: If they could up like said above heroic command part, the removal of might by passive attacking wouldn't that be that big then. 

About outgoing damage converted in x% healing. This is kinda passive too, it might up sustain yea, but at an easy cost maybe (so Idk if this is the right direction like many years ago with elite skill passive sustain).

Lasting Legacy trait suggestion: If might gaining/to allies is more covered baseline by heroic command this trait can be changed in something more usefull.

Righteous rebel trait suggestion: ontop already existing effects if Orders from Above is active pulsing boons ==> you and allies convert 3%/Kalla's Fervor stack all incoming damage into healing to all affected while pulsing is active.

Bold Reversal suggestion: Being able to allies in 360 radius too. If resistance is applied by this heal skill, you convert 1 condition into a boon whoever is affected in 360 radius.

Heartpiecer trait suggestion: Blood fury trait increased bleed duration merged with bleed damage increase in here. 

Wrought-Iron Will suggestion: Remove the part where you have you have to evade damage, make it always work if you evade. Regen boon duration doubled.

Blood fury suggestion: on critic hit you apply 1 stack of bleed condition and 1 second weakness condition. The 3 second icd is still here so can't be stacked/spammed high.

Ashen Demeanor suggestion: No clue what here.

Breakrazor's Bastion fix suggestion:  Atleast double amount of barrier for heal skill that has higher cd then other stance abilties. + fix bug outgoing helling modifiers scale 0% healing allies up.

Darkrazor's Daring suggestion:  Daze faster applied to target on pressing the skill. Stability baseline 3 seconds and each enemies hit by daze applies 3 second extra stability (stacks up).

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You guys really need to do something about Virtuoso in PvE.

It's so staggeringly powerful, consistent, safe, and utility-rich that to say that the entire meta has warped around this one spec is, frankly, an understatement.

It's shocking and disturbing that this spec has been so powerful for so long (coming on two years now), and not a single change has happened. In fact, you keep buffing it. Absolutely baffling. Virtuoso is so ubiquitous in PvE now that nearly every 1 in 3 DPS players in strikes is playing it. That number will 100% go even higher after this patch's buffs. It needs a serious toning down, not buffs.

Again, absolutely baffling.

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9 hours ago, Aldwin.8245 said:

You guys really need to do something about Virtuoso in PvE.

It's so staggeringly powerful, consistent, safe, and utility-rich that to say that the entire meta has warped around this one spec is, frankly, an understatement.

It's shocking and disturbing that this spec has been so powerful for so long (coming on two years now), and not a single change has happened. In fact, you keep buffing it. Absolutely baffling. Virtuoso is so ubiquitous in PvE now that nearly every 1 in 3 DPS players in strikes is playing it. That number will 100% go even higher after this patch's buffs. It needs a serious toning down, not buffs.

Again, absolutely baffling.

And yet every meta I go to, I still see mostly rangers, necros, and mechs with a handful of the others thrown in. 

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2 hours ago, MedievalThings.5417 said:

And yet every meta I go to, I still see mostly rangers, necros, and mechs with a handful of the others thrown in. 

Well its like it doesnt matter what you play in OW and come more to personal preference. Im for example dont like virtuosso OW. I know its good but when it come to easy chill OW meta play I choose my trusty mech. Tho did you saw drastical Mech number decrease?

Anyway when people here talk about pve I think they mind instanced content where numbers start to make sense. OFC I still grief my partys when I join with my rifle mech do my best and tell myself its not my fault that Anet decided to nerf my playstyle, but you know I dont play CM and raids so who cares.

Everyone talks about nerfing virtuosso but tbh I think they should make other classes more fun to play (except elementalists, seems theyre fine with that playstyle).

On topic. Anet didnt fix a single unused engie skill in pve. Tools buff in pve? Lol do they even play this class?

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12 hours ago, Aldwin.8245 said:

You guys really need to do something about Virtuoso in PvE.

It's so staggeringly powerful, consistent, safe, and utility-rich that to say that the entire meta has warped around this one spec is, frankly, an understatement.

It's shocking and disturbing that this spec has been so powerful for so long (coming on two years now), and not a single change has happened. In fact, you keep buffing it. Absolutely baffling. Virtuoso is so ubiquitous in PvE now that nearly every 1 in 3 DPS players in strikes is playing it. That number will 100% go even higher after this patch's buffs. It needs a serious toning down, not buffs.

Again, absolutely baffling.

Agreed, its absolutely busted and dominant in high end PvE content at the moment, to the point where its essentially mandatory as a 6 of for Febe CM and LM.

While I agree they need to nerf cvirt, they probably need to buff other classes at the same time to give them a chance in this content.

Dont want to see them make Febe LM completely impossible by nerfing cvirt without buffing anything else.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, MedievalThings.5417 said:

And yet every meta I go to, I still see mostly rangers, necros, and mechs with a handful of the others thrown in. 

Yeah, so we are talking about high end strikes (strike CMs) as thats the difficult PvE content where class balance actually matters heavily at the moment.

We are also talking about DPSers (not boon dps nor boon healers).

I think the following links kinda attest to what we are talking about, make sure to click on challenge mode and legendary challenge mode for each link (not the normal modes) and look at class popularity for each:

https://gw2wingman.nevermindcreations.de/cerus

55% virtuoso in CM, and 58% on LCM (essentially all of the DPS in groups) Note that the heralds are Qdps, scourge is alac heal, and the chronos are aheal qheal or qdps.  (note while I want to see a C.Virt nerf, they will need to buff other classes or make changes to Febe CM and LM to keep Febe doable since LCM becomes literally impossible without cvirts at the moment and even CM becomes almost impossible, I dont want to see this content become impossible after a bunch of people have already completed it as thats no fun).

https://gw2wingman.nevermindcreations.de/dagda

35% virtuoso in CM

https://gw2wingman.nevermindcreations.de/olc

42% virtuoso in CM

https://gw2wingman.nevermindcreations.de/li

48% virtuoso in CM

https://gw2wingman.nevermindcreations.de/ankka

37% virtuoso in CM

all in all though, its really Febe that showcases Virt absolute dominance in the meta.  A mele oriented DPS class literally needs to do 54k! on a DPS golem in order to have a chance to even compete with them in the party (condi deadeye at 1.99% in Febe CM (not LM), and even thats a thing of the past now thanks to last tues deadeye getting the nerf bat).

So yeah, im all for "nerfing" them, but they will need to combine that with either buffing other classes or just nerfing Febe CM and LM to keep this content doable I fear.

Edited by Tammuz.7361
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Ummm,   

   So you guys eliminated Holo from the PvP meta by increasing by making its two primary damage skills 50% slower.   Executing those skills also were the classes cleanse... so now 50% slower cleanse... and those skills contributed to its access to quickness and fury through a GM trait.   

   You then thought it great to weaken engi's counter to invuln/evade/block spamming classes by wearing flashbang.  And then you figured that one of the few good counters to stealth out there should be weakened to.

   I can see with these patch notes that for weakening all engi's across the board (your nerfs were not actually focused on the meta holo, but rather impacted core traits) you thought that making GRENADES more powerful in PVE would be an excellent compensation.   

   Need I remind you that due to overwhelming tears about grenades, and general engi annoyance at having to include the fricken toolkit in ever viable DPS build (before the one you just nerfed), grenades had been repeatedly nerfed.  SO you've pigeon holed all PvE engi's back into nades AGAIN.  Despite just having nerfed them.    Also giving PvE people more damage with nades does absolutely nothing for PvP.

   Now your probably thinking, oh hey wait... PvP can take advantage of the super sweet alchemy line for scrapper and holo.   Except that scraper relies on super speed and quickness derived from gyros.  Boosting an alchemy tramline that requires you to only have elixirs is of NO VALUE.   So you've just nerfed scrapper yet again.   Holo's also can't afford to take the elixirs that would make alchemy advantageous, they could maybe work out how to slot one elixir U.   So in boosting alchemy to a level slightly less flexible but maybe on par with tools you've just given us two underpowered alternatives.

   Do any Dev's actually play engineer even? 

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I made this post in the engineer forum, but I'll repost here too:

  • Magnet: This skill now properly plays its visual effect during the full channel. This skill cannot be retargeted. This skill now applies bonus defiance damage to targets with defiance bars.

Not allowing retargeting on magnet is a huge nerf to an already niche skill that was difficult to use well. 

Some examples of using the skill with retargeting, which will no longer be possible:

  1. In fights against a stealthing thief, you can start channeling magnet before they reappear and tab target them as soon as they do. 
  2. You can start channeling magnet whilst running away from someone (without target selected), then turn and face/target them to get a pull. <- This is particularly useful in 1v1s against a melee heavy opponent, it applies unexpected counter pressure (e.g. following up with prybar) and can help give you some breathing room. 

Not allowing retargeting on magnet will significantly dumb down an interesting mechanic, reducing it's usability, which I believe is the opposite of what this patch is trying to achieve.

- Prozap [DI]

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@Rubi Bayer.8493 

I also think its time to get an official statement from the balance team regarding the rumours that they are answering/balancing the game at the whims of a few select players.

Its become even more glaring this patch with the Moa Signet change. Everyone is talking about how a single player has cried about getting sniped by this signet while comming in WvW and this change gets implemented. Meanwhile countless people are complaining about a multitude of other issues and nothing gets done.

To be completely honest I would take getting Moa'd in a teamfight or 1v1 over fighting a perma-stealth thief or losing a 3v1 against a willbender every day of the week.

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Posted (edited)
33 minutes ago, Yogurt Goblin.5934 said:

@Rubi Bayer.8493 

I also think its time to get an official statement from the balance team regarding the rumours that they are answering/balancing the game at the whims of a few select players.

Its become even more glaring this patch with the Moa Signet change. Everyone is talking about how a single player has cried about getting sniped by this signet while comming in WvW and this change gets implemented. Meanwhile countless people are complaining about a multitude of other issues and nothing gets done.

To be completely honest I would take getting Moa'd in a teamfight or 1v1 over fighting a perma-stealth thief or losing a 3v1 against a willbender every day of the week.

The rumoured player was also recently talking about how the balance in WvW is the best it's been in a while... Really makes you think 🤔

Edited by aurrella xx.4198
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Why are we still being asked for feedback?

 

If you devs want to balance the classes, just read the kitten forum!

There are about 10'000 pages with very good changes. But you ignore everything anyway.
Do you just shoot out “balance patches” so that the management gives up? This may be a patch, but it's a universe away from balance.
 

Please read through your own changes again and tell me what exactly these changes are supposed to do for the warrior?

You can make the changed skills in this patch 1000x stronger, it still wouldn't change anything.
 

p.s, when will we get an answer why Arc Divider was changed from 3 spins to one?

Your “balance patches” really make absolutely no sense at all and based on the feedback, even people like you who don't play this game should finally realize this.

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Posted (edited)

To ask us about our feedback is literally a mockery of your playerbase at this point. This balance team never cared about our feedback to begin with. You've recieved so much great feedback that would've made this game 100% more enoyable for everyone, but still you never seem to care about anything than pushing your own agenda forward. There are classes and especs that's so neglected right now, and it's totally mindblowing that management allows this to carry on.

The balance team is destroying the game, that's my feedback for you.

Edited by AshkyLicious.4729
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I am disappointed in the Elixir X change. Part of the disappointment was because I got my hopes up with the mention of the change which received its own bullet point. I thought we may get our own unique transformation, and then we got another profession's elite added to the the elixir. It felt tacked on. It feels like a band aid fix with the comment "Why not?" instead of "Why?"

I feel the change will be a fun gimmick for a few weeks before the skill isn't used again. It will add more chances to deal more damage, but the added randomness will hurt the skill. A 2/3 chance to get a transforms we prefer will feel nice, but it will feel worse getting the one we don't want. I see a lot of people throwing their hands up in frustration and switching elites. There is also the problem of only having a 1/3 chance of get the transform we really want for our build now. For me that isn't worth the risk. This all makes it harder to build around the skill.

I hope we get a fix to the skill eventually, but I've been losing hope as many skills have been sitting on the sidelines for years with the promise of being fixed.

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1 hour ago, nomir.4597 said:

I am disappointed in the Elixir X change. Part of the disappointment was because I got my hopes up with the mention of the change which received its own bullet point. I thought we may get our own unique transformation, and then we got another profession's elite added to the the elixir. It felt tacked on. It feels like a band aid fix with the comment "Why not?" instead of "Why?"

I feel the change will be a fun gimmick for a few weeks before the skill isn't used again. It will add more chances to deal more damage, but the added randomness will hurt the skill. A 2/3 chance to get a transforms we prefer will feel nice, but it will feel worse getting the one we don't want. I see a lot of people throwing their hands up in frustration and switching elites. There is also the problem of only having a 1/3 chance of get the transform we really want for our build now. For me that isn't worth the risk. This all makes it harder to build around the skill.

I hope we get a fix to the skill eventually, but I've been losing hope as many skills have been sitting on the sidelines for years with the promise of being fixed.

As I already mentioned in this threat, the main problem with elixir X is the randomness, and a salty flavor comes from the fact it is copy paste from other classes.

There are a lot of possbile fixes to this skill:

- give us a unique engineer transformation with its own skillset

- alchemy is a boon traitline, just make elixir X give us all boons for a short duration (like elixir of ambition)

- somebody mentioned it could also just increase the 3 highest attributes you have, that is an interesting idea

- or just something else... i think this skill coudnt be worse as it is now

 

when i am talking about elite skills.... cough.... supply crate.

This is also a very outdated and underpowered skill and is just taken for the CC effect (crate itself is a CC and overcharged net turret too) .

Add a rifle turret and a rocket turret, lower the CD to 60 sec and even then it wouldnt be overpowered but at least a bit of useful.

But supply crate is just the tip of the problem because turrets itself are just weak (not looking at you healing turret, i love you).

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¿Cuándo van a mover un dedo para nerf cele stat en wvw y rasgos como salvación del rev esa barrera de spam como locos? para que la cosa mejore dependiendo si al final todos se van cele y aunque te pongas full zeker no tienes suficiente daño para matarlos

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Posted (edited)
On 5/24/2024 at 3:53 PM, Suyheuti.1732 said:

You didn't need to do stream like your are doing big balance.

You asked feedback, here it is.

Disappointing nerfs for holosmith. I think noone asked for it.

Interestingly I'm happy for Elementalist, I was worrying about you would nerf again just because "meta defining"

Very disappointing for mirage. I was expecting you would buff Power Mirage and buff mh sword as underused(actually nonusable) weapon. I'm so happy you didnt buff condi virtuoso again. Anet balance team, you need to understand this, mirage is so broken, noone even cares to play over condi virtuoso, F5 skill is still missing. Put this on you calendar asap.

 

Mirage will never see an f5 it has ambush attacks which more that make up part of its unique spec feature. chrono and virt get unique shatters instead, dont bother with asking for at f5 on mirage. 

Yes make main hand sword feel nicer though we all would appreciate that.

Edited by ZDragon.3046
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On 5/24/2024 at 2:23 PM, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

Necromancer

Sword didn't quite land where we wanted in WvW, so this update includes some improvements to its damage to make it a more viable option. We've also improved some defensive tools for harbinger to give them some better survivability options and tuned up a number of defensive utility skills in PvE.

  • Feast of Corruption: Increased the number of boons corrupted from 1 to 2 in PvP only. Increased the cooldown from 10 seconds to 12 seconds in PvP only.
  • Satiate: Increased the power coefficient from 0.6 to 0.9 in WvW only.
  • Path of Gluttony: This skill now corrupts a boon on targets it strikes.
  • Gorge: Reduced the number of boons corrupted from 2 to 1 in PvE and PvP.
  • Gormandize: Increased the power coefficient from 0.6 to 1.0 in WvW only.
  • Consume Conditions: Reduced the cooldown from 30 seconds to 25 seconds in PvE only.
  • Spectral Ring: This skill now performs an initial strike that deals defiance-bar damage when deployed in PvE.
  • Spectral Armor: Reduced the cooldown from 30 seconds to 20 seconds in PvE only.
  • Spectral Walk: Reduced the cooldown from 30 seconds to 20 seconds in PvE only.
  • Signet of the Locust: Reduced the cooldown from 25 seconds to 20 seconds in PvE only.
  • Well of Power: Reduced the cooldown from 25 seconds to 20 seconds in PvE only.

Harbinger

  • Elixir of Ignorance: This skill now grants protection in addition to its previous effects. Reduced the cooldown from 24 seconds to 20 seconds in PvE only.
  • Elixir of Bliss: Reduced the cooldown from 25 seconds to 20 seconds in PvE only.
  • Implacable Foe: This trait now grants damage reduction for a short duration when entering Harbinger Shroud.

Main hand sword needs help in pve still unfortunately while the attack speeds and animations were improved from the beta on initial release. The damage output in pve specifically is still not enough for it to do its job as a power sustained ranged dps weapon. Sword 1 needs more oompf and sword 2 needs a good amount  of more up front damage above and below 50% thresholds. in the current play style both staff and dagger can spend less time using 1 or 2 skills and achieve much more dps than trying to activate sword 2 and its associated flip over this means the weapon is not competitive in pve for back bar slots.

Harbingers grandmaster is still lackluster. Consider swapping this from being an aoe pulse and make it remove the default conditions on harbinger shroud skills in exchange-for increasing their base coefficient's instead. 

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Posted (edited)

So... Feedback time (only 1 point per profession).

Elementalist: 300 vitality on a trait is a nice addition on elementalist, however, 300 vitality on a support trait in a support traitline isn't a wise addition.

Engineer: Elixir X giving a chance to transform into a Lich... The game need less randomness and less Lich form, not the opposite.

Guardian: If you really want to reduce "Save yourself!" CD to 25s, you should also reduce the boon duration accordingly.

Mesmer: Buffing sources of invisibility in PvE... Nice but pointless. Time warp on another hand really have a dire need for a buff in PvE, yet it see no buff...

Necromancer: Harbinger don't need any damage reduction while entering shroud, in fact, in some areas of the game it already have way to much survivability.

Ranger: If you're gonna make a trait tied to a Longbow skill don't ever tye this trait to PBS! Tye it to hunter's shot! Seriously, don't create toxicity.

Revenant: Why the heck do you introduce a trait that convert damage into self-sustain?

Thief: %age of "spalsh effectiveness"... Why is there even a %age for such a thing? Less randomness!

Warrior: Making it recharge soldier's focus on weapon swap is nice, it would be better if the trait granted stability instead of quickness in competitive modes.

Edited by Dadnir.5038
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