Bad enemy design - almost permanent boon corrupt AoEs

[Cuks.8241]

Got used to it quite fast. Its really only 1 aoe attack centered on caster that is annoying for melee and its fairly short duration. 

[Voramoz.6790]

1 hour ago, SeTect.5918 said:

I agree that rewards should be earned, but it shouldnt be punishing based on the weapon you are using, especially since something like engi basically has almost no ranged options. Except if you want to spam grenades of course. 

I've been running an Engi spear build and adapted my damage reduction around the mechanics. Hence meta shift.

 

1 hour ago, SeTect.5918 said:

Builds that were ranged before already can just continue what they are doing but melee builds have to switch their builds up which also actually costs gold switching up weapons

That is a meta shift. Again I've been running a melee spear Engineer build in these events where I have been leveraging traits like Ironblooded. Again, that's what a meta shift is. The meta shift does not mean "melee is no longer viable."  The meta shift is "I have to incorporate some defenses in order to be viable in melee."

[UncreativeGreen.2019]

It was only on the blighted beast mob type that did this, not all the blighted variants. The tell for it spawning was them charging up a leap and then leaping ontop/near you. Was it punishing for melee? Yes. Was it an issue to roll out and wait 3s for the puddle to disappear? No. The only issue was when multiple of them all used it at the same time in the rift events or you decided to pull 10 of them at once. That could have been addressed another way.

Its not like there's been mobs that (still to this day) are resistant/reflect range attacks. Ones that take massively reduced power or condi damage. To act like this is the be all end all and the death of melee for an entire expansion is very silly. Other playstyles have had to adapt in the past as well. 

Regardless... Anet already deleted their leaping puddle spawning boon corrupting skill.... they now barely apply any condi and can be completely ignored as you 1111111 everything to death.

[Ashen.2907]

I am all for an increase in OW mob threat level but I am not sure that this was the right approach. Any system designed so that I actively regret the presence of other players (because they are sharing boons non-stop) is questionable.

[Dean Calaway.9718]

4 hours ago, VoiceOfUnreason.5976 said:

the arguments against this are like... "Well *I* didn't have a problem with it". Okay... so you didn't have a problem (so you say). Enough people did to warrant a change.

If I had a problem I wouldn't be asking to keep it, which I did, apparently not loud enough, because it was taken from me.

[Roda.7468]

So since melee players can get a mechanic reduced to let them play their preferred role easier, how about we visit those mobs that spam a giant projectile deleting dome that renders projectile-dependent builds 100% useless

 

Just got jumpscared by a rift boss that had me pull up my phone and scroll through social media since I was in combat and couldn't do a kitten thing until I could hit F on the rift after the melee killed the boss for me.

Edited August 23 by Roda.7468

[Linken.6345]

42 minutes ago, Roda.7468 said:

So since melee players can get a mechanic reduced to let them play their preferred role easier, how about we visit those mobs that spam a giant projectile deleting dome that renders projectile-dependent builds 100% useless

 

Just got jumpscared by a rift boss that had me pull up my phone and scroll through social media since I was in combat and couldn't do a kitten thing until I could hit F on the rift after the melee killed the boss for me.

Why did you not go into melee range and point blank shot the mob inside their shield??

[Roda.7468]

25 minutes ago, Linken.6345 said:

Why did you not go into melee range and point blank shot the mob inside their shield??

That was the first thing I tried- projectiles got deleted in the orb too as far as I could see

[SeTect.5918]

2 hours ago, Voramoz.6790 said:

That is a meta shift. Again I've been running a melee spear Engineer build in these events where I have been leveraging traits like Ironblooded. Again, that's what a meta shift is. The meta shift does not mean "melee is no longer viable."  The meta shift is "I have to incorporate some defenses in order to be viable in melee."

Its not about defenses. Its about having to fight for like a century if your quickness, might, fury and other boons are ripped away. Then as power builds you additonally just deal 50% damage because of weakness spam.

The enemies dont inflict a lot of damage and are somewhat easy to kill.
But still, ranged builds can kill them faster because they stay outside of their aoe.

Its not about adapting to their boon strip, i cant just increase the range of my sword or throw it at the target. Its a melee weapon.


But actually its far better now than it was before with the reduced radius. Its pretty much fine now.
The weakness spam could be less tho so power builds have it a bit easier dealing damage to them. S*cks if your half of your damage goes from 20k dmg hits to like 3k.

Edited August 23 by SeTect.5918

[Astralporing.1957]

5 hours ago, SeTect.5918 said:

I agree that rewards should be earned, but it shouldnt be punishing based on the weapon you are using, especially since something like engi basically has almost no ranged options. Except if you want to spam grenades of course.

We could have all went back to autoattacking on rifle mechs i guess. I'm sure that all those people shouting "the game needs difficulty, learn to adjust" would have been happy.

(Extra points for the mechs to spread boons to the people in melee range).

No need to do this now, seing how Anet did realize it was dumb, but the option is still there if they decide to do it again in the future.

[Mad Maxxie.6075]

I hate the puddles, it's neverending and it only really locks out melee. I'm playing through on Mesmer playing around with the spear and it sucks to have so many of the actually big enemies, basically force you off of the new weapon. It feels overly punishing to melee when you can swap to greatsword or dagger and suddenly it feels like it's not even a threat. There's nothing skillful about it, the boss is just perpetually in a giant death puddle so it's like choose pain or just stand outside of it with ranged weapons. If it was maybe player targeted to give the incentive to swap ranged of you get an indicator so you can run out and place the puddle away and then have the option to run back in and melee, it would be far less annoying but they just cover the entire melee range on this constant puddle.

I don't know if it's because I'm on Mesmer or if it feels different on other classes but it feels like so many of the new enemies are either equal difficulty with melee and ranged or they are specifically punishing to melee. I don't like it, it's very annoying to me now.

Edited August 24 by Mad Maxxie.6075

[Scar.1793]

On 8/23/2024 at 11:21 AM, Dean Calaway.9718 said:

Then what have I been doing since the minute the expansion dropped... ?

Oh that's right, playing it and fighting in melee range, work it out, deal with the corruption, the realm of possibility isn't limited by your skill set, so speak for yourself, you can't do it, don't imprint your short comings on anyone else.

 

And the squeaky wheel gets the grease...

• Reduced blighted beast area-of-effect attacks to relieve pressure on melee players and work more seamlessly with Greer's mechanics.

We couldn't have anything nice for long around here, it was fun while it lasted.

ooh you poor thing, a trash gimmick has been deleted. Hey if you want an actual challenge and fun content, ER and Souls games are there.

[Atoclone.4810]

On 8/23/2024 at 6:45 AM, Uthrax.4975 said:

Yeah and last patch they nerfed Ele 'Diamond Skin', trying to remove condis is a fun meta game in itself for Ele.....ugh.

As a melee ele player I've never really found removing condis to be a problem. Get smothering flames. Every time you get an aura you clear condi. Drop a field and do a leap, get an aura. Finish and overload, get an aura. Use a shout, get an aura. Some weapon sets have a button that gives an aura. If you need more cleansing slot in a cleansing sigil. Swap attunement, cleanse condi

[willow.8209]

On 8/20/2024 at 2:28 PM, ZenDrake.8316 said:

As a a scrapper I am just supposed to spam grenades or what?

That's what my mech does at WB/meta. because I can trait them to self-heal. 

[bq pd.2148]

On 8/24/2024 at 12:34 AM, Roda.7468 said:

That was the first thing I tried- projectiles got deleted in the orb too as far as I could see

area projectile denial like domes can be bypassed by standing not just inside the area, but inside the hitbox that you are hitting.
for most enemies you can stand inside the circle on the ground that appears when you target them.

essentially the projectile connects directly to your opponent without traveling through the denial area and thus is never destroyed/reflected.

this however does not work on personal projectile hate like the mesmer skill/effect 'Mirror' or Magnet auras. they work on projectiles that would hit their hitbox but nothing else, which is still happening.

[Uthrax.4975]

2 hours ago, Atoclone.4810 said:

As a melee ele player I've never really found removing condis to be a problem. Get smothering flames. Every time you get an aura you clear condi. Drop a field and do a leap, get an aura. Finish and overload, get an aura. Use a shout, get an aura. Some weapon sets have a button that gives an aura. If you need more cleansing slot in a cleansing sigil. Swap attunement, cleanse condi

I'm a tempest dagger/warhorn support auramancer mostly. Fire trait line is not a support trait line; although Smothering Flames is tempting to use, the rest of the trait line is not conducive to a support build. Giving up Water or Earth trait lines and all the support that comes with them for Fire trait line is meh. But I might adjust my solo build and see if it helps when fighting these new condi-spamming mobs in the xpac. Thanks.

[Atoclone.4810]

31 minutes ago, Uthrax.4975 said:

I'm a tempest dagger/warhorn support auramancer mostly. Fire trait line is not a support trait line; although Smothering Flames is tempting to use, the rest of the trait line is not conducive to a support build. Giving up Water or Earth trait lines and all the support that comes with them for Fire trait line is meh. But I might adjust my solo build and see if it helps when fighting these new condi-spamming mobs in the xpac. Thanks.

I'm away so can't check exact build but in wvw I play d/d fire water tempest. Smothering flames is the king as the there's a trait that will give all your aura goodies to others

[Uthrax.4975]

3 hours ago, Atoclone.4810 said:

I'm away so can't check exact build but in wvw I play d/d fire water tempest. Smothering flames is the king as the there's a trait that will give all your aura goodies to others

Yeah, it's 'Powerful Aura' in the water trait line. I'd be interested to know what fire traits other than Smothering Auras you're using.  And I assume you're running Celestial gear?

[Aelin.9317]

I didn't mind cleansing all my debuffs since I am playing vindi open world so I can cleanse myself frequently. But I will say that having to peel off the mobs for prolonged periods due to constant puddle spam was not very fun or engaging gameplay. I've started using spear and since it can do damage happily at range that's great for me. Standing waiting for a puddle to go away isn't thrilling gameplay. 

I don't think open world should start shunting people off melee builds, you should be able to play just about whatever you want and enjoy yourself imo. Have some close quarters mechanics but have places where melee can maintain uptime if they are paying attention. So many overlapping puddles from the mobs left whole platforms covered with nowhere to be, wasn't great. Glad to see a change for it.

[Sigmar.8614]

I'd be fine with whatever with the new enemies, "forced" ranged combat is just a design decision.
... but the problem is the execution.
They are janky-as-KITTENS.
They have their own boons... which are apparently about 200% uptime as they double down and you just can't keep their boons off even as a Necro with a Spear: https://imgur.com/a/rsbf95l

When there is more of them, they generate about as much visual noise as the pre-fix statue fight in Orr: https://imgur.com/a/tHdspWx

Their charge ability targeting and whatever else is going on means they go Invulnerable as they "catch up" a LOT: https://imgur.com/a/fuShmtm

They are also fully capable of locking out both Melee and Range - they can drop the range-blocking wall and spam anti-melee puddles at the same time.

And they aggro on you from so far away it's like they are standing guard with a telescope. Which would not be that much of a problem if they (and many other enemies, including in events - such as the poison valravn nests escort) didn't respawn almost immediately. (in the Valravn quest it keeps the NPC janking between going towards the nest she wants to poison, attacking the enemies and then going back to her standard pathing to try and walk back to the nests but a SINGLE enemy respawns and she goes to kill it... rinse and repeat until by some miracle you either insta-kill all enemies swooping in or get a sufficiently long window between respawns that she makes it to the nest)
 

[Linken.6345]

53 minutes ago, Sigmar.8614 said:

I'd be fine with whatever with the new enemies, "forced" ranged combat is just a design decision.
... but the problem is the execution.
They are janky-as-KITTENS.
They have their own boons... which are apparently about 200% uptime as they double down and you just can't keep their boons off even as a Necro with a Spear: https://imgur.com/a/rsbf95l

When there is more of them, they generate about as much visual noise as the pre-fix statue fight in Orr: https://imgur.com/a/tHdspWx

Their charge ability targeting and whatever else is going on means they go Invulnerable as they "catch up" a LOT: https://imgur.com/a/fuShmtm

They are also fully capable of locking out both Melee and Range - they can drop the range-blocking wall and spam anti-melee puddles at the same time.

And they aggro on you from so far away it's like they are standing guard with a telescope. Which would not be that much of a problem if they (and many other enemies, including in events - such as the poison valravn nests escort) didn't respawn almost immediately. (in the Valravn quest it keeps the NPC janking between going towards the nest she wants to poison, attacking the enemies and then going back to her standard pathing to try and walk back to the nests but a SINGLE enemy respawns and she goes to kill it... rinse and repeat until by some miracle you either insta-kill all enemies swooping in or get a sufficiently long window between respawns that she makes it to the nest)
 

So this was not play tested much is the feeling  I get from this post.

[Manasa Devi.7958]

1 hour ago, Sigmar.8614 said:

And they aggro on you from so far away it's like they are standing guard with a telescope. Which would not be that much of a problem if they (and many other enemies, including in events - such as the poison valravn nests escort) didn't respawn almost immediately. (in the Valravn quest it keeps the NPC janking between going towards the nest she wants to poison, attacking the enemies and then going back to her standard pathing to try and walk back to the nests but a SINGLE enemy respawns and she goes to kill it... rinse and repeat until by some miracle you either insta-kill all enemies swooping in or get a sufficiently long window between respawns that she makes it to the nest)
 

The Valravn poison event is just ridiculous. I was with 5 other people doing it earlier, and the spawns came faster than we could kill them. It seems the spawn rate scales with the number of people close by. Took us 15 minutes to get from nest 3 to the last one.

[Zenith.7301]

The weakness spam is making melee power specs all but worthless in open world.

 

It's one thing if these are infrequent condi applications, but even with a full kit of condi cleanse utilities and runes, they spam the condition so it's impossible to keep weakness off you.

[Zeph.5927]

I personally don’t care for the new Titan enemies. They spread their AoE vomit everywhere (some events it’s almost impossible to avoid). They constantly charge and jump around like they’re on meth 24/7. And some of them are just far too tanky for trash mobs.

It’s not that they’re hard, they’re just extremely annoying. And annoying is never a good thing in terms of video game mechanics.

[Bish.8627]

They have awful mechanics, but they also need their aggro ranged reduced massively