CantoGuy.6459 Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 Ok I'm probably going to get a lot of "lawl thief is bad learn to play" but I'm pretty fricken tired of this class being pretty much immortal right now. Currently if a thief engages it faces absolutely no consequences by having instant reflexes. No matter what I do to defend myself all the thief has to do is keep attacking until their below 50% where their bullsh!t auto invulnerability trait activates and then they can just go use their never-ending supply of ports to get away unpunished. Though Mesmer is just as annoying at least they CAN be killed but as long as instant reflexes is in the game thief will always be the most forgiving class... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawdler.8521 Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 Mesmer OP!Wait this is about thief? WHAT IS THIS MADNESS?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whoknocks.4935 Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 @"CantoGuy.6459" said:Ok I'm probably going to get a lot of "lawl thief is bad learn to play" but I'm pretty fricken tired of this class being pretty much immortal right now. Currently if a thief engages it faces absolutely no consequences by having instant reflexes. No matter what I do to defend myself all the thief has to do is keep attacking until their below 50% where their bullsh!t auto invulnerability trait activates and then they can just go use their never-ending supply of ports to get away unpunished. Though Mesmer is just as annoying at least they CAN be killed but as long as instant reflexes is in the game thief will always be the most forgiving class...Actually started playing thief for the first time lately, and it's a profession that pay off a lot the skill level of the player, to be good at thief you have to know perfectly every single enemy profession you encounter, dodge at the right time more than any other profession, insta pop your stunbreaks if you get Cc'd. One mistake and you die poorly.Completely opposite case is scourge, with scourge you dont care if the enemy has aegis, resistance, stability, or any other boon. You just spam your skills, corrupt anything, interrupt the enemy healing skill converting stab into fear and you win even random dodging.Definetely thief is way and a lot easier to kill than condi mirage or any other mirage build, they are not at the level of scourge, but definitely a low risk high reward spec which has more evades, invulns, mobility, sustan than a thief, plus access to stealth as well.You can recognise immediately a noob thief who just started the game from a pro one, the difference is huge, it's not a profession you play for the first time and you are a champion with it. Scourge has a low skill cap, you wont see much difference from a good scourge to a bad one, the good one probably will time the interrupts on you better, but he will still spam brainlessy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawdler.8521 Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 @whoknocks.4935 said:You can recognise immediately a noob thief who just started the game from a pro one, the difference is hugeThat's true enough. If they have anything other than dagger/pistol, it's a noob. Easy distinction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FASTCAR.7831 Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 Most thieves dont have skill and rely on macros Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bq pd.2148 Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 that is correct a thief with IR can attack anyone and should rarely die, but they will call one with SA over acro cheesy because they can better avoid the fight starting at all even tho they cannot try and error as much. how many times i have argued with such thieves who is running â more cheesy build :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GDchiaScrub.3241 Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 B-b-b-but! How am I suppose to Staff/Staff vault dodge spam in blobs without that trait?D: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kovu.7560 Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 @MUDse.7623 said:who is running â more cheesy buildAll professions are measured by their cheesiest builds, not by what the gentlemen players agree to run. I happen to think on the whole mesmers are much worse to deal with than thieves. But that's because I play ranger a lot and thieves don't have near permanent reflection uptime.@whoknocks.4935 Its funny you'd mention scourges in the same vein with mesmers and thieves, I personally find mesmers and thieves to be two of your better options for dealing with scourges.~ Kovu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bq pd.2148 Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 @Kovu.7560 said:@MUDse.7623 said:who is running â more cheesy buildAll professions are measured by their cheesiest builds, not by what the gentlemen players agree to run. I happen to think on the whole mesmers are much worse to deal with than thieves. But that's because I play ranger a lot and thieves don't have near permanent reflection uptime.@whoknocks.4935 Its funny you'd mention scourges in the same vein with mesmers and thieves, I personally find mesmers and thieves to be two of your better options for dealing with scourges.~ Kovuwhat is more cheesy on your class depends on your opponent tho. for my rifle deadeye now the only mesmers that are an issue are power mirages with evasive mirror trait and good endurance regain stuffs, because high reflect uptime ( that will change probably with silent scope patch tho) . while many complain about condi mirages that deal pretty much 0 damage to me cause of SA. so for me a power mesmer with that trait is cheesy, while for someone else a condi mesmer might be more cheesy.for thieves it is probably like this:thieves have real good escape option against power damage with instant reflexes as they can retreat then on proc and they have insane condi cleanse options with SA. so if you are running a power build, an acro thief will feel more cheesy against you. if you are a condi build, an SA thief should be nearly unkillable for you.if you run both SA + acro you should not be able to die as a thief, but you wont deal damage to kill anything :D overall i dont think thief is the most forgiving class. a mistake might not kill you but force you to retreat, while making mistakes and still staying in the fight would be more forgiving and i think in many cases other classes are better in this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanAlcedo.3281 Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 I was looking at the title and asked myself : Ok Mesmer or Thief? My bet was Mesmer but looks like i was wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenesisII.1540 Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 I normally like to compromise for any situation.Desert borderland? ok some people want it, most don't, but let's just keep 1 bl as it, ok cool doesn't need to be removed..Legendary or ascended gear? ok can't be easy, still needs to be prestigious in fractals and raids, good compromise made.Siege? arrow carts and shield gens could use some tweaks for sure, but don't need to be removed.Stealth? one of the worse implementations in a game, limited to short burst of it might be ok for escapes, more counters needed.Thieves? just delete them, it would make much more people happy than unhappy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bq pd.2148 Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 @XenesisII.1540 said:Thieves? just delete them, it would make much more people happy than unhappy.depends on what the thief players will switch to :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig. Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 thief is hard? when was that? Yeah, one shotting people out of stealth with unblockable attacks is really demanding, isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warkind.6745 Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 If a 2s evade is your downfall, I don't think I believe you've ever killed a mesmer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sovereign.1093 Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 mmmm.. rangers kill everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DemonSeed.3528 Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 @Sovereign.1093 said:mmmm.. rangers kill everything.They even killed wvw /s XD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kovu.7560 Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 Only scourges and bad players die to rangers.... There might be overlap.~ Kovu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voltekka.2375 Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 @whoknocks.4935 said:@"CantoGuy.6459" said:Ok I'm probably going to get a lot of "lawl thief is bad learn to play" but I'm pretty fricken tired of this class being pretty much immortal right now. Currently if a thief engages it faces absolutely no consequences by having instant reflexes. No matter what I do to defend myself all the thief has to do is keep attacking until their below 50% where their bullsh!t auto invulnerability trait activates and then they can just go use their never-ending supply of ports to get away unpunished. Though Mesmer is just as annoying at least they CAN be killed but as long as instant reflexes is in the game thief will always be the most forgiving class...Actually started playing thief for the first time lately, and it's a profession that pay off a lot the skill level of the player, to be good at thief you have to know perfectly every single enemy profession you encounter, dodge at the right time more than any other profession, insta pop your stunbreaks if you get Cc'd. One mistake and you die poorly.Completely opposite case is scourge, with scourge you dont care if the enemy has aegis, resistance, stability, or any other boon. You just spam your skills, corrupt anything, interrupt the enemy healing skill converting stab into fear and you win even random dodging.Definetely thief is way and a lot easier to kill than condi mirage or any other mirage build, they are not at the level of scourge, but definitely a low risk high reward spec which has more evades, invulns, mobility, sustan than a thief, plus access to stealth as well.You can recognise immediately a noob thief who just started the game from a pro one, the difference is huge, it's not a profession you play for the first time and you are a champion with it. Scourge has a low skill cap, you wont see much difference from a good scourge to a bad one, the good one probably will time the interrupts on you better, but he will still spam brainlessy.Scourge is a terrible dueling class. Honestly, if you die to scourge as any half decent dueling class, (thief mesmer ranger scepter or sword weaver holo etc)... Kiting the scourge kills the scourge. Not sure why scourge is seen as a threat in roaming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jugglemonkey.8741 Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 Just wait for the passive cooldown changes from PvP to hit WvW, when instant reflexes becomes a 90s cd along with the other class's passives the game will be in a healthier place overall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddie.5861 Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 @"CantoGuy.6459" said:Ok I'm probably going to get a lot of "lawl thief is bad learn to play" but I'm pretty fricken tired of this class being pretty much immortal right now. Currently if a thief engages it faces absolutely no consequences by having instant reflexes. No matter what I do to defend myself all the thief has to do is keep attacking until their below 50% where their bullsh!t auto invulnerability trait activates and then they can just go use their never-ending supply of ports to get away unpunished. Though Mesmer is just as annoying at least they CAN be killed but as long as instant reflexes is in the game thief will always be the most forgiving class...i thought u where saying im not talking about thief im talking about mirage(mesmer) who can port stealth evade and have 20 invuls :Dhow can people still cry about thief lmao.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawdler.8521 Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 @reddie.5861 said:@"CantoGuy.6459" said:Ok I'm probably going to get a lot of "lawl thief is bad learn to play" but I'm pretty fricken tired of this class being pretty much immortal right now. Currently if a thief engages it faces absolutely no consequences by having instant reflexes. No matter what I do to defend myself all the thief has to do is keep attacking until their below 50% where their bullsh!t auto invulnerability trait activates and then they can just go use their never-ending supply of ports to get away unpunished. Though Mesmer is just as annoying at least they CAN be killed but as long as instant reflexes is in the game thief will always be the most forgiving class...i thought u where saying im not talking about thief im talking about mirage(mesmer) who can port stealth evade and have 20 invuls :Dhow can people still cry about thief lmao..Yeah all those invoulns make it OP. i mean you got:Mind Wrack (F1, dmg)CoF (F2, condi)Diversion (F3, daze)Distortion (F4, invouln)Continuum Split (F5, chrono)Contortion (F6, invouln)Intortion (F7, invouln)Warp (F8, invouln)Deformation (F9, invouln)Malformation (F10, invouln)Disfigure (F11, invouln)Distract (F12, invouln)Clonestorm (Ctrl-F1, invouln)Spasm (Ctrl-F2, invouln)Mirrorrage (Ctrl-F3, invouln)Haze (Ctrl-F4, invouln)Conformation (Ctrl-F5, invouln)Illusionary Sparkle (Ctrl-F6, invouln)Chaos Inversion (Ctrl-F7, invouln)Mindfeck (Ctrl-F8, invouln)Phantasmasm (Ctrl-F9, invouln)Diffusion (Ctrl-F10, invouln)Modulate (Ctrl-F11, invouln)Mimicry (Ctrl-F12, invouln)Luckily we still have room for Shift and Alt modified invulnerables after Anet buffs the Mesmer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X T D.6458 Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 Condi and cc spam counter thieves. Stealth needs to be removed from the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sorayuki.8906 Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 A thief is only going to start a fight they have a 100% chance of winning. If it drops below 100%, they'll run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whoknocks.4935 Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 @Voltekka.2375 said:@whoknocks.4935 said:@"CantoGuy.6459" said:Ok I'm probably going to get a lot of "lawl thief is bad learn to play" but I'm pretty fricken tired of this class being pretty much immortal right now. Currently if a thief engages it faces absolutely no consequences by having instant reflexes. No matter what I do to defend myself all the thief has to do is keep attacking until their below 50% where their bullsh!t auto invulnerability trait activates and then they can just go use their never-ending supply of ports to get away unpunished. Though Mesmer is just as annoying at least they CAN be killed but as long as instant reflexes is in the game thief will always be the most forgiving class...Actually started playing thief for the first time lately, and it's a profession that pay off a lot the skill level of the player, to be good at thief you have to know perfectly every single enemy profession you encounter, dodge at the right time more than any other profession, insta pop your stunbreaks if you get Cc'd. One mistake and you die poorly.Completely opposite case is scourge, with scourge you dont care if the enemy has aegis, resistance, stability, or any other boon. You just spam your skills, corrupt anything, interrupt the enemy healing skill converting stab into fear and you win even random dodging.Definetely thief is way and a lot easier to kill than condi mirage or any other mirage build, they are not at the level of scourge, but definitely a low risk high reward spec which has more evades, invulns, mobility, sustan than a thief, plus access to stealth as well.You can recognise immediately a noob thief who just started the game from a pro one, the difference is huge, it's not a profession you play for the first time and you are a champion with it. Scourge has a low skill cap, you wont see much difference from a good scourge to a bad one, the good one probably will time the interrupts on you better, but he will still spam brainlessy.Scourge is a terrible dueling class. Honestly, if you die to scourge as any half decent dueling class, (thief mesmer ranger scepter or sword weaver holo etc)... Kiting the scourge kills the scourge. Not sure why scourge is seen as a threat in roamingMaybe you never encountered a vitality healing power condi scourge xD if you find one roaming you know what i mean, even worse than vitality toughness condi... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rezzet.3614 Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 eh thief's passive defense is ok, thief's problem is shortbow 5+ spam, Steal's range , sword's 2 spam, super speed on stealth(on a perma stealth class) thief basically has infinite mobility as long they got initiative , pair that with the easy access to stealth and yeah it becomes a problem amplified once you pair it with Daredevil triple avade+ evade dash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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