Thoughts on anet nerfing other stats on armour in the future

[ChrisWhitey.9076]

This quote from the balance update makes me think this is something that might happen to other builds. Did Pandora’s box get opened? I like to see some thoughts on this.

”we may use going forward to tune other attribute combinations in WvW specifically.”

source: 

 

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

13 minutes ago, ChrisWhitey.9076 said:

This quote from the balance update makes me think this is something that might happen to other builds. Did Pandora’s box get opened? I like to see some thoughts on this.

”we may use going forward to tune other attribute combinations in WvW specifically.”

source: 

 

Yes. Pandora's box. Because A-net is not going to use it to improve stat sets that need improving, they are going to use it on stats that function until they don't function anymore, in an effort to cater to the lowest common denominator of player complaints.

Edited Sunday at 02:27 PM by JusticeRetroHunter.7684

[schloumou.3982]

At this point it is just a tool to address balance in a more specific way. If it allows WvW to be more independent from PvE balance i'll gladly take it and wait for the individual buffs/nerfs to criticize.

 

[Riba.3271]

Hopefully they use it to reduce amount of Concentration in gear. 70%+ boon durations just mean key boons like stability are permanent and groups can keep running around without having to utilitize terrain for advantageous regroups.

Edited Sunday at 04:39 PM by Riba.3271

[joneirikb.7506]

To quote a friend of mine when I told him about the change:

"Well, yes.  They're just acknowledging WvW is uniquely dysfunctional.  By removing functions."

But on topic, I'm honestly struggling to see this being used beyond a "This is screwing over WvW, but would upset PVE players, let's just use this thing again."  And with how little ANet seems to bother with WvW Balance, I'm honestly not very worried that they're going to do rapid-fire changes to anything anytime soon.

Besides, with the how much they love boons in general, in 1-2 years, Celestial won't need Concentration to have 100% boon uptime anyways! 😛 

Edited Sunday at 04:50 PM by joneirikb.7506

[ArchonWing.9480]

Or maybe they could buff like those core stats nobody uses.

In b4 people start investing in givers.

Squishier healers/support stats may actually be entertaining but I think that would require more changes than that. But what if someone wants to go 70% minstrel, 30% excitement? They should be able to.

Edited Sunday at 06:45 PM by ArchonWing.9480

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

1 hour ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

Or maybe they could buff like those core stats nobody uses.

In b4 people start investing in givers.

Squishier healers/support stats may actually be entertaining but I think that would require more changes than that. But what if someone wants to go 70% minstrel, 30% excitement? They should be able to.

I would straight up play a 1 stat combo that was just healing power, if it was something like 2800 - 3000 healing power. If it existed.

Edited Sunday at 07:52 PM by JusticeRetroHunter.7684

[Gaiawolf.8261]

I have to be honest here, my fear is that this is a prelude to nuking defensive stats and other tools that older players and those with physical limitations rely on to stay competitive in WVW. I hope this isn't just foreshadowing a more ganker-friendly, high reaction dependant play environment. 🙏

Most content creators I follow understand these issues. Does Anet?

[Zyreva.1078]

24 minutes ago, Gaiawolf.8261 said:

I have to be honest here, my fear is that this is a prelude to nuking defensive stats and other tools that older players and those with physical limitations rely on to stay competitive in WVW. I hope this isn't just foreshadowing a more ganker-friendly, high reaction dependant play environment. 🙏

Most content creators I follow understand these issues. Does Anet?

The usual balance direction points into the opposite direction - with many buffs to defenses and quite some dmg nerfs. So idk why you'd think they might remove/reduce defensive stats out of a sudden.

[Dean Calaway.9718]

7 hours ago, ChrisWhitey.9076 said:

Did Pandora’s box get opened?

Yup, nothing is sacred anymore.

Honestly at this point they could just copy the PvP Amulet system, why not.

[Gaiawolf.8261]

1 hour ago, Zyreva.1078 said:

The usual balance direction points into the opposite direction - with many buffs to defenses and quite some dmg nerfs. So idk why you'd think they might remove/reduce defensive stats out of a sudden.

Mostly because those were that stats that  forum roamers were complaining about besides celestial. I guess a bunch of posters here like powe vs power duels in a game mode designed for mass scale objective capping, for some reason.

[ArchonWing.9480]

2 hours ago, Zyreva.1078 said:

The usual balance direction points into the opposite direction - with many buffs to defenses and quite some dmg nerfs. So idk why you'd think they might remove/reduce defensive stats out of a sudden.

Especially when the nerf to Cele is mostly towards its offensive potential; it still has defensive stats that are untouched.

[ArchonWing.9480]

1 hour ago, Gaiawolf.8261 said:

Mostly because those were that stats that  forum roamers were complaining about besides celestial. I guess a bunch of posters here like powe vs power duels in a game mode designed for mass scale objective capping, for some reason.

Weird statement when large scale has largely been power dominated until recently.

Edited Sunday at 11:16 PM by ArchonWing.9480

[Buran.3796]

Just now, ArchonWing.9480 said:

Especially when the nerf to Cele is mostly towards its offensive potential; it still has defensive stats that are untouched.

   Cele will now be mostly a power stat combo for frontlines; since lacks condi duration won't be a good choice for condi builds and with no boon duration won't be good for support roles. Some builds that could benefit from cele would maybe Guardians since oftenly rely in power and the burn procs are just added damage which resets over and over, albeit a power WB with marauder/dragon has much higher burst.

   The thing is that I don't think the overall composition in zergs will change much in roles (would change in specs), in the sense that youn want mostly support (3-4 x squad) with one or two damage dealers. 

[Gaiawolf.8261]

Just now, ArchonWing.9480 said:

  

Weird statement when large scale has largely been power dominated until recently.

I think the primary complainers are small scale roamers, but I could be wrong. 🤷‍♂️ Tbh, most of the complaints I've personally seen come from roamers when someone runs anything other than glass cannon builds, celestial or otherwise, win or lose.

[ArchonWing.9480]

10 minutes ago, Buran.3796 said:

   Cele will now be mostly a power stat combo for frontlines; since lacks condi duration won't be a good choice for condi builds and with no boon duration won't be good for support roles. Some builds that could benefit from cele would maybe Guardians since oftenly rely in power and the burn procs are just added damage which resets over and over, albeit a power WB with marauder/dragon has much higher burst.

   The thing is that I don't think the overall composition in zergs will change much in roles (would change in specs), in the sense that youn want mostly support (3-4 x squad) with one or two damage dealers. 

Yea, most nerfs don't really change compositions. But it does force people to adjust and make tradeoffs. No change alone can change a meta unless it's extremely destructive.

Depends on the support roles. For example, Cele Scourge has mostly utility that isn't affected by boon duration, however Cele Guardian will be forced to take something like Leadership runes and probably some silly boon duration utility. Magnaminous Oils are back in style. 

I am kinda skeptical about the expertise really mattering because everyone cleanses fast and any condi damage is burst. I suppose the biggest loser here must be Cele Spellbreaker because their soft ccs are weakened.

 

8 minutes ago, Gaiawolf.8261 said:

I think the primary complainers are small scale roamers, but I could be wrong. 🤷‍♂️ Tbh, most of the complaints I've personally seen come from roamers when someone runs anything other than glass cannon builds, celestial or otherwise, win or lose.

Some of them are, but you need to understand even if you just dodge against them, they will still be accusing  be you of running Celestial even if you didn't

That being said, I strongly doubt the changes were based off small scale, because Anet doesn't care about small scale. The change to stealth and revealed may be a first though.

In practice your boon duration wouldn't really help against them to begin with, because most of the time Cele prevents you from getting 1 shot and it is highly unlikely you'll have boons up if you got caught off guard, because, well, you got caught off guard.

Boon Duration  would definitely help you kill them, but I don't think that was a primary goal you listed above. Furthermore, depending on your class, you may want to look for flat bonuses that work nicely to prop up Cele's spread out stat spread. (lol signets)

 

Edited Sunday at 11:29 PM by ArchonWing.9480

[Gaiawolf.8261]

29 minutes ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

Some of them are, but you need to understand even if you just dodge against them, they will still be accusing  be you of running Celestial even if you didn't

That being said, I strongly doubt the changes were based off small scale, because Anet doesn't care about small scale. The change to stealth and revealed may be a first though.

In practice your boon duration wouldn't really help against them to begin with, because most of the time Cele prevents you from getting 1 shot and it is highly unlikely you'll have boons up if you got caught off guard, because, well, you got caught off guard.

Boon Duration  would definitely help you kill them, but I don't think that was a primary goal you listed above. Furthermore, depending on your class, you may want to look for flat bonuses that work nicely to prop up Cele's spread out stat spread. (lol signets)

 

Agree on pretty all points here. Complainers gonna complain. Anet absolutely balances WVW on a broad scale, not small scale roamers, although I still think most complainers are small scale roamers who want the game mode to cater toward them more. My concern I listed above was due mostly to some complaints I've seen. I hope Anet judges on their data, and not the complaints I've seen. They have been taking our feedback more to heart lately, especially with spears. So, I guess we'll see.

[Kulvar.1239]

10 hours ago, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

Yes. Pandora's box. Because A-net is not going to use it to improve stat sets that need improving, they are going to use it on stats that function until they don't function anymore, in an effort to cater to the lowest common denominator of player complaints.

It's worse than that, they'll slowly break everything apart until it end with the "flavor of the month" gear in a cycle:

• berserker: because nobody was able to kill anything
• minstrel: because everybody was insta-killed
• repeat endlessly

At this point it would be simpler to make celestial the only gear in WvW and balance WvW around everyone having celestial gear...

Edited Monday at 12:32 AM by Kulvar.1239

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

So long as they use this new tech to normalize the stat totals, so that the 3, 4, and cele stat gear all had the same totals, then I think it will be fine.

IF they begin tinkering with individual stat totals on certain prefixes... That will be a slippery slope they will never get out of.

[Dawdler.8521]

9 hours ago, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

I would straight up play a 1 stat combo that was just healing power, if it was something like 2800 - 3000 healing power. If it existed.

And you'd still only heal for like 10000 hp instead of 6000hp while someone comes up and does 10000 damage with their autoattack.

[Bleikopf.2491]

16 hours ago, Riba.3271 said:

Hopefully they use it to reduce amount of Concentration in gear. 70%+ boon durations just mean key boons like stability are permanent and groups can keep running around without having to utilitize terrain for advantageous regroups.

They should first normalize "Boon Duration" / "Condition Duration" in runes to Concentration/Expertise. 

The current system gives +10% Boon/Condition Duration too much, that's 150 free stats. 

The other side of the problem is the amount of boons available, needing less Concentration to be effective. Nerf boon spam, normalize Runes and then they might actually have to implement prefixes with Concentration as a main stat, which we only have Diviners of currently. 

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

3 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

And you'd still only heal for like 10000 hp instead of 6000hp while someone comes up and does 10000 damage with their autoattack.

Don’t stand in the red circles maybe, L2 dodge, don’t be a dps golem.

Edited Monday at 09:07 AM by JusticeRetroHunter.7684

[Langeball.9351]

Don't open pandoras box. Just give pve cele the same treatment.

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

12 minutes ago, Langeball.9351 said:

Just give pve cele the same treatment.

oh you see...about that...the "cele has the most stats therefor it is the best stat set" argument doesn't apply over there. I'm so sorry.

 

Edited Monday at 10:49 AM by JusticeRetroHunter.7684

[Wolfhound.4381]

21 hours ago, ChrisWhitey.9076 said:

This quote from the balance update makes me think this is something that might happen to other builds. Did Pandora’s box get opened? I like to see some thoughts on this.

”we may use going forward to tune other attribute combinations in WvW specifically.”

source: 

 

That's exactly what I see happening. It's just a matter of time before they start nerfing other stats. You don't make a new tool to just use it once, you will use it as often as you can because it's the new shiny thing.