Which profession are players most hostile towards?

[Teratus.2859]

PvE.. can't say there is a reason to hate any class..PvP/WvW I don't care for Mesmers and Thieves simply because of their abuse of (cheap)stealth mechanics and how easy it is for them to get cheap kills.

I've mained a Longbow Ranger since Gw2 launched so I laugh at OP's comments regarding us as useless noob players.I guess he doesn't quite understand how effective the companion system is when it comes to survival nor what the strengths of the Longbow are.Rangers can achieve very high survivability as a Glass cannon simply by manipulating aggro and swapping between Range and Melee when opportune.And I don't use Bears either :PI use the Jungle Stalker and Smokescale if you must know :) And prior to HoT the Jaguar.

My main LB Ranger has never once been elite spec'd either.. in fact the only changes made to his build since the current 3 traitline system was put in place are the swapping of Jaguar for the Smoke Scale and swapping his secondary weapon set from Sword/Axe to Sword Warhorn.Besides those I've been running the same build for years in every area of the game besides raids.

[Teratus.2859]

@Dami.5046 said:nah Ranger.one guy wanted to do a bounty and said 'rangers need not apply'so i blocked them. Don't need that before my morning coffee.

Lmao I've seen that before too so I took his bounty and soloed it before he got there xD

[Teratus.2859]

@BunjiKugashira.9754 said:For me it's ranger.Every profession can be played good and I would never kick someone for their profession before giving them a chance.However every profession can also be played bad and while it's easy to ignore most badly played professions and just silently carry them, a bad ranger can really ruin your day. A bad ranger is actually worse than leaving the spot free.

Elaborate?I know Rangers can really annoy some people with their point blank shot knockback but I don't see how a bad player can utterly ruin your day..

[Teratus.2859]

@Westenev.5289 said:In PvE at least, I despise playing with Necro's - usually to the point where I audably groan when I see one join the party. More often than not, people who play Necro play it because of the sheer tankyness, so you often have to play around them and the minions they set loose on every mob.

Minion Masters are not always tanks.. you can run a glass canon MM and get very good damage from it..I prefer Soldier stats myself.. very tanky wihout crippling damage.. more than enough to solo just about anything in the PvE game.

[Westenev.5289]

@Teratus.2859 said:

@"Westenev.5289" said:In PvE at least, I despise playing with Necro's - usually to the point where I audably groan when I see one join the party. More often than not, people who play Necro play it because of the sheer tankyness, so you often have to play around them and the minions they set loose on every mob.

Minion Masters are not always tanks.. you can run a glass canon MM and get very good damage from it..I prefer Soldier stats myself.. very tanky wihout crippling damage.. more than enough to solo just about anything in the PvE game.

The problem isn't their damage, but that the Necromancer's minions spread out the mobs, or hold the boss in a disadvantageous position. Plus Necromancer's tend to be played by players who tend to facetank everything, and tend to be the sort to blame the party for "noob" tactics like skipping, stacking or stealth. They are also the most likely class to break stealth in dungeons, since many of them don't know that their warhorn and scourge swiftness spells are actually attacks.

Not all necro's are like this, but the moment a necro starts summoning minions, that sets off the warning bells for me.

[Dami.5046]

I honesty don't care what people think of me or the class I play.How sad that people have to forge an opinion because they are worried what others will do or say.No class should be made to feel noob, unwanted or useless.

[BunjiKugashira.9754]

@Teratus.2859 said:

@BunjiKugashira.9754 said:For me it's ranger.Every profession can be played good and I would never kick someone for their profession before giving them a chance.However every profession can also be played bad and while it's easy to ignore most badly played professions and just silently carry them, a bad ranger can really ruin your day. A bad ranger is actually worse than leaving the spot free.

Elaborate?I know Rangers can really annoy some people with their point blank shot knockback but I don't see how a bad player can utterly ruin your day..

In open world it's their point blank shot. When you've stacked 2 or 3 long lasting aoes directly under a veteran mob and the veteran suddenly leaves the aoe circles, it usually doesn't take long for a pet to trudge right after it. Somehow rangers seem to believe that the damage bonus they get from auto-attacking at max range is totally worth knocking a mob out of aoes or another player's melee range.

Now I haven't had any bad rangers in raids yet (mostly because I don't pug), but in dungeons a bad ranger is painfully obvious. The mobs are spread all over the room instead of gathering in melee range for a quick kill? Guess who's standing in full line of sight of all ranged mobs happily pew-pewing at them. Because bows deal more damage at range. The ranger who is neither specced for dps nor shows proficiency in anything resembling a dps rotation claims his insignificant dps increase is more important than what 4 other people could do!

Most of what @Westenev.5289 mentioned about necromancers also applies to rangers. The only difference is that the necro has to actively pick minion skills. If you have a ranger in your group, there's a 100% chance he's bringing his stupid pet.

[Ryouzanpaku.1273]

In my experience in WvW zerg there are many commanders who autokick any Ranger & Thief sub classes.
(IMHO it is quite stupid, especially because when I go to WvW with 100% selfish power Mirage build no one gives a crap and I am well welcomed in zerg.....)

[reddie.5861]

@Ryouzanpaku.1273 said:In my experience in WvW zerg there are many commanders who autokick any Ranger & Thief sub classes.

(IMHO it is quite stupid, especially because when I go to WvW with 100% selfish power Mirage build no one gives a crap and I am well welcomed in zerg.....)

xD, kicking a thief is bit beyond me anyway staff thief in proper group is dangerous if u ask me.i mean i have absolutely no problem staying alive on thief in blob fights as im pretty much on perma dodge + i blast all shit on ground so with all guards around i constantly blast healing fields.

but nope thief bad cant be in WvW thus why i barely help out these blob players nowadays i just watch em getting picked off by enemy thiefs or w/e :D

[Westenev.5289]

@BunjiKugashira.9754 said:Most of what @Westenev.5289 mentioned about necromancers also applies to rangers. The only difference is that the necro has to actively pick minion skills. If you have a ranger in your group, there's a 100% chance he's bringing his stupid pet.

Rangers can control their pets, and generally (if you're polite), you'll find they're making an honest mistake. Pets are hard to control if you're not paying attention - minions can't be controlled without running away from the fight, and what necromancer runs from a fight?

But, yeah. That's the reason why I don't mind Rangers so much.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

"The classes that beats my main!"

[Lily.1935]

Funny. I've never seen "Thieves and mesmers will be Kicked" or "Focus the thief or mesmer". I have seen "Necros will be kicked" and "Focus the necro" though.

[Teratus.2859]

@"Westenev.5289" said:The problem isn't their damage, but that the Necromancer's minions spread out the mobs, or hold the boss in a disadvantageous position. Plus Necromancer's tend to be played by players who tend to facetank everything, and tend to be the sort to blame the party for "noob" tactics like skipping, stacking or stealth. They are also the most likely class to break stealth in dungeons, since many of them don't know that their warhorn and scourge swiftness spells are actually attacks.

Not all necro's are like this, but the moment a necro starts summoning minions, that sets off the warning bells for me.

I've not played with many other MM's so I can't say I see those problems much.From my experience most enemies tend to ignore my minions and focus direcly on me or other players instead (unless I intentioanlly start combat with a minion skill).. that said manipulating aggro is something I as a MM but also a Ranger main am experienced with and actively focus on while playing.

I do enjoy facetanking things but not at the cost of the team.. if anything stacking is highly advantageous for me since my MM build isn't just a tank it's also a healer and a focused reviver.. so it's a lot easier to keep people alive when they're right at my feet.The only problem i've had with skipping though is that some people don't understand the concept of a decoy.. I tell people to run while I tank the aggro but they don't listen and try to jump in and fight instead.. That's hardly my fault though when they die, I did tell them to run while I give them an opening to do so.

[Teratus.2859]

@BunjiKugashira.9754 said:

In open world it's their point blank shot. When you've stacked 2 or 3 long lasting aoes directly under a veteran mob and the veteran suddenly leaves the aoe circles, it usually doesn't take long for a pet to trudge right after it. Somehow rangers seem to believe that the damage bonus they get from auto-attacking at max range is totally worth knocking a mob out of aoes or another player's melee range.

Now I haven't had any bad rangers in raids yet (mostly because I don't pug), but in dungeons a bad ranger is painfully obvious. The mobs are spread all over the room instead of gathering in melee range for a quick kill? Guess who's standing in full line of sight of all ranged mobs happily pew-pewing at them. Because bows deal more damage at range. The ranger who is neither specced for dps nor shows proficiency in anything resembling a dps rotation claims his insignificant dps increase is more important than what 4 other people could do!

Most of what @Westenev.5289 mentioned about necromancers also applies to rangers. The only difference is that the necro has to actively pick minion skills. If you have a ranger in your group, there's a 100% chance he's bringing his stupid pet.

I see.Yeah those are fair criticisms.I'm all too familiar with the point blank shot one as well as having done it myself a many times albiet not intentionally.When communication with the Ranger doesn't exist (no discord etc) it's very easy for the Ranger to fail to notice AoE setup and knock an enemy out of it.. from personal experience I've often done that while my intent being an interupt not to screw up someone elses burst attack or AoE.I can understand how annoying that is though having been on the recieving end of it as well and wasting my Hundred blades etcThat said I usually save my PBS for breakbars when playing group content although while running around openly I use it for interupts, knockback (occasionally into someones AoE) and general lulz which is the most common time I screw up some random guys attack because when fighting something alone I'm just not expecting some random to jump in every time I use it lol

The bow range dmg increase is definitely not worth sacrificing a good might stack for.. no experienced Ranger player would deny that.The only advantage I know for a LB Ranger not to stack in melee range is to take advantage of a piercing burst.This is something I think non Ranger players either ignore or are unaware of..The bulk of a Rangers longbow damage doesn't come from the range dmg mechanic it comes from careful positioning and piercing arrows.Longbows single target DPS isn't that great we all know that.. and a Ranger is far better off in Melee range stack with a sword against a single target.However the ability to multiply their Barrage/Rapid fire combo damage by 5 accross 5 different enemies is absolutely worth breaking away for.Imo when Rangers can pull that combo off on 5 enemies the combined damage can greatly exceed any other classes single AoE damage with exception to probably epidemic.That said it's tricky to pull off and most of the time the Ranger won't max out the damage due to an enemy breaking away or dying.. so it's a gambit.

This is a mechanic I play with a lot so I am very familiar with how important my positioning is when i'm aiming to do a huge burst of AoE damage to multiple enemies.due to hitbox locations and enemy size being in melee range with a longbow is utterly crippling to this mechanic.. half the time your arrows are going to be aimed stright up in the air at a single enemy so the Ranger must break away to get his arrow trajectory to line up with multiple enemies or he's just wasting his highest dps attack.But this is all highly situational and in all honesty I don't know many Ranger players who actively incorporate this damage method into their playstyles.

As for the pet though.. pet control is a core part of the Ranger class (an OP one at that when used right) and far too many players simply ignore it.I did too for a long time thus earning my main pet the name Leeroy as he got me and my group killed many times in my noobish days XDIt's really not hard to control the pet though.. I really like playing with enemy aggro and a big part of that is manipulating the pet to take it.. for solo play this has allowed me to easily solo some dungeons with a glass Ranger as well as numerous group events in the open world and bounties.What the Ranger looses in overall stats he makes up for in his pet.. simply letting your pet run wild and ignoring it is a really bad way to play a Ranger.

[Teratus.2859]

@Westenev.5289 said:

@BunjiKugashira.9754 said:Most of what @Westenev.5289 mentioned about necromancers also applies to rangers. The only difference is that the necro has to actively pick minion skills. If you have a ranger in your group, there's a 100% chance he's bringing his stupid pet.

Rangers can control their pets, and generally (if you're polite), you'll find they're making an honest mistake. Pets are hard to control if you're not paying attention - minions can't be controlled without running away from the fight, and what necromancer runs from a fight?

But, yeah. That's the reason why I don't mind Rangers so much.

Necros can actually control their minions... to an extent but not to the level a Ranger can control their pet.Rangers naturally get the attack, come back, aggressive, passive etc commands where as Necros have nothing like that to work with.That said the minions will always attack the Necromancers priority target so long as the Necromancer actively attacks it or orders a minion to via skill.Necromancers can use this to manipulate their minons position.

It's definitely a tricky thing to work with and i've long supported the idea of adding a command for minions to break combat like the Rangers come back F3 skill.However it's important to note that the priority target doesn't need to take damage to force the minions attention..The Necro can simpley target a distant enemy and swing their weapon around in the air hitting nothing or use a minion skill and the whole group of minions will disengage their current target and swarm the new one.

It's not perfect and it can be a pain to work with but a skilled Minion Master will often take advantage of it to minimize enemy spredout and other common minion problems.

[Buran.3796]

@"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:"The classes that beats my main!"

Nah, every class beats my main, only a few of them uses stealth, which is the strongest skill in the game in the right hands.

[Belishine.7493]

i will say this i find mes and rangers and thiefs hated prity evenly in this game. now mes is mainly for the wvw/ pvp seance. ranger and thief are just hated in all game modes becouse of thief doing stealth and only being ok at the job of dps and ranger becouse the pet makes players rage for no reson even if the ranger knows whats going on and they still get hate. i find when i play my ranger i get kicked more becouse i am a support class and not supper strong in dps but i loss the dps and bost everyone in the part by like 10% to i think 20% so why they hated its becouse of the dps output the dont add. this is all from what i have experianced in gw2.

[Lily.1935]

The necromancer is constantly under fire for nerfs. I think players just don't like playing against a debuffer. Necromancer's used to be quite proficient at shredding boons, Now they're still decent at it but don't compare to warrior Gags. They apply a wide range of conditions which players don't like and always think they're losing if they have even 1 condition on them. So they constantly get over nerfed by the devs. Their damage gets cut to ribbons, which reaper for example never had great damage but their chill got cut down and they sat in the back seat for ages because no one likes fighting Debuffers. Scourge had too much control with Shades being very placeble and with highly spammable crippling so their damage was nerfed to balance out the real problem which was the Crippling and AoE coverage. Note: The damage on scourge was never the problem! It was always the coverage and Crippling! But now all they've got is the crippling so they can be a wet noodle again! But the necromancer can't seem to have any sort of significant damage or support because they have the worst mechanic in the game, Shroud. But even when they drop shroud they're still not allowed to have any sort of support or damage because... uh... I'm not really sure.

The excuses Arena Net seems to give for why Necromancer isn't allowed to be good seems flimsy to me. Usually developers can convince me of their decisions and I can understand why they made specific changes, but Necromancer is always a loss to me. Their reasoning always seems to be counterable with another system in the game that's similar that just works far better! lets give some examples of really really bad changes and claims arena net have done to the necromancer that didn't result in anything good.

• Axe Auto: For some reason this needed to be nerfed because you could animation cancel it. and their reasoning behind it was because it wasn't a projectile and at ranged. But Mesmer greatsword auto had the same thing going on for it and the argument of Vuln stacking was weak as well since a majority of classes could stack 25 without an issue. So the change seemed pointless at the time and is still questionable especially considering the female auto animation is still broken to this day. If I wanted to paddle someone, well... I wouldn't be playing GW2.
• Dark Path: For some reason this is a slow moving projectile where as in the beta it was a ground teleport. I think we all know which one is better. But the issue is that its not very good for pursuit, you can't escape with it and it puts you in melee range with death shroud which doesn't want to be in melee range. Why did they make such a drastic change to it? Necromancer was considered powerful in the Beta, but people were already seeing holes in its armor at that point, why punch another hole in their armor? This doesn't make any sense especially considering the necromancer has very little access to stability.
• The necromancer is an attrition profession: Anyone who plays the necromancer for an extended period of time knows that this is absolute nonsense! The claim that a resourced based profession with diminishing returns on their mechanic is an attrition profession is really trying to pull a fast one on you. If you believe this I have some lovely snake oil that will cure all sicknesses you'd be interested in. But lets examine what the mechanic does. Life force requires death or being heavily offensive to generate. The profession needs to run into battle with nothing and fight without defenses to finally be able to get their defenses up. Once they do its chipped and chewed away. A profession that can outlast the necromancer will win, and those that can't can run away and antagonize them until their resources are burnt out. This is the exact opposite of an attrition profession.
• Jagged horrors were changed to have a life span: If these little things weren't bad enough to begin with, Jagged horrors were nerfed because of the necromancer's unintentional raid combo of using Lich form on a condi build to spawn dozens of jagged horrors all dealing bleeding damage. How did Arena net fix this? By removing the bleeding off jagged horrors still offering MMs a build they can at least enjoy? NOOOOOO! Giving them a 30 second life span so that in practice you can only have 1 up at a time with Death nova making the once decent elite of Lich form useless and minion master builds used only by the greenest of players.
• Jagged horrors were replaced on Lich form: So Arena net later replaced jagged horrors on lich form with unstable horrors. These horrors would explode after a while but did they return jagged horrors to their previous version? NOPE! Why would they do that? The problem that made them over powered in the first place doesn't have the minion skill anymore, so surely they can regain their old function? Nope! they remain the same and extra ordinarily bad.
• Necromancers aren't allowed damage or support because they have two health bars: So necromancer isn't allowed to function in group content is what this is saying. The profession that was supposed to be the home of monks and Necromancers from GW1 caters to neither because they need to be an HP tank, something no one asked for. But That isn't even a good argument. Mesmers can blur themselves for what seems like Minutes then go stealth, Thieves can escape from just about everything, warriors have high health, toughness and can shrug off conditions and damage far easier than necromancer, elementalist can make themselves almost immune to damage, revenant has dozens of evade frames and two healing skills, so on and so on. So this argument is super flimsy to me. A good player with a necromancer hits a hard cap on what they can do. A good mesmer play's cap is far beyond the necromancer's and has higher defensive potential. And each of those professions is allowed to provide significant support for the party and have significant damage. So this argument that necromancer isn't allowed to because of death shroud? If you truly believe that arena net, then you should remove the mechanic from the game. Because a mechanic that punishes the player for wanting to aid their friends shouldn't be a part of a highly cooperative game like this.
• You can't heal in death shroud without specific traits: I guess anet's reason is this would make them too tanky. But its so frustrating for the healers in the party playing with them. And especially since players use shroud as a panic button. Which means rather than an ally healing the necromancer when they need it most, the player panics and can't be healed and suddenly dies when they get out of shroud because of how backwards the mechanic is. I've seen this happen so much and I spent so much time learning to avoid being in shroud for any extended period of time because of how anti party it is. If the tankiness is a problem, cut the passive damage reduction from shroud. Honestly, having more active defenses would be far better for us.
• You can't use Utility in shroud: Backwards design of shroud means you don't get access to your utility. Why? Because... um... I honestly couldn't tell you. It makes the necromancer so painfully predictable that you see them enter shroud you could walk them right off the cliff with how easy they are to control in this situation. Their options are so limited, so telegraphed that all shroud really does is stall. Except on reaper, but it burns so quickly so it doesn't matter as much. Even then, reaper's shroud is laughably easy to predict and control.
• Nerf everything around scourge but the actual problem: I mentioned it before, that the scourge had its shade duration nerfed, the damage nerfed, everything except the other piece to the puzzle that was causing the problem in the first place. The crippling. The crippling provided an extra cover condition and extended the time foes would be in your aoe Fields by 50%. Removing crippling could have been close to a 33% damage or even 66% reduction all on its own. But Anet would rather punish the necromancer for having reliable damage than touch one of two conditions they should have never had on the shade abilities. Spam able crippling or chill at range? Arena net, YOU HAD A RULE ABOUT THIS! And you still went ahead and added it to the shade abilities and nerved everything else besides the crippling!
• Sand Savant: Sand Savant was a mistake. It should have never been a trait that increased damage radius. It was too oppressive on top of crippling with its massive coverage and high DPS output. If arena net made sand savant provide buffs to allies rather than conditions to enemies this could have prevented it from running a muck in PvP and somewhat WvW, but arena net continued to nerf everything around it and eventually it, but didn't change that it was required. Now Scourge is a wet noodle but still required in zergs, they just moved to power because the crippling is still keeping suckers in the massive aoe field.
• Removing the Putrid Curse boon corrupt: For a skill that requires a massive investment to achieve this really wasn't as big a deal as arena net thinks. And if it was, than why does the mesmer still have boon strip on their sword auto attack? Necromancers already have to justify their boon corrupts and with mesmer just removing them more effectively, and easier with far far less effort I don't understand this change. Why remove one but not both? Why keep the one that can remove all boons in short work, but remove the one that requires a lot of personal investment from the player?
• Why was Blood is power given Charges?: Seriously? why not just drop its cool down and up its damage? Why give it two changes which doesn't do much in terms of a damage increase. Is it funny the necromancer can now kill themselves with just one skill for very little benefit? Are you trying to tell us something arena net?

I could honestly keep going. I could. There is so much more that is just wrong with anet's decision making when it comes to necromancer, I could be here all day listing things that make NO FREAKIN SENSE in terms of their balance. But how has this translated into the game? Half the necromancer community hates the most of their own class, players get locked into the necromancer because they try it first and have to work twice as hard to learn something else because necromancer taught them bad habits, Part of the community seems to think of necromancers as a death knight WHEN THAT WAS NEVER THEIR DESIGN IN THE FIRST PLACE, necromancer are frequently focus fired in PvP as an easy kill, players have put up signs saying "Necromancer's will be kicked", the glaring issues the community can see for miles and miles goes unfixed for half a decade and the necromancer community is so untrusting of anything the devs say about it that some have gone as far as saying that specific devs should be fired!(Note I never said that, because that's just really cruel and mean.) But the community is so beyond frustrated that we've lost a good 80% of the voices in the community to other games because of how broken the situation is for necromancer.

So you asked. Which profession is the community most hostile towards? Necromancer. Hands down, even necromancer players are extremely hostile toward necromancers.

[TotallyNotJazzie.1493]

@"Lily.1935" said:The necromancer is constantly under fire for nerfs. I think players just don't like playing against a debuffer. Necromancer's used to be quite proficient at shredding boons, Now they're still decent at it but don't compare to warrior Gags. They apply a wide range of conditions which players don't like and always think they're losing if they have even 1 condition on them. So they constantly get over nerfed by the devs. Their damage gets cut to ribbons, which reaper for example never had great damage but their chill got cut down and they sat in the back seat for ages because no one likes fighting Debuffers. Scourge had too much control with Shades being very placeble and with highly spammable crippling so their damage was nerfed to balance out the real problem which was the Crippling and AoE coverage. Note: The damage on scourge was never the problem! It was always the coverage and Crippling! But now all they've got is the crippling so they can be a wet noodle again! But the necromancer can't seem to have any sort of significant damage or support because they have the worst mechanic in the game, Shroud. But even when they drop shroud they're still not allowed to have any sort of support or damage because... uh... I'm not really sure.

The excuses Arena Net seems to give for why Necromancer isn't allowed to be good seems flimsy to me. Usually developers can convince me of their decisions and I can understand why they made specific changes, but Necromancer is always a loss to me. Their reasoning always seems to be counterable with another system in the game that's similar that just works far better! lets give some examples of really really bad changes and claims arena net have done to the necromancer that didn't result in anything good.

• Axe Auto: For some reason this needed to be nerfed because you could animation cancel it. and their reasoning behind it was because it wasn't a projectile and at ranged. But Mesmer greatsword auto had the same thing going on for it and the argument of Vuln stacking was weak as well since a majority of classes could stack 25 without an issue. So the change seemed pointless at the time and is still questionable especially considering the female auto animation is still broken to this day. If I wanted to paddle someone, well... I wouldn't be playing GW2.
• Dark Path: For some reason this is a slow moving projectile where as in the beta it was a ground teleport. I think we all know which one is better. But the issue is that its not very good for pursuit, you can't escape with it and it puts you in melee range with death shroud which doesn't want to be in melee range. Why did they make such a drastic change to it? Necromancer was considered powerful in the Beta, but people were already seeing holes in its armor at that point, why punch another hole in their armor? This doesn't make any sense especially considering the necromancer has very little access to stability.
• The necromancer is an attrition profession: Anyone who plays the necromancer for an extended period of time knows that this is absolute nonsense! The claim that a resourced based profession with diminishing returns on their mechanic is an attrition profession is really trying to pull a fast one on you. If you believe this I have some lovely snake oil that will cure all sicknesses you'd be interested in. But lets examine what the mechanic does. Life force requires death or being heavily offensive to generate. The profession needs to run into battle with nothing and fight without defenses to finally be able to get their defenses up. Once they do its chipped and chewed away. A profession that can outlast the necromancer will win, and those that can't can run away and antagonize them until their resources are burnt out. This is the exact opposite of an attrition profession.
• Jagged horrors were changed to have a life span: If these little things weren't bad enough to begin with, Jagged horrors were nerfed because of the necromancer's unintentional raid combo of using Lich form on a condi build to spawn dozens of jagged horrors all dealing bleeding damage. How did Arena net fix this? By removing the bleeding off jagged horrors still offering MMs a build they can at least enjoy? NOOOOOO! Giving them a 30 second life span so that in practice you can only have 1 up at a time with Death nova making the once decent elite of Lich form useless and minion master builds used only by the greenest of players.
• Jagged horrors were replaced on Lich form: So Arena net later replaced jagged horrors on lich form with unstable horrors. These horrors would explode after a while but did they return jagged horrors to their previous version? NOPE! Why would they do that? The problem that made them over powered in the first place doesn't have the minion skill anymore, so surely they can regain their old function? Nope! they remain the same and extra ordinarily bad.
• Necromancers aren't allowed damage or support because they have two health bars: So necromancer isn't allowed to function in group content is what this is saying. The profession that was supposed to be the home of monks and Necromancers from GW1 caters to neither because they need to be an HP tank, something no one asked for. But That isn't even a good argument. Mesmers can blur themselves for what seems like Minutes then go stealth, Thieves can escape from just about everything, warriors have high health, toughness and can shrug off conditions and damage far easier than necromancer, elementalist can make themselves almost immune to damage, revenant has dozens of evade frames and two healing skills, so on and so on. So this argument is super flimsy to me. A good player with a necromancer hits a hard cap on what they can do. A good mesmer play's cap is far beyond the necromancer's and has higher defensive potential. And each of those professions is allowed to provide significant support for the party and have significant damage. So this argument that necromancer isn't allowed to because of death shroud? If you truly believe that arena net, then you should remove the mechanic from the game. Because a mechanic that punishes the player for wanting to aid their friends shouldn't be a part of a highly cooperative game like this.
• You can't heal in death shroud without specific traits: I guess anet's reason is this would make them too tanky. But its so frustrating for the healers in the party playing with them. And especially since players use shroud as a panic button. Which means rather than an ally healing the necromancer when they need it most, the player panics and can't be healed and suddenly dies when they get out of shroud because of how backwards the mechanic is. I've seen this happen so much and I spent so much time learning to avoid being in shroud for any extended period of time because of how anti party it is. If the tankiness is a problem, cut the passive damage reduction from shroud. Honestly, having more active defenses would be far better for us.
• You can't use Utility in shroud: Backwards design of shroud means you don't get access to your utility. Why? Because... um... I honestly couldn't tell you. It makes the necromancer so painfully predictable that you see them enter shroud you could walk them right off the cliff with how easy they are to control in this situation. Their options are so limited, so telegraphed that all shroud really does is stall. Except on reaper, but it burns so quickly so it doesn't matter as much. Even then, reaper's shroud is laughably easy to predict and control.
• Nerf everything around scourge but the actual problem: I mentioned it before, that the scourge had its shade duration nerfed, the damage nerfed, everything except the other piece to the puzzle that was causing the problem in the first place. The crippling. The crippling provided an extra cover condition and extended the time foes would be in your aoe Fields by 50%. Removing crippling could have been close to a 33% damage or even 66% reduction all on its own. But Anet would rather punish the necromancer for having reliable damage than touch one of two conditions they should have never had on the shade abilities. Spam able crippling or chill at range? Arena net, YOU HAD A RULE ABOUT THIS! And you still went ahead and added it to the shade abilities and nerved everything else besides the crippling!
• Sand Savant: Sand Savant was a mistake. It should have never been a trait that increased damage radius. It was too oppressive on top of crippling with its massive coverage and high DPS output. If arena net made sand savant provide buffs to allies rather than conditions to enemies this could have prevented it from running a muck in PvP and somewhat WvW, but arena net continued to nerf everything around it and eventually it, but didn't change that it was required. Now Scourge is a wet noodle but still required in zergs, they just moved to power because the crippling is still keeping suckers in the massive aoe field.
• Removing the Putrid Curse boon corrupt: For a skill that requires a massive investment to achieve this really wasn't as big a deal as arena net thinks. And if it was, than why does the mesmer still have boon strip on their sword auto attack? Necromancers already have to justify their boon corrupts and with mesmer just removing them more effectively, and easier with far far less effort I don't understand this change. Why remove one but not both? Why keep the one that can remove all boons in short work, but remove the one that requires a lot of personal investment from the player?
• Why was Blood is power given Charges?: Seriously? why not just drop its cool down and up its damage? Why give it two changes which doesn't do much in terms of a damage increase. Is it funny the necromancer can now kill themselves with just one skill for very little benefit? Are you trying to tell us something arena net?

I could honestly keep going. I could. There is so much more that is just wrong with anet's decision making when it comes to necromancer, I could be here all day listing things that make NO FREAKIN SENSE in terms of their balance. But how has this translated into the game? Half the necromancer community hates the most of their own class, players get locked into the necromancer because they try it first and have to work twice as hard to learn something else because necromancer taught them bad habits, Part of the community seems to think of necromancers as a death knight WHEN THAT WAS NEVER THEIR DESIGN IN THE FIRST PLACE, necromancer are frequently focus fired in PvP as an easy kill, players have put up signs saying "Necromancer's will be kicked", the glaring issues the community can see for miles and miles goes unfixed for half a decade and the necromancer community is so untrusting of anything the devs say about it that some have gone as far as saying that specific devs should be fired!(Note I never said that, because that's just really cruel and mean.) But the community is so beyond frustrated that we've lost a good 80% of the voices in the community to other games because of how broken the situation is for necromancer.

So you asked. Which profession is the community most hostile towards? Necromancer. Hands down, even necromancer players are extremely hostile toward necromancers.

Summed it up pretty well. I love my Reaper aesthetically and thematically but could never main it bc it’s laughably trash tier compared to my Dragonhunter main.

Won’t change until it does.

[Bunny.9834]

@Cynder.2509 said:Just curious and I want to know how things have changed over the years.(In terms of kicking people because they play a certain class or bashing them for it)

Well, I see myself getting very toxic towards rangers because they're annoying and useless. Even the druid is bad because there are classes who can outperform a druid in healing. Still don't know why it's still meta. Also it's a noob class. Every time i see a ranger I block them. (This goes for mostly WvW as I'm more active in this game mode but currently I'm taking a break from it since the community on my server has been split up and arguing over something. And yes, this also goes for PvE since every kitten ranger doesn't know what pet on passive is, nearly everyone uses the ugly bear and I see them mostly running this useless longbow which only causes more annoyance due to only have 2 useful skills and the rest being absolute s.hit. Is this class not hated by everysone anymore? I remember everyone hating it and labeling players of this class as noobs)

Toxic mentality.

[FyzE.3472]

@Lily.1935 said:All these poles giving Anet some decent information. It sure is useful to see what people feel.

Thumbs up for sarcasm.

[ProtoGunner.4953]

In PvE it's definitely ranger. They attract the worst kind of players, ignoring mechanics and just using longbow/bear and press skills on cooldown. It's horrible. I can't count the times when such an idiotic yolo-ranger kicks an enemy out of dozens of AoE-fields with the stupid knockback lb4 skill. It clearly shows ignorance towards mechanic. Also a typical ranger picture I see almost daily: camping LB and the stupid useless bear (mostly). Even if the enemy is one millimeter in front of their face they camp their longbow instead of switching ONCE to a melee weapon. It's the horror.

[Kako.1930]

@ProtoGunner.4953 said:In PvE it's definitely ranger. They attract the worst kind of players, ignoring mechanics and just using longbow/bear and press skills on cooldown. It's horrible. I can't count the times when such an idiotic yolo-ranger kicks an enemy out of dozens of AoE-fields with the stupid knockback lb4 skill. It clearly shows ignorance towards mechanic. Also a typical ranger picture I see almost daily: camping LB and the stupid useless bear (mostly). Even if the enemy is one millimeter in front of their face they camp their longbow instead of switching ONCE to a melee weapon. It's the horror.

Bearbow op, please nerf. ?

[draxynnic.3719]

@TotallyNotJazzie.1493 said:

@"Lily.1935" said:The necromancer is constantly under fire for nerfs. I think players just don't like playing against a debuffer. Necromancer's used to be quite proficient at shredding boons, Now they're still decent at it but don't compare to warrior

Gags

. They apply a wide range of conditions which players don't like and always think they're losing if they have even 1 condition on them. So they constantly get over nerfed by the devs. Their damage gets cut to ribbons, which reaper for example never had great damage but their chill got cut down and they sat in the back seat for ages because no one likes fighting Debuffers. Scourge had too much control with Shades being very placeble and with highly spammable crippling so their damage was nerfed to balance out the real problem which was the Crippling and AoE coverage. Note: The damage on scourge was never the problem! It was always the coverage and Crippling! But now all they've got is the crippling so they can be a wet noodle again! But the necromancer can't seem to have any sort of significant damage or support because they have the worst mechanic in the game, Shroud. But even when they drop shroud they're still not allowed to have any sort of support or damage because... uh... I'm not really sure.

The excuses Arena Net seems to give for why Necromancer isn't allowed to be good seems flimsy to me. Usually developers can convince me of their decisions and I can understand why they made specific changes, but Necromancer is always a loss to me. Their reasoning always seems to be counterable with another system in the game that's similar that just works far better! lets give some examples of really really bad changes and claims arena net have done to the necromancer that didn't result in anything good.

• Axe Auto: For some reason this needed to be nerfed because you could animation cancel it. and their reasoning behind it was because it wasn't a projectile and at ranged. But Mesmer greatsword auto had the same thing going on for it and the argument of Vuln stacking was weak as well since a majority of classes could stack 25 without an issue. So the change seemed pointless at the time and is still questionable especially considering the female auto animation is still broken to this day. If I wanted to paddle someone, well... I wouldn't be playing GW2.
• Dark Path: For some reason this is a slow moving projectile where as in the beta it was a ground teleport. I think we all know which one is better. But the issue is that its not very good for pursuit, you can't escape with it and it puts you in melee range with death shroud which doesn't want to be in melee range. Why did they make such a drastic change to it? Necromancer was considered powerful in the Beta, but people were already seeing holes in its armor at that point, why punch another hole in their armor? This doesn't make any sense especially considering the necromancer has very little access to stability.
• The necromancer is an attrition profession: Anyone who plays the necromancer for an extended period of time knows that this is absolute nonsense! The claim that a resourced based profession with diminishing returns on their mechanic is an attrition profession is really trying to pull a fast one on you. If you believe this I have some lovely snake oil that will cure all sicknesses you'd be interested in. But lets examine what the mechanic does. Life force requires death or being heavily offensive to generate. The profession needs to run into battle with nothing and fight without defenses to finally be able to get their defenses up. Once they do its chipped and chewed away. A profession that can outlast the necromancer will win, and those that can't can run away and antagonize them until their resources are burnt out. This is the exact opposite of an attrition profession.
• Jagged horrors were changed to have a life span: If these little things weren't bad enough to begin with, Jagged horrors were nerfed because of the necromancer's unintentional raid combo of using Lich form on a condi build to spawn dozens of jagged horrors all dealing bleeding damage. How did Arena net fix this? By removing the bleeding off jagged horrors still offering MMs a build they can at least enjoy? NOOOOOO! Giving them a 30 second life span so that in practice you can only have 1 up at a time with Death nova making the once decent elite of Lich form useless and minion master builds used only by the greenest of players.
• Jagged horrors were replaced on Lich form: So Arena net later replaced jagged horrors on lich form with unstable horrors. These horrors would explode after a while but did they return jagged horrors to their previous version? NOPE! Why would they do that? The problem that made them over powered in the first place doesn't have the minion skill anymore, so surely they can regain their old function? Nope! they remain the same and extra ordinarily bad.
• Necromancers aren't allowed damage or support because they have two health bars: So necromancer isn't allowed to function in group content is what this is saying. The profession that was supposed to be the home of monks and Necromancers from GW1 caters to neither because they need to be an HP tank, something no one asked for. But That isn't even a good argument. Mesmers can blur themselves for what seems like Minutes then go stealth, Thieves can escape from just about everything, warriors have high health, toughness and can shrug off conditions and damage far easier than necromancer, elementalist can make themselves almost immune to damage, revenant has dozens of evade frames and two healing skills, so on and so on. So this argument is super flimsy to me. A good player with a necromancer hits a hard cap on what they can do. A good mesmer play's cap is far beyond the necromancer's and has higher defensive potential. And each of those professions is allowed to provide significant support for the party and have significant damage. So this argument that necromancer isn't allowed to because of death shroud? If you truly believe that arena net, then you should remove the mechanic from the game. Because a mechanic that punishes the player for wanting to aid their friends shouldn't be a part of a highly cooperative game like this.
• You can't heal in death shroud without specific traits: I guess anet's reason is this would make them too tanky. But its so frustrating for the healers in the party playing with them. And especially since players use shroud as a panic button. Which means rather than an ally healing the necromancer when they need it most, the player panics and can't be healed and suddenly dies when they get out of shroud because of how backwards the mechanic is. I've seen this happen so much and I spent so much time learning to avoid being in shroud for any extended period of time because of how anti party it is. If the tankiness is a problem, cut the passive damage reduction from shroud. Honestly, having more active defenses would be far better for us.
• You can't use Utility in shroud: Backwards design of shroud means you don't get access to your utility. Why? Because... um... I honestly couldn't tell you. It makes the necromancer so painfully predictable that you see them enter shroud you could walk them right off the cliff with how easy they are to control in this situation. Their options are so limited, so telegraphed that all shroud really does is stall. Except on reaper, but it burns so quickly so it doesn't matter as much. Even then, reaper's shroud is laughably easy to predict and control.
• Nerf everything around scourge but the actual problem: I mentioned it before, that the scourge had its shade duration nerfed, the damage nerfed, everything except the other piece to the puzzle that was causing the problem in the first place. The crippling. The crippling provided an extra cover condition and extended the time foes would be in your aoe Fields by 50%. Removing crippling could have been close to a 33% damage or even 66% reduction all on its own. But Anet would rather punish the necromancer for having reliable damage than touch one of two conditions they should have never had on the shade abilities. Spam able crippling or chill at range? Arena net, YOU HAD A RULE ABOUT THIS! And you still went ahead and added it to the shade abilities and nerved everything else besides the crippling!
• Sand Savant: Sand Savant was a mistake. It should have never been a trait that increased damage radius. It was too oppressive on top of crippling with its massive coverage and high DPS output. If arena net made sand savant provide buffs to allies rather than conditions to enemies this could have prevented it from running a muck in PvP and somewhat WvW, but arena net continued to nerf everything around it and eventually it, but didn't change that it was required. Now Scourge is a wet noodle but still required in zergs, they just moved to power because the crippling is still keeping suckers in the massive aoe field.
• Removing the Putrid Curse boon corrupt: For a skill that requires a massive investment to achieve this really wasn't as big a deal as arena net thinks. And if it was, than why does the mesmer still have boon strip on their sword auto attack? Necromancers already have to justify their boon corrupts and with mesmer just removing them more effectively, and easier with far far less effort I don't understand this change. Why remove one but not both? Why keep the one that can remove all boons in short work, but remove the one that requires a lot of personal investment from the player?
• Why was Blood is power given Charges?: Seriously? why not just drop its cool down and up its damage? Why give it two changes which doesn't do much in terms of a damage increase. Is it funny the necromancer can now kill themselves with just one skill for very little benefit? Are you trying to tell us something arena net?

I could honestly keep going. I could. There is so much more that is just wrong with anet's decision making when it comes to necromancer, I could be here all day listing things that make NO FREAKIN SENSE in terms of their balance. But how has this translated into the game? Half the necromancer community hates the most of their own class, players get locked into the necromancer because they try it first and have to work twice as hard to learn something else because necromancer taught them bad habits, Part of the community seems to think of necromancers as a death knight WHEN THAT WAS NEVER THEIR DESIGN IN THE FIRST PLACE, necromancer are frequently focus fired in PvP as an easy kill, players have put up signs saying "Necromancer's will be kicked", the glaring issues the community can see for miles and miles goes unfixed for half a decade and the necromancer community is so untrusting of anything the devs say about it that some have gone as far as saying that specific devs should be fired!(Note I never said that, because that's just really cruel and mean.) But the community is so beyond frustrated that we've lost a good 80% of the voices in the community to other games because of how broken the situation is for necromancer.

So you asked. Which profession is the community most hostile towards? Necromancer. Hands down, even necromancer players are extremely hostile toward necromancers.

Summed it up pretty well. I love my Reaper aesthetically and thematically but could never main it bc it’s laughably trash tier compared to my Dragonhunter main.

Won’t change until

it

does.

Man, I tried Reaper again earlier this week for the first time since PoF landed...

Couldn't even get through a single rotation in shroud until my life force was more than half gone more often than not, and that was with the perma-quickness trait.

I understand what they were trying to do with the 'faster decay of shroud in exchange for more damage', but...

[Tuna Bandit.3786]

"Hate a Class" nope.It's nobody's business what classes I play, and what builds. If you hate me for that, then go ahead.This hating is toxic.My main 2 characters are a Mesmer and a Ranger, and after reading this post, stay away from me... Hate Mesmer's huh? Except when they port you through a JP? Hypocrititcal at best.Seriously, maybe I am getting too old for this, but if you have nothing else to do, but to hate people for what they want to do in a freakin' game, then by all means go ahead. Don't expect any love from me.Thank goodness I only play PVE and only do dungeons and fractals with RL friends, because I would not want to be part of any group that hates classes!

Hate is a very, very strong word!