Things ruining WvW

[cobbah.3102]

Perma stealth is such kitten totally ridiculous , needs to be cut back by 3/4 lets hear the deadeyes have a whinge for a change and then maybe the game would just be a tad more enjoyable , I dont mind dying heck its part of the game but to this kitten called stealth is way beyond a joke about time something was done and lets not wait to next patch which seems to be the catch cry "next patch" minimal fixes but more new gem store stuff ,the game is an absolute mess all this along with hacks and use of macros and alt accounts , as the players say get good and this applies to the people responsible for the implementation of such nonsense , anyways back to my wine and enough of the other whine.

[aspirine.6852]

So deadeyes are ruining it more than boonsharing blobs? Ok.

[Zero.3871]

i am still rofl, when i remember that People where complaining about scourge Spikes "out of nowhere". that due to the red circles. but DE is fine. xD this community. just rofl.

[Turk.5460]

@"Zero.3871" said:i am still rofl, when i remember that People where complaining about scourge Spikes "out of nowhere". that due to the red circles. but DE is fine. xD this community. just rofl.

I'm "rofl" at how you think those two things have anything to do with each other. Apart from the shades, which weren't needed to do the damage, Scourge condi spikes had 0 tell and 0 cast time and hit 5 targets.

[Lord Trejgon.2809]

@Trepidation Lost.3469 said:

@"Lord Trejgon.2809" said:tbh in all of roaming I have ever did I've encountered "problematic" deadeye only twice. first one tried to dirsupt capture fo a tower from a group of 5, but failed via smart use of terrain on our side, and the other one was not even running rifle as far as I could tell (dude was using double pistol and I was on my daredevil in that specific encounter)

and considering how many of deadeyes even are seen in wvw (from my experience, and information gathered from guildmates and this forum) I'd say it's hardly even in scope to effectively "ruin wvw" as OP claims. (is it balanced? can't really say, but it's definitelly not ruining whole mode)

It ruining WvW is subjective sure.But just because you don’t experience it doesn’t mean it isn’t ruining WvW it just means you’re lucky to not have had the same experience as me like many have.

for every roamer deadeye that could be problematic, you have at least one zerg full of sourges bombing the living hell out of everyone on their path requiring less skill and having greater global impact on the mode - so my point about scale still stays.

[Zero.3871]

@Turk.5460 said:

@"Zero.3871" said:i am still rofl, when i remember that People where complaining about scourge Spikes "out of nowhere". that due to the red circles. but DE is fine. xD this community. just rofl.

I'm "rofl" at how you think those two things have anything to do with each other. Apart from the shades, which weren't needed to do the damage, Scourge condi spikes had 0 tell and 0 cast time and hit 5 targets.

"0 casttime" says everything about your knowledge. watch to manifest shade skill and you will find the same casttime like DJ has. but thats not the point. it is a question of possible counterplay (can you dodge it or not) old manifest sand shade had same telling like DJ now. you could dodge it, but it was easier to flame at Forum than learning how to dodge. now People complain in the same way About the DE, but suddenly you are defending a spike that Comes "out of nowhere" because it affects your own class and not just another class. it is just funny to see this double Standards in gw2 community. but i am not wondering About that. People in gw2 were never objective.imo DE should get the same Treatment like scourge. if one get nerfed also nerf the other because there is no difference in the tell of that Spikes.

[GDchiaScrub.3241]

So! Is this thread suppose to be an "in general gripe thread" or specifically about thieves? Pretty sure there was a topic about thief specs already...

D:

[DemonSeed.3528]

@Zero.3871 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@Zero.3871 said:i am still rofl, when i remember that People where complaining about scourge Spikes "out of nowhere". that due to the red circles. but DE is fine. xD this community. just rofl.

I'm "rofl" at how you think those two things have anything to do with each other. Apart from the shades, which weren't needed to do the damage, Scourge condi spikes had 0 tell and 0 cast time and hit 5 targets.

"0 casttime" says everything about your knowledge. watch to manifest shade skill and you will find the same casttime like DJ has. but thats not the point. it is a question of possible counterplay (can you dodge it or not) old manifest sand shade had same telling like DJ now. you could dodge it, but it was easier to flame at Forum than learning how to dodge. now People complain in the same way About the DE, but suddenly you are defending a spike that Comes "out of nowhere" because it affects your own class and not just another class. it is just funny to see this double Standards in gw2 community. but i am not wondering About that. People in gw2 were never objective.imo DE should get the same Treatment like scourge. if one get nerfed also nerf the other because there is no difference in the tell of that Spikes.

But isn't one dodging a single bullet and the other is an aoe, which they might still be engulfed inside depending where they dodge?

[Turk.5460]

@DemonSeed.3528 said:

@Zero.3871 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@Zero.3871 said:i am still rofl, when i remember that People where complaining about scourge Spikes "out of nowhere". that due to the red circles. but DE is fine. xD this community. just rofl.

I'm "rofl" at how you think those two things have anything to do with each other. Apart from the shades, which weren't needed to do the damage, Scourge condi spikes had 0 tell and 0 cast time and hit 5 targets.

"0 casttime" says everything about your knowledge. watch to manifest shade skill and you will find the same casttime like DJ has. but thats not the point. it is a question of possible counterplay (can you dodge it or not) old manifest sand shade had same telling like DJ now. you could dodge it, but it was easier to flame at Forum than learning how to dodge. now People complain in the same way About the DE, but suddenly you are defending a spike that Comes "out of nowhere" because it affects your own class and not just another class. it is just funny to see this double Standards in gw2 community. but i am not wondering About that. People in gw2 were never objective.imo DE should get the same Treatment like scourge. if one get nerfed also nerf the other because there is no difference in the tell of that Spikes.

But isn't one dodging a single bullet and the other is an aoe, which they might still be engulfed inside depending where they dodge?

I like how he focused on the shade, when I deliberately pre-countered that with "which weren't needed to do the damage." Then mocks me on my knowledge xDI guess some people still don't realize that shade skills emanate from the Scourge itself as well...

[Burnfall.9573]

Success demands three things;

1. Hard work
2. Sacrifice
3. Struggle

Until thief and mesmer design implements these three demands, wvw+pvp will stay in its broken state

[kash.9213]

@Burnfall.9573 said:Success demands three things;

1. Hard work
2. Sacrifice
3. Struggle

Until thief design implements these three demands, wvw+pvp will stay in its broken state

You're saying every thief and every thief build fails that list but that you succeed with it? Why don't you unpack that and explain a bit with examples of builds and players with yourself and your build as a reference.

[Magnuzone.8395]

Your usual minstrel Firebrand here and they barely even take half my hp. If they are lucky. Just keep boons up when you are targeted and stay cool.

[Burnfall.9573]

@kash.9213 said:

@"Burnfall.9573" said:Success demands three things;

1. Hard work
2. Sacrifice
3. Struggle

Until thief design implements these three demands, wvw+pvp will stay in its broken state

You're saying every thief and every thief build fails that list but that you succeed with it? Why don't you unpack that and explain a bit with examples of builds and players with yourself and your build as a reference.

*'Deadeye is so broken and easy hl st'**

[kash.9213]

@Burnfall.9573 said:

@kash.9213 said:

@Burnfall.9573 said:Success demands three things;

1. Hard work
2. Sacrifice
3. Struggle

Until thief design implements these three demands, wvw+pvp will stay in its broken state

You're saying every thief and every thief build fails that list but that you succeed with it? Why don't you unpack that and explain a bit with examples of builds and players with yourself and your build as a reference.

*

'Deadeye is so broken and easy hl s

t'**

That's right, you're the one who always posts heavily edited and staged videos, are you going to respond to what I asked though?

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

@Burnfall.9573 said:

@kash.9213 said:

@Burnfall.9573 said:Success demands three things;

1. Hard work
2. Sacrifice
3. Struggle

Until thief design implements these three demands, wvw+pvp will stay in its broken state

You're saying every thief and every thief build fails that list but that you succeed with it? Why don't you unpack that and explain a bit with examples of builds and players with yourself and your build as a reference.

*

'Deadeye is so broken and easy hl s

t'**

Go do the same with core s/d or daredevil d/p (wait, d/p can get high numbers thanks to assassins signet and bound)

[geist.4126]

The only ones defending deadeye are those type of players that play thief and can't play anything else because it's too hard. Just ignore them and wait for the qq when the nerfbat hits.

[Turk.5460]

@geist.4126 said:The only ones defending deadeye are those type of players that play thief and can't play anything else because it's too hard. Just ignore them and wait for the qq when the nerfbat hits.

What Deadeye are you referring to? Deadeye as a whole? Are you referring to a specific build and stat combo? Is there anything besides stealth on dodge or stealth uptime in general that you think is unfair?

I use a S/P and Rifle build that doesn't use SA, has pieces of Wanderer's gear and Durability Runes. Is that still perma-stealth? Is that build OP too?

[kash.9213]

@"geist.4126" said:The only ones defending deadeye are those type of players that play thief and can't play anything else because it's too hard. Just ignore them and wait for the qq when the nerfbat hits.

Thieves get always get nerfed. Then they figure out how to make the new build work and people continue to "qq" on this forum, circle of life.

[geist.4126]

"Thieves get always get nerfed" good one. I really had to roflmao!

What deadeye? How about the whole traitline and the elite while at it? Turn down damage by 25% backstab/rifle1 or nerf the damage modifiers for malice, make stealth duration capped to 4 seconds (and delete the option to get rid of revealed) or.. there are a lot of options. Sadly it seems to be completely ok to run around stealthed and oneshot people with 18-25k hits from stealth.

[Turk.5460]

@"geist.4126" said:"Thieves get always get nerfed" good one. I really had to roflmao!

You must have joined this game only a few months ago. Since you didn't play through core and then HoT - you must not have seen the stream of Thief nerfs from 2012 completely overshadowing the one or two useful buffs along the way.

[SoV.5139]

@Turk.5460 said:

@Trepidation Lost.3469 said:

@shortcake.8659 said:In before all the deadeye players tell you to easily counter them by using the 30 revealed skills every minute that every class you are playing has access to.

@shortcake.8659 said:In before all the deadeye players tell you to easily counter them by using the 30 revealed skills every minute that every class you are playing has access to.

Oh and in theory this could work! But unless reveal freezes them on the spot they evade spam away for about 3k range ?

It doesn't seem like you've played DE or know much about it. Can you tell me how they can "evade spam away for about 3k range"?

Spam weapon skill which has (evade frames) + heal skill (evade frames) + roll for initiative (evade frames) + weapon skill again (spam-able for even moAr evade frames) + dodge (evade frames + stealth). Most dont even need a short bow for distance escape, which is the signature mobility weapon for most other thief builds.

Perhaps it is you who hasnt played it, if you thought it wasnt possible.

Even in a hilariously skewed situation where you can beat the DE player 9/10 times, they just need to reset the fight pushing the same few buttons to escape, and the 1/10 times where you make a mistake you dont get to move away, but instead take the L.

Simply put, this is a magnet for low skill play.

Deny it.

[geist.4126]

@Turk.5460 said:

@"geist.4126" said:"Thieves get always get nerfed" good one. I really had to roflmao!

You must have joined this game only a few months ago. Since you didn't play through core and then HoT - you must not have seen the stream of Thief nerfs from 2012 completely overshadowing the one or two useful buffs along the way.

Come on, don't cry now, please. Trying to argue over "I play this game for.." isn't an argument for anything. My thief on the account is six years old, just to kill your argument.What you "BUT MAH CLASS GETS ALWAYS NERFED - Crybabies" don't understand is: Every class gets nerfed. Most of the nerfs are justified. So, please, don't be a dick and try to be one of those people like WoW Paladin players, that post middlefinger ascii pictures over years, just because you got a well deserved nerf.

DE needs a massive nerf, so does stealth in general. You can cry as much as you want when all your arguments are "but we get nerfed all the time" and "it's a l2p issue" like people do on this forum all the time (see mirage discussion or firebrand). Just because you play a class, doesn't mean it's fine when the class is overpowered.

[Turk.5460]

@geist.4126 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@geist.4126 said:"Thieves get always get nerfed" good one. I really had to roflmao!

You must have joined this game only a few months ago. Since you didn't play through core and then HoT - you must not have seen the stream of Thief nerfs from 2012 completely overshadowing the one or two useful buffs along the way.

Come on, don't cry now, please. Trying to argue over "I play this game for.." isn't an argument for anything. My thief on the account is six years old, just to kill your argument.What you "BUT MAH CLASS GETS ALWAYS NERFED - Crybabies" don't understand is: Every class gets nerfed. Most of the nerfs are justified. So, please, don't be a kitten and try to be one of those people like WoW Paladin players, that post middlefinger ascii pictures over years, just because you got a well deserved nerf.

DE needs a massive nerf, so does stealth in general. You can cry as much as you want when all your arguments are "but we get nerfed all the time" and "it's a l2p issue" like people do on this forum all the time (see mirage discussion or firebrand). Just because you play a class, doesn't mean it's fine when the class is overpowered.

Oof. Looks like I hit a soft spot. Sorry I hurt your feelers there, little guy. :)

There are only 3 things that are overtuned on DE:

• Damage of Malicious Backstab
• Damage of Death's Judgement
• Stealth on Dodge

If these things were adjusted down, you would still whine. So what's your point in continuing to whine now?

@SoV.5139 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@Trepidation Lost.3469 said:

@shortcake.8659 said:In before all the deadeye players tell you to easily counter them by using the 30 revealed skills every minute that every class you are playing has access to.

@shortcake.8659 said:In before all the deadeye players tell you to easily counter them by using the 30 revealed skills every minute that every class you are playing has access to.

Oh and in theory this could work! But unless reveal freezes them on the spot they evade spam away for about 3k range ?

It doesn't seem like you've played DE or know much about it. Can you tell me how they can "evade spam away for about 3k range"?

Spam weapon skill which has (evade frames) + heal skill (evade frames) + roll for initiative (evade frames) + weapon skill again (spam-able for even moAr evade frames) + dodge (evade frames + stealth). Most dont even need a short bow for distance escape, which is the signature mobility weapon for most other thief builds.

Perhaps it is you who hasnt played it, if you thought it wasnt possible.

Even in a hilariously skewed situation where you can beat the DE player 9/10 times, they just need to reset the fight pushing the same few buttons to escape, and the 1/10 times where you make a mistake you dont get to move away, but instead take the L.

Simply put, this is a magnet for low skill play.

Deny it.

You can't be more wrong, perhaps you should try playing DE. The DE build that is complained about and that the OP is referring to uses D/P and Rifle. Can you point out where the weapon evade frames on that are? Are you possibly thinking of Rifle 4, Death's retreat? Nope, no evade frames there. Just a 5 initiative - 600 range backwards port. Spammable? Well now, this DE build only has 12 initiative. so I guess you can "spam" it ...twice?

Roll for Initiative? Again, you are wrong here. That build doesn't use that skill, and if any variation does, they are so far and few in between that you have no grounds to attempt to use it's existence in your favor.

Withdraw? 500 units and that's being generous with the terrain.

Lets recap:2x Rifle4 (if they even have 10 initiative at that time) = 1200 (ZERO EVADE FRAMES)Withdraw = 500 unitsTotal = 1700 units (well within reach of Ranger longbow, fyi)

I'm not denying that permastealth DE is low-skilled play. I'm simply questioning the credibility of players making outrageous claims and attempting to back them up with beyond incorrect information.

[SoV.5139]

@Turk.5460 said:

@geist.4126 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@geist.4126 said:"Thieves get always get nerfed" good one. I really had to roflmao!

You must have joined this game only a few months ago. Since you didn't play through core and then HoT - you must not have seen the stream of Thief nerfs from 2012 completely overshadowing the one or two useful buffs along the way.

Come on, don't cry now, please. Trying to argue over "I play this game for.." isn't an argument for anything. My thief on the account is six years old, just to kill your argument.What you "BUT MAH CLASS GETS ALWAYS NERFED - Crybabies" don't understand is: Every class gets nerfed. Most of the nerfs are justified. So, please, don't be a kitten and try to be one of those people like WoW Paladin players, that post middlefinger ascii pictures over years, just because you got a well deserved nerf.

DE needs a massive nerf, so does stealth in general. You can cry as much as you want when all your arguments are "but we get nerfed all the time" and "it's a l2p issue" like people do on this forum all the time (see mirage discussion or firebrand). Just because you play a class, doesn't mean it's fine when the class is overpowered.

Oof. Looks like I hit a soft spot. Sorry I hurt your feelers there, little guy. :)

There are only 3 things that are overtuned on DE:

• Damage of Malicious Backstab
• Damage of Death's Judgement
• Stealth on Dodge

If these things were adjusted down, you would still whine. So what's your point in continuing to whine now?

@SoV.5139 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@Trepidation Lost.3469 said:

@shortcake.8659 said:In before all the deadeye players tell you to easily counter them by using the 30 revealed skills every minute that every class you are playing has access to.

@shortcake.8659 said:In before all the deadeye players tell you to easily counter them by using the 30 revealed skills every minute that every class you are playing has access to.

Oh and in theory this could work! But unless reveal freezes them on the spot they evade spam away for about 3k range ?

It doesn't seem like you've played DE or know much about it. Can you tell me how they can "evade spam away for about 3k range"?

Spam weapon skill which has (evade frames) + heal skill (evade frames) + roll for initiative (evade frames) + weapon skill again (spam-able for even moAr evade frames) + dodge (evade frames + stealth). Most dont even need a short bow for distance escape, which is the signature mobility weapon for most other thief builds.

Perhaps it is you who hasnt played it, if you thought it wasnt possible.

Even in a hilariously skewed situation where you can beat the DE player 9/10 times, they just need to reset the fight pushing the same few buttons to escape, and the 1/10 times where you make a mistake you dont get to move away, but instead take the L.

Simply put, this is a magnet for low skill play.

Deny it.

You can't be more wrong, perhaps you should try playing DE. The DE build that is complained about and that the OP is referring to uses D/P and Rifle. Can you point out where the weapon evade frames on that are? Are you possibly thinking of Rifle 4, Death's retreat? Nope, no evade frames there. Just a 5 initiative - 600 range backwards port. Spammable? Well now, this DE build only has 12 initiative. so I guess you can "spam" it ...twice?

Roll for Initiative? Again, you are wrong here. That build doesn't use that skill, and if any variation does, they are so far and few in between that you have no grounds to attempt to use it's existence in your favor.

Withdraw? 500 units and that's being generous with the terrain.

Lets recap:2x Rifle4 (if they even have 10 initiative at that time) = 1200 (ZERO EVADE FRAMES)Withdraw = 500 unitsTotal = 1700 units (well within reach of Ranger longbow, fyi)

I'm not denying that permastealth DE is low-skilled play. I'm simply questioning the credibility of players making outrageous claims and attempting to back them up with

beyond

incorrect information.

Classic moving the goal posts fallacy. You challenged that a DE couldnt spam evades to get to 3K distance. Now that its pointed out that its easy to do, you move the goal posts to restricting it to "that build" as if theres only one DE build in existence. Add false dichotomy to the list of fallacy here, for the loss.

My information is factually correct as not only are all the skills I listed available to DE, and have evade frames adding up to well over the 3K you challenged for, but also indicated by moving the goal posts rather than actually addressing what was posted. Youre like the lawyer in a court who moves to make the method of damning evidence found on the client inadmissible, after challenging for evidence first and having that backfire horribly. Should have just replied with a concession.

No sir, the argument against DE is logically sound. Its a low skill floor magnet which is difficult to counter even with multiplicitively higher skill level play.

[Gandrogh.1530]

deadeye is kinda like a longbow ranger. They are on the same spot but ranger have pet and boon and deydeye stealth. You just don't like playing against stealth, obvious reasons.

And what about mirage ?