conquest will kill pvp

[Stand The Wall.6987]

PLEASE for the love of god devote resources to developing other game modes for pvp. every season, no matter the amulets or build nerfs, we are fighting against annoying bunker gods, playing with noobs (me) who dont know how to rotate, or any number of tiny details that end up costing the game. this mode more then any other seems to me to be built for organized premade teams who know their shit.just to name a few:team deathmatchcapture the flagescort from point a to b3 control points one at a time capture type dealthere are so many types of modes out there, but one overwhelming reason as to why every game should have at least a few.having only one mode IS BORING AS HELL.most people expect pvp games to have multiple modes, not because it helps prevent burnout, but because its the base standard. the bare minimum.

please for the love of the game...

[witcher.3197]

Last time they tried it was way worse than conquest..

To be fair GW2 combat doesn't really allow for much gamemode variety. The mobility, AoE stealth, downed state mechanic, and ridiculous active defenses could break most modes.

[Daishi.6027]

2v2s would be more popular if players had a way to queue into those rooms and it not be awkward at deciding who gets to play when.

It's a shame because I bet the popularity would take off if it was a button on your matchmaking screen, and unlike conquest it would be a lot more interesting for people to watch. Problem is when you force people to watch and are never allowed a turn to play lol.

Would be even more popular if you slapped a ranked reward tab onto it. Most people want to rank based on their merits and not expecting a 5v5 group to do what you need them to, cutting it down to relying on 1 person would offer a solution to that.

Sure the balance isn't there yet, but much like the survivability nerf patch we're getting closer. Maybe if this was supported A-net would get some data and actually be able to balance around it.

[pah.4931]

@witcher.3197 said:Last time they tried it was way worse than conquest..

To be fair GW2 combat doesn't really allow for much gamemode variety. The mobility, AoE stealth, downed state mechanic, and ridiculous active defenses could break most modes.

If poorly implemented, sure. With clever design, then nah.

[czerwoni.9563]

so overwatch? i don't see the need for more game-modes maybe escort like gw1 but they already have escort with the minions that gives a moba feel to it

[Abelisk.4527]

King of the Hill game modes are popular because they're easy to implement and balance.

[bravan.3876]

I rly would like other gamemodes too but conquest is great because it is more than only kill each other, you need some brain for roles and rotations what is killing pvp are the ppl not willing to learn and improve, ppl throwing on purpose and toxic wannabe pros and a meta brainless since hot.

[Emtiarbi.3281]

I was thinking the other day of a Battle Royale, might be quite fun(and unbalanced) to be honest :')

[omgdracula.6345]

@Emtiarbi.3281 said:I was thinking the other day of a Battle Royale, might be quite fun(and unbalanced) to be honest :')

No thanks, that fad can go die in a fire

[GrubySzymek.1362]

How can you kill something that is already dead?

[allias.1420]

anet just don't have the budget to develop more pvp content, simple as

[Saint Sated.2698]

I think a lot of it comes to class balance and variety. You see Anet now investing resources into making other play styles viable. They initially didn't want the Trinity in this game, but it makes a heck of a lot more sense to derive some balance from that philosophy than to balance around the current PvP Ranked game mode.l.

Stronghold is interesting because it gives players very different options of playing your character. Conquest is quite linear.

[Lucentfir.7430]

@bravan.3876 said:I rly would like other gamemodes too but conquest is great because it is more than only kill each other, you need some brain for roles and rotations what is killing pvp are the ppl not willing to learn and improve, ppl throwing on purpose and toxic wannabe pros and a meta brainless since hot.

No one is saying conquest isn't great but having it be the 'only' gamemode for 5-6 years now, has made SPVP incredibly stale. If people aren't willing to learn and improve in conquest that means they probably don't enjoy conquest, or their experience with trying it out was bad enough to make them not want to stick around. As for all the shady practices you can blame the top end of the playerbase, since everything trickles down, the top end of the competative scene don't care what happens to the gamemode since everything that's happened since S1 to now is more than enough proof of that. The only people I see legit care what happens to Spvp nowadays are WP, Jebro, and Vallun(as far as I've seen as of late in terms of influences), and try to promote or help people out with this gametype. it's about time we expand upon new game types(Stronghold and Deathmatch were handled poorly). When i say expand I mean actually supported with ranked rewards and leaderboards or make the move towards the direction. There's also the discussion why anet can't do what other PVP games do, that's because 'Guild Wars 2' is PVE first and WvW/PVP secondary as far as resource allocation goes.

[witcher.3197]

@Emtiarbi.3281 said:I was thinking the other day of a Battle Royale, might be quite fun(and unbalanced) to be honest :')

There's already Southsun Survival.

[Jalal.6783]

They dont care. everything shows that. accept it or move on

[Abazigal.3679]

What i said on the other topic, you don't need other game modes when you can have build diversity depending on the map. Right now, you can pick 1 scourge 1 mesmer 1 firebrand, it will be working on every single ranked map.

Get rid of the condi spam/sustain builds and matchs will be entertaining

[Durzlla.6295]

@Emtiarbi.3281 said:I was thinking the other day of a Battle Royale, might be quite fun(and unbalanced) to be honest :')

We’ve already got Southsun Survival, have had it for quite time, it’s pretty fun.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

@witcher.3197 said:Last time they tried it was way worse than conquest..

To be fair GW2 combat doesn't really allow for much gamemode variety. The mobility, AoE stealth, downed state mechanic, and ridiculous active defenses could break most modes.

granted, but to fail once and not try again for what ever reason is a crime.im not sure what you mean by gw2 combat not allowing for game mode variety. from 1v1s in pvp to 5v5s and 50v50s in wvw, it all works more or less. one could easily turn your statement around on itself and say conquest is broken. which isnt far from the truth to most people, but thats not what im trying to talk about here.

@Daishi.6027 said:2v2s would be more popular if players had a way to queue into those rooms and it not be awkward at deciding who gets to play when.

It's a shame because I bet the popularity would take off if it was a button on your matchmaking screen, and unlike conquest it would be a lot more interesting for people to watch. Problem is when you force people to watch and are never allowed a turn to play lol.

Would be even more popular if you slapped a ranked reward tab onto it. Most people want to rank based on their merits and not expecting a 5v5 group to do what you need them to, cutting it down to relying on 1 person would offer a solution to that.

Sure the balance isn't there yet, but much like the survivability nerf patch we're getting closer. Maybe if this was supported A-net would get some data and actually be able to balance around it.

the biggest reason its not an option in the pvp panel, is cuz the devs said it would increase q times for un/ranked. probably not far from the truth, but deciding to not add more modes based on the fear that these modes wont draw more people in is as sure a way to fail as having a large active community with many game modes then suddenly deleting all modes in favor of one.

@allias.1420 said:anet just don't have the budget to develop more pvp content, simple as

if that was true then they wouldnt be doing living story and releasing expansions. they are doing those because they are more likely to generate revenue. i am arguing that releasing more game modes would generate more revenue for pvp. i believe this because most every other game i see with multiple modes is doing way better, because people have more options. more options means you can appeal to a larger audience since not everyone is gung ho about conquest 24/7.

@Saint Sated.2698 said:I think a lot of it comes to class balance and variety. You see Anet now investing resources into making other play styles viable. They initially didn't want the Trinity in this game, but it makes a heck of a lot more sense to derive some balance from that philosophy than to balance around the current PvP Ranked game mode.l.

Stronghold is interesting because it gives players very different options of playing your character. Conquest is quite linear.

i dont agree if what youre saying is that because there arent as many class role choices (there are) and class imbalance (a few op builds, but when is this not the case, and besides more modes means more data in determining which route to go when nerfing/buffing. most of the modes i mentioned have a lot in common with conquest, and team fights are a part of conquest as well as wvw and they work just fine) that there cant be more game modes.

[SPESHAL.9106]

If you think balance is bad now, just wait to see how bad it is with 2v2. A lot of current problems are masked by conquest. Some professions can't even duel. Plus, there are some abilities like Moa that make one player totally lose control of their character for a long period and no counter. This would be insta kill in 2v2 scenarios and super OP. Professions that can group stealth and guarantee the first strike would also be OP.

On top of all that, there are certain professions with low sustain, low group utility, and/or low mobility. These would be much more exaggerated in a 2v2 scenario.

People don't realize that Conquest and large group WvW actually masks the severe imbalances between professions in 1v1 and 2v2 scenarios. It would be a disaster unless they made MAJOR revamps.

[Sylosi.6503]

@SPESHAL.9106 said:People don't realize that Conquest and large group WvW actually masks the severe imbalances between professions...

Conquest, yes, large group WvW on the other hand simply highlights how bad balance is when you move it away from conquest, WvW literally has the worst balance I've ever seen over the long term in an alleged PvP game mode.

You have some classes that for the full life of this game have always been considered subpar for WvW blobs/zergs (engies, rangers, thieves, etc), whilst at the same time you have other classes that have always been so broken OP for that they have basically been indispensable and required in vast numbers (guard, necro, etc), even if you take it down to guild level size groups, those subpar classes have at best had brief periods of some niche role (engy with scrapper for a while after HoT for instance).

[SPESHAL.9106]

@Sylosi.6503 said:

@SPESHAL.9106 said:People don't realize that Conquest and large group WvW actually masks ...

Conquest, yes, large group WvW on the other hand simply highlights how bad balance is when you move it away from conquest, WvW literally has the worst balance I've ever seen over the long term in an alleged PvP game mode.

You have some classes that for the full 6 years of this game have always been considered subpar for WvW blobs/zergs (engies, rangers, thieves, etc), whilst at the same time you have other classes that have always been so broken OP for that they have basically been indispensable and required in vast numbers (guard, necro, etc).

Now I've played plenty games where balance is bad at one given time or another, but never one where the same classes remain broken OP or broken UP for literally half a decade.

You're right but actually making my point. WvW has a bit of everything. You're just focusing on zerg battles which make a few professions more viable...yet on the skirmish/solo side of WvW, those same professions are useless.

Right now, WvW and sPvP has enough conquest/zerg and mobility/solo play that it masks the real imbalances between professions. Even professions that can't bunker a node in pvp (like a thief) can carry a game with their mobility and +1 capabilities. If you don't want to play zerg WvW, you aren't FORCED to do so. You have other options so the imbalance isn't as severe as you think.

On the flip side, if you had a map that was solely based on 2v2 with no conquest/no zerg, then that would totally shut out certain professions. It would make the current imbalances you're noting with certain aspects of WvW and sPvP seem like nothing in comparison.

[witcher.3197]

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:granted, but to fail once and not try again for what ever reason is a crime.im not sure what you mean by gw2 combat not allowing for game mode variety.

Stronghold is a basically the most popular GW1 PvP mode ported for Gw2 and absolutely butchered into an unplayable PvE mess because otherwise it wouldn't work here.

It's really, really hard to set up a gamemode that can't be exploited through AoE stealth, portal, dodging and instant cast invulnerabilities on short CD.

Example: you think capture the flag would be fun? Sure, let's keep the rules we still have on Spirit Watch like teleporting drops the flag so does invulnerability, etc. What about dodging? A paladin double shortbow Dash Daredevil with all initiative/endurance regen focused traits and skills could probably cap flags without getting pressured. Some CC like Ring of Warding could halt them, but only if they are completely on their own, with a Guardian backing them they'd be immortal. Or a Mirage leaping around with sword using the most tanky mesmer setup possible, dodging out of stuns having perma stab.

There are just too many broken things in this game for most things to work. To make the orb mechanic on Spirit Watch balanced they literally had to take away the skill bar of players, that says it all I think.

The only reason anyone dies in PvP to begin with are capture points where you're forced into taking damage. In WvW killing a GS warrior is damn impossible because of their mobility and immunities, in Conquest however you win if they run away.

I'm bored of it too but we have Conquest for a reason. Still a 3v3 could be interesting if it had some kind of good tiebreaker and a few restrictions.

[Kraitan.8476]

Even if balance was broken (more than we have currently on a regular basis?) I would love something other than nodewars2.

[mortrialus.3062]

@SPESHAL.9106 said:If you think balance is bad now, just wait to see how bad it is with 2v2. A lot of current problems are masked by conquest. Some professions can't even duel. Plus, there are some abilities like Moa that make one player totally lose control of their character for a long period and no counter. This would be insta kill in 2v2 scenarios and super OP. Professions that can group stealth and guarantee the first strike would also be OP.

On top of all that, there are certain professions with low sustain, low group utility, and/or low mobility. These would be much more exaggerated in a 2v2 scenario.

People don't realize that Conquest and large group WvW actually masks the severe imbalances between professions in 1v1 and 2v2 scenarios. It would be a disaster unless they made MAJOR revamps.

Moa has a real obvious wind up though. It's easily avoidable.

Really 2v2 is going to be the Scourge-Firebrand show. No other team comp is going to be anywhere near as potent as that. It'll be like Burning Crusade era Warrior / Druid from WoW.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

@SPESHAL.9106 said:If you think balance is bad now, just wait to see how bad it is with 2v2. A lot of current problems are masked by conquest. Some professions can't even duel. Plus, there are some abilities like Moa that make one player totally lose control of their character for a long period and no counter. This would be insta kill in 2v2 scenarios and super OP. Professions that can group stealth and guarantee the first strike would also be OP.

On top of all that, there are certain professions with low sustain, low group utility, and/or low mobility. These would be much more exaggerated in a 2v2 scenario.

People don't realize that Conquest and large group WvW actually masks the severe imbalances between professions in 1v1 and 2v2 scenarios. It would be a disaster unless they made MAJOR revamps.

cant disagree with that. there are major and minor changes they can make to improve duel potential. anyway im not considering anything smaller then 5v5. hopefully when 2v2s come out the devs will actually do something about your points.

@witcher.3197 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:granted, but to fail once and not try again for what ever reason is a crime.im not sure what you mean by gw2 combat not allowing for game mode variety.

Stronghold is a basically the most popular GW1 PvP mode ported for Gw2 and absolutely butchered into an unplayable PvE mess because otherwise it wouldn't work here.

It's really, really hard to set up a gamemode that can't be exploited through AoE stealth, portal, dodging and instant cast invulnerabilities on short CD.

Example: you think

capture the flag

would be fun? Sure, let's keep the rules we still have on Spirit Watch like teleporting drops the flag so does invulnerability, etc. What about dodging? A paladin double shortbow Dash Daredevil with all initiative/endurance regen focused traits and skills could probably cap flags without getting pressured. Some CC like Ring of Warding could halt them, but only if they are completely on their own, with a Guardian backing them they'd be immortal. Or a Mirage leaping around with sword using the most tanky mesmer setup possible, dodging out of stuns having perma stab.

There are just too many broken things in this game for most things to work. To make the orb mechanic on Spirit Watch balanced they literally had to take away the skill bar of players, that says it all I think.

The only reason anyone dies in PvP to begin with are capture points where you're forced into taking damage. In WvW killing a GS warrior is kitten impossible because of their mobility and immunities, in Conquest however you win if they run away.

I'm bored of it too but we have Conquest for a reason. Still a 3v3 could be interesting if it had some kind of good tiebreaker and a few restrictions.

hmm well stronghold can definitely see some changes. its not hard to set up new game modes lol, half of those reasons either have more relevance in conquest then they do in other modes or arent that big of a deal.

there are some pretty easy ways to negate some of the op things in your ctf example. first and foremost, no dodging,, using utility skills, weapon swapping or even equipping. you get a blank skill bar and thats it. yes like spirit watch, it works so thats that.