please stop duelling in WvW!!

Lord Trejgon.2809 · October 9, 2018

as someone have already mentioned above: my only issues with those "duellers" is that they take up map slots without contributing. a very crappy roamer would be better for the server on that map, than even bestest of best duelers that just stays on that one spot 1v1ing people.

if only there was a map, that falls under rulesets of wvw, but separated from main fighting maps....... oh wait, there is one.

except for some of duelers in here it's not valid spot because lo and behold "there is nothing in there"

(I really get argument why not sPvP, but I don't get why you can't move to Obsidian Sanctum and cease to be taking up map slots from people who wants to actually play the mode instead of running "buildcraft testing" - especially in scenarios when both duelers are old good friends sitting on voice chat)

samo.1054 · October 9, 2018

@"Lord Trejgon.2809" said:as someone have already mentioned above: my only issues with those "duellers" is that they take up map slots without contributing. a very crappy roamer would be better for the server on that map, than even bestest of best duelers that just stays on that one spot 1v1ing people.
if only there was a map, that falls under rulesets of wvw, but separated from main fighting maps....... oh wait, there is one.
except for some of duelers in here it's not valid spot because lo and behold "there is nothing in there"
(I really get argument why not sPvP, but I don't get why you can't move to Obsidian Sanctum and cease to be taking up map slots from people who wants to actually play the mode instead of running "buildcraft testing" - especially in scenarios when both duelers are old good friends sitting on voice chat)

You're talking as if queues are there in WvW 24/7, when in reality the queues on the borders are for about 2 hours per day on server links with highest population, and most duelers don't even duel at that time.

So what we're realistically looking at here is that duelists perhaps take up to maybe max 5 spots on a queued map 2 hours per day. I'm sure any server can live with that, so your argument is quite invalid. Don't blow things out of proportion just to try and make a valid point.

Even if your argument actually had any weight to it, people will play the game the way they want, they are not obliged to "help your server out" in any way. How do you define contribution anyway? You people are seriously nitpicking at stuff without comprehending the bigger picture.

When you blame a duelist for not contributing to the server, do you also port to every waypoint on the map and count the people afk on the map? Do you see what I mean by nitpicking?

There's a saying: "Live and let live". It also translates into gaming world. The sooner you people stop sticking your noses into how other people play, the sooner you will stop being frustrated.

Again, it's up to you, not them.

Dawdler.8521 · October 9, 2018

@"Lord Trejgon.2809" said:as someone have already mentioned above: my only issues with those "duellers" is that they take up map slots without contributing.

Yeah... Except for every dueler there is at least 10 people AFK in spawn ruining outnumbered, waiting for their "hardcore fighting guild" to start raiding in 1h or more or just queuing EB because they dont know how to fight border havocs without a blue commander holding their hand telling them its going to be alright.

Lord Trejgon.2809 · October 9, 2018

@samo.1054 said:
@"Lord Trejgon.2809" said:as someone have already mentioned above: my only issues with those "duellers" is that they take up map slots without contributing. a very crappy roamer would be better for the server on that map, than even bestest of best duelers that just stays on that one spot 1v1ing people.
if only there was a map, that falls under rulesets of wvw, but separated from main fighting maps....... oh wait, there is one.
except for some of duelers in here it's not valid spot because lo and behold "there is nothing in there"
(I really get argument why not sPvP, but I don't get why you can't move to Obsidian Sanctum and cease to be taking up map slots from people who wants to actually play the mode instead of running "buildcraft testing" - especially in scenarios when both duelers are old good friends sitting on voice chat)

You're talking as if queues are there in WvW 24/7, when in reality the queues on the borders are for about 2 hours per day on server links with

highest population

, and most duelers don't even duel at that time.

So what we're realistically looking at here is that duelists perhaps take up to maybe max 5 spots on a queued map 2 hours per day. I'm sure any server can live with that, so your argument is quite invalid. Don't blow things out of proportion just to try and make a valid point.

Even if your argument actually had any weight to it, people will play the game the way they want, they are not obliged to "help your server out" in any way. How do you define contribution anyway? You people are seriously nitpicking at stuff without comprehending the bigger picture.

When you blame a duelist for not contributing to the server, do you also port to every waypoint on the map and count the people afk on the map? Do you see what I mean by nitpicking?

There's a saying: "Live and let live". It also translates into gaming world. The sooner you people stop sticking your noses into how other people play, the sooner you will stop being frustrated.

Again, it's up to you, not them.

afk people are just as bad
"2 hours per day on server links with highest population" I am unsure which regions has that, it is not uncommon over here to get queues for whole duration of primetime - and yes I've seen those "duelers" in this time too, surprise surprise, duelers also tends to have life narrowing time in case "when" they can play.
"they are not obliged to "help your server out" in any way." this is WvWvW game mode, sorry to break it to you (or to be "that guy") but this mode whole PURPOSE is to provide battlefield for eternall full out war. Yes, no one is obliged to participate in it to help server win, but when you are stepping into it you are agreeing to follow ruleset of the mode. by this logic of yours in here I could go on into sPvP and "not be obliged to help out the team to win the match" by doing things irrelevant to the mode itself, and would be just as "fine" - go into sPvP forum and ask them how they would react.
don't get me wrong: I said this is my ONLY issue with them. I am not "blowing things out of proportion" and for most of time when I see them I ignore them, which does not change the fact that it is irritable slightly when I hear half of the guild on voice chat waiting in queue for group up and I notice bunch of folks doing effectively nothing.

EDIT:

@Dawdler.8521 said:
@"Lord Trejgon.2809" said:as someone have already mentioned above: my only issues with those "duellers" is that they take up map slots without contributing.

Yeah... Except for every dueler there is at least 10 people AFK in spawn ruining outnumbered, waiting for their "hardcore fighting guild" to start raiding in 1h or more or just queuing EB because they dont know how to fight border havocs without a blue commander holding their hand telling them its going to be alright.

"waiting for their "hardcore fighting guild" to start raiding" yes I have seen quite alot of people witing on wp waiting untill rest of the squad, commander included can even load into map due to queues.....

" just queuing EB because they dont know how to fight border havocs without a blue commander holding their hand telling them its going to be alright." still more contributing per map slot than most of duellers I have seen.

also, existance of somthing worse does not invalidate something being bad on it's own - just because afkers are a thing and worse thing, does not justify duellers being pretendious as if they owned the map just as much as people who play the mode as intended (by collectively yelling on forums over a guy who thought is engaging in 2v1, expected it to go by 2v1 scenario, but got left out by the other guy, resulting in his death, because "hurrdurr he interfered in honoraburu duelz!" and got irritated by that enought to make a post of it on the forum)

Reh.5986 · October 9, 2018

Fine with dueling in WVW. Just don't cry in chat if you're dueling somewhere weird and get +1d, ganked or trucked by a blob. There are actually some really nice spots for it on the BLs and some more risky spots on each side of SM.

Dawdler.8521 · October 9, 2018

@"Lord Trejgon.2809" said:also, existance of somthing worse does not invalidate something being bad on it's own - just because afkers are a thing and worse thing, does not justify duellers being pretendious as if they owned the map just as much as people who play the mode as intended (by collectively yelling on forums over a guy who thought is engaging in 2v1, expected it to go by 2v1 scenario, but got left out by the other guy, resulting in his death, because "hurrdurr he interfered in honoraburu duelz!" and got irritated by that enought to make a post of it on the forum)

You said that the only issue was that they take up map slot and dont contribute, when in fact they are probably less than 10% of the players contributing nothing when considering people standing afk. In fact I think its more like less than 1% if you where to count hours people duel vs hours people stand in spawn across all servers.

Thats akin to saying my only issue with stealth is that warriors can blast finish a rangers smoke field, on the subject of thieves.

If you begin talking about the attitude of so called duelers then we are talking about another issue. But tbh, I still think they are outclassed by a couple of seconds of /team. The existance of sonething worse puts things in perspective

Lord Trejgon.2809 · October 9, 2018

@Dawdler.8521 said:
@"Lord Trejgon.2809" said:also, existance of somthing worse does not invalidate something being bad on it's own - just because afkers are a thing and worse thing, does not justify duellers being pretendious as if they owned the map just as much as people who play the mode as intended (by collectively yelling on forums over a guy who thought is engaging in 2v1, expected it to go by 2v1 scenario, but got left out by the other guy, resulting in his death, because "hurrdurr he interfered in honoraburu duelz!" and got irritated by that enought to make a post of it on the forum)

You said that the

only issue

was that they take up map slot and dont contribute, when in fact they are probably less than 10% of the players contributing nothing when considering people standing afk. In fact I think its more like less than 1%.

Thats akin to saying my only issue with stealth is that warriors can blast finish a rangers smoke field, on the subject of thieves.

Your paralel in here does not apply.

if you really want to compare it to things this way it'd be more like me saying - on the subject of thieves, that I'm "only" irritated with, let's say torment output of condi thief, with hypothetical other class/build dishing out way more than that of this specific condition. (I'd prolly name specific class build, but I do not play much classes with access to torment per se, to name something dishing out more of it than my condi tief build with 100% sureness it DOES :P)

and maybe you've never run into situation where duelers were present on map and your guild raid commander was stuck on queue, but I have experienced few of these. more so I have even seen once a situation when border was full, couple of guys were "honoraburu duelling" on the side, and only "afk" people were... my guildmates waiting for commander to load in.

again, just because X is on average bigger contribution to a problem does not make Y innocent on the case.

Dawdler.8521 · October 9, 2018

@"Lord Trejgon.2809" said:and maybe you've never run into situation where duelers were present on map and your guild raid commander was stuck on queue, but I have experienced few of these. more so I have even seen once a situation when border was full, couple of guys were "honoraburu duelling" on the side, and only "afk" people were... my guildmates waiting for commander to load in.

Cant say I have, because 5-10 people have never impacted the success of our guilds and zergs fighting the enemy guilds and zergs.

The only issue I have seen is when our raid guilds decide they want "honoraburu duelling" against the enemy guilds while their zerg instead cap the entire border because we cant defend things when 2 raid guilds are GvGing for an hour and another of our raid guilds stand there watching the whole time waiting for their turn and not saying a peep when our T3 keeps burns and we try to fight 20 vs 60.

So no, I've never ran into that situation where a couple of duelers affect the whole border.

Sorry.

Fat Disgrace.4275 · October 9, 2018

@Reh.5986 said:Fine with dueling in WVW. Just don't cry in chat if you're dueling somewhere weird and get +1d, ganked or trucked by a blob. There are actually some really nice spots for it on the BLs and some more risky spots on each side of SM.

I don't think any dueler crys if they get ganked, that's part of it.

Fat Disgrace.4275 · October 9, 2018

@Reh.5986 said:Fine with dueling in WVW. Just don't cry in chat if you're dueling somewhere weird and get +1d, ganked or trucked by a blob. There are actually some really nice spots for it on the BLs and some more risky spots on each side of SM.

I don't think any dueler crys if they get ganked, that's part of it.

Lord Trejgon.2809 · October 9, 2018

@Dawdler.8521 said:
@"Lord Trejgon.2809" said:and maybe you've never run into situation where duelers were present on map and your guild raid commander was stuck on queue, but I have experienced few of these. more so I have even seen once a situation when border was full, couple of guys were "honoraburu duelling" on the side, and only "afk" people were... my guildmates waiting for commander to load in.

Cant say I have, because 5-10 people have never impacted the success of our guilds and zergs fighting the enemy guilds and zergs.

The only issue I have seen is when our raid guilds decide they want "honoraburu duelling" against the enemy guilds while their zerg instead cap the entire border because we cant defend things when 2 raid guilds are GvGing for an hour and another of our raid guilds stand there watching the whole time waiting for their turn and not saying a peep when our T3 keeps burns and we try to fight 20 vs 60.

So no, I've never ran into that situation where a couple of duelers affect the whole border.

Sorry.

I never said "whole border" I only explicitelly mentioned my guild's WvW activity.and yes 5-10 people may be a huge deal when among those 5-10 people are all of your guild's experienced commanders....

fair point with GvGs altho I'd argue it's basically dueling but taken to extreme....

edit:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:
@"Reh.5986" said:Fine with dueling in WVW. Just don't cry in chat if you're dueling somewhere weird and get +1d, ganked or trucked by a blob. There are actually some really nice spots for it on the BLs and some more risky spots on each side of SM.

I don't think any dueler crys if they get ganked, that's part of it.

I think I have seen exacly once, a bunch of duellers complaining about "kitten roamers messing up their honoraburu duelz" at least the one of them that I could see what was writing did.

Shroud.2307 · October 9, 2018

Everyone please stop responding to this thread. The disagreement will never end and I'm tired of getting notifications from it.

Strider Pj.2193 · October 9, 2018

@Lord Trejgon.2809 said:
@Dawdler.8521 said:
@Lord Trejgon.2809 said:and maybe you've never run into situation where duelers were present on map and your guild raid commander was stuck on queue, but I have experienced few of these. more so I have even seen once a situation when border was full, couple of guys were "honoraburu duelling" on the side, and only "afk" people were... my guildmates waiting for commander to load in.

Cant say I have, because 5-10 people have never impacted the success of our guilds and zergs fighting the enemy guilds and zergs.

The only issue I have seen is when our raid guilds decide they want "honoraburu duelling" against the enemy guilds while their zerg instead cap the entire border because we cant defend things when 2 raid guilds are GvGing for an hour and another of our raid guilds stand there watching the whole time waiting for their turn and not saying a peep when our T3 keeps burns and we try to fight 20 vs 60.

So no, I've never ran into that situation where a couple of duelers affect the whole border.

Sorry.

I never said "whole border" I only explicitelly mentioned my guild's WvW activity.and yes 5-10 people may be a huge deal when among those 5-10 people are all of your guild's experienced commanders....

fair point with GvGs altho I'd argue it's basically dueling but taken to extreme....

edit:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:
@"Reh.5986" said:Fine with dueling in WVW. Just don't cry in chat if you're dueling somewhere weird and get +1d, ganked or trucked by a blob. There are actually some really nice spots for it on the BLs and some more risky spots on each side of SM.

I don't think any dueler crys if they get ganked, that's part of it.

I think I have seen exacly once, a bunch of duellers complaining about "

kitten

roamers messing up their honoraburu duelz" at least the one of them that I could see what was writing did.

But those 5-10 sitting in spawn waiting for their commander to get in and won't help the border aren't a problem?

Reality is, no. 5-10 doesn't affect the borders. It can impact some fights, but it won't turn a week. On either side of the equation.

Funny part is, OP complaining about it here in the forum. Makes no sense.

Lord Trejgon.2809 · October 9, 2018

@Strider Pj.2193 said:
@Lord Trejgon.2809 said:
@Dawdler.8521 said:
@Lord Trejgon.2809 said:and maybe you've never run into situation where duelers were present on map and your guild raid commander was stuck on queue, but I have experienced few of these. more so I have even seen once a situation when border was full, couple of guys were "honoraburu duelling" on the side, and only "afk" people were... my guildmates waiting for commander to load in.

Cant say I have, because 5-10 people have never impacted the success of our guilds and zergs fighting the enemy guilds and zergs.

The only issue I have seen is when our raid guilds decide they want "honoraburu duelling" against the enemy guilds while their zerg instead cap the entire border because we cant defend things when 2 raid guilds are GvGing for an hour and another of our raid guilds stand there watching the whole time waiting for their turn and not saying a peep when our T3 keeps burns and we try to fight 20 vs 60.

So no, I've never ran into that situation where a couple of duelers affect the whole border.

Sorry.

I never said "whole border" I only explicitelly mentioned my guild's WvW activity.and yes 5-10 people may be a huge deal when among those 5-10 people are all of your guild's experienced commanders....

fair point with GvGs altho I'd argue it's basically dueling but taken to extreme....

edit:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:
@"Reh.5986" said:Fine with dueling in WVW. Just don't cry in chat if you're dueling somewhere weird and get +1d, ganked or trucked by a blob. There are actually some really nice spots for it on the BLs and some more risky spots on each side of SM.

I don't think any dueler crys if they get ganked, that's part of it.

I think I have seen exacly once, a bunch of duellers complaining about "

kitten

roamers messing up their honoraburu duelz" at least the one of them that I could see what was writing did.

But those 5-10 sitting in spawn waiting for their commander to get in and won't help the border aren't a problem?

Reality is, no. 5-10 doesn't affect the borders. It can impact some fights, but it won't turn a week. On either side of the equation.

Funny part is, OP complaining about it here in the forum. Makes no sense.

who is the bigger problem: the ones who are taking place not intended for them, or the ones rendered unable to act due to chain of command being stuck in the queue...... because of the ones taking place not intended for them?

and yeah 5-10 zerglings won't make huge change in most scenarios - but when those 5-10s are only people with experience to coordinate rest of the border into usefull group, then we have a problem. And yes I have also seen borders in shambles due to tags on border being utterly clueless on "how" and people experienced on "how" were stuck in the queue for half teh skirmish - and yeah sure you can say that what happened in one skirmish is unlikely to go in scope outside of that skirmish (would not exacly be true tho) but it's still one skirmish lost out of two skirmishes in the timezone when whole group could be assembled.....

and don;t get me wrong, while this specific case of OP may not be... well... most thought out issue, (assumptions, maybe a bit of l2p and need of ability to move on) main reason why I joined in with my opinion was due of overwhelming amount of people in here pretending it is completely fine to take up from limited space to do things unrelated to the mode - as I tried to underline with example with people joining sPvP matches with no intend to contribute towards their team win in said match.

Strider Pj.2193 · October 9, 2018

@Lord Trejgon.2809 said:
@Strider Pj.2193 said:
@Lord Trejgon.2809 said:
@Dawdler.8521 said:
@Lord Trejgon.2809 said:and maybe you've never run into situation where duelers were present on map and your guild raid commander was stuck on queue, but I have experienced few of these. more so I have even seen once a situation when border was full, couple of guys were "honoraburu duelling" on the side, and only "afk" people were... my guildmates waiting for commander to load in.

Cant say I have, because 5-10 people have never impacted the success of our guilds and zergs fighting the enemy guilds and zergs.

The only issue I have seen is when our raid guilds decide they want "honoraburu duelling" against the enemy guilds while their zerg instead cap the entire border because we cant defend things when 2 raid guilds are GvGing for an hour and another of our raid guilds stand there watching the whole time waiting for their turn and not saying a peep when our T3 keeps burns and we try to fight 20 vs 60.

So no, I've never ran into that situation where a couple of duelers affect the whole border.

Sorry.

I never said "whole border" I only explicitelly mentioned my guild's WvW activity.and yes 5-10 people may be a huge deal when among those 5-10 people are all of your guild's experienced commanders....

fair point with GvGs altho I'd argue it's basically dueling but taken to extreme....

edit:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:
@"Reh.5986" said:Fine with dueling in WVW. Just don't cry in chat if you're dueling somewhere weird and get +1d, ganked or trucked by a blob. There are actually some really nice spots for it on the BLs and some more risky spots on each side of SM.

I don't think any dueler crys if they get ganked, that's part of it.

I think I have seen exacly once, a bunch of duellers complaining about "

kitten

roamers messing up their honoraburu duelz" at least the one of them that I could see what was writing did.

But those 5-10 sitting in spawn waiting for their commander to get in and won't help the border aren't a problem?

Reality is, no. 5-10 doesn't affect the borders. It can impact some fights, but it won't turn a week. On either side of the equation.

Funny part is, OP complaining about it here in the forum. Makes no sense.

who is the bigger problem: the ones who are taking place not intended for them, or the ones rendered unable to act due to chain of command being stuck in the queue...... because of the ones taking place not intended for them?

and yeah 5-10 zerglings won't make huge change in most scenarios - but when those 5-10s are only people with experience to coordinate rest of the border into usefull group, then we have a problem. And yes I have also seen borders in shambles due to tags on border being utterly clueless on "how" and people experienced on "how" were stuck in the queue for half teh skirmish - and yeah sure you can say that what happened in one skirmish is unlikely to go in scope outside of that skirmish (would not exacly be true tho) but it's still one skirmish lost out of two skirmishes in the timezone when whole group could be assembled.....

and don;t get me wrong, while this specific case of OP may not be... well... most thought out issue, (assumptions, maybe a bit of l2p and need of ability to move on) main reason why I joined in with my opinion was due of overwhelming amount of people in here pretending it is completely fine to take up from limited space to do things unrelated to the mode - as I tried to underline with example with people joining sPvP matches with no intend to contribute towards their team win in said match.

Both of the 5-10 who aren't helping are as much of a problem. Those players at spawn are capable of manning seige, repairing a wall, attacking attackers on a tower or keep.

Sitting is spawn in some ways is a morale killer for those that die and port back to spawn, see people standing around, and not coming to help.

Both have issues.

Lord Trejgon.2809 · October 9, 2018

@Strider Pj.2193 said:
@Lord Trejgon.2809 said:
@Strider Pj.2193 said:
@Lord Trejgon.2809 said:
@Dawdler.8521 said:
@Lord Trejgon.2809 said:and maybe you've never run into situation where duelers were present on map and your guild raid commander was stuck on queue, but I have experienced few of these. more so I have even seen once a situation when border was full, couple of guys were "honoraburu duelling" on the side, and only "afk" people were... my guildmates waiting for commander to load in.