Season starts 16th so...when balance patch?

[Falan.1839]

@Guizao.4167 said:

@Falan.1839 said:

@Guizao.4167 said:

@Falan.1839 said:You are making it really hard to actually argue against the people who say PvP is dead in this game and isn't worth to be bothered with anymore.

Now you see it - well I foresaw this situation in the very moment they revamped the trait system.

Which was like 3 years ago. Why on earth are you still here then?

Because I play other parts of the game? Silly question.

Still doesn't explain why you're on the PvP forum. Would be like me trolling the raid forum, since I don't raid.

[Guizao.4167]

@Falan.1839 said:

@Guizao.4167 said:

@Falan.1839 said:

@Guizao.4167 said:

@Falan.1839 said:You are making it really hard to actually argue against the people who say PvP is dead in this game and isn't worth to be bothered with anymore.

Now you see it - well I foresaw this situation in the very moment they revamped the trait system.

Which was like 3 years ago. Why on earth are you still here then?

Because I play other parts of the game? Silly question.

Still doesn't explain why you're on the PvP forum. Would be like me trolling the raid forum, since I don't raid.

Am I trolling? It does explain many things. I like this game and want it to succeed so I come to the forums and give as much feedback I can. Why are you bothered?

[orenwolf.1953]

I wonder if most of the posters here realize the reason they get so few updates from so few developers is because the responses are so toxic and insulting.

I mean, would you want to respond when comments on why changes happen (or don't happen) are met with "what work do they even do?" or "You don't care about your customers" or similar statements?

Any of you that watched the dev chats on balance changes should be well aware of the layers and layers of testing that need to happen for every single skill, combination, and gamemode in order to minimize the chance of unintended consequences. Skill fact changes need translations, possibly new audio, possibly animation changes. all of that needs to be QA'd, and then iterated on. Imagine all the possible combinations of skills that could be used together, now imagine needing to figure all of that out as a small team, because you know as soon as they are released your awesome playerbase is going to try things in crazy combinations until they find a "new best" meta. Especially when your goal is to try and ensure there isn't just one "meta", but several acceptable ways to play each class, and each specialization.

You do all this work, then look to the forums where all you see is toxicity from the playerbase when your changes take time, with literally the sorts of insults and put-downs usually reserved for teenagers in high-school, and you wonder why you get no communication or updates? especially when reading these forums take away from their other tasks?

Ben, and the other Devs who lurk on these posts: Thank you for your dedicated work on our behalf, and for being willing to brave the minority of toxic posters who try to steal all the oxygen here. Thank you for the explanation of why balance patches will happen independently of tournaments. Those of the playerbase who care about providing constructive, detailed reports will be sure to report promptly when the patch drops if there are any issues.

To those of you who would rather insult the makers of this game you supposedly enjoy and push them out of communicating with you? Take some time and reflect on what your toxic attitude and culture robs from these forums, these people, and indeed our community.

Thanks.

[Toron.4856]

@"orenwolf.1953" said:I wonder if most of the posters here realize the reason they get so few updates from so few developers is because the responses are so toxic and insulting.

I mean, would you want to respond when comments on why changes happen (or don't happen) are met with "what work do they even do?" or "You don't care about your customers" or similar statements?

Any of you that watched the dev chats on balance changes should be well aware of the layers and layers of testing that need to happen for every single skill, combination, and gamemode in order to minimize the chance of unintended consequences. Skill fact changes need translations, possibly new audio, possibly animation changes. all of that needs to be QA'd, and then iterated on. Imagine all the possible combinations of skills that could be used together, now imagine needing to figure all of that out as a small team, because you know as soon as they are released your awesome playerbase is going to try things in crazy combinations until they find a "new best" meta. Especially when your goal is to try and ensure there isn't just one "meta", but several acceptable ways to play each class, and each specialization.

You do all this work, then look to the forums where all you see is toxicity from the playerbase when your changes take time, with literally the sorts of insults and put-downs usually reserved for teenagers in high-school, and you wonder why you get no communication or updates? especially when reading these forums take away from their other tasks?

Ben, and the other Devs who lurk on these posts: Thank you for your dedicated work on our behalf, and for being willing to brave the minority of toxic posters who try to steal all the oxygen here. Thank you for the explanation of why balance patches will happen independently of tournaments. Those of the playerbase who care about providing constructive, detailed reports will be sure to report promptly when the patch drops if there are any issues.

To those of you who would rather insult the makers of this game you supposedly enjoy and push them out of communicating with you? Take some time and reflect on what your toxic attitude and culture robs from these forums, these people, and indeed our community.

Thanks.

we been giving feedback for 2 years. been ignored for 2 years. game died. its too late now anyways lol

u cant tell me the balance team doesnt keep PoF specs OP without reason. anet needs more sales. and the only sales argument for pure pvper are OP builds and inappropriate balance ... hence pvpers are mad.

[Nebilim.5127]

@Philkafou.7481 said:

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

@ArthurDent.9538 said:There will most likely be a patch tomorrow, it will just be underwhelming in scope, and out of touch in direction like every patch since PoF has been.

There is no balance patch tomorrow. There is currently a balance patch in the works for mid-season.

So this leads to 2 conclusions.

1. Pvp Devs don't give a kitten about the game being competitive which would explain the status quo, with pvp being marginally pushed as a side activity not 1/3rd of the game as it has always been.
2. The Devs are incompetent and do not realise mid season expansions and balance patches make no sense for competitive play, or a sane business model at least. Your playerbase is alienated... enjoy your come and go casuals from now on.

Third option. Balancing the game has little to no consequences to 95% of the casual playerbase of the game. It isn't worth their effort or time, if what they said about changing numbers is hard. You think the average gw2 player even read the patch notes, much less balance? lol

[Philkafou.7481]

@Nebilim.5127 said:

@Philkafou.7481 said:

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

@ArthurDent.9538 said:There will most likely be a patch tomorrow, it will just be underwhelming in scope, and out of touch in direction like every patch since PoF has been.

There is no balance patch tomorrow. There is currently a balance patch in the works for mid-season.

So this leads to 2 conclusions.

1. Pvp Devs don't give a kitten about the game being competitive which would explain the status quo, with pvp being marginally pushed as a side activity not 1/3rd of the game as it has always been.
2. The Devs are incompetent and do not realise mid season expansions and balance patches make no sense for competitive play, or a sane business model at least. Your playerbase is alienated... enjoy your come and go casuals from now on.

Third option. Balancing the game has little to no consequences to 95% of the casual playerbase of the game. It isn't worth their effort or time, if what they said about changing numbers is hard. You think the average gw2 player even read the patch notes, much less balance? lol

Yeah i mean so far its pretty obvious most balancing is pve driven which in itself was so extensive some people were pushed out of the game. So its pretty obvious your number 3 confirms number 1 that devs dont actually care about pvp balance any more.

[otto.5684]

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

@"Lonely Wayfarer.5189" said:

• What about the mm changes you were working on? when will we get new info and would u change the system mid season? (i bet not so another season with kitten mm?)The new Matchmaker is on ranked already and will be up for this season. We've been posting regular updates about it here:
  https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/21863/new-matchmaker-on-unranked#latest

• do you ever plan on bringing duoq back?The rule for duo queue only for rating 1600+ will continue for now.

• will 2v2 be released b4 2030?

We still have plans for a 2v2 special tournament. We're waiting for the tournament improvements to be finished first. (Swiss, tournament capacity.)

• hows decreasing the off season time an arguement for your competitive team to not be able to release a simple patch? did you only start working on it after the season 9 ended? whats the argument for that?

Decreasing off-season to 2 weeks decreased the windows where the balance team can push out changes unless we decided they could be pushed mid-season. If we delayed the season to wait for the balance patch, it would be a much lengthier off-season than we want.

• why cant you play around with some numbers and do a quick change to holo, scourge, mirage, fb, druid?

This is much easier said than done.

I know that you do not represent the balance team. I just want to point out that there is no date commitment on your part. A week ago heads-up with a date would be okay. Telling the players the day before, without a commitment on Anet's part is not. Also, I assume that the balance team did not wake-up on 1/2/18 and realized they needed to deliver on 1/16/18. This should have been at least 3 month in the work, since most changes since PoF so far were, "playing around with some numbers." I have not seen any significant changes since 9/23/17 that indicates thorough monitoring and testing.

Lastly, I said this before and I will say it again, the balance team is killing the sPvP team. No matter how well you guys are preforming/communicating, if the balance team does not get their act together, sadly, it does not matter.

Again, I cannot emphasis this enough, I have not seen any significant changes since PoF release that indicates thorough monitoring and testing.

[Eddbopkins.2630]

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065...Is it possible to get an ama with the balance team and pvp team? Id like to hear there goals and ideas on the balance changes befor they go live mid season. Id like to know why in such a seamless update system why it takes at least 2-4 months to change and address balance when the community cries day after day for a little amount of balance n chamges. Id like to hear from the people that make the decisions and there out look on the affect they have on the game.

[Guizao.4167]

@"orenwolf.1953" said:I wonder if most of the posters here realize the reason they get so few updates from so few developers is because the responses are so toxic and insulting.

I mean, would you want to respond when comments on why changes happen (or don't happen) are met with "what work do they even do?" or "You don't care about your customers" or similar statements?

Any of you that watched the dev chats on balance changes should be well aware of the layers and layers of testing that need to happen for every single skill, combination, and gamemode in order to minimize the chance of unintended consequences. Skill fact changes need translations, possibly new audio, possibly animation changes. all of that needs to be QA'd, and then iterated on. Imagine all the possible combinations of skills that could be used together, now imagine needing to figure all of that out as a small team, because you know as soon as they are released your awesome playerbase is going to try things in crazy combinations until they find a "new best" meta. Especially when your goal is to try and ensure there isn't just one "meta", but several acceptable ways to play each class, and each specialization.

You do all this work, then look to the forums where all you see is toxicity from the playerbase when your changes take time, with literally the sorts of insults and put-downs usually reserved for teenagers in high-school, and you wonder why you get no communication or updates? especially when reading these forums take away from their other tasks?

Ben, and the other Devs who lurk on these posts: Thank you for your dedicated work on our behalf, and for being willing to brave the minority of toxic posters who try to steal all the oxygen here. Thank you for the explanation of why balance patches will happen independently of tournaments. Those of the playerbase who care about providing constructive, detailed reports will be sure to report promptly when the patch drops if there are any issues.

To those of you who would rather insult the makers of this game you supposedly enjoy and push them out of communicating with you? Take some time and reflect on what your toxic attitude and culture robs from these forums, these people, and indeed our community.

Thanks.

Now tell me why they don't answer the players who, according to this, give proper feedback?

[Lonely Wayfarer.5189]

We still have plans for a 2v2 special tournament. We're waiting for the tournament improvements to be finished first. (Swiss, tournament capacity.)So just plans and no date, and taking a look at how much time you need for things in general i have no hope for a real 2v2 mode anytime soon.

Decreasing off-season to 2 weeks decreased the windows where the balance team can push out changes unless we decided they could be pushed mid-season. If we delayed the season to wait for the balance patch, it would be a much lengthier off-season than we want.Why did it decrease the window the balance team had? cant the team work on changes while the season is active? That was my original question, why do you need off season to be able to work? i guess im missing something here

• why cant you play around with some numbers and do a quick change to holo, scourge, mirage, fb, druid?This is much easier said than done.What exactly is much easier said than done? Coming up with ideas or patching them into the game? i would need less than a day to come up with some basic changes and a whole team wasnt able to do it in the weeks of time they had? you can literally just go through all the classes, take a look at whats the most obvious thing to patch and CHANGE IT. example: holo dodgeroll: reduce the damage of the skill, or reduce the might gain on corona burst, or increase its cd. took me 2mins and youre telling me a professional team cant come up with ANY changes at all?

[Meetshield.1756]

Can we at least hope that you would release a BUG fix for Abrasive Grit? We have about 15 posts on pug forums about it. You made conditions worse on the last balance pass because you broke condition clear. Resolving condition clear before applying balance would be the right move.

[Kako.1930]

@"orenwolf.1953" said:I wonder if most of the posters here realize the reason they get so few updates from so few developers is because the responses are so toxic and insulting.

I mean, would you want to respond when comments on why changes happen (or don't happen) are met with "what work do they even do?" or "You don't care about your customers" or similar statements?

Any of you that watched the dev chats on balance changes should be well aware of the layers and layers of testing that need to happen for every single skill, combination, and gamemode in order to minimize the chance of unintended consequences. Skill fact changes need translations, possibly new audio, possibly animation changes. all of that needs to be QA'd, and then iterated on. Imagine all the possible combinations of skills that could be used together, now imagine needing to figure all of that out as a small team, because you know as soon as they are released your awesome playerbase is going to try things in crazy combinations until they find a "new best" meta. Especially when your goal is to try and ensure there isn't just one "meta", but several acceptable ways to play each class, and each specialization.

You do all this work, then look to the forums where all you see is toxicity from the playerbase when your changes take time, with literally the sorts of insults and put-downs usually reserved for teenagers in high-school, and you wonder why you get no communication or updates? especially when reading these forums take away from their other tasks?

Ben, and the other Devs who lurk on these posts: Thank you for your dedicated work on our behalf, and for being willing to brave the minority of toxic posters who try to steal all the oxygen here. Thank you for the explanation of why balance patches will happen independently of tournaments. Those of the playerbase who care about providing constructive, detailed reports will be sure to report promptly when the patch drops if there are any issues.

To those of you who would rather insult the makers of this game you supposedly enjoy and push them out of communicating with you? Take some time and reflect on what your toxic attitude and culture robs from these forums, these people, and indeed our community.

Thanks.

To be fair, this is a business, not an art project. At my job, I hear way worse on a daily basis but communication is key and I would be fired if I didn't talk to people just because they were unhappy with the company I work for and said mean things to me.

It's not an excuse to not communicate, ignore any input from your customers, and completely half-apple any work you do perform. If they did a good job, the players would be shouting their praises and bringing players from other worse games to this one, but instead people are leaving for other games. I wonder why that is...

[Wichidi.9281]

@Kako.1930 said:

@"orenwolf.1953" said:I wonder if most of the posters here realize the reason they get so few updates from so few developers is because the responses are so toxic and insulting.

I mean, would

you

want to respond when comments on why changes happen (or don't happen) are met with "what work do they even do?" or "You don't care about your customers" or similar statements?

Any of you that watched the dev chats on balance changes should be well aware of the layers and layers of testing that need to happen for every single skill, combination, and gamemode in order to minimize the chance of unintended consequences. Skill fact changes need translations, possibly new audio, possibly animation changes. all of that needs to be QA'd, and then iterated on. Imagine all the possible combinations of skills that could be used together, now imagine needing to figure all of that out as a small team, because you

know

as soon as they are released your awesome playerbase is going to try things in crazy combinations until they find a "new best" meta. Especially when

your

goal is to try and ensure there isn't just one "meta", but several acceptable ways to play each class, and each specialization.

You do all this work, then look to the forums where all you see is toxicity from the playerbase when your changes take time, with literally the sorts of insults and put-downs usually reserved for teenagers in high-school, and you wonder why you get no communication or updates?

especially

when reading these forums take away from their other tasks?

Ben, and the other Devs who lurk on these posts: Thank you for your dedicated work on our behalf, and for being willing to brave the minority of toxic posters who try to steal all the oxygen here. Thank you for the explanation of why balance patches will happen independently of tournaments. Those of the playerbase who care about providing constructive, detailed reports will be sure to report promptly when the patch drops if there are any issues.

To those of you who would rather insult the makers of this game you supposedly

enjoy

and push them out of communicating with you? Take some time and reflect on what your toxic attitude and culture robs from these forums, these people, and indeed our community.

Thanks.

To be fair, this is a business, not an art project. At my job, I hear way worse on a daily basis but communication is key and I would be fired if I didn't talk to people just because they were unhappy with the company I work for and said mean things to me.

It's not an excuse to not communicate, ignore any input from your customers, and completely half-apple any work you do perform. If they did a good job, the players would be shouting their praises and bringing players from other worse games to this one, but instead people are leaving for other games. I wonder why that is...

might be related to pvp being a joke. might be wrong tho ^

[orenwolf.1953]

@skeletonman.5348 said:

if anet was not trying to drain the money out of our pockets with a bad balance and op specs and actually CARE about if pvpers ENJOY the game or not, the pvp forum would be WAY less toxic. but anet doesnt give a kitten as u can see.... all they do is destroying my favourite game mode in this game. gw2 has one of the best combat system ive ever play which is why its so sad they keep making it worse n worse.

See, there's part of the problem. If you honestly believe that the goal of any of the developers who, I'm sure, work crazy hours and (as we've heard many times over) use their own free time to work on QOL fixes and other side projects for this community (not to mention reddit and wiki posts, etc) - if you sincerely believe that those same developers don't care about the long-term health of a game that, I guarantee, they have put more time, effort, and thought into than any player has - well, then I genuinely think you may want to re-evaluate your own priorities and biases.

Especially if you are one of those that think your opinions give you the right to insult, belittle or otherwise bully the developers to get what you want.

[Lonely Wayfarer.5189]

@orenwolf.1953 i dont want to start a big discussion with you so just 2 things:1.

Any of you that watched the dev chats on balance changes should be well aware of the layers and layers of testing that need to happen for every single skill, combination, and gamemode in order to minimize the chance of unintended consequencesyou think theyre working on this stuff? what about the sb full counter bug that has been in the game since pof release and still isnt fixed? or what about the fact that the friendlist broke after an update that has nothing to do with it? and their fix still didnt fix it LUL

2.maybe that anet shat on pvp for years in the first place is the reason players get more toxic? do you srsly try to defend anets work?

[Rym.1469]

I don't think that at this point two weeks earlier or later is such a big issue for those people who still play pvp.

[Toron.4856]

@orenwolf.1953 said:

@"skeletonman.5348" said:

if anet was not trying to drain the money out of our pockets with a bad balance and op specs and actually CARE about if pvpers ENJOY the game or not, the pvp forum would be WAY less toxic. but anet doesnt give a kitten as u can see.... all they do is destroying my favourite game mode in this game. gw2 has one of the best combat system ive ever play which is why its so sad they keep making it worse n worse.

See, there's part of the problem. If you honestly believe that the goal of any of the developers who, I'm sure, work crazy hours and (as we've heard many times over) use their own free time to work on QOL fixes and other side projects for this community (not to mention reddit and wiki posts, etc) - if you sincerely believe that those same developers don't care about the long-term health of a game that, I guarantee, they have put more time, effort, and thought into than any player has - well, then I genuinely think you may want to re-evaluate your own priorities and biases.

Especially if you are one of those that think your opinions give you the right to insult, belittle or otherwise bully the developers to get what you want.

yh praise the pve and pvp team. honestly. great job.

but the balance team... a team whos only goal is to balance stuff around the game that doesnt balance stuff but makes it worse? literally any player here in this thread could come up with a better balance patch than the last one. in a matter of a min.

why would u make a class that is alrdy overperforming even stronger.

you are probably a casual but anyone who is a "pvper" in gw2 knows how bad the balance team work is. just because devs that spend time in their free time coding stuff like new raids, fractal updates or new storylines doesnt mean the balance team is doing that as well.

all the critics here goes towards the balance team, not the pvp or fractal team...

i feel bad for ben because he has to deal with all this here. But COMPLETLY ignoring the community (for months) when it comes to balance has consequences -> ppl getting mad, upset and toxic. if u ignore the players opinions and wishes and just fool around with them... thats what u get.

[BikeIsGone.8675]

@"Ben Phongluangtham.1065"since you said you guys are trying to push for more frequent balance releases, can you give any insight on how these schedules look like now?So far we had quarterly updates (every 3 months / 4 updates a year), which in all fairness, is too long imo.

Have you also thought about maybe reducing Season duration in favor of a "better" release schedule?Like maybe only have a season last for 6 weeks (instead of 8) and 2 weeks off-season....which would mean, we could have new balance releases every 2 months.

[Namless.4028]

My Main Problem atm is that the Balance team isnt communicating at all with the community. It would be great if they would at least say what they want to do (like they did the last time. Just make it every time) and Maybe answer to some posts on the forum. When there are Dozent of posts regarding the Balance of scourge it would be nice if the balance team would comment on it.

[Theros.1390]

@orenwolf.1953 said:I wonder if most of the posters here realize the reason they get so few updates from so few developers is because the responses are so toxic and insulting.

This.

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

@ArthurDent.9538 said:There will most likely be a patch tomorrow, it will just be underwhelming in scope, and out of touch in direction like every patch since PoF has been.

There is no balance patch tomorrow. There is currently a balance patch in the works for mid-season.

So we shouldn’t take the word of Anet Devs at face value? “Anet_Irenio: To that end the Skills and Balance squad has been putting in solid work to prepare a small bonus balance patch that shouldn't interfere with the regular cadence.”

Most recent balance patches since changing to the quarterly updates have been on the second half of the first month of the quarter, and a Dev Stated we wouldn’t get a delayed balance patch as but we are seeing a delay of 4 weeks if what you say is true at the midway point of the season is the balance patch release.

I know this isn’t your fault or the Pvp teams fault but, the lack of communication and misinformation being passed out by certain Devs is very disheartening at the very least, if there were to be delays to balance patch cadence then that should have been put out a bit in advance, especially when we were told the exact opposite was to happen.

[Crab Fear.1624]

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

@ArthurDent.9538 said:There will most likely be a patch tomorrow, it will just be underwhelming in scope, and out of touch in direction like every patch since PoF has been.

There is no balance patch tomorrow. There is currently a balance patch in the works for mid-season.

• Whether or not the new is good, I personally greatly appreciate receiving this kind of information and all other tidbits we get. Thanks for being so interactive with us.

[Ziggityzog.7389]

@PaRaPhReNiA.8763 said:

@Ziggityzog.7389 said:Hahahahahahahaha I'll be enjoying my time in unranked again this season. Not worth playing in the cesspool of ranked if we aren't getting a balance patch or real maps / game modes to play in ranked.

U get flamed in ranked anyway. Go stronghold 11111 some skritts

Wow it's creepy your stalking me now. Lol child please go fight a circle that can't fight back since you can't fight anything else haha ? I'll fight my player vs player 2v1 and 3v1 fights while still defending or on offense.

Better run bucko mama has your pizza rolls ready.

[Svarty.8019]

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

• why cant you play around with some numbers and do a quick change to holo, scourge, mirage, fb, druid?

This is much easier said than done.

It's infuriating for everybody when the tools aren't clever enough :(

[Vyrulisse.1246]

At least we can count on frequent gem store updates.