Vallun's Balance Change Suggestions for next Patch

[Stand The Wall.6987]

good stuff. ill add some of my own thoughts:

warriorrevenge counter - remove the resistanceburst mastery - remove adren gain, double damage from 7 to 14%brawlers recovery - 9 sec cd

holocrystal config - eclipse - one stack of stab and barrier on first hit onlyholo 2 - 2 to 5 secholo 3 - 6 to 8 secholo 4 - 10 to 15 secholo 5 - 15 to 20 secprime light beam - maybe halve the field duration from 10 to 5 sec

[Master Ketsu.4569]

An alternative buff/nerf to sword offhand is a partial revert of the rework. IE, give duelists preparation back while nerfing shackling wave damage by 10~20%. Could also change sword 5 into a short daze but then nerf the damage by 40%-%60.

And batman is right on sword 5 I have no idea why it gives fury. With full boon duration from herald+runes you can upkeep fury with just that skill alone.

Rev is nowhere near as underpowered as people in the forums think it is, but it lacks good defensive utility which is probably why it's considered the "worst class".

TL;DR of the whole thing is Rev needs better utility, and less damage. Right now it feels pigeonholed into randomly cheesing people 100-0 with PT and sword 4/5 combos.

[Noz.4650]

I'll speak from my own experience in plat 2/3 from the classes I know most.

Thief I think you're spot on. It would keep Infil Strike in check while not making it any less useful. Condi thief is just an abomination of game design and its core mechanics need to be rethought.

Revenant damage is actually ridiculous if left unchecked. Too many stacking damage modifiers + 25 might uptime. Deathstrike for 8k out of nowhere and autoattacks for nearly 3k with quickness on, that's almost unmatched pressure output. It can completely take over in the right games. But the counters it has are very hard counters, so some games your impact can be near 0.

I agree with the Blinding Dissipation internal CD for mirage but I'd say the burning damage on torch is a bit too high. 6-7 burning stacks out of stealth on top of everything else you have to cleanse can often just finish you off from half your HP if you're caught without nothing. Stunbreak on dodge should probably never be a thing in this game too.

Spellbreaker is pretty balanced as it is. It's a simple to read class with easy tells. Rampage is a bit too spammable but an ammo system wouldn't change anything. Most of the time you'll use it to get that 1 or 2 extra CC in + a Dash and go back to normal since it's pretty easy to completely negate its pressure and you don't get the Healing Signet passive.

Weaver is pretty close to being the best side node pusher because of its great sustain and damage output in long fights, but it lacks the mobility and chase of spellbreaker to truely rival it. But it's still a very strong spec at contesting side nodes.

You didn't mention soulbeast but I've been playing it with decent success in high plat and it's honestly a top 3 - if not the - highest skill ceiling spec right now imo. It's due to the crazy amount of offensive utility it brings to teamfights and skirmishes (2v2s and 2v1s). Most specs right now are very rotation based, but soulbeast is very reactive and opportunity based. Managing your stealth well is super key to the playstyle and can stall 1v2s for quite a while. I think people try to 1v1 too much with it and you have to go in and out of range/melee and stealth too much to make it worth contesting points. You're just not going to win close combat 1v1s vs spellbreakers, weavers, mirages, holos. You shine more with your offensive utility and quick burst in teamfights and skirmishes. I feel like it's a pretty solid spec really, it's just hard to play to its full potential (especially from behind) and other specs have an easier time having an impact on games.

[BeepBoopBop.5403]

@Arcaedus.7290 said:

@BeepBoopBop.5403 said:Lol revenant already getting called on for nerfs when it's barely coming back into relevance, that was fast. You know revenant has to trait fully glass (except condition clear trait in Invocation, every other trait choice is DPS) to get those numbers right?

Not sure why we need to tone down OH sword damage at all since they're pretty telegraphed moves and their sole purpose is burst damage. How about we fix sword 5 to actually hit most of the time then we can talk about nerfing it...

Sword 5 needs a fix but sword 4 is definitely not telegraphed.

Sword 4 is a 1/2 second cast, but Revenant does have a lot of quickness.

[BeepBoopBop.5403]

@Huskyboy.1053 said:

@BeepBoopBop.5403 said:Lol revenant already getting called on for nerfs when it's barely coming back into relevance, that was fast. You know revenant has to trait fully glass (except condition clear trait in Invocation, every other trait choice is DPS) to get those numbers right?

@thebatman.6250 Bry do you play full glass? I'm pretty sure most revs play Marauder in sPvP but I could be wrong.

Anyways Beep, Vallun is totally correct that rev has too much damage with 25 might stacks. I think tbh you're right that Sword 5 should be fixed so that it actually hits. However, Sword 4 does too much damage, Vallun is right about that. A balance patch can both nerf unnecessary damage and buff defensive stuff like what Vallun mentioned, it's not mutually exclusive.

I only said trait glass, not gear glass. No one takes Berserker.

With 25 might sword 4 hits like 8k on no toughness targets, how is that so unreasonable with 750 extra power and all of the build's damage modifiers?

I've always said that Incensed Response was a way over the top change to try to appease us after they removed Equilibrium. However, there is a trade off as it makes revenant further reliant on fury/might generation which also makes it more vulnerable to corrupts and strips. I do painfully agree that it needs a nerf because it is just too easy to camp Facet of Darkness.

[Chorazin.4107]

The problem with the mesmer changes is they target all mesmer builds, blinding dissipation, blurred frenzy, the only specific change for Mirage was the mirage cloak. So then the question becomes are all mesmer builds over performing? Or specifically condi mirage?

[Noz.4650]

@Chorazin.4107 said:The problem with the mesmer changes is they target all mesmer builds, blinding dissipation, blurred frenzy, the only specific change for Mirage was the mirage cloak. So then the question becomes are all mesmer builds over performing? Or specifically condi mirage?

I don't think nerfing Blinding Dissipation would be a huge hit to other builds though. Also maybe if Blurred Frenzy was a block instead of evade it could have some counter play, but I'm not really a mesmer player.

[Poelala.2830]

I want ele to do more damage and for their to be more damaging synergy with the specializations and weaver. I don’t want to spend another season where we still have no meta damaging builds and no viable specs at all. Simply bringing back tempest is not what we want. We want weaver to be good.

[Arheundel.6451]

@Poelala.2830 said:I want ele to do more damage and for their to be more damaging synergy with the specializations and weaver. I don’t want to spend another season where we still have no meta damaging builds and no viable specs at all. Simply bringing back tempest is not what we want. We want weaver to be good.

There is zero chance ele will ever receive worthy meta changes

[Marxx.5021]

@Vallun.2071For more than 3 years its beta testing pve class balance in pvp. Pvp changes have been always to late with the least effort possible to implement. The last point is what matters most it seems. Detailed balancing suggestions won't change anything as long as anet is not willing (anymore) to do more than just giving life support.

[IAmSole.2098]

Spinal shivers should be reworked aswell as glacial heart

[Arcaedus.7290]

@BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

@Arcaedus.7290 said:

@BeepBoopBop.5403 said:Lol revenant already getting called on for nerfs when it's barely coming back into relevance, that was fast. You know revenant has to trait fully glass (except condition clear trait in Invocation, every other trait choice is DPS) to get those numbers right?

Not sure why we need to tone down OH sword damage at all since they're pretty telegraphed moves and their sole purpose is burst damage. How about we fix sword 5 to actually hit most of the time then we can talk about nerfing it...

Sword 5 needs a fix but sword 4 is definitely not telegraphed.

Sword 4 is a 1/2 second cast, but Revenant does have a lot of quickness.

It's a 1/2 second cast and you theoretically can reflexively dodge it but it's rather unlikely. Fact is, most people have trouble reflexively avoiding anything faster than 3/4s cast time. In fighting games where the vast majority of everything comes out in like 0.1 to 0.5 seconds, it's a matter of knowing what comes next and making hard reads. It's the same way with fighting something fast-paced and high damage like s/s rev. Their only skill you can really laugh at is sword 5 which is a balance issue, but sword 4 carries sword offhand so hard that it makes up for sword 5.

I think reworking sword 5 into an effective damage dealer followed by a damage nerf to sword 4 is more than fair.

[Huskyboy.1053]

@Arcaedus.7290 said:

@BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

@Arcaedus.7290 said:

@BeepBoopBop.5403 said:Lol revenant already getting called on for nerfs when it's barely coming back into relevance, that was fast. You know revenant has to trait fully glass (except condition clear trait in Invocation, every other trait choice is DPS) to get those numbers right?

Not sure why we need to tone down OH sword damage at all since they're pretty telegraphed moves and their sole purpose is burst damage. How about we fix sword 5 to actually hit most of the time then we can talk about nerfing it...

Sword 5 needs a fix but sword 4 is definitely not telegraphed.

Sword 4 is a 1/2 second cast, but Revenant does have a lot of quickness.

It's a 1/2 second cast and you theoretically can reflexively dodge it but it's rather unlikely. Fact is, most people have trouble reflexively avoiding anything faster than 3/4s cast time. In fighting games where the vast majority of everything comes out in like 0.1 to 0.5 seconds, it's a matter of knowing what comes next and making hard reads. It's the same way with fighting something fast-paced and high damage like s/s rev. Their only skill you can really laugh at is sword 5 which is a balance issue, but sword 4 carries sword offhand so hard that it makes up for sword 5.

I think reworking sword 5 into an effective damage dealer followed by a damage nerf to sword 4 is more than fair.

Sword 5 is also an unconditional teleport (unlike Axe 4 which requires you to actually hit your target in order to teleport), so even if the strike misses then you still get value out of it.

[Kathul.1280]

@Poelala.2830 said:I want ele to do more damage and for their to be more damaging synergy with the specializations and weaver. I don’t want to spend another season where we still have no meta damaging builds and no viable specs at all. Simply bringing back tempest is not what we want. We want weaver to be good.

I love to play my Ele as well in PvP. But only in unranked lol. With a good team in ranked My core Ele staff build can wreck stuff, but, if it's me and all other bruisers well, just run in a circle and hope a teammate can make it to help ya out soon. Sw/d weaver CAN be effective-ish Cellofrag has videos and all that but in my experience noone is scared of any form of Ele right now in ranked. Swapped to my Firebrand and I climb the board, try it with my Ele and plummet.

Theif is fine really, it is an awareness issue.

All builds should be packing plenty of condi cleanse no matter the matchup.

See a spellbreaker bubble, just stand back a couple steps and watch for your time to evade or dodge.

Scourge has been toned down, and I am seeing alot of reapers ( which when played well is good, but only in a big mid team fight )

Mesmer is easy to counter. Bring your condi cleanse, which you should have anyway, and have some form of AoE .

Rev, well, only see a handful of good ones so far.

the list obviously goes on.

What I think most people would like to see is when they go into a match then realize the Gaurdian is a dragonhunter or core they don't just go ahead and toss a gg out there. The Meta is really focused now on certain builds doing very specific roles. We may not have the Holy Trinity, but in ranked we definitely have very specific roles regardless if it's Dps/healer/tank. Must be hard to balance when everyone wants to be the Holy Trinity all in one profession.

[Rym.1469]

Not sure about Axe OH being more fun to use than Sword OH on power revenant. Axe OH leans more towards condition builds and OH sword towards power builds so it is as it should be. If anything, I'd rather buff the Shield, as it's fallen off use completly.

Personally, I'd wait with cutting down OH sword damage till (warranted) might uptime nerfs are there and tested.As for the suggested Might nerfs, I'm all for it. Nefarious Momentum has some alternative cost as other traits in tier are competitive, but Incensed Response is a rather silly trait, granted how broken it's relation with Glint is. Cutting the might from this trait is something, but ideally I'd also want to see some competitive trait in the same tier so IResponse isn't the only option.

As a bonus, I'll chip in and say that the extreme might uptime isn't only revenant's problem - it's a game-wide problem. Sure, with IR and Facet of Darkness it's silly because pulsing fury almost caps you on it by standing afk in combat (sic!). But Herald's always had 20+ might in almost every meta build, though with more effort - it's how this elite spec has been from it's inception.

Aside from that, I'd just remove the ability to dodge in stun from Mirage, period. Not out of spite, but it's something that shouldn't exist in any way, shape or form, it negates some very core concepts of action combat system. Mirage cloak is powerful enough without this, allowing for almost unstoppable safe stomps with a simple dodge and full damage in dodge.

[Chuck.2864]

Axe is a hybrid offhand, not really pure condi. It has good power damage but more importantly it has great offensive utility for power Herald - unblockable damage and a gap closer on 4, hard CC on 5.

But yes, sword 4 is a bit overtuned. I'd take a nerf to it's damage in return for -A. Deathstrike being reworked. Remove the follow up strike that no one can land consistently, roll like 50% of it's damage into the initial strike. Done.

B. Shield rework. It's time, Anet. No other block skills off the top of my head root you. The healing is so pathetic (at least with no Healing power) that no one ever uses it for the heal, so it's not a worthwhile tradeoff. Warrior shield block is so, so much better by comparison that it's actually laughable and a bit unfair.

Shield 4 also needs help, get rid of the Protection and give it condi cleanse. Alternatively, give it damage like Guardian shield 4 if you insist on keeping Power Rev the most hard countered class in the game and have it be helpless against conditions.

[ChartFish.1308]

Does this mean ranger is alright because it wasn't even mentioned :')?

[Eddbopkins.2630]

Vallun.....i need ja man...make more great content please. You last thf video was entetaining and informative.

[Vallun.2071]

by the way the issue with mesmer is not ellusive mind, its mirage cloak period. the stun break isnt even that much of a problem when you cant even stun them

[EpicTurtle.8571]

@Vallun.2071 said:by the way the issue with mesmer is not ellusive mind, its mirage cloak period. the stun break isnt even that much of a problem when you cant even stun them

'The issue isn't the stun break it's that they dodged the stun' Am I reading that right?

[Patrick.2987]

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:

@Vallun.2071 said:by the way the issue with mesmer is not ellusive mind, its mirage cloak period. the stun break isnt even that much of a problem when you cant even stun them

'The issue isn't the stun break it's that they dodged the stun break' Am I reading that right?

No competent player needs the stunbreak cause u can evade the cc with all your defensives. Mirrors, evades with vigor, blurr and invuln, blinks, aegis and mobility + maybe some stealth is what makes it hard to kill. EM just carries people failing the dodge before cc lands and supports bad play.

[bravan.3876]

The issue is that he doesn't use energy sigils on both weaponsets and adventure rune on his onebutton spam hard to play pp deadeye during he whines about every other class he meets in pvp, otherwise he would be unstunnable too.

[EpicTurtle.8571]

@Patrick.2987 said:

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:

@Vallun.2071 said:by the way the issue with mesmer is not ellusive mind, its mirage cloak period. the stun break isnt even that much of a problem when you cant even stun them

'The issue isn't the stun break it's that they dodged the stun break' Am I reading that right?

No competent player needs the stunbreak cause u can evade the cc with all your defensives. Mirrors, evades with vigor, blurr and invuln, blinks, aegis and mobility + maybe some stealth is what makes it hard to kill. EM just carries people failing the dodge before cc lands and supports bad play.

So any equally competent player is just going to fire all of their cc at that simultaneously too right?

[omgdracula.6345]

@Nath Forge Tempete.1645 said:While I most agree with what you've said on the first classes (even if I play revenant and i feel the frustration of having no support from your team) I'm kinda sad you didn't develop the ele part more that than Haha

But maybe it's too hard to apprehend

@Ajaxx.3157 said:Who???????

I know right ? Ppl that feels more important that they really are ? Especially a thief PLayer (KAPPA)

Long live the king Ajaxx !

Long live whooo?

[Swagg.9236]

All of these are just vague suggestions which would result in the same kind of meta shuffling that this game has seen since its inception.