Flag DPS-Meter user in the game

[IndigoSundown.5419]

@Cyberman Mastermind.6012 said:I thought the basic setup of GW2 was intended to make that a moot point (no trinity, pre-set skills). The (common?) use of DPS-Meters means it's not as trivial to make a functioning character as ANet claimed (which was AFAIK the whole reason for not allowing us to customize our skills).

DPS meters reveal differences in skill, and build. Most of GW2 PvE does not require the same skills as those desired in harder, instanced PvE content. Thus, most builds --and performance -- are functional in most of PvE. Functional and best are not the same thing.

What would you have ANet do? Should they trivialize the content so that anyone can complete it with any build, and little to no skill? Should the build and character skill systems be so standardized that there is little room for differences in performance due to skill?

[Henry.5713]

I'd like to be able to exclude and flag anyone who does not reach a high level of DPS, boons or healing done by default! Oh, wait just a second...

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@"IndigoSundown.5419" said:

I've read a lot of threads about meters. I've yet to see any arguments, on either side, that were not in the very first of those threads. It isn't "ignoring" if you've seen, thought about, and dismissed the point before.

Since this threads appear all the time, it is clearly the problem.No that only means that people don't agree with the policy and aren't willing to accept "yes, DPS meters are in the game" as an answer.

Actually they are not. They are 3rd party toys with no official support from Anet.And they are in the game as it is played, with explicit permission from ANet. Overclocking also receives no official support, along with dual monitors.

I am not against dps meters, I am against their current implementation.The difference is moot: the current implementation is how ANet has

chosen

to handle DPS meters. If you want to get them to change their mind, bring something new to the discussion.

One day you gonna learn the difference and stop generalizing people.I'm clear that you keep rephrasing the same point, about the current implementation, or don't you consider their current policy to be part of the current implementation?

The fact that the discussion keeps popping up doesn't mean that there's an issue, as people also keep bringing up LS1, new races, and new professions, too. There's no "problem" with them either: these are all examples of business decisions made by ANet with which some people don't agree. Sometimes the disagreement is philosophical, sometimes it's because people consider only benefits, but not costs (or short term costs, but not ongoing maintenance). Sometimes it's about misunderstanding the scope of benefit.

Disagreement with business decisions doesn't mean that there's a problem; it just means that there's disagreement.

[Pimpology.6234]

@sigur.9453 said:as long as they don´t mention your dps, is should not bother you, since combat data is public data, as anet stated before.so your reguest will most likely not be considered.

if u need 3rd party tools to read this data ingame , it should be obvious, it's gunna cause problems.

[Pimpology.6234]

@Cynn.1659 said:I don't even need dps meter to check your dmg. So you are other dps in the group, i will just stop doing anything for 15 sec, and if dmg slows down to almost nothing i will know you are slacking.

if there's 4 people other then you in a party and damage slows to nothing then you better drop party cause yer carrying 4 people. but if people see you're constantly just standing around doing nothing, watch out, you might be the one getting kicked :O

[Pimpology.6234]

@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

@"altermaven.7385" said:There's a way to check your damage consistency that is built in game. While I don't mind the fact people want to benchmark their stuff. I

do

mind having it as a de-facto criteria for getting into high-tier stuff. Some games consider having the availability of everyone's DPS at their fingertips a bannable offense. Being kicked because you're sub-optimal, because you aren't measuring or sharing your damage output, because you're having a bad DPS day? Having meters as an 'available' option not part of the API is technically considered boundary-crossing, but regardless invites a large wave of unwanted toxicity.

And as for this "check" in the game? It's called a combat log. Sure it's not robust, but it's what you got. It may not measure your total output per second, but you can make rudimentary benches out of it.

To iterate: I'm not against measuring DPS, or having a means to measure it. I

am

, however, against having my details read by someone other than me. I personally do not use DPS meters, because by rights it is across that line that seperates "legit" from "suspicious".

They aren’t your details, all combat data is public data in gw2, and Toxicity hasn’t risen due to combat meters, since Toxicity was even more prevalent in the form of completely arbitrary reasons like AP or kick or full zerk or kick, and no Ranger and Necro or kick.

And they aren’t boundary crossing since the people that set the boundaries are Anet and they said as long as Combat Meters meet their compliance standards they are ok.

As a gw2 vet from launch, the Toxicity levels have most definetly gone waaay up post raids. To say that's not true is just insane. All one has to do to get a glimpse of what goes on in game is to just read all these hundreds of posts about it.

[Pimpology.6234]

Basically there's 2 kinds of people that come to a forum post titled "Flag DPS-Meter user in the game". #1 people that like to raid and like easy to read DPS out put of meters. #2 people that like to raid, but don't like the rise in toxicity dps meters bring along with the ride. Anyone else really shouldn't be here. :D

[steki.1478]

@"Dayra.7405" said:I hate my DPS being measured by others as much as reviving DPS-fixated people. I would like to exclude them from joining my parties as I like to stay away from their parties.With the hacker-ban wave ANet has shown that it can easily recognize such users of third-party software.

I propose that DPS-Meter user are flagged as such easy visible in game, and that LFG-tool allows you to set a flag that keeps such people out from joining your party.

Mainly I want a flag like on the google glasses: This person is recording my behavior and violating my privacy.

I hate power rangers joining my groups when I specifically stated I need a harrier druid. I'd like to have gear check so I can exclude them from my groups. I want to have more control over who's joining my parties and if the lfg requirements have been met.

People seeing that I use DPS meter are violating MY privacy. I want to use addons without others seeing what they are. I want to flag people with "unable to read lfg" or "want to get carried because swapping my cleric gear offends me". Should be easy to recognise such people because Anet can link them to these forum posts.

[T G.7496]

Being able to see that I'm using a dps meter is an invasion of my privacy.No u.

[Platanos.8107]

FREE BHAGAWAN! BAN ARC!not a serious post.

[zealex.9410]

If its possible can u also flag ppl who die and dont use te waypoint during world bosses?

[Tsakhi.8124]

I'm glad I'm not the only one sees the problem with violating someone's privacy by invading their own. I'm not going to lie: I see DPS meters as a tool; a grossly misused tool, but it is what it is. I feel if people were honest and weren't so sneaky utilizing this tool and basing (sometimes) unfair assumptions on someone else, this wouldn't be such a big problem.

My bottom line: DPS Meter is a tool, it should be treated as such and not yet another way to pass undue judgement, especially if you're kicked from the party you made, specifically. I call into question a person's motivations and integrity when they do something against my knowledge.

(Also, I apologize if this doesn't make a lot of sense, I haven't slept yet and I know what I mean, but the words aren't always forthcoming.)

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

@"BlaqueFyre.5678" said:Its not spying since as stated above an by Anet all Combat Data is Public data and consent is given to the use of dps Meter whenever you join a group...... just saying pretty simple concepts.

It's spying if other the other person feels like it is. The Code of Conduct, how the devs lawyer about it, that is all irrelevant. The laws follow society, not the other way around. Even if there wasn't a law against, say, rooting through other people's trash, it wouldn't change that the average person feels like this is an invasion of their privacy. And, as would be expected, once enough people have their trash ransacked, they'll petition the city council to pass a bill to make it illegal, which city council will in order to make its denizens happy.

These complaints and arguments on the forums, they're just like that scenario: A lot of players have a problem with what other players are doing, and they are petitioning Arenanet to change their minds on the issue and to take action. In light of this, saying "it is currently not against the rules" means very little. We are dealing in what should be, not what is.

[maddoctor.2738]

@zealex.9410 said:If its possible can u also flag ppl who die and dont use te waypoint during world bosses?

That would be hilarious, although you can't do anything about them anyway, they will still do that during world bosses without any consequences.

@"Pimpology.6234" said:Basically there's 2 kinds of people that come to a forum post titled "Flag DPS-Meter user in the game". #1 people that like to raid and like easy to read DPS out put of meters. #2 people that like to raid, but don't like the rise in toxicity dps meters bring along with the ride. Anyone else really shouldn't be here. :D

I don't care about the discussion behind the law aspect, or GDPR, or if it's unethical or anything other completely off-topic subject that people bring in this thread. I care about the actual suggestion that was given in the opening post. Something that many missed and debate about irrelevant things.And about the actual suggestion, it's very simple, If others seeing your dps is an invasion of your privacy, then flagging people for dps-meter use is also an invasion of privacy. Which makes the entire suggestion pointless (and a bit ironic).

[Holykitten.3064]

@Tsakhi.8124 said:My bottom line: DPS Meter is a tool, it should be treated as such and not yet another way to pass undue judgement,

A DPS meter will show who under performs. Is it undue judgement if you can prove a player is attempting to be carried by better players? Some people, especially in higher tier content (T4 and raids), do not want, nor should have to carry other players.

especially if you're kicked from the party you made, specifically. I call into question a person's motivations and integrity when they do something against my knowledge.

You can create a party, but you do not own it. If you advertise a party as a chill/casual run of whatever content, chances are you will most likely get likeminded players that don’t care about efficiency. And that’s ok. You simply advertise, say, “t4 P+F, X,Y,Z profs” you are looking for some sort of optimisation, if you underperform in that, you are attempting to be carried by players that don’t want to carry or didn’t sign up for it.

[Miko.4158]

interesting one. bit of a backtrack.my postcode is not private data, its on google maps!however collect off my phone via gps or take from one of my registrations and its breach.I have not seen anything from anet that says you can collect other people's damage data definitively.I'd prefer it was in game , and then you could say yes or no, rather than 3rd party.

its a tool, and like all tools you get idiots who use therm badly. but I think it should be an option.

[Tsakhi.8124]

@Haleydawn.3764 said:

@Tsakhi.8124 said:My bottom line: DPS Meter is a tool, it should be treated as such and

not

yet another way to pass undue judgement,

A DPS meter will show who under performs. Is it undue judgement if you can prove a player is attempting to be carried by better players? Some people, especially in higher tier content (T4 and raids), do

not

want, nor should have to carry other players.

Ok. Did you read the part where I said it is

sometimes

unfair to make assumptions like that? I never expect to be carried and I don't mind helping someone learn, but I don't like it when people

know

what they're doing and still mess up just to spite others. Tools offer a spectrum of uses, I'm just saying some people use this crap

specifically

out of spite and

those

are the people I take issue with. Perhaps I should have clarified my statement.

especially if you're

kicked from the party you made, specifically

. I call into question a person's motivations and integrity when they do something against my knowledge.

You can create a party, but you do not own it. If you advertise a party as a chill/casual run of whatever content, chances are you will most likely get likeminded players that don’t care about efficiency. And that’s ok. You simply advertise, say, “t4 P+F, X,Y,Z profs” you are looking for some sort of optimisation, if you underperform in that, you are attempting to be carried by players that don’t want to carry or didn’t sign up for it.

In other words, you'd not be pissed off if you created a group and bunch of elite people with a DPS meter decides you aren't cutting it, despite you doing well, and kick you just because they don't like you? Okay, because that's legit and completely honest.

[Laila Lightness.8742]

Kick someone for their dps is a form of bullying allow bearbows too have their chance (joke) pointing out someones performance is not ok

[Silver.2076]

Get used to worse players not being tolerated anymore. The Raids have finally brought content that can't be played by everyone. At the same time, you allow players to optimize themselves and not just continue to play ezpz. GW2 is not just a casual game! Whether this is good, I don't like it either, but supposedly you also need elites in a game.

[Holykitten.3064]

@Tsakhi.8124 said:In other words, you'd not be pissed off if you created a group and bunch of elite people with a DPS meter decides you aren't cutting it, despite you doing well, and kick you just because they don't like you? Okay, because that's legit and completely honest.

I pug everything in game, apart from raids (I don't have the time commitment for it), I can't even remember the last time I was kicked from a T4 fractal group, I had an attempted kick, from casuals that couldn't gain the capacity to light the bonfires in Chaos without dying before the second one was lit, but that's a different story. It may not have even been in T4 I was kicked.That attitude, is not caused by the DPS meter. The meter creates proof to base such actions on. If players would rather be a kitten, rather than say, 'can you (underperformer) do this this and this and maybe you'll do a bit better' and TRY, I don't want to be in that group, so I wouldn't mind the kick.

Edit; Clarity, I do not currently use a DPS tool, I have no intentions to. Sometimes, it's very obvious who isn't pulling their weight though.

[Tsakhi.8124]

@Haleydawn.3764 said:

@"Tsakhi.8124" said:In other words, you'd not be pissed off if you created a group and bunch of elite people with a DPS meter decides you aren't cutting it, despite you doing well, and kick you just because they don't like you? Okay, because that's legit and completely honest.

I pug

everything

in game, apart from raids (I don't have the time commitment for it), I can't even remember the last time I was kicked from a T4 fractal group. It may not have even been in T4 I was kicked.That attitude, is not caused by the DPS meter. The meter creates

proof

to base such actions on. If players would rather be a kitten, rather than say, 'can you (underperformer) do this this and this and maybe you'll do a bit better' and TRY, I don't want to be in that group, so I wouldn't mind the kick.

Fair enough. I also agree it's better to cut your losses early. It's just upsetting to know that people use this "proof" as a justification for poor sportsmanship; as I said, I do not take issue with the tool, I take issue with the people using that tool for less than savory purposes. Also, I probably wasn't clear about this point and feel as though I should clarify it: "I am very much against flagging people with a DPS meter, that is still in someway ostracizing against basic rights. In the same breath, though, I'm also against people that misuse tools and make it an issue for those that are using it for the "right" reasons, like you.

[Feanor.2358]

@Tsakhi.8124 said:

@Haleydawn.3764 said:

@Tsakhi.8124 said:In other words, you'd not be pissed off if you created a group and bunch of elite people with a DPS meter decides you aren't cutting it, despite you doing well, and kick you just because they don't like you? Okay, because that's legit and completely honest.

I pug

everything

in game, apart from raids (I don't have the time commitment for it), I can't even remember the last time I was kicked from a T4 fractal group. It may not have even been in T4 I was kicked.That attitude, is not caused by the DPS meter. The meter creates

proof

to base such actions on. If players would rather be a kitten, rather than say, 'can you (underperformer) do this this and this and maybe you'll do a bit better' and TRY, I don't want to be in that group, so I wouldn't mind the kick.

Fair enough. I also agree it's better to cut your losses early. It's just upsetting to know that people use this "proof" as a justification for poor sportsmanship; as I said, I do not take issue with the tool, I take issue with the people using that tool for less than savory purposes. Also, I probably wasn't clear about this point and feel as though I

should

clarify it: "I am very

much

against flagging people with a DPS meter, that is still in someway ostracizing against basic rights. In the same breath, though, I'm also against people that misuse tools and make it an issue for those that are using it for the "right" reasons, like you.

Would you rather have these people use arbitrary "proof" instead? AP count? Killproof count, lack of specific titles, being the "wrong" class?DPS meters mitigate all this, to an extent. Yes, people will still ask about kps, titles and specific classes and they will still eye you suspiciously if you have very low AP. But they will be MUCH more inclined to give you a chance. Because they have the means to measure your performance objectively. The existence of these tools is very beneficial for the community. Not just because of the personal improvement they aid.

[Tsakhi.8124]

@"Feanor.2358" said:

Fair enough. I also agree it's better to cut your losses early. It's just upsetting to know that people use this "proof" as a justification for poor sportsmanship; as I said, I do not take issue with the tool, I take issue with the people using that tool for less than savory purposes. Also, I probably wasn't clear about this point and feel as though I

should

clarify it: "I am very

much

against flagging people with a DPS meter, that is still in someway ostracizing against basic rights. In the same breath, though, I'm also against people that misuse tools and make it an issue for those that are using it for the "right" reasons, like you.

Would you rather have these people use arbitrary "proof" instead? AP count? Killproof count, lack of specific titles, being the "wrong" class?DPS meters mitigate all this, to an extent. Yes, people will still ask about kps, titles and specific classes and they will still eye you suspiciously if you have very low AP. But they will be

MUCH

more inclined to give you a chance. Because they have the means to measure your performance objectively. The existence of these tools is very beneficial for the community. Not just because of the personal improvement they aid.

No, I would rather people not be stupid and use seniority and/or titles as a benchmark for success. Or anything for that matter. In others words, in case I wasn't clear, I take issue with people that abuse any tool, regardless of intent.

[Laila Lightness.8742]

@Tsakhi.8124 said:

@Haleydawn.3764 said:

@Tsakhi.8124 said:In other words, you'd not be pissed off if you created a group and bunch of elite people with a DPS meter decides you aren't cutting it, despite you doing well, and kick you just because they don't like you? Okay, because that's legit and completely honest.

I pug

everything

in game, apart from raids (I don't have the time commitment for it), I can't even remember the last time I was kicked from a T4 fractal group. It may not have even been in T4 I was kicked.That attitude, is not caused by the DPS meter. The meter creates

proof

to base such actions on. If players would rather be a kitten, rather than say, 'can you (underperformer) do this this and this and maybe you'll do a bit better' and TRY, I don't want to be in that group, so I wouldn't mind the kick.

Fair enough. I also agree it's better to cut your losses early. It's just upsetting to know that people use this "proof" as a justification for poor sportsmanship; as I said, I do not take issue with the tool, I take issue with the people using that tool for less than savory purposes. Also, I probably wasn't clear about this point and feel as though I

should

clarify it: "I am very

much

against flagging people with a DPS meter, that is still in someway ostracizing against basic rights. In the same breath, though, I'm also against people that misuse tools and make it an issue for those that are using it for the "right" reasons, like you.

Proof low dps is not proof if person is underperforming its the responsebility of rest of group to help ore carry person through

[vandrefalk.6823]

I think a DPS meter has good value; however the extension that I just discovered called DPS Mechanics or something which will highlight if players fail certain raid mechanics etc and provide you with options to setup auto-kicking, etc. THAT I have a problem with.

http://martionlabs.com/arcdps-mechanics-log-plugin/

The setup instructions of the DPS Mechanics begins with 'Don't be a dick' and then the whole tool is basically made so you can be a dick... I know the developer suggests it is meant to be a tool to teach players when they fail a mechanic; but this sort of tool goes so much further than a simple DPS meter in breeding a toxic community.