Flag DPS-Meter user in the game

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

@"altermaven.7385" said:There's a way to check your damage consistency that is built in game. While I don't mind the fact people want to benchmark their stuff. I do mind having it as a de-facto criteria for getting into high-tier stuff. Some games consider having the availability of everyone's DPS at their fingertips a bannable offense. Being kicked because you're sub-optimal, because you aren't measuring or sharing your damage output, because you're having a bad DPS day? Having meters as an 'available' option not part of the API is technically considered boundary-crossing, but regardless invites a large wave of unwanted toxicity.

And as for this "check" in the game? It's called a combat log. Sure it's not robust, but it's what you got. It may not measure your total output per second, but you can make rudimentary benches out of it.

To iterate: I'm not against measuring DPS, or having a means to measure it. I am, however, against having my details read by someone other than me. I personally do not use DPS meters, because by rights it is across that line that seperates "legit" from "suspicious".

They aren’t your details, all combat data is public data in gw2, and Toxicity hasn’t risen due to combat meters, since Toxicity was even more prevalent in the form of completely arbitrary reasons like AP or kick or full zerk or kick, and no Ranger and Necro or kick.

And they aren’t boundary crossing since the people that set the boundaries are Anet and they said as long as Combat Meters meet their compliance standards they are ok.

[Rauderi.8706]

Important question just to keep me up to date on this (since it seems to bounce around from month to month and should be noted in their TOS):Where are DPS meters getting other players' data from? Is there some API thing that details their combat data? Or is the meter reading more data than it's allowed? Because last I was aware, each person using a meter had to submit their data for sharing, so it shouldn't be possible to get a non-participant's data (unless 4 / 5 of them are using it and the final data is inferred).

[Feanor.2358]

@"Dayra.7405" said:I can write that, but still they can secretly spying me. They can even take over majority and kick me.

Why would I join your party in the first place? I obviously care about efficiency, and a "no dps meter" LFG would indicate that you don't. At least not nearly on the same level. So I really find that unlikely.

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

@Rauderi.8706 said:Important question just to keep me up to date on this (since it seems to bounce around from month to month and should be noted in their TOS):Where are DPS meters getting other players' data from? Is there some API thing that details their combat data? Or is the meter reading more data than it's allowed? Because last I was aware, each person using a meter had to submit their data for sharing, so it shouldn't be possible to get a non-participant's data (unless 4 / 5 of them are using it and the final data is inferred).

That was only one combat meter and it wasn’t in compliance within Anets Specifications due to other “features” that the Creator refused to remove and Anet Banned the Creator and the players that continued to use it.

Here is Anets statement on the collection of Combat Data.

“ChrisClearySkrittCoin-Miner• 1yWe have no problems with players using a 3rd party tool whose scope is only to collect and visualize combat data gathered directly from the game client. Anything beyond that scope is still considered a violation of the User Agreement.”

[Imperadordf.2687]

Combat data is not private.

[Dayra.7405]

@Imperadordf.2687 said:Combat data is not private.

Currently not, true, questionable if that is a good idea, but I want to be noticed when someone analyses them!

[Theros.1390]

Why do you even care if the job is done in term of DPS ?

@Dayra.7405 said:This person is recording my behavior and violating my privacy.

Combat datas come from Arenanet servers, so nobody is violating your privacy by collecting this information.

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

@Dayra.7405 said:

@Imperadordf.2687 said:Combat data is not private.

Currently not, true, questionable if that is a good idea, but I want to be noticed when someone analyses them!

As per both EU and US Privacy laws their definitions of personal data don’t cover or infer to anything related to combat data, again reading the laws regarding this tells you that.

Combat data is public data

[Laila Lightness.8742]

@Imperadordf.2687 said:Combat data is not private.

Your own is not but.you cant see other peoples dps without meter

[DarthFurby.3970]

@Dayra.7405 said:

@Imperadordf.2687 said:Combat data is not private.

Currently not, true, questionable if that is a good idea, but I want to be noticed when someone analyses them!

But it consistently seems to be the case, you just can't accept it. What is it about your damage numbers that you are so adamant about people not seeing? Are you worried that somehow the rotation of your skills will cause your damage to reflect your bank account and other personal identifying information? Rest assured that won't happen. Your damage when your in a party is impacting everyone there, so they all should be allowed to view your performance as it impacts them as well.

If you are worried you don't perform up to par then get better, if your sure your doing fine then what difference does any of this make? No one is sitting around documenting your specific information and scrutinizing you behind your back.

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

@Laila Lightness.8742 said:

@Imperadordf.2687 said:Combat data is not private.

Your own is not but.you cant see other peoples dps without meter

Actually you can see it if you know what to look for and to do very simple maths, since the value of NPC health bars are known, players can see percentages of Health bars remaining and if they really wanted to could just watch those things and get a extremely good grasp of someone’s dps, you can also see exactly what skills players use since all skills have animations.

Combat Meters just compile everything into a easier to read visual aid, nothing more nothing less.

Better not use any skills then a player will know what you used without your consent, oh no my private data! /s

[Laila Lightness.8742]

@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

@Laila Lightness.8742 said:

@Imperadordf.2687 said:Combat data is not private.

Your own is not but.you cant see other peoples dps without meter

Actually you can see it if you know what to look for and to do very simple maths, since the value of NPC health bars are known, players can see percentages of Health bars remaining and if they really wanted to could just watch those things and get a extremely good grasp of someone’s dps, you can also see exactly what skills players use since all skills have animations.

Combat Meters just compile everything into a easier to read visual aid, nothing more nothing less.

Better not use any skills then a player will know what you used without your consent! /s

I use the meter i dont point out others dps since thats bullying.

[Dayra.7405]

@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:Combat Meters just compile everything into a easier to read visual aid, nothing more nothing less.

You can see actions of people on the street, still it's a totally different thing to record them and especially to evaluate them to generate profiles of people.

[ReaverKane.7598]

@"Dayra.7405" said:I am in EU and the server I am playing on is in EU as well and EU just got a new privacy law that companies cannot overrule at will. So I am very much in doubt that I accepted such rules and even if I did that this is valid.

Its still not your or private data.The data is generated by Arena Net's software and is contained within Arena Net's servers and services, it's their data and they can do what they want with it.

Lets turn this around and Flag people that don't use DPS meters? I really would prefer not to be half way through a Fractal or a Raid to realize that this random guy is doing 1k DPS on a "DPS build" and even the minstrel's Chrono is out-DPSing him.It would be way more convenient if these people had "Slacker" stamped in their foreheads so that i can kick them outright from my groups clearly marked "no slackers" on LFG.If that happens, i don't mind having "uses DPS meter" stamped on my character's forehead either. That would really smooth out the LFG system... Pretty sure OP would be getting the short end of the stick though, but honestly, who cares?

[sigur.9453]

@Dayra.7405 said:

@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:Combat Meters just compile everything into a easier to read visual aid, nothing more nothing less.

You can see actions of people on the street, still you are not allowed to record them and especially you are not allowed to evaluate them.

i AM actuall allowed to evalute them.And filming in indeed a violation, (when the face is visible and she/he is the center of the picture), since it falls under personal rights.

[Imperadordf.2687]

@Laila Lightness.8742 said:

@Imperadordf.2687 said:Combat data is not private.

Your own is not but.you cant see other peoples dps without meter

It's that way to avoid visual noise. Otherwise it's been stated many times that anything not-related to personal data is not private.

[Sonderm.4639]

@Dayra.7405 said:

@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:Combat Meters just compile everything into a easier to read visual aid, nothing more nothing less.

You can see actions of people on the street, still it's a totally different thing to record them and especially to evaluate them to generate profiles of people.

Well, recording people on the street is not illegal is it? And who is creating profiles? You do realize that we don't even know who you really are, we just have a UserID.What you make out to be privacy debate for whatever reason in reality is just that you don't want your performance to be judged in a public setting. And my answer to that would be, don't perform in a public setting if you are afraid of being judged.

[Dayra.7405]

@"ReaverKane.7598" said:The data is generated by Arena Net's software and is contained within Arena Net's servers and services, it's their data and they can do what they want with it.

The "can do what they want with it" is fortunately not true.Fortunately it is illegal to generate a profile of my behavior in the game (as a good test how I behave in reality) and relate it to my personal account data an sell or use it like Facebook did. Even the processing to generate profiles is now illegal in general in EU.

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

@Dayra.7405 said:

@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:Combat Meters just compile everything into a easier to read visual aid, nothing more nothing less.

You can see actions of people on the street, still it's a totally different thing to record them and especially to evaluate them to generate profiles of people.

Again read the GDPR and you will find that combat data in an online game is not covered and does not fit the definition of personal/private data, since in no way shape or form can that data be used to identify your natural person/identity, a very simple understanding and reading of that law which isn’t even in effect yet would explain this.

And your analogy only covers Video and Audio surveillance which even then doesn’t break the law in the majority of cases.....

[Ayakaru.6583]

I like how we've come from toxic elitists, to toxic DSP meter users, all the way around to toxic anti-meter-users.Were will this journey take us next, there may be no end to this toxic wild ride

@OP;You do realize this will have the adverse affect.If you can see who uses a DSP meter, it means you can also see who does not.As a result, fractals, raids and other end game content can now kick you for not having a meter.I can already see the LFG"DSP meter | druid | BS | 200+LI"

[maddoctor.2738]

They can't add something to the game that is a result of someone using an external tool....

[Ashen.2907]

@Dayra.7405 said:No I said that these people violate my privacy.And that flagging them is shown to be technical feasible by ANet.

DPS is not private or personal data and so your privacy cannot be violated by a dps meter.

[AliamRationem.5172]

@Dayra.7405 said:I hate my DPS being measured by others as much as reviving DPS-fixated people. I would like to exclude them from joining my parties as I like to stay away from their parties.With the hacker-ban wave ANet has shown that it can easily recognize such users of third-party software.

I propose that DPS-Meter user are flagged as such easy visible in game, and that LFG-tool allows you to set a flag that keeps such people out from joining your party.

Mainly I want a flag like on the google glasses: This person is recording my behavior and violating my privacy.

I don't appreciate your suggestion to violate my privacy. I use a DPS meter, but that's my business. Yet you want to flag me and exclude me? That is bullying, my friend! You leave me alone you big bully!

[ReaverKane.7598]

@Dayra.7405 said:

@"ReaverKane.7598" said:The data is generated by Arena Net's software and is contained within Arena Net's servers and services, it's

their

data and they can do what they want with it.

The "can do what they want with it" is fortunately not true.Fortunately it is illegal to generate a profile of my behavior in the game (as a good test how I behave in reality) and relate it to my personal account data an sell or use it like Facebook did. Even the processing to generate profiles is now illegal in general in EU.

@BlaqueFyre.5678 already answered in good detail. The law isn't being enforced yet, and if know anything about EU laws and regulations, which i do, it will be a while before some countries transpose the regulation as national laws, and then there's the matter of actually enforcing it, which is on a whole different level.

@maddoctor.2738 said:They can't add something to the game that is a result of someone using an external tool....Theoretically they can. They can track third party software use, that's how they banned the hackers, if they can do that, they can flag you in-game for doing so.If they should, ethically and legally, that's a different ballgame.@Dayra.7405 talks a lot about privacy and profiling, but kinda forgets that between what the DPS meter does, what Arena Net does, and what he wants Arena Net to do, the only one that constitutes profiling and privacy breach is his suggestion.

[maddoctor.2738]

@AliamRationem.5172 said:I don't appreciate your suggestion to violate my privacy. I use a DPS meter, but that's my business. Yet you want to flag me and exclude me? That is bullying, my friend! You leave me alone you big bully!

The funniest part is that they complain about the invasion of their privacy then propose invading the privacy of others.