Things ruining WvW

[Some Call Me Tim.2319]

@Trepidation Lost.3469 said:Dead eyes.There hasn’t never been anything more broken than the current invisible on dodge 1shot kill build that we have plaguing WVW at the moment, there’s never been a more sure fire way to shift a battle in ones favour than having a deadeye join you ( even the complete morons running it can kill skilled players without any effort)And as for countering it you have to get someone in your party to have reveal alongside having your own dead eye to kill them back, if you manage to get one low they 3k range away spamming the rifle backwards evaded then dodge for invis and repeat...it’s a 0 skill play style that needs to be fixed.Condo thief requires more skill than this and so does condi mirage and that’s saying somthing.

lol. I have lost count of the noob deadeyes I have killed. So many people believe like you and try to gank my soulbeast only to lay dead seconds later. Only good players kill me.. the scrubs playing deadeye, mesmer, engi etc just die fast.

[Turk.5460]

@Widmo.3186 said:How to fix the most handicapped class atm with 3 steps.

That title actually belongs to Core Warrior. That's been the go-to handicap build for the unskilled for years. :)

[kash.9213]

@Widmo.3186 said:How to fix the most handicapped class atm with 3 steps.

1. Remove stealth on dodge
2. ???
3. ProfitMaybe then it will need actually 2 hands to be played, who knows. We will find out after summer balance patch, so be ready!

You say remove stealth on dodge as if most thieves in on these forums haven't suggested that already. Would you actually not have a problem with the class anymore if the devs made that change?

[DemonSeed.3528]

@kash.9213 said:You say remove stealth on dodge as if most thieves in on these forums haven't suggested that already. Would you actually not have a problem with the class anymore if the devs made that change?

I think the people that have a problem with thief in general will always find something they dislike about it. Actually that goes for anyone with a particular dislike for certain classes. They want to see the changes that basically stop making people use them and won't be happy until the number of players get culled.

[Catchyfx.5768]

@"Odokuro.5049" said:But what most of these discussions, not only on Thieves but other classes/builds fail to see is, "What this class is, what is it's role, and how lore/story plays in the development of their skill/ability arsenal.".

Sure. Fair enough. There isnt any place where thieves shines. I just dont like play agianst it. You are catching the wind. There should be bigger window where thief is visible. I dont ask for something huge. After all its sniper he have to 1shot you. Sniper with teleportation device. Sniper with teleportation device on drugs.

[Tyyphoon.5301]

@Trepidation Lost.3469 said:Dead eyes.There hasn’t never been anything more broken than the current invisible on dodge 1shot kill build that we have plaguing WVW at the moment, there’s never been a more sure fire way to shift a battle in ones favour than having a deadeye join you ( even the complete morons running it can kill skilled players without any effort)And as for countering it you have to get someone in your party to have reveal alongside having your own dead eye to kill them back, if you manage to get one low they 3k range away spamming the rifle backwards evaded then dodge for invis and repeat...it’s a 0 skill play style that needs to be fixed.Condo thief requires more skill than this and so does condi mirage and that’s saying somthing.

Sounds like OP has a L2P issue. Once ANET stops pigeon-holing thieves into a specific build/setup (i.e. DE), we can return to having a civil discussion. Til then, please keep getting afk-stomped by fellow DEs. #MeToo

[Dawdler.8521]

@Tyyphoon.5301 said:

@Trepidation Lost.3469 said:Dead eyes.There hasn’t never been anything more broken than the current invisible on dodge 1shot kill build that we have plaguing WVW at the moment, there’s never been a more sure fire way to shift a battle in ones favour than having a deadeye join you ( even the complete morons running it can kill skilled players without any effort)And as for countering it you have to get someone in your party to have reveal alongside having your own dead eye to kill them back, if you manage to get one low they 3k range away spamming the rifle backwards evaded then dodge for invis and repeat...it’s a 0 skill play style that needs to be fixed.Condo thief requires more skill than this and so does condi mirage and that’s saying somthing.

Sounds like OP has a L2P issue. Once ANET stops pigeon-holing thieves into a specific build/setup (i.e. DE), we can return to having a civil discussion. Til then, please keep getting afk-stomped by fellow DEs. #MeToo

Yes the thief that's being pigeon holed into deadeye when daredevil is still 5x as common to see.

Why do this remind me of people seeing condi mirages as the only existing roamer...

[Israel.7056]

I keep waiting to run into broken deadeyes after all these threads but almost all the ones I've fought have been free kills basically idgi.

[Tyyphoon.5301]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Tyyphoon.5301 said:

@"Trepidation Lost.3469" said:Dead eyes.There hasn’t never been anything more broken than the current invisible on dodge 1shot kill build that we have plaguing WVW at the moment, there’s never been a more sure fire way to shift a battle in ones favour than having a deadeye join you ( even the complete morons running it can kill skilled players without any effort)And as for countering it you have to get someone in your party to have reveal alongside having your own dead eye to kill them back, if you manage to get one low they 3k range away spamming the rifle backwards evaded then dodge for invis and repeat...it’s a 0 skill play style that needs to be fixed.Condo thief requires more skill than this and so does condi mirage and that’s saying somthing.

Sounds like OP has a L2P issue. Once ANET stops pigeon-holing thieves into a specific build/setup (i.e. DE), we can return to having a civil discussion. Til then, please keep getting afk-stomped by fellow DEs. #MeToo

Yes the thief that's being pigeon holed into deadeye when daredevil is still 5x as common to see.

Why do this remind me of people seeing condi mirages as the only existing roamer...

You should do well to explain that sentiment to these players:https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/56399/deadeye-needs-nerf#latesthttps://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/55966/thieves-ruin-wvw#latestAnd ofc, this thread: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/57721/things-ruining-wvw#latest

@"Israel.7056" said:I keep waiting to run into broken deadeyes after all these threads but almost all the ones I've fought have been free kills basically idgi.I just dont think you've ran into the same "stealth afk-stomping" DEs the OP has reluctantly encountered. You probably should continue searching for that unicorn...

[Shroud.2307]

@Israel.7056 said:I keep waiting to run into broken deadeyes after all these threads but almost all the ones I've fought have been free kills basically idgi.

I've found them a loooot easier to manage after the recent changes and I'm seeing a lot less as well. Their entire concept is still extremely un-fun to play against and they're still capable of one shotting you out of no where if you're not paying attention but, at least if you're prepared they're much less of an issue now.

[Sleepwalker.1398]

OP...what class do you play?If its FOTM Reaper and you have difficulty, then its clearly a l2p issue.

[coro.3176]

You have to admit, it's pretty stupid when you're roaming and you come across a perma-stealth deadeye that

• will kill you eventually if you don't have perfect reflexes and good latency
• you can't realistically punish because even if you land reveal, they'll just remove it and restealth
• can keep this up indefinitely

Like, it's not the most OP thing in the game, but it is really unfun gameplay.

I'd suggest removing the ability to cancel reveal. If you land a reveal, it ought to actually work on the one class you really need it for.

I'd also possibly increase the cast time or make DJ blockable. That's just a little too difficult to dodge when it comes out of stealth with quickness. It is physically impossible to dodge given normal human reaction times and ~100ms latency.

[Trepidation Lost.3469]

@Sleepwalker.1398 said:OP...what class do you play?If its FOTM Reaper and you have difficulty, then its clearly a l2p issue.

Mate I have an op condi rev build that has 4050 armour in mallyx, it still takes huge dmg from deadeye.I also run a tanky custom holo build with sword shield( that’s useless due to u blockable)I also have a 3k armor soulbeast that deadeyes take 60-80% hp in a single hit.I’ve got every class geared to the max with good builds all made for roaming...I’ve roamed and theorycrafted builds which are pretty op since release...If I’m having a problem with somthign it’s because it’s broken and needs fixing, not because I’m a noob who doesn’t understand the mechanics or has some noob build with rare gear.

[Trepidation Lost.3469]

@Tyyphoon.5301 said:

@Trepidation Lost.3469 said:Dead eyes.There hasn’t never been anything more broken than the current invisible on dodge 1shot kill build that we have plaguing WVW at the moment, there’s never been a more sure fire way to shift a battle in ones favour than having a deadeye join you ( even the complete morons running it can kill skilled players without any effort)And as for countering it you have to get someone in your party to have reveal alongside having your own dead eye to kill them back, if you manage to get one low they 3k range away spamming the rifle backwards evaded then dodge for invis and repeat...it’s a 0 skill play style that needs to be fixed.Condo thief requires more skill than this and so does condi mirage and that’s saying somthing.

Sounds like OP has a L2P issue. Once ANET stops pigeon-holing thieves into a specific build/setup (i.e. DE), we can return to having a civil discussion. Til then, please keep getting afk-stomped by fellow DEs. #MeToo

I have a learn to play issue? Please tell me how to fight this then. I’m eager to hear your response, I play each class, so be sure to tell me which builds are good for facing it etc.And why.

[kash.9213]

@coro.3176 said:You have to admit, it's pretty stupid when you're roaming and you come across a perma-stealth deadeye that

• will kill you eventually if you don't have perfect reflexes and good latency
• you can't realistically punish because even if you land reveal, they'll just remove it and restealth
• can keep this up indefinitely

Like, it's not the most OP thing in the game, but it is really unfun gameplay.

I'd suggest removing the ability to cancel reveal. If you land a reveal, it ought to actually work on the one class you really need it for.

I'd also possibly increase the cast time or make DJ blockable. That's just a little too difficult to dodge when it comes out of stealth with quickness. It is physically impossible to dodge given normal human reaction times and ~100ms latency.

I'd be fine with Shadow Meld instead giving residual stealth modifiers for Shadow Arts and other traits after being revealed so we'd still be targetable but not totally canceling out an entire trait line. I'd also be fine with replacing dodge to stealth with something more like original Silent Scope or at least something not so frequently sustainable but we need something legit there since we already had a solid Elite spec axed for this new deadeye because people complained about Malice build up before. I don't like DJ being a stealth skill but it's not all that difficult to dodge, even under quickness you should know to have dodge ready once you get Marked. Lag and shitty pings suck for anyone but don't gradually nerf a class into a joke because some people are playing through tin cans and string.

[Sleepwalker.1398]

@Trepidation Lost.3469 said:

@Sleepwalker.1398 said:OP...what class do you play?If its FOTM Reaper and you have difficulty, then its clearly a l2p issue.

Mate I have an op condi rev build that has 4050 armour in mallyx, it still takes huge dmg from deadeye.I also run a tanky custom holo build with sword shield( that’s useless due to u blockable)I also have a 3k armor soulbeast that deadeyes take 60-80% hp in a single hit.I’ve got every class geared to the max with good builds all made for roaming...I’ve roamed and theorycrafted builds which are pretty op since release...If I’m having a problem with somthign it’s because it’s broken and needs fixing, not because I’m a noob who doesn’t understand the mechanics or has some noob build with rare gear.

I fail to see how you can die to DE as Soulbeast or Rev.Rev: Phase Traversal + Shackling Wave = dead DE or after Shackling Wave swap staff Surge of the Mists. Or nothing a good old CoR can't fix.Soulbeast: this is the best class to fight DE with. Rapid Fire follows them. You only need to land 1 good Rapid Fire.Holo...i don't play engi class.

Edit: If you play condi, then good on the DE for getting you :)

[coro.3176]

@kash.9213 said:

@"coro.3176" said:You have to admit, it's pretty stupid when you're roaming and you come across a perma-stealth deadeye that

• will kill you eventually if you don't have perfect reflexes and good latency
• you can't realistically punish because even if you land reveal, they'll just remove it and restealth
• can keep this up indefinitely

Like, it's not the most OP thing in the game, but it is really unfun gameplay.

I'd suggest removing the ability to cancel reveal. If you land a reveal, it ought to actually work on the one class you really need it for.

I'd also possibly increase the cast time or make DJ blockable. That's just a little too difficult to dodge when it comes out of stealth with quickness. It is physically impossible to dodge given normal human reaction times and ~100ms latency.

I'd be fine with Shadow Meld instead giving residual stealth modifiers for Shadow Arts and other traits after being revealed so we'd still be targetable but not totally canceling out an entire trait line. I'd also be fine with replacing dodge to stealth with something more like original Silent Scope or at least something not so frequently sustainable but we need something legit there since we already had a solid Elite spec axed for this new deadeye because people complained about Malice build up before. I don't like DJ being a stealth skill but it's not all that difficult to dodge, even under quickness you should know to have dodge ready once you get Marked. Lag and kitten pings suck for anyone but don't gradually nerf a class into a joke because some people are playing through tin cans and string.

I've tested this with a friend. I can't dodge it even if I know it's coming, have my finger on the dodge button and am literally doing nothing else except waiting for DJ out of stealth. I consider myself a decent player with at least average reaction times and can reliably dodge most other attacks in the game.

DJ with quickness: 375ms cast time

• my average latency: 100ms (that's not tin cans and strings. That's just the speed of the internet over the distance it has to travel to ANet's servers. I'm west coast NA)
• average human reaction time: 250ms Test it yourself: https://www.humanbenchmark.com/tests/reactiontime/

So we're looking at a buffer of 25ms here. Hundredths of a second. Good luck.

(It does get a bit easier if the DE is far away because there is some travel time for the projectile, but then harder because you also have to factor in chaotic fights that aren't always 1v1.)

In any case, if it's not physically impossible, it's at least not easy. The deadeye will eventually win if you stick around because they can just keep restealthing indefinitely and keep trying. The only counterplay at the moment is to leave.. and that's no fun.

[coro.3176]

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[FaboBabo.3581]

Reflects are pretty valuable this days. Love to kill hunters and Thiefs with it.

[Klypto.1703]

Meh people will whine about thief even when they were nerfed down to what they were during the HoT era of the game. Its just even more with shadow meld and still players will not utilize the counters available to them. They will just make excuses to try to get it to go away although good thief players find ways to overcome and adapt because that is the nature of a thief and they will still die to thieves because of the fact they refuse to adapt.

[Sleepwalker.1398]

@Trepidation Lost.3469 said:

@Sleepwalker.1398 said:

@Trepidation Lost.3469 said:

@Sleepwalker.1398 said:OP...what class do you play?If its FOTM Reaper and you have difficulty, then its clearly a l2p issue.

Mate I have an op condi rev build that has 4050 armour in mallyx, it still takes huge dmg from deadeye.I also run a tanky custom holo build with sword shield( that’s useless due to u blockable)I also have a 3k armor soulbeast that deadeyes take 60-80% hp in a single hit.I’ve got every class geared to the max with good builds all made for roaming...I’ve roamed and theorycrafted builds which are pretty op since release...If I’m having a problem with somthign it’s because it’s broken and needs fixing, not because I’m a noob who doesn’t understand the mechanics or has some noob build with rare gear.

I fail to see how you can die to DE as Soulbeast or Rev.Rev: Phase Traversal + Shackling Wave = dead DE or after Shackling Wave swap staff Surge of the Mists. Or nothing a good old CoR can't fix.Soulbeast: this is the best class to fight DE with. Rapid Fire follows them. You only need to land 1 good Rapid Fire.Holo...i don't play engi class.

Edit: If you play condi, then good on the DE for getting you :)

Wow, and as a rev u are squishy as fudgeThis is a trash response. I don’t play longbow on soulbeast, the build that souls beast runs with six em and all the other multipliers is also for morons.Your answer was basically play somthing broken to beat somthign broken, do you not see the problem?

Seems you want to be carried by toughness/condi builds and not looking to try other things to overcome the problem.All spec aside from weaver/renegade are op from PoF.You don't want to play them then that's your problem, no need to come to forum and bash a class asking for it to be nerfed to the ground.

[XenesisII.1540]

Obviously people just don't know how to deal with stealth or other broken mechanics properly.Just don't play pvp and you won't have to deal with the broken imbalance, a thief can't kill you if they can't attack you!

[VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.]

deadeye does not need a nerf. Deadeye needs to be deleted.

If anet has a balancing team, they should stop hiding and just admit that they screwed up, there is no short term fix (apart from removing stealth entirely - fine with me) and then just remove the spec. Deadeye was broken in the beta, deadeye was broken on PoF release - and a year later it is still broken.

Just stop it anet. You screwed up, you had a year to fix the mess, you didn't do anything about it.

[sephiroth.4217]

I hate DE, its the only class my zerg cant kill strait away and its op broken that they can escape my zerg.

Im so sick of these OP deadeyes killing me on my zerker ele when im trying to get back to my zerg, class needs to be deleted.

/s

[Widmo.3186]

@kash.9213 said:You say remove stealth on dodge as if most thieves in on these forums haven't suggested that already. Would you actually not have a problem with the class anymore if the devs made that change?

Idc about one-shot and glass-cannon builds as long as it takes even a tiny bit of skill to be played with (for example, freshair, ofc you can do a macro, but still you need to poke your brain cells to do sth more than trading 1 for 1 every fight, right?). Im not saying that whole class is looking bad, no, just imo concept of high damage (with close range or far range, sth for everyone) class with 1-finger access to perma stealth is not looking good.And answering your question, I don't have any problems with this class now and wouldn't have any after change. Just dodge lol. But as I said, in my opinion it deserves bit nerfs, don't you agree?

@DemonSeed.3528 said:

I think the people that have a problem with thief in general will always find something they dislike about it. Actually that goes for anyone with a particular dislike for certain classes. They want to see the changes that basically stop making people use them and won't be happy until the number of players get culled.

I hope you mentioned community, not personally me, because I also main thief ;p. Ive never said core, DD with any build (s/d,dd,d/p etc. etc.) was OP and in need of nerf. But yes, I agree that many people complained about this class and they received coveted nerfs. Thats fine, meta changed many times from DD to core, then back and then again upside down.Thief is fun to play if you're good at it and use brain instead of smashing buttons. Also if you know how it works, then you shouldn't have any problems with outplaying it (if your class is available to do it ofc). But as I said, compare other specs to DE, its survivability and damage potential. You can't (or at least shouldn't) have access to everything at imba level. That's why I suggest removing stealth on dodge, then you can deal w/e damage you want, just work for it instead of standing still and pushing 1 button.