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A Class With a Sh!t Tonne of Evades, Ports, and Stealth Should NOT Get a Passive Defense

CantoGuy.6459

By CantoGuy.6459
in World vs. World

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CantoGuy.6459

CantoGuy.6459

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Ok I'm probably going to get a lot of "lawl thief is bad learn to play" but I'm pretty fricken tired of this class being pretty much immortal right now. Currently if a thief engages it faces absolutely no consequences by having instant reflexes. No matter what I do to defend myself all the thief has to do is keep attacking until their below 50% where their bullsh!t auto invulnerability trait activates and then they can just go use their never-ending supply of ports to get away unpunished. Though Mesmer is just as annoying at least they CAN be killed but as long as instant reflexes is in the game thief will always be the most forgiving class...

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whoknocks.4935

whoknocks.4935

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@"CantoGuy.6459" said:Ok I'm probably going to get a lot of "lawl thief is bad learn to play" but I'm pretty fricken tired of this class being pretty much immortal right now. Currently if a thief engages it faces absolutely no consequences by having instant reflexes. No matter what I do to defend myself all the thief has to do is keep attacking until their below 50% where their bullsh!t auto invulnerability trait activates and then they can just go use their never-ending supply of ports to get away unpunished. Though Mesmer is just as annoying at least they CAN be killed but as long as instant reflexes is in the game thief will always be the most forgiving class...

Actually started playing thief for the first time lately, and it's a profession that pay off a lot the skill level of the player, to be good at thief you have to know perfectly every single enemy profession you encounter, dodge at the right time more than any other profession, insta pop your stunbreaks if you get Cc'd. One mistake and you die poorly.

Completely opposite case is scourge, with scourge you dont care if the enemy has aegis, resistance, stability, or any other boon. You just spam your skills, corrupt anything, interrupt the enemy healing skill converting stab into fear and you win even random dodging.

Definetely thief is way and a lot easier to kill than condi mirage or any other mirage build, they are not at the level of scourge, but definitely a low risk high reward spec which has more evades, invulns, mobility, sustan than a thief, plus access to stealth as well.

You can recognise immediately a noob thief who just started the game from a pro one, the difference is huge, it's not a profession you play for the first time and you are a champion with it. Scourge has a low skill cap, you wont see much difference from a good scourge to a bad one, the good one probably will time the interrupts on you better, but he will still spam brainlessy.

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bq pd.2148

bq pd.2148

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that is correct a thief with IR can attack anyone and should rarely die, but they will call one with SA over acro cheesy because they can better avoid the fight starting at all even tho they cannot try and error as much. how many times i have argued with such thieves who is running â more cheesy build :D

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Kovu.7560

Kovu.7560

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@MUDse.7623 said:who is running â more cheesy build

All professions are measured by their cheesiest builds, not by what the gentlemen players agree to run. I happen to think on the whole mesmers are much worse to deal with than thieves. But that's because I play ranger a lot and thieves don't have near permanent reflection uptime.

@whoknocks.4935 Its funny you'd mention scourges in the same vein with mesmers and thieves, I personally find mesmers and thieves to be two of your better options for dealing with scourges.

~ Kovu

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bq pd.2148

bq pd.2148

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@Kovu.7560 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:who is running â more cheesy build

All professions are measured by their cheesiest builds, not by what the gentlemen players agree to run. I happen to think on the whole mesmers are much worse to deal with than thieves. But that's because I play ranger a lot and thieves don't have near permanent reflection uptime.

@whoknocks.4935 Its funny you'd mention scourges in the same vein with mesmers and thieves, I personally find mesmers and thieves to be two of your better options for dealing with scourges.

~ Kovu

what is more cheesy on your class depends on your opponent tho. for my rifle deadeye now the only mesmers that are an issue are power mirages with evasive mirror trait and good endurance regain stuffs, because high reflect uptime ( that will change probably with silent scope patch tho) . while many complain about condi mirages that deal pretty much 0 damage to me cause of SA. so for me a power mesmer with that trait is cheesy, while for someone else a condi mesmer might be more cheesy.

for thieves it is probably like this:thieves have real good escape option against power damage with instant reflexes as they can retreat then on proc and they have insane condi cleanse options with SA. so if you are running a power build, an acro thief will feel more cheesy against you. if you are a condi build, an SA thief should be nearly unkillable for you.if you run both SA + acro you should not be able to die as a thief, but you wont deal damage to kill anything :D

overall i dont think thief is the most forgiving class. a mistake might not kill you but force you to retreat, while making mistakes and still staying in the fight would be more forgiving and i think in many cases other classes are better in this.

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XenesisII.1540

XenesisII.1540

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I normally like to compromise for any situation.Desert borderland? ok some people want it, most don't, but let's just keep 1 bl as it, ok cool doesn't need to be removed..Legendary or ascended gear? ok can't be easy, still needs to be prestigious in fractals and raids, good compromise made.Siege? arrow carts and shield gens could use some tweaks for sure, but don't need to be removed.Stealth? one of the worse implementations in a game, limited to short burst of it might be ok for escapes, more counters needed.

Thieves? just delete them, it would make much more people happy than unhappy.

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Voltekka.2375

Voltekka.2375

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@whoknocks.4935 said:

@"CantoGuy.6459" said:Ok I'm probably going to get a lot of "lawl thief is bad learn to play" but I'm pretty fricken tired of this class being pretty much immortal right now. Currently if a thief engages it faces absolutely no consequences by having instant reflexes. No matter what I do to defend myself all the thief has to do is keep attacking until their below 50% where their bullsh!t auto invulnerability trait activates and then they can just go use their never-ending supply of ports to get away unpunished. Though Mesmer is just as annoying at least they CAN be killed but as long as instant reflexes is in the game thief will always be the most forgiving class...

Actually started playing thief for the first time lately, and it's a profession that pay off a lot the skill level of the player, to be good at thief you have to know perfectly every single enemy profession you encounter, dodge at the right time more than any other profession, insta pop your stunbreaks if you get Cc'd. One mistake and you die poorly.

Completely opposite case is scourge, with scourge you dont care if the enemy has aegis, resistance, stability, or any other boon. You just spam your skills, corrupt anything, interrupt the enemy healing skill converting stab into fear and you win even random dodging.

Definetely thief is way and a lot easier to kill than condi mirage or any other mirage build, they are not at the level of scourge, but definitely a low risk high reward spec which has more evades, invulns, mobility, sustan than a thief, plus access to stealth as well.

You can recognise immediately a noob thief who just started the game from a pro one, the difference is huge, it's not a profession you play for the first time and you are a champion with it. Scourge has a low skill cap, you wont see much difference from a good scourge to a bad one, the good one probably will time the interrupts on you better, but he will still spam brainlessy.

Scourge is a terrible dueling class. Honestly, if you die to scourge as any half decent dueling class, (thief mesmer ranger scepter or sword weaver holo etc)... Kiting the scourge kills the scourge. Not sure why scourge is seen as a threat in roaming

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reddie.5861

reddie.5861

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@"CantoGuy.6459" said:Ok I'm probably going to get a lot of "lawl thief is bad learn to play" but I'm pretty fricken tired of this class being pretty much immortal right now. Currently if a thief engages it faces absolutely no consequences by having instant reflexes. No matter what I do to defend myself all the thief has to do is keep attacking until their below 50% where their bullsh!t auto invulnerability trait activates and then they can just go use their never-ending supply of ports to get away unpunished. Though Mesmer is just as annoying at least they CAN be killed but as long as instant reflexes is in the game thief will always be the most forgiving class...

i thought u where saying im not talking about thief im talking about mirage(mesmer) who can port stealth evade and have 20 invuls :Dhow can people still cry about thief lmao..

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Dawdler.8521

Dawdler.8521

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@reddie.5861 said:

@"CantoGuy.6459" said:Ok I'm probably going to get a lot of "lawl thief is bad learn to play" but I'm pretty fricken tired of this class being pretty much immortal right now. Currently if a thief engages it faces absolutely no consequences by having instant reflexes. No matter what I do to defend myself all the thief has to do is keep attacking until their below 50% where their bullsh!t auto invulnerability trait activates and then they can just go use their never-ending supply of ports to get away unpunished. Though Mesmer is just as annoying at least they CAN be killed but as long as instant reflexes is in the game thief will always be the most forgiving class...

i thought u where saying im not talking about thief im talking about mirage(mesmer) who can port stealth evade and have 20 invuls :Dhow can people still cry about thief lmao..

Yeah all those invoulns make it OP. i mean you got:

Mind Wrack (F1, dmg)CoF (F2, condi)Diversion (F3, daze)Distortion (F4, invouln)Continuum Split (F5, chrono)Contortion (F6, invouln)Intortion (F7, invouln)Warp (F8, invouln)Deformation (F9, invouln)Malformation (F10, invouln)Disfigure (F11, invouln)Distract (F12, invouln)Clonestorm (Ctrl-F1, invouln)Spasm (Ctrl-F2, invouln)Mirrorrage (Ctrl-F3, invouln)Haze (Ctrl-F4, invouln)Conformation (Ctrl-F5, invouln)Illusionary Sparkle (Ctrl-F6, invouln)Chaos Inversion (Ctrl-F7, invouln)Mindfeck (Ctrl-F8, invouln)Phantasmasm (Ctrl-F9, invouln)Diffusion (Ctrl-F10, invouln)Modulate (Ctrl-F11, invouln)Mimicry (Ctrl-F12, invouln)

Luckily we still have room for Shift and Alt modified invulnerables after Anet buffs the Mesmer.

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whoknocks.4935

whoknocks.4935

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@Voltekka.2375 said:

@"CantoGuy.6459" said:Ok I'm probably going to get a lot of "lawl thief is bad learn to play" but I'm pretty fricken tired of this class being pretty much immortal right now. Currently if a thief engages it faces absolutely no consequences by having instant reflexes. No matter what I do to defend myself all the thief has to do is keep attacking until their below 50% where their bullsh!t auto invulnerability trait activates and then they can just go use their never-ending supply of ports to get away unpunished. Though Mesmer is just as annoying at least they CAN be killed but as long as instant reflexes is in the game thief will always be the most forgiving class...

Actually started playing thief for the first time lately, and it's a profession that pay off a lot the skill level of the player, to be good at thief you have to know perfectly every single enemy profession you encounter, dodge at the right time more than any other profession, insta pop your stunbreaks if you get Cc'd. One mistake and you die poorly.

Completely opposite case is scourge, with scourge you dont care if the enemy has aegis, resistance, stability, or any other boon. You just spam your skills, corrupt anything, interrupt the enemy healing skill converting stab into fear and you win even random dodging.

Definetely thief is way and a lot easier to kill than condi mirage or any other mirage build, they are not at the level of scourge, but definitely a low risk high reward spec which has more evades, invulns, mobility, sustan than a thief, plus access to stealth as well.

You can recognise immediately a noob thief who just started the game from a pro one, the difference is huge, it's not a profession you play for the first time and you are a champion with it. Scourge has a low skill cap, you wont see much difference from a good scourge to a bad one, the good one probably will time the interrupts on you better, but he will still spam brainlessy.

Scourge is a terrible dueling class. Honestly, if you die to scourge as any half decent dueling class, (thief mesmer ranger scepter or sword weaver holo etc)... Kiting the scourge kills the scourge. Not sure why scourge is seen as a threat in roaming

Maybe you never encountered a vitality healing power condi scourge xD if you find one roaming you know what i mean, even worse than vitality toughness condi...

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Rezzet.3614

Rezzet.3614

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eh thief's passive defense is ok, thief's problem is shortbow 5+ spam, Steal's range , sword's 2 spam, super speed on stealth(on a perma stealth class) thief basically has infinite mobility as long they got initiative , pair that with the easy access to stealth and yeah it becomes a problem amplified once you pair it with Daredevil triple avade+ evade dash

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