Current state of pvp drove me away in less than 24 hours.

[TheQuickFox.3826]

@"Aedaryl.3195" said:There is few reaseon to hate the actual damage meta :

• You may have a bad build

What's the "meta" build you were using ? Write it here please : http://fr.gw2skills.net/editor/You need to know Ele only have 2 build that work in PvP, if you don't play them you are free kills.

• You don't understand what people are doing so you don't react well

  Scourge, the new Necro elite is full AoE heavy condition application : if you don't run a super condi clear build, you can't stay in there AoE, that's simple.-Daedeye, the new thief elite is a sniper heavy damage build : If you notice the mark on you, you will react proprely by dodging/using reflet projectils, blocking.-The list is long, but if you don't know how work classes and what to do for counter, you can't enjoy the meta.

There is 2 ways to play Ele :

In a tanky way so you will be tanky :

or in a glass canon way : you will have extremely high damage but will be in paper :

Let's take that :

It's the perfect exemple of the guy with a bad build (he run scepter + dagger and that's bad because focus give defense aka 10s+ of reflect projectile countering the sniper 100%, bad healing skill, bad ulitilies and bad ultimate, can't even think about traits) don't knowing what ennemies are doing (he has a RED MARK on him telling he will be sniped) and hwo doesn't react proprely (no dodge, no reflect using, no escape tool used) and die.

Thanks. That "guy", is my own Aranimda.My point there never has been that I'm good at this or my build is best here but when I look for a competitive scepter/dagger build I get nothing. The fact that you can only mention two builds that are good in the current meta actually says enough. Both are complicated to play so no option for me. The problem is lack of choice of viable builds and lack of survivability for all non-meta builds.

About the movie: At the time I see the red mark of death around me I already lost half my health and are my skills on recharge because of intterrupt. Sure, I should have dodged there but I would have died a second later. And not everyone has the skill to correctly time split-second dodges. But don't get me wrong. I'm just a casual-ish player playing some unranked (should be accessible?) PvP. I should lose against a better player on 1v1. But so quickly? I think it's ridiculous.

[Ferus.3165]

@Genesis.5169 said:

@Ferus.3165 said:

@zombyturtle.5980 said:

@Genesis.5169 said:Vanilla Wars 2 was more bursty then now. I have no idea what past your trying to look back on, power shatter mesmers, ghost thieves, Hammer warriors knock down into 9b etc etc.

This past you speak of never existed. The only difference between Vanilla Wars 2 And Guild Wars 2 PoF is that people are actually playing condition builds while not being a Necro. Ele's suck in sPvP from my perspective that could be another reason why your having such a bad time.

Your post made me reconsider my problems. I guess my main issue is that there is no clear tell for when these conditions and damage are about to be applied to you. They just appear on you with often no animation from the enemy to signal their appearance. They are applied so fast too and from so many different sources that its almost impossible to avoid them. I honestly cant learn how to get better when I cant see where the damage is coming from. Part of this problem is likely visual effect overload.

With old vanilla builds there weere usually animations that would signal an enemy was about to hit you. For hammer warrior, you could clearly see the warrior jump at you with a hammer, and then use a gs attack to deal dmg. This means you can learn next time to avoid the hammer blow or stunbreak before the gs attack. Same with shatter mes, whos illusions would run towards you.

I agree with you though that burst damage hasnt changed much.

Anyways the point of my OP was not to discuss if burst has gotten worse or not but to simply give feedback that returning as a new player in this meta has been the worst experience for me so far in gw2.

Nah you were right. Back before HoT the game was the best it has ever been from a pvp point of view. Burst and condition spam were alot less, the game was alot "slower" meaning you got more time to react to things and most abilites had serious cooldowns. You could even compare gw2 pvp to mobas like smite. But those days are gone and turned into the spamfiesta it is right now. Just look at the 100b ability from warrior. Back in the day it was a menacing dps skill, today it's almost completely useless (pitiful dmg and awkward mechanics)

The game was not alot slower, the game had an absurd burst meta where everyone died quickly the reason why power creep exists now and all the invuls is because anet was trying to fix the insane burst we had then.

You never played vanilla please don't try and act like you did.

Completely wrong, sry to destroy your imagination, but burst was A LOT less before HoT. Dmg overall was less, more cds less spam, pvp was far more enjoyable. I played a lot pvp before HoT came out and the pvp took a huge step down with that release.

[Nilkemia.8507]

PvP is good for nothing but reward tracks now. You made the smart choice staying out.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

It'll never be balanced. I'll accept that now. There's always going to be a handful of classes that have incredibly forgiving or damaging rotations and a handful of classes that are just generally useless. And given that balance patches are only major every half a year, there is very little chance that the single shot Anet takes at balancing before a season starts will actually fix the problems. They just do not balance frequently enough to address what is overpowered versus what is underpowered.

Either save yourself the trouble by not playing, or be prepared for long hours sifting through combat logs and looking at death tooltips to find out how to not die. And also pray that, while training your classes of choice to deal with these monstrosities, Anet doesnt throw a wrench into your plan by doing a mid-season patch that does nothing but gut the class you're training to fight the monstrosities .

[Abazigal.3679]

@"Genesis.5169" said:Vanilla Wars 2 was more bursty then now. I have no idea what past your trying to look back on, power shatter mesmers, ghost thieves, Hammer warriors knock down into 9b etc etc.

This past you speak of never existed. The only difference between Vanilla Wars 2 And Guild Wars 2 PoF is that people are actually playing condition builds while not being a Necro. Ele's suck in sPvP from my perspective that could be another reason why your having such a bad time.

It was different, because you had " fighting builds " and capping builds too. I remember several teams playing around capping only with portal and stuff, this was strategy. You could hardly kill but you could play around capping and holding. Last games i played in platinum were about spellbreaker + scourge + firebrand + revenant, match being summed in people engaging anything with no risk. No strategy, no thinking of countering build. Hardly read anything in teambattles, it's about spamming everything on one that will end up dying hopefully 2 seconds before your teammate.

I'm exaggerating a bit, but that's what my last solo queue matchs looked. I can understand this isn't fun for some players

[Ziggityzog.7389]

If only gw2 were like gw1 and pvp was TDM maps and not circle quest. Only in circle quest will a bunker build be used to sit on a single circle all game. Well played you can spam skill and heals... wow

[Felipe.1807]

@Razor.6392 said:

@Genesis.5169 said:Vanilla Wars 2 was more bursty then now. I have no idea what past your trying to look back on, power shatter mesmers, ghost thieves, Hammer warriors knock down into 9b etc etc.

This past you speak of never existed. The only difference between Vanilla Wars 2 And Guild Wars 2 PoF is that people are actually playing condition builds while not being a Necro. Ele's suck in sPvP from my perspective that could be another reason why your having such a bad time.

Wrong, again.

Power shatter didn't burst harder than it does now (not by any stretch of the imagination)Ghost thieves is a wvw build. It didn't kill you in 2 seconds (read: it has no

burst

)Hammer warriors still gave you a really huge window for counterplay and stun breaks.

I have no idea why you try to defend this horrible state of pvp so much. I honestly don't think you

ever

played vanilla pvp.

lol Genesis think Mirage is completely balanced...dont think you should take serious anything that he/she says...

[Genesis.5169]

@Felipe.1807 said:

@Razor.6392 said:

@Genesis.5169 said:Vanilla Wars 2 was more bursty then now. I have no idea what past your trying to look back on, power shatter mesmers, ghost thieves, Hammer warriors knock down into 9b etc etc.

This past you speak of never existed. The only difference between Vanilla Wars 2 And Guild Wars 2 PoF is that people are actually playing condition builds while not being a Necro. Ele's suck in sPvP from my perspective that could be another reason why your having such a bad time.

Wrong, again.

Power shatter didn't burst harder than it does now (not by any stretch of the imagination)Ghost thieves is a wvw build. It didn't kill you in 2 seconds (read: it has no

burst

)Hammer warriors still gave you a really huge window for counterplay and stun breaks.

I have no idea why you try to defend this horrible state of pvp so much. I honestly don't think you

ever

played vanilla pvp.

lol Genesis think Mirage is completely balanced...dont think you should take serious anything that he/she says...

I think you should learn to play the game, before you make judgements.

[Crab Fear.1624]

Alot of people say if it was like GW1...maybe if there were different game modes, PVP would change, idk. But trust me the cheeze, spams, conditions, and pretty much the equality of professions was no better in GW1.

There is the circle that we dance around in addition to the nodes in conquest...the circle of the OP meta shit...pick one of the OP meta shit kits and play it (competently) to move up or get farmed, but stop complaining.

[EnderzShadow.2506]

OP Probably walked by a mirage fightCondi thief

[MithranArkanere.8957]

There is no way to fix this without making fundamental changes to game mechanics.

Tweaking numbers and changing skills will do nothing at all. Make something less spammable, people will spam something different.

[Rodzynald.5897]

@Genesis.5169 said:Vanilla Wars 2 was more bursty then now. I have no idea what past your trying to look back on, power shatter mesmers, ghost thieves, Hammer warriors knock down into 9b etc etc.

The current condition of pvp compared to how it was back in the day proves your statement to not be entirely true (not entirely because the rest is just your opinion).I enjoyed it A LOT and I didn't even play meta. Back then mistakes were punished and executed asap without any strong passive play to aid that.

[Arheundel.6451]

@Crab Fear.1624 said:Alot of people say if it was like GW1...maybe if there were different game modes, PVP would change, idk. But trust me the cheeze, spams, conditions, and pretty much the equality of professions was no better in GW1.

There is the circle that we dance around in addition to the nodes in conquest...the circle of the OP meta kitten...pick one of the OP meta kitten kits and play it (competently) to move up or get farmed, but stop complaining.

Comparing GW2 to...the mastery of GW1? .....

There was no must have profession, no Iwin team composition and every profession had competitive builds (multiple ones) for high level pvp...which looking at AT class representation in GW2, soloq typical class distribution...I'd say it's clearly not the case

-Hero ascent, GvG, Capture to the flag...compared to Conquest?...no...pls no, let's no go there

H9, g8, exTOP GvG 50.....I ask you please do not insult my memory by comparing this pile of garbage to the greatness of GW1 Thank You

[Chilli.2976]

@zombyturtle.5980 said:Im an old vet player. I used to pvp quite alot before HOT but quit for awhile post-hot. I came back about 6 months ago, and today decided to try pvping again.

I am not going to comment on balance, as i dont understand the current meta enough to have any opinion. I would just like to say that I had such a miserable experience that after 1 day of trying to get back into it I can safely say I have 0 desire to ever approach PVP in this game ever again.

Taking so much damage and having so many conditions on me in less than 2 seconds left me no way to understand what I was doing wrong or even where the damage was coming from. (playing meta ele build) I feel that I cant improve my own gameplay in this current state and I cant learn from my mistakes when im being killed in under 5 seconds. Yes this is my fault for not knowing the meta, but I still think its valuable feedback that for returning and new players that the games state is so unenjoyable and has such a big barrier to entry.

Okay bye.

[Crab Fear.1624]

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@"Crab Fear.1624" said:Alot of people say if it was like GW1...maybe if there were different game modes, PVP would change, idk. But trust me the cheeze, spams, conditions, and pretty much the equality of professions was no better in GW1.

There is the circle that we dance around in addition to the nodes in conquest...the circle of the OP meta kitten...pick one of the OP meta kitten kits and play it (competently) to move up or get farmed, but stop complaining.

Comparing GW2 to...the mastery of GW1? .....

There was no must have profession, no Iwin team composition and every profession had competitive builds

(multiple ones)

for high level pvp...which looking at AT class representation in GW2, soloq typical class distribution...I'd say it's clearly not the case

-Hero ascent, GvG, Capture to the flag...compared to Conquest?...no...pls no, let's no go there

H9, g8, exTOP GvG 50.....

I ask you please do not insult my memory by comparing this pile of garbage to the greatness of GW1

Thank You

Lmao the greatness of GW1, delusional. Lets see.... do you remember pvxwiki? It has all the "meta" must haves. You can go look, and anyone else and see that there were specific meta team comps and individual builds. Don't insult my memory by pretending I have none lol...

I WILL AVENGE YOU!

[Abazigal.3679]

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:Alot of people say if it was like GW1...maybe if there were different game modes, PVP would change, idk. But trust me the cheeze, spams, conditions, and pretty much the equality of professions was no better in GW1.

There is the circle that we dance around in addition to the nodes in conquest...the circle of the OP meta kitten...pick one of the OP meta kitten kits and play it (competently) to move up or get farmed, but stop complaining.

Comparing GW2 to...the mastery of GW1? .....

There was no must have profession, no Iwin team composition and every profession had competitive builds

(multiple ones)

for high level pvp...which looking at AT class representation in GW2, soloq typical class distribution...I'd say it's clearly not the case

-Hero ascent, GvG, Capture to the flag...compared to Conquest?...no...pls no, let's no go there

H9, g8, exTOP GvG 50.....

I ask you please do not insult my memory by comparing this pile of garbage to the greatness of GW1

Thank You

Lmao the greatness of GW1, delusional. Lets see.... do you remember pvxwiki? It has all the "meta" must haves. You can go look, and anyone else and see that there were specific meta team comps and individual builds. Don't insult my memory by pretending I have none lol...

I WILL AVENGE YOU!

We cannot compare combat systems from both games, however the difference is still that " easy builds " were also " easily counterable ". Iway/sway was heavily dependent on spirits, vimway was about balling. Bspike had no defense. Rspike was predictable and quite slow damage. EoEbomb was about spirits and had very low defense too. Moreover, all these builds had explicit counters. If i'm hero battles, you had monk + double D/A which had exactly 0 damage, and it was all about teleporting around. Assassin + 3 rangers which had big damage but no healing. All of these were considered " OP " on their time, but could be explicitely countered.

Now, if we consider double spellbreaker, double scourge and firebrand, there is no explicit setup that will easily beat that, except the mirror setup, and that's not a counter.

[Dreams.3128]

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:Alot of people say if it was like GW1...maybe if there were different game modes, PVP would change, idk. But trust me the cheeze, spams, conditions, and pretty much the equality of professions was no better in GW1.

There is the circle that we dance around in addition to the nodes in conquest...the circle of the OP meta kitten...pick one of the OP meta kitten kits and play it (competently) to move up or get farmed, but stop complaining.

Comparing GW2 to...the mastery of GW1? .....

There was no must have profession, no Iwin team composition and every profession had competitive builds

(multiple ones)

for high level pvp...which looking at AT class representation in GW2, soloq typical class distribution...I'd say it's clearly not the case

-Hero ascent, GvG, Capture to the flag...compared to Conquest?...no...pls no, let's no go there

H9, g8, exTOP GvG 50.....

I ask you please do not insult my memory by comparing this pile of garbage to the greatness of GW1

Thank You

I'm going to because you wanna know why?

It followed a WoW engine and basically hopped on the WoW train with how combat function

GW2 combat has to function differently because they don't use the same systems anymore. You want to stick in place, do nothing but walk around, and never have your l33t jump dodges. I sure as hell don't want to simply run around back and forth, clicking on buttons at timed intervals. I might as well go play a jrpg for that pace.

[ReaverKane.7598]

@zombyturtle.5980 said:

@Genesis.5169 said:Vanilla Wars 2 was more bursty then now. I have no idea what past your trying to look back on, power shatter mesmers, ghost thieves, Hammer warriors knock down into 9b etc etc.

This past you speak of never existed. The only difference between Vanilla Wars 2 And Guild Wars 2 PoF is that people are actually playing condition builds while not being a Necro. Ele's suck in sPvP from my perspective that could be another reason why your having such a bad time.

Your post made me reconsider my problems. I guess my main issue is that there is no clear tell for when these conditions and damage are about to be applied to you. They just appear on you with often no animation from the enemy to signal their appearance. They are applied so fast too and from so many different sources that its almost impossible to avoid them. I honestly cant learn how to get better when I cant see where the damage is coming from. Part of this problem is likely visual effect overload.

With old vanilla builds there weere usually animations that would signal an enemy was about to hit you. For hammer warrior, you could clearly see the warrior jump at you with a hammer, and then use a gs attack to deal dmg. This means you can learn next time to avoid the hammer blow or stunbreak before the gs attack. Same with shatter mes, whos illusions would run towards you.

I agree with you though that burst damage hasnt changed much.

Anyways the point of my OP was not to discuss if burst has gotten worse or not but to simply give feedback that returning as a new player in this meta has been the worst experience for me so far in gw2.

No tells? LOLI'm going to explain the problem of why you got stomped... Going to do it in big bold words in case your eyesight is poor:

YOU HAVEN'T PVPED IN ABOUT 2 YEARS!!

[Arheundel.6451]

@Abazigal.3679 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:Alot of people say if it was like GW1...maybe if there were different game modes, PVP would change, idk. But trust me the cheeze, spams, conditions, and pretty much the equality of professions was no better in GW1.

There is the circle that we dance around in addition to the nodes in conquest...the circle of the OP meta kitten...pick one of the OP meta kitten kits and play it (competently) to move up or get farmed, but stop complaining.

Comparing GW2 to...the mastery of GW1? .....

There was no must have profession, no Iwin team composition and every profession had competitive builds

(multiple ones)

for high level pvp...which looking at AT class representation in GW2, soloq typical class distribution...I'd say it's clearly not the case

-Hero ascent, GvG, Capture to the flag...compared to Conquest?...no...pls no, let's no go there

H9, g8, exTOP GvG 50.....

I ask you please do not insult my memory by comparing this pile of garbage to the greatness of GW1

Thank You

Lmao the greatness of GW1, delusional. Lets see.... do you remember pvxwiki? It has all the "meta" must haves. You can go look, and anyone else and see that there were specific meta team comps and individual builds. Don't insult my memory by pretending I have none lol...

I WILL AVENGE YOU!

We cannot compare combat systems from both games, however the difference is still that " easy builds " were also " easily counterable ". Iway/sway was heavily dependent on spirits, vimway was about balling. Bspike had no defense. Rspike was predictable and quite slow damage. EoEbomb was about spirits and had very low defense too. Moreover, all these builds had explicit counters. If i'm hero battles, you had monk + double D/A which had exactly 0 damage, and it was all about teleporting around. Assassin + 3 rangers which had big damage but no healing. All of these were considered " OP " on their time, but could be explicitely countered.

Now, if we consider double spellbreaker, double scourge and firebrand, there is no explicit setup that will easily beat that, except the mirror setup, and that's not a counter.

I am glad to see like minded people on this forum.It's not the first time that people compare GW2 to GW1 in terms of OP specs; yes GW1 had OP specs...but none of them was one man army and no team set would automatically give you free wins

[Arheundel.6451]

@Lilyanna.9361 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:Alot of people say if it was like GW1...maybe if there were different game modes, PVP would change, idk. But trust me the cheeze, spams, conditions, and pretty much the equality of professions was no better in GW1.

There is the circle that we dance around in addition to the nodes in conquest...the circle of the OP meta kitten...pick one of the OP meta kitten kits and play it (competently) to move up or get farmed, but stop complaining.

Comparing GW2 to...the mastery of GW1? .....

There was no must have profession, no Iwin team composition and every profession had competitive builds

(multiple ones)

for high level pvp...which looking at AT class representation in GW2, soloq typical class distribution...I'd say it's clearly not the case

-Hero ascent, GvG, Capture to the flag...compared to Conquest?...no...pls no, let's no go there

H9, g8, exTOP GvG 50.....

I ask you please do not insult my memory by comparing this pile of garbage to the greatness of GW1

Thank You

I'm going to because you wanna know why?

It followed a WoW engine and basically hopped on the WoW train with how combat function

GW2 combat has to function differently because they don't use the same systems anymore. You want to stick in place, do nothing but walk around, and never have your l33t jump dodges. I sure as hell don't want to simply run around back and forth, clicking on buttons at timed intervals. I might as well go play a jrpg for that pace.

The current game modes don't seem to take advantage of this engine....the gameplay is way more fixed than GW1 ever was...so I personally don't see that much benefit of this system over the previous one, I would surely go back if they would start to support GW1 again.....there is absolutely nothing holding me here, give me an option and you won't see me ever again here