Can eles get some buffs in pvp?

[bravan.3876]

@mortrialus.3062 said:Bring back fresh air weaver as viable spikey off node damage.

No this retarded instant range mechanic needs to go.

[Alatar.7364]

Ok, I've been pretty afraid to say this on Forums to not get eaten alive, but at least S/D Weaver doesn't need any buffs nor nerfs. With freaking Sage and Avatar amulets I had no problem fighting some seriously good players for win or 1v2 for stalls. Hell, Made it even work with god damn Earth/Water and Fire/Water as well with some strange Rune choices. It's fine as it is, quite a few options, quite a few different roles, only whether it's competitively useful in conquest remains in question.

[Math.5123]

@Hoodie.1045 said:

@Poelala.2830 said:

@Hoodie.1045 said:

@Poelala.2830 said:

@Hoodie.1045 said:

@LazySummer.2568 said:If ele's supposed to be the stupid +1 role such as FA or staff, either it should get better access to escape like thieves & mesmer or its slow/channeled attacks should do big impact when they do land. For example, Dragon's Tooth and Pile Driver doing only similar amount of damage as a fast skill such as Plasma Beam is not ok. Also, Shatterstone is such a meme that even after the buff and having Piercing Shards traited, I just see enemies walk all over them like they don't exist in team fights while losing to some scepter mesmer who face-tanked it 3 times in a 1v1.

The only thing that I would love to see changed about core elementalist is for the scepter auto attacks to be reworked as well as the focus fire skills. Every scepter auto attack except the air one is awful and the fire focus skills serve no purpose other than might stacking.

False. The water auto is amazing when using SoR to spam self heals.

The water auto isn't bad, but it isn't good either. It is only useful to heal yourself when using Signet of Restoration and that's about it. It scales better with power damage compared to the fire and earth auto attacks and it has the shortest cast time.

I don’t know specifically what type of changes you want to the autos, but all are great with, maybe exception to, fire.

Arc Lightning and Ice Shards are fine as they are.

The only changes I would like to see for Flamestrike and Stone Shards is for them to scale better with power damage than Ice Shards. Flamestrike the second highest damage, Stone Shards the third highest damage.

Stone Shards should have its' cast time reduced from 1.5 seconds to 0.75 seconds and maybe have it apply weakness.

Flamestrike should have its' cast time reduced from 1 second to 0.5 seconds and it allows you to attack foes from behind you. This would be a great auto attack to kite enemies with.

How do you think giving a class weakness on autoing is going to be a healthy direction to take an already power creeped game?

[Razor.6392]

Eles are in their worst state in years and no amount of tiny buffs will fix them.

Need radical buffs like giving lightning flash 2 charges, making plasma beam unblockable, reducing phoenix and burning speed cooldowns to 12 seconds untraited, buffing the shit out of unravel, giving evade frames (or at least removal of chill /immob / cripple) to ride the lightning, making lightning touch and fire grab cone aoe much wider and longer, either buff drake's breath or cone of ice damage or make it last less because you're a sitting duck while you do negligible damage atm, give arcane blast 3 charges again, return arcane fury, rework invigorating strikes and woven stride, buff fire and earth trait lines, remove shatterstone damage buffs and give it cc, give dragon's tooth a reactivation button so it falls earlier for lower damage, buff fire aura and flamewall, buff dagger dual skills because they're trash in many ways, give sword earth #2 mobility while underground, buff dual skills for sword to 180 range, reduce cast time of flames uprising

I could go on forever boys, and you know what, ele would at best be 'viable' after all these changes.

[LazySummer.2568]

@bravan.3876 said:

@LazySummer.2568 said:

@bravan.3876 said:They should nerf all dmg from all these bunker and bruiser builds not buff any of these. Even ele has still too much dmg compared to the brainless sustain it has. Just because other builds have even more dmg don't make it a good reason to buff. Also the sustain of these builds should get nerfed in a way, that it dies way faster when played bad. The only support/bunker/bruiser build is more or less balanced in the sustain-dmg relation is support fb.

you sound like someone that doesnt know how to fight against bunker weavers. Literally just kite around when you see primordial stance pulsing and there goes most of its damage. Also, Brusier =/= bunker. Support bunker fb dont do damage but they have a lot higher survival / node holding potential than weavers. The most bunkery weaver build basically does as much dmg as a support fb when they pull out their F1 tomes. Ones with Sages amulet for example has nowhere near the sustain as a support fb

Wrong. And i know how to fight an ele: You don't fight an ele 1v1 ever, at least not on his node.

You know how to fight an ele by not fighting them? So instead playing ele, which most will agree is bottom tier class, to figure out their weaknesses, you just assume they are some sort of unkillable op class that apparently also do a shit ton of damage. Sure, if possible, you want them to afk on a node, but if you do have to fight them there are tons of ways to win as all you have to do is decap instead of kill. You making the current ele sound like some sort of bunker druid before the stealth nerf really tells me you don't know how to fight them. Actually, it seems like you just like to call everything that even remotely gives you trouble braindead (eg. core guard, and somehow bunker chrono is less braindead than core guard lol) in which case I don't even know what you would consider not braindead.

[Crab Fear.1624]

Okay

move ele up to tier 2 healthgive them a pulsing condi clear in their healingremove healing from water and make it chilly, with unblockable pulsing damage while the foe is chilled (regardless if resisting lol)remove invulnsmove them up to medium armor, because why not.also they should have commands for their elemental summons in the fbar

[Math.5123]

@Razor.6392 said:Eles are in their worst state in years and no amount of tiny buffs will fix them.

Need radical buffs like giving lightning flash 2 charges, making plasma beam unblockable, reducing phoenix and burning speed cooldowns to 12 seconds untraited, buffing the kitten out of unravel, giving evade frames (or at least removal of chill /immob / cripple) to ride the lightning, making lightning touch and fire grab cone aoe much wider and longer, either buff drake's breath or cone of ice damage or make it last less because you're a sitting duck while you do negligible damage atm, give arcane blast 3 charges again, return arcane fury, rework invigorating strikes and woven stride, buff fire and earth trait lines, remove shatterstone damage buffs and give it cc, give dragon's tooth a reactivation button so it falls earlier for lower damage, buff fire aura and flamewall, buff dagger dual skills because they're trash in many ways, give sword earth #2 mobility while underground, buff dual skills for sword to 180 range, reduce cast time of flames uprising

I could go on forever boys, and you know what, ele would at best be 'viable' after all these changes.

HowAboutNo?

[bravan.3876]

@LazySummer.2568 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@LazySummer.2568 said:

@bravan.3876 said:They should nerf all dmg from all these bunker and bruiser builds not buff any of these. Even ele has still too much dmg compared to the brainless sustain it has. Just because other builds have even more dmg don't make it a good reason to buff. Also the sustain of these builds should get nerfed in a way, that it dies way faster when played bad. The only support/bunker/bruiser build is more or less balanced in the sustain-dmg relation is support fb.

you sound like someone that doesnt know how to fight against bunker weavers. Literally just kite around when you see primordial stance pulsing and there goes most of its damage. Also, Brusier =/= bunker. Support bunker fb dont do damage but they have a lot higher survival / node holding potential than weavers. The most bunkery weaver build basically does as much dmg as a support fb when they pull out their F1 tomes. Ones with Sages amulet for example has nowhere near the sustain as a support fb

Wrong. And i know how to fight an ele: You don't fight an ele 1v1 ever, at least not on his node.

You know how to fight an ele by not fighting them? So instead playing ele, which most will agree is bottom tier class, to figure out their weaknesses, you just assume they are some sort of unkillable op class that apparently also do a kitten ton of damage. Sure, if possible, you want them to afk on a node, but if you do have to fight them there are tons of ways to win as all you have to do is decap instead of kill. You making the current ele sound like some sort of bunker druid before the stealth nerf really tells me you don't know how to fight them. Actually, it seems like you just like to call everything that even remotely gives you trouble braindead (eg. core guard, and somehow bunker chrono is less braindead than core guard lol) in which case I don't even know what you would consider not braindead.

If you are one of the ppl rotating into an ele 1v1 on his node than gg, Please never be in my team. I play ele myself, not as main, not very good but even i can hold a node vs not even bad player 1v1 and also 1v2 for ages. If you die in a 1v1 with this build you do something wrong. I also can kill high dmg but no sustain builds when i just facetank all their burst. During my dmg is still enough to kill them when hitting them 2-3 times. What will happen sooner or later because my target will probably fall asleep during fighting me, means sooner or later i will get my hits. Time is clearly on my side, in particular on a node is capped for my team already. All the builds with sustain, no matter if pure bunker with no support like sword weaver, bruiser with more dmg or pure support builds Anet never managed to balance the sustain- dmg relation. The only class ever was balanced in that was support guard. So ele don't need any buff it needs nerfs like all other of these forgiving to play facetank builds with way too much dmg. It is ok when a build can hold a point 1v1 or even 1vs2 but please not when played bad and atm every noob can play these bunker/bruiser builds and get carried. I'm mulitclass player i don't care for a special class and defend it no matter what. I want a skillful balance and atm most builds (meta or not) are just for casuals not willing to improve but still wanna get high ranked without enable thier brain a single second during a match. Ele is not an exception, quite the opposite and that it is not meta don't say anything about the skill lvl it needs to be played.

[BeLZedaR.4790]

I don’t know how I feel about this. Bunker ele is the most PITA spec to kill in the entire game. If you ask me, I’d do the following:Increase riptide’s healing back and of some other water skills too.Slightly reduce durations of evades of the utility skill and earth2.Buff damage of fire2 and 1-2 dual skills.

This way we halfway compensate for evade nerf by buffing heals and we buff damage to be able to kill people.

Edit: and I’d like to see tempest make a return via FB nerfs and itself buffed.

[Abelisk.4527]

Just nerf Warrior sustain please. Shield block nerf maybe? Silly how tanky Warrs can be without the need of healing power.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

Durzlla is spot on.The problem is that ele is too reliant on traits to do anything, maybe cut out a bit of damage and sustain modifiers on traits and buff base damage and healing.

[Megametzler.5729]

I loved fresh air during core and even HoT. But I did not like the double attunement issue with it, it forced you to a kind of boring gameplay, because you neglect the other attunement skills even more. But instead of giving a small ICD on FS proc, they reduced the damage, making it completely unviable... that - was - stupid. Revert please.

I'd love to see Sword range increased. 130 on most skills, even dual skills? Seriously, it's a sword, not a toothpick. Dagger has interesting and different attacks with a lot more range. Increasing the range to 180 would be a great first step, allowing for more pressure as a bruiser.

I would love more buffs of course, but I would like to see how s/d would do with these changes.

I feel like tempest's biggest issue is still the lack of stability. It does have great healing and support and everything, but every warrior can almost neglect every overload only using FC... maybe add stability without needing to trait it?

Condi cleanse apart of water has always been and still is a major issue... but that would need a big ass rework, and let's be honest, they are more likely to rework mesmer three more times than waste time on eles.

[Emberheart.8426]

@Megametzler.5729 said:I loved fresh air during core and even HoT. But I did not like the double attunement issue with it, it forced you to a kind of boring gameplay, because you neglect the other attunement skills even more. But instead of giving a small ICD on FS proc, they reduced the damage, making it completely unviable... that - was - stupid. Revert please.

I'd love to see Sword range increased. 130 on most skills, even dual skills? Seriously, it's a sword, not a toothpick. Dagger has interesting and different attacks with a lot more range. Increasing the range to 180 would be a great first step, allowing for more pressure as a bruiser.

I would love more buffs of course, but I would like to see how s/d would do with these changes.

I feel like tempest's biggest issue is still the lack of stability. It does have great healing and support and everything, but every warrior can almost neglect every overload only using FC... maybe add stability without needing to trait it?

Condi cleanse apart of water has always been and still is a major issue... but that would need a big kitten rework, and let's be honest, they are more likely to rework mesmer three more times than waste time on eles.

I think that you stumbled upon a great idea. Really, when you compare firebrand to tempest, the biggest deficiency of tempest is that it doesn't have all that AoE stability that firebrand gets. This is an even bigger deal in WvW, where guardian has been mandatory for ages due to stability. If tempest had decent AoE stability access, it would be a more competetive support to firebrand, while also being able to pull its overloads off sometimes, instead of them being a guaranteed interrupt. Stability access may be all that tempest needs to become good.

As for the whole water cleansing thing, that's not a major issue for tempest, but it does force weaver into water, which is ludicrous, because the devs could have easily avoided this. They made woven stride give you regeneration when you get swiftness and superspeed, instead of directly making them cleanse conditions. It's so simple, that I refuse to believe that the devs didn't think of this. I really don't know why they love forcing ele into water.

[Arkaile.5604]

@Ganathar.4956

The devs actually did think of that and then decided against it, just as it was considered to have Unravel as an f5 ability instead of a utility skill. Woven Stride was at one point called Unravel Hexes or something like that and cleansed one condi every 0.5sec while the weaver had superspeed. A bit too strong, sure, but a nerf to that version of the trait would have been preferable to having it redesigned to force taking water in order to have it cleanse.

[LazySummer.2568]

@bravan.3876 said:I also can kill high dmg but no sustain builds when i just facetank all their burst.

This is how I know you have no idea what you're talking about and is just bitter towards ele for some reason. I'm pretty sure I can kill your shit ele easily on a soulbeast or pp thief if you just facetank all my damage, and I don't even play those 2 classes. You also have yet to name something that isn't braindead. Anyways, no point in arguing with someone who argues by calling everything braindead and random personal anecdotes that probably aren't even real experiences, but made up scenarios through mental gymnastics.

Edit: if ele was that OP like you described btw, you would see it stacked everywhere and even get banned from tournaments like pre-nerf bunker chrono.

[mortrialus.3062]

@bravan.3876 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:Bring back fresh air weaver as viable spikey off node damage.

No this kitten instant range mechanic needs to go.

Elementalists by design should allow for a high risk high reward big spike damage just from a flavor and philosophical level. Tempest support should be a thing, but Elementalists are classic mages and it's so weird from just a flavor level that GW2's magic class doesn't actually hit all that hard with it's huge magic spells.

Fresh Air Weaver was what people wanted from Elementalist game play from the launch of the game.

We can talk about nerfing it's instant cast stuff but Fresh Air Weaver was never overpowered as a whole and I feel like steps should be made to make it a viable part of the meta again.

[Felipe.1807]

Not sure about buffs to eles...when I last played(couple of weeks ago) Ele looked to be on a decent spot, Weaver was a really strong point holder, playing radiance core guard and I had a lot o trouble to force him out of point, to the point that i would just not engage him again on 1v1...i had easier time dealing with FBs then Weaver, atleast the FB is not even a threat to me, while Weaver can actually kill me if I dont pay attention.

[cgMatt.5162]

I mean Fresh Air Weaver is weak to both condi and power spikes, the only reason it can perform at all is by player skill, kiting, and decision making. The damage nerf hurt it and the core class a lot. One With Air and Lightning Flash are the only things that give it the mobility to be a mediocre +1 role (where Thief is better 100% of the time).

[bravan.3876]

@LazySummer.2568 said:

@bravan.3876 said:I also can kill high dmg but no sustain builds when i just facetank all their burst.

This is how I know you have no idea what you're talking about and is just bitter towards ele for some reason. I'm pretty sure I can kill your kitten ele easily on a soulbeast or pp thief if you just facetank all my damage, and I don't even play those 2 classes. You also have yet to name something that isn't braindead. Anyways, no point in arguing with someone who argues by calling everything braindead and random personal anecdotes that probably aren't even real experiences, but made up scenarios through mental gymnastics.

Edit: if ele was that OP like you described btw, you would see it stacked everywhere and even get banned from tournaments like pre-nerf bunker chrono.

No sense in talking any further to someone calling me a lier. You are just an Ele main thinking the class is weak and hard to play only because it is not meta. Even tho being meta or not never said anything about how ez or broken something is. Ele don't need any buffs nor need any other bunker or bruiser build, they all need nerfs, some a bit more than Ele but Ele still too.

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

We can talk about nerfing it's instant cast stuff

That was exactly what i was talking about yes. This range instant mechanic is broken and makes it way to easy to apply this high burst with very low cd.

[LazySummer.2568]

@bravan.3876 said:

@LazySummer.2568 said:

@bravan.3876 said:I also can kill high dmg but no sustain builds when i just facetank all their burst.

This is how I know you have no idea what you're talking about and is just bitter towards ele for some reason. I'm pretty sure I can kill your kitten ele easily on a soulbeast or pp thief if you just facetank all my damage, and I don't even play those 2 classes. You also have yet to name something that isn't braindead. Anyways, no point in arguing with someone who argues by calling everything braindead and random personal anecdotes that probably aren't even real experiences, but made up scenarios through mental gymnastics.

Edit: if ele was that OP like you described btw, you would see it stacked everywhere and even get banned from tournaments like pre-nerf bunker chrono.

No sense in talking any further to someone calling me a lier. You are just an Ele main thinking the class is weak and hard to play only because it is not meta. Even tho being meta or not never said anything about how ez or broken something is. Ele don't need any buffs nor need any other bunker or bruiser build, they all need nerfs, some a bit more than Ele but Ele still too.

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

We can talk about nerfing it's instant cast stuff

That was exactly what i was talking about yes. This range instant mechanic is broken and makes it way to easy to apply this high burst with very low cd.

I'm multiclass and you're a scourge main that's just qqing getting countered by sustainy builds, especially ele. what's your next argument? that I'm bronze and scourges and mesmers aren't braindead?

[bravan.3876]

@LazySummer.2568 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@LazySummer.2568 said:

@bravan.3876 said:I also can kill high dmg but no sustain builds when i just facetank all their burst.

This is how I know you have no idea what you're talking about and is just bitter towards ele for some reason. I'm pretty sure I can kill your kitten ele easily on a soulbeast or pp thief if you just facetank all my damage, and I don't even play those 2 classes. You also have yet to name something that isn't braindead. Anyways, no point in arguing with someone who argues by calling everything braindead and random personal anecdotes that probably aren't even real experiences, but made up scenarios through mental gymnastics.

Edit: if ele was that OP like you described btw, you would see it stacked everywhere and even get banned from tournaments like pre-nerf bunker chrono.

No sense in talking any further to someone calling me a lier. You are just an Ele main thinking the class is weak and hard to play only because it is not meta. Even tho being meta or not never said anything about how ez or broken something is. Ele don't need any buffs nor need any other bunker or bruiser build, they all need nerfs, some a bit more than Ele but Ele still too.

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

We can talk about nerfing it's instant cast stuff

That was exactly what i was talking about yes. This range instant mechanic is broken and makes it way to easy to apply this high burst with very low cd.

I'm multiclass and you're a scourge main that's just qqing getting countered by sustainy builds, especially ele. what's your next argument? that I'm bronze and scourges and mesmers aren't braindead?

Lmao i'm multiclass player too, can't you read? I also play Ele, Necro is only my most played class but wouldn't call it my main. Ofc scourge is braindead asf too. Mesmer depends on build. Condi/hybrid and bunker mesmer are for sure ez and lame. Bunker chrono is out of meta after last patch, still brainless playable and will be working in solo q for ppl not enough skill to stay alive with something else. Just like sword weaver.

[Razor.6392]

@bravan.3876 said:

@LazySummer.2568 said:

@bravan.3876 said:I also can kill high dmg but no sustain builds when i just facetank all their burst.

This is how I know you have no idea what you're talking about and is just bitter towards ele for some reason. I'm pretty sure I can kill your kitten ele easily on a soulbeast or pp thief if you just facetank all my damage, and I don't even play those 2 classes. You also have yet to name something that isn't braindead. Anyways, no point in arguing with someone who argues by calling everything braindead and random personal anecdotes that probably aren't even real experiences, but made up scenarios through mental gymnastics.

Edit: if ele was that OP like you described btw, you would see it stacked everywhere and even get banned from tournaments like pre-nerf bunker chrono.

No sense in talking any further to someone calling me a lier. You are just an Ele main thinking the class is weak and hard to play only because it is not meta. Even tho being meta or not never said anything about how ez or broken something is. Ele don't need any buffs nor need any other bunker or bruiser build, they all need nerfs, some a bit more than Ele but Ele still too.

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

We can talk about nerfing it's instant cast stuff

That was exactly what i was talking about yes. This range instant mechanic is broken and makes it way to easy to apply this high burst with very low cd.

So tell me, why is ele not meta? I guess we're all stupid and don't realize how strong ele is, right?

d/d, s/d, staff, warhorn eles are dead.

Tempest is a worse FB.

FA core ele is dead as a result of FA weaver nerfs.

FA weaver is a worse power mesmer or thief, because unlike those classes, it has zero disengage potential and less sustained damage.

Only sw/d can be somewhat viable, but it's still a worse point holder than spellbreaker while being 10x harder to play optimally. Why would anyone bother using it?

But sure, eles are sooo good! Even I dropped my ele dude.

[Razor.6392]

double post

[Josre.5924]

"Ele is fine": They have top damage in PvE. An average-at-best 'bruiser' build with Sw/D weaver. The "hit all the instant abilities" gimmick spike with fresh air builds. And every other build stuck in 2014 style-meta.

Thank goodness this profession has the lowest hp and armor, I don't know how anyone would deal with them if they had amulet choices, or more traitline freedom.

/s

[Math.5123]

@Razor.6392 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@LazySummer.2568 said:

@bravan.3876 said:I also can kill high dmg but no sustain builds when i just facetank all their burst.

This is how I know you have no idea what you're talking about and is just bitter towards ele for some reason. I'm pretty sure I can kill your kitten ele easily on a soulbeast or pp thief if you just facetank all my damage, and I don't even play those 2 classes. You also have yet to name something that isn't braindead. Anyways, no point in arguing with someone who argues by calling everything braindead and random personal anecdotes that probably aren't even real experiences, but made up scenarios through mental gymnastics.

Edit: if ele was that OP like you described btw, you would see it stacked everywhere and even get banned from tournaments like pre-nerf bunker chrono.

No sense in talking any further to someone calling me a lier. You are just an Ele main thinking the class is weak and hard to play only because it is not meta. Even tho being meta or not never said anything about how ez or broken something is. Ele don't need any buffs nor need any other bunker or bruiser build, they all need nerfs, some a bit more than Ele but Ele still too.

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

We can talk about nerfing it's instant cast stuff

That was exactly what i was talking about yes. This range instant mechanic is broken and makes it way to easy to apply this high burst with very low cd.

So tell me, why is ele not meta? I guess we're all stupid and don't realize how strong ele is, right?

d/d, s/d, staff, warhorn eles are dead.

Tempest is a worse FB.

FA core ele is dead as a result of FA weaver nerfs.

FA weaver is a worse power mesmer or thief, because unlike those classes, it has zero disengage potential and less sustained damage.

Only sw/d can be somewhat viable, but it's still a worse point holder than spellbreaker while being 10x harder to play optimally. Why would anyone bother using it?

But sure, eles are sooo good! Even I dropped my ele dude.

Crann won every duel in the mist Challenger tournament on ele. He beat pre nerfed chronomancers, spellbreakers and Holosmiths.