Celestial gear ?

[Kastagir.2146]

Ok, I am confused about this gear's usefulness. At first, I heard it was not that good but when I went to the auction house it's one of the most expensive gear listed. So what's the story with it, please?

 

[EDOTDOT.9265]

It's a matter of context.  It's not the most desirable type for certain modes and builds but generally speaking, it can be your go-to type for open world content.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

Cost =/= best. 

Crafting Cele gear is simply expensive because of the materials needed. 

Not because it's necessary desirable. 

Especially not exotic Cele gear. 

Ascended Cele gear is a different story. 

Cele is a very good stat for WvW players and people like to use it in Openworld builds. 

Otherwise, it's never the best option. Except in extremely niche situations like Wvw Roaming builds. 

 

[Danikat.8537]

Because GW2 uses horizontal progression it's not a good idea to assume something is better because it's more expensive. A lot of expensive items cost a  lot because of how they look or, as with celestial gear, because the materials needed to make them are harder to get.

As a general rule all items with the same level and rarity are equally good. All level 80 exotics have equal stats, what makes them better or worse is whether those are the right stats for your build. For example if you never use damaging conditions then the Conditions Damage stat is useless to you and items which boost it will be worse than other options. 

Celestial is an anomaly: it boosts every stat, but gives less to each one. It's not a good choice for most builds because most don't use every stat equally and are better off specialising, but there are some which use it. It's also a good choice if you don't know what you want or you're experimenting, because you won't get the false impression that a skill is weak because you have the wrong stats for it. 

[Zyreva.1078]

3 hours ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

Otherwise, it's never the best option. Except in extremely niche situations like Wvw Roaming builds.

Cele is great for WvW roaming. Cele is great for WvW zerging. Cele is great for solo PvE. Cele is decent for casual instanced PvE and can be used for any role. If anything it's all the other stats that are only optimal in specialized raid comps and for very specialized roles (both PvE and WvW), that are "niche". Cele is the optimal stat choice whenever defense and self buffing capabilities aren't irrelevant and for most players that applies to most content (ofc you still need a corresponding build, but that is true for all stats).

Cele is op. Fact.

1 hour ago, Danikat.8537 said:

As a general rule all items with the same level and rarity are equally good. All level 80 exotics have equal stats

This is incorrect. 4 stat gear offers more total stats than 3 stat gear and cele gear offers a lot! more total stats than both. And for most content more than 4 stats are relevant. Again, specialized roles in specialized comps are the only exception. There are also a lot of stat combinations that don't have much synergy with anything and are generally pretty useless. Especially when compared to cele.

Edited September 12 by Zyreva.1078

[DanAlcedo.3281]

42 minutes ago, Zyreva.1078 said:

Cele is great for WvW roaming. Cele is great for WvW zerging. Cele is great for solo PvE. Cele is decent for casual instanced PvE and can be used for any role. If anything it's all the other stats that are only optimal in specialized raid comps and for very specialized roles (both PvE and WvW), that are "niche". Cele is the optimal stat choice whenever defense isn't irrelevant and for most players that applies to most content (ofc you still need a corresponding build, but that is true for all stats).

Cele is op. Fact.

This is incorrect. 4 stat gear offers more total stats than 3 stat gear and cele gear offers a lot! more total stats than both. And for most content more than 4 stats are relevant. Again, specialized roles in specialized comps are the only exception. There are also a lot of stat combinations that don't have much synergy with anything and are generally pretty useless. Especially when compared to cele.

Yes. 

Cele is only the best possible choice in extremely niche situations. Like a small pool of WVW roaming builds. 

Everywhere else, it's literally training wheels. 

A proper gear setup will outperform it. 

You don't need the extra defensive stats in Openworld when you are good at the game. 

A specialist role in Wvw with specialized gear is better in group play than doing your job worse on purpose. 

Yes. Cele is a good stat. 

Yes. You can perform good with it. 

But it (almost) never will outperform a proper gear setup. 

The reason people see Cele as OP is because it doesn't need any braincells to make work. 

Simply slap full Cele on any build and it will perform decently. 

Which is enough for most players. 

Proper build crafting takes time and thought. 

Edited September 12 by DanAlcedo.3281

[Zyreva.1078]

10 minutes ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

Simply slap full Cele on any build and it will perform decently.

Slap cele on a proper cele build and it becomes op.

->

12 minutes ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

Proper build crafting takes time and thought. 

[Dean Calaway.9718]

Celestial Gear has basically became a scapegoat for people that can't wrap their heads around the fact other people are just better than them.

So you get gems like this...

1 hour ago, Zyreva.1078 said:

Cele is op. Fact.

You see, @Kastagir.2146 when something is truly OP, people don't complain about it, they use it and enjoy it while they can, when ever you see someone complaining this or that is OP just ask them "why don't you use it then" and watch some ridiculous reply, that is if they reply at all.

This is basically Magic Find gear all over again, for people that don't know, Magic Find used to be a stat in gear, not an account wide unlock, and back in the day there was a lot of QQing from people dying in dungeons because "others must be wearing Magic Find gear" even if they probably weren't and never mind the fact in those early days support wasn't really a thing and players were responsible for their own healing and most importantly DODGE but cue in The Hundred Blade Zerker Warrior, a species that could only press their macro key and that was it, when ever the going got tough they'd die left and right and blame everyone else still stranding. So Anet just removed magic find gear from the game to appease them and if they were to remove celestial gear now be sure the QQers would quickly find a whole new target to blame for their short comings.

Edited September 12 by Dean Calaway.9718

[willow.8209]

like they said, for solo and pug play, cele is fine. in some cases great.

for organized group play, you usually need something more specific. Tho cele might still be the right thing for certain classes, like ele.

If you want something that isn't affordable on the Trading Post, some good options are:

Bladed armor - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W) (verdant brink, requires heart of thorns)--box is colored rare but the gear is exotic. can't get the chest piece without a very successful meta tho, which I haven't seen happen in a long time. Get a substitute chest piece (match 2 stats of a 3-stat combo, match 3 stats of a 4-stat combo, find something that adds sustain or adds damage) or spring for just the one piece with the stats you want

WvW armor TEID-07 Unified Vendor System - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W) (there's also a random asuran merchant by the gates that sells the same items for the same currency; you do need to do a little wvw for the badges of honor)

Edited September 12 by willow.8209

[Ashantara.8731]

6 hours ago, Kastagir.2146 said:

Ok, I am confused about this gear's usefulness. At first, I heard it was not that good but when I went to the auction house it's one of the most expensive gear listed. So what's the story with it, please?

There are very few builds (not even a handful) that work with Celestial gear. In my opinion, it is not desireable to go down that road. (And, as others explained, the price does not reflect the quality/usefulness.)

[Zyreva.1078]

1 hour ago, Dean Calaway.9718 said:

You see, @Kastagir.2146 when something is truly OP, people don't complain about it, they use it and enjoy it while they can, when ever you see someone complaining this or that is OP just ask them "why don't you use it then" and watch some ridiculous reply, that is if they reply at all.

I use cele.

29 minutes ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

There are very few builds (not even a handful) that work with Celestial gear.

Not true, it generally "works" on any hybrid build. And whether it is better than viper or ritualist or not depends on the exact build and situation ofc. But a lot of the time it will actually be better. At least for the average player out there.

Edited September 12 by Zyreva.1078

[Parasite.5389]

7 hours ago, Kastagir.2146 said:

Ok, I am confused about this gear's usefulness. At first, I heard it was not that good but when I went to the auction house it's one of the most expensive gear listed. So what's the story with it, please?

Celestial stat gear requires Charged Quartz Crystals, an account-bound material that takes 25 Quartz Crystals, combinded at a channelable Hero points to produce a single unit, limited to 1 unit per day/per account, with Insignia and Inscriptions needing 2 crystals per; this means it will take a player 12 days to get the materials needed to craft a full set of Exotic armour

 

[Randulf.7614]

I use it on my ele which it suits in open world perfetcly and I've clicked better with it than any other stat combo Ive tried. Sure it's not good for high end stuff, but I wouldn't be good enough for that with a different stat combo anyway

It's also time gated to craft

Ignore the nonsense above that it doesn't work with any build. It works for the average player with plenty of builds - especially hybrid classes like eles. And since most players don't care about min/maxing and optimisation, it is perfect for them and me.

[Shuzuru.3651]

2 hours ago, Dean Calaway.9718 said:

This is basically Magic Find gear all over again, for people that don't know, Magic Find used to be a stat in gear, not an account wide unlock, and back in the day there was a lot of QQing from people dying in dungeons because "others must be wearing Magic Find gear" even if they probably weren't and never mind the fact in those early days support wasn't really a thing and players were responsible for their own healing and most importantly DODGE but cue in The Hundred Blade Zerker Warrior, a species that could only press their macro key and that was it, when ever the going got tough they'd die left and right and blame everyone else still stranding. So Anet just removed magic find gear from the game to appease them and if they were to remove celestial gear now be sure the QQers would quickly find a whole new target to blame for their short comings.

This is completely false, you're either misremembering or rewriting history.

The problem with Magic Find gear is that those wearing it were objectively contributing less (because Magic Find is useless in combat) while having better loot (because of Magic Find).

That was unfair so removed, for the best.

[Chyro.1462]

It's a very comfortable stat combination when you're doing open world, story, dungeons or even lower fractals that don't run a proper party setup.

Some classes and builds get more value from having all stats than others, but pretty much any build can function with cele - just not at optimal output.

The price on TP has nothing to do with how many people want or use it, it's due to the cost of materials required to craft it.

If you're doing higher end group content with proper party composition (with full boon coverage through boon dps + boon heal) and you want to optimize your output, celestial shouldn't be your choice. If you're a dps in a decent group, survivability, healing or boon duration are not your concern - so all the defensive and supportive stats are wasted for your build. Thus pure offensive stat sets that fit your build are recommended in any instanced-content build guide. Same for boon dps, though they may also put in some concentration for their boon uptime - aside from that, it's all offensive stats. Healers meanwhile go for purely defensive-supportive stats, though there are situations where a healer may have reason to run celestial (if they run in an optimized group where the healing output is already high enough for the encounter, the boon duration is covered and their class can turn the extra offensive stats into a bit more damage).

Edited September 12 by Chyro.1462

[Farohna.6247]

It's the charged quartz used in the crafting of it that makes it expensive.  

Celestial is fun for open world solo'ing, WvW builds, and just general casual play.  I would look into builds before crafting (or buying) and see what would appeal to you and your needs. 

[Mungrul.9358]

7 hours ago, Danikat.8537 said:

It's not a good choice for most builds because most don't use every stat equally and are better off specialising

It does however open up some interesting "Jack-of-all-Trades" build possibilities though, where you can dip into a little bit of everything. I quite like it on Core Thief, for example.

If you're not chasing the meta and trying to generate MAD DPS, it opens up a lot of intriguing possibilities.

[Sobx.1758]

 

[Danikat.8537]

1 hour ago, Mungrul.9358 said:

It does however open up some interesting "Jack-of-all-Trades" build possibilities though, where you can dip into a little bit of everything. I quite like it on Core Thief, for example.

If you're not chasing the meta and trying to generate MAD DPS, it opens up a lot of intriguing possibilities.

That's why I said most. There are definitely builds which make good use of it, I've been using it on my tempest ele for years because she needs to do a bit of everything so it works well. The important thing for this thread is the price isn't a clue that it's much better and more in-demand than other stat combinations.

[Kastagir.2146]

OK thank you everyone for replies.

[Dean Calaway.9718]

7 hours ago, Shuzuru.3651 said:

This is completely false, you're either misremembering or rewriting history.

That isn't completely false, you're just denying the truth, dungeons 2012 with PuGs had about a 30% chance of having a Zerker Warrior dead on the ground complaining about if someone was running Magic Find gear instead of just rushing back.

Maybe that's an embarrassing memory FOR SOME but denying it doesn't make it completely false as much as some people might hope 😉

[Buran.3796]

   Celestial provides A LOT more stat points than a 3 stat gear or 4 stats gear; for example from  berserker to viper you increase the stats available in a 9.5%, but from berseker to celestial you get almost a 75% increse in stat points. That points get spared equally amongst 9 stats (both primary and secondary) and that makes celestial special:

* In game modes in which you want to fufill a very specific role in a extensive team, as dps, support dps or healer, like happens in raids, people favours maximizing your role so dps go full berserker (for power builds) or full viper (for condi builds) plus the required adjust to max out things as crit chance or condition duration so the kill times are shorter and more efficient.

* For competitive modes or game modes in which you're on your own, and specifically for builds that can take advantage of more than 4 stats (because you need damage and defenses and healing power and you also benefit for enhancing the duration of your own boons) celestial reigns supreme.

  To put it in contest: in PvP celestial was so brutally overpowered that was removed from the choices of amulets, and in WvW for both roaming and large scale zerging is so dominant that most of the builds in the meta do use it. In solo PvE, also, celestial provides the most tanky builds in the game. Some would argue that a pure dps build well played can deal with everything, and yet that doesn't change the fact that celestail allows to be tankier and survive everything.

   IMO, celestial is the perfect choice for the first set of ascended gear, unless you're absolutely focused on doing raids, strikes and fractals.

[willow.8209]

To add to the part about why celestial is downplayed, I assume it's because in other games, raid gear is the strongest. So people might check on raid builds and take that to other content, thinking it's going to be the best for any content in GW2. Problem is, in this game raid gear isn't strongest, just the most specialized (since in an organized group you can figure there will be someone to cover all the roles and you can focus on just 1 role, so specialized gear is superior in that case). Raid builds in GW2 are not necessarily the best for every content.

In many other games specialization is partly by traits and partly by class (roughly analogous to "profession" in GW2-- in other games profession might refer, for example, to your crafting discipline). Gear has stats but it might be fairly standardized to the 3 expected roles and a bit of supplemental stats like crits and sustain. You'll have a specialized role in any content (and may need to state your role in any group you join, and being able to cooperate with nearby players on a goal even in open world without joining a group may not be a thing). 

In GW2, specialization is partly by traits and partly by gear stats. Profession/class has some impact but usually pretty flexible. And the sets of roles are different. In most content you need to perform more than 1 role (not a single specialized role), so specialized gear is not necessarily your best choice. Unless the content is especially difficult, requires coordination and going to separate areas, or it's being run extra fast, you don't need to join a group or state your role, in order to play cooperatively with nearby players (that's one of the great innovations of GW2 in my opinion). 

The age-old adage, "dead dps is no dps" applies to all games. 

Edited September 13 by willow.8209

[Kastagir.2146]

So if you are a casual player that just does story and open-world content Celestrial is good for that? 

[EDOTDOT.9265]

11 minutes ago, Kastagir.2146 said:

So if you are a casual player that just does story and open-world content Celestrial is good for that? 

Yes.