Things ruining WvW

[DemonSeed.3528]

@Widmo.3186 said:

Nah I meant in general, was not aimed at anyone in particular sorry.

[Aeolus.3615]

@Trepidation Lost.3469 said:It will be nerfed for sure, it wasn’t a problem before stealth on dodge became a thing.It needs a cooldown ...

imo the unblcokable skill its the only issue, being high damage + unblockable, ddeyes should need to know when to use their big hit.That and probably make ddeye skill buff only the rifle, rather than help empowering other weapon on swap.

[Safandula.8723]

@Riko.9214 said:

@Trepidation Lost.3469 said:

Thief has always been great for 1v1

Lol what? Running away is what thief is best for, at equal skill any other prof has better duelling builds (except mb necro vs DE, but that is very specific issue and SoulBeast would stomp those necro much harder for example).

Thief IS good at 1v1, u Just need a lot of skill ;)

And Yes, All the deadeyes on forum, u should admit, that stealth on Dodge is untcounterable and need fix. Daredevil d/p stealth can be easilly countered, s/d 5 stealth has counterplay, shadow refuge has counterplay. But stealth on Dodge? Nope sry. And plz. Dont say there is easy counterplay to stun them and os fast...PS. Im playing mainly thief that has no Real issue with DE, but i can easilly say it is broken

[enkidu.5937]

@"Trepidation Lost.3469" said:Dead eyes.Back from a two-year break, I laughed hard when I learned the new "Meta" with braindeadeye, noobbeast, and 15k unblockables in your face xD

I understand that A-net also wants the noobs to enjoy the game, as well. Therefore, Im totally fine with noob builds that depend on chance, not skill. Not everyone is able to manage 30 skills. So, if you are only able to push 1-2 buttons for stealth / invuln etc., and another 1-2 buttons for 1500 range unblockable rail guns, ok. But shouldnt the regular Meta be real fights, and not only 5-second assaults all day long? I mean even backstabbers had at least some kind of skill ceiling . . .

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

@Aeolus.3615 said:

@Trepidation Lost.3469 said:It will be nerfed for sure, it wasn’t a problem before stealth on dodge became a thing.It needs a cooldown ...

imo the unblcokable skill its the only issue, being high damage + unblockable, ddeyes should need to know when to use their big hit.That and probably make ddeye skill buff only the rifle, rather than help empowering other weapon on swap.

We do know when to use our big hit; when you rely on blocks to facetank.

[sneakytails.5629]

Before you had to play around our blocks and reflects, now you dont, people need to stop acting like it takes more skill now, its takes less. Your job is much easier because of the unblockable.

[Timey.3648]

I have no idea why ppl think deadeye is still OP, imo it's as dead as core or d/p daredevil. the initiative nerf on double tap was a big issue ( which was also your main damage, if the ennemy you're fighting knows how to dodge DJ aka easiest skill to dodge.). the only way a deadeye can kill you now is if he hits DJ. if you dodge that, he wont have enough damage/initiative to kill you, then as you know that a deadeye will be in 95% of the time full zerker, it means only 11.5k HP, if you have a reveal skill, you'll be able to kill the deadeye even before he realises that he's been revealed (not mentioning that deadeye players are only braindead chickens who only hope for a one shot ). I literally have 0 problem fighting any deadeyes even without reveal skill, I used to main deadeye ( and thief before that ) even before they nerf all the specs to the ground. Thief incl. Deadeye is an useless spec atm, classes such as holo, slb, condi mirage is much more broken. The only thing that may be annoying is the perma stealth, but if you nerf the stealth access then this class/spec will become even more useless than it actually is, lol.

[Blocki.4931]

The only thing currently ruining this mode in my opinion is the amount of condi Daredevils that I see. Can't do anything besides stowing my weapon if they ever catch me outside my zerg, like while I walk to get there.

[sarkysek.1085]

@Trepidation Lost.3469 said:Dead eyes.There hasn’t never been anything more broken than the current invisible on dodge 1shot kill build that we have plaguing WVW at the moment, there’s never been a more sure fire way to shift a battle in ones favour than having a deadeye join you ( even the complete morons running it can kill skilled players without any effort)And as for countering it you have to get someone in your party to have reveal alongside having your own dead eye to kill them back, if you manage to get one low they 3k range away spamming the rifle backwards evaded then dodge for invis and repeat...it’s a 0 skill play style that needs to be fixed.Condo thief requires more skill than this and so does condi mirage and that’s saying somthing.

As a roamer who's constantly running into this kittening piece of kitten trash spec anywhere I go, I say nerf this kittening broken kitten back to where it came from. Getting oneshot from stealth while being CC'd/immobed is apparently ArenaNet's idea of entertaining gameplay. (And yes, I wrote those kittens myself to spare the GMs some work haha.)

[Elementalist Owner.7802]

The problem with deadeye is you can be the best player in the game, with 400 IQ and the reflexes of Usain Bolt, but there is literally nothing you can do to prevent the one-shot malicious backstab from stealth. You simply have no way of knowing that its coming. It is a big problem right now that has put me off roaming for the time being. The roaming scene will continue to die unless this issue is addressed.

[Blocki.4931]

@Elementalist Owner.7802 said:The problem with deadeye is you can be the best player in the game, with 400 IQ and the reflexes of Usain Bolt, but there is literally nothing you can do to prevent the one-shot malicious backstab from stealth. You simply have no way of knowing that its coming. It is a big problem right now that has put me off roaming for the time being. The roaming scene will continue to die unless this issue is addressed.

You can always try to win distance. They don't exactly have a blink at that point and the backstab itself is low ranged.

[DeadlySynz.3471]

Spellbreakers rune WvW more than deadeyes. At least you can still swing or spam attacks on the spot and hit a deadeye. An entire zerg can attack a spellbreaker standing there and see "0 0 0 0 0 0" "block block block block block" "immune immune immune immune immune" "0 0 0 0 0 0", followed by a barrage of healing numbers, then followed by "0 0 0 0 0" until they are sitting back in their zerg.

Here's a fun idea, take the 2 most toxic classes in WvW and make 1 of them kill the other with ease. Allow thieves a build (doesn't matter what build) to have never-ending unblockable attacks against spellbreakers. Then whenever a SB tries to pop any type of damage mitigation skill, thieves now do 10x the amount of damage to them, they previously did. Effectively rendering them useless and hopefully ridding WvW of that class for good. The trade-off, have the build remove stealth. Trade stealth to effectively render SB's helpless to thieves.

That way we can finally see an end to SB's and thieves finally won't be able to endlessly be invisible forever.

[geist.4126]

A few seconds of invulnerability are killing your zerg vs a Spellbreaker? Maybe just wait those and kill him. Good luck doing this with a class that stealthes and teleports away. On my mesmer I'm gone before the zerg knows which direction - same goes for thieves.As a warrior you will need three skills and dodges to escape and you will be constantly pressured.

[Lord Trejgon.2809]

tbh in all of roaming I have ever did I've encountered "problematic" deadeye only twice. first one tried to dirsupt capture fo a tower from a group of 5, but failed via smart use of terrain on our side, and the other one was not even running rifle as far as I could tell (dude was using double pistol and I was on my daredevil in that specific encounter)

and considering how many of deadeyes even are seen in wvw (from my experience, and information gathered from guildmates and this forum) I'd say it's hardly even in scope to effectively "ruin wvw" as OP claims. (is it balanced? can't really say, but it's definitelly not ruining whole mode)

[Aeolus.3615]

@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

@Aeolus.3615 said:

@Trepidation Lost.3469 said:It will be nerfed for sure, it wasn’t a problem before stealth on dodge became a thing.It needs a cooldown ...

imo the unblcokable skill its the only issue, being high damage + unblockable, ddeyes should need to know when to use their big hit.That and probably make ddeye skill buff only the rifle, rather than help empowering other weapon on swap.

We do know when to use our big hit; when you rely on blocks to facetank.

With a unblockable dealing alot of damage u dont need to care much for that.Just to pretend u care to pay atentione when u see u cant deal with targets normally by just spamming-.... :\

Well its friendly scrub game on the offensive (even for the class i play):.. that's what the balance is about.

[kash.9213]

@Widmo.3186 said:

@kash.9213 said:You say remove stealth on dodge as if most thieves in on these forums haven't suggested that already. Would you actually not have a problem with the class anymore if the devs made that change?

Idc about one-shot and glass-cannon builds as long as it takes even a tiny bit of skill to be played with (for example, freshair, ofc you can do a macro, but still you need to poke your brain cells to do sth more than trading 1 for 1 every fight, right?). Im not saying that whole class is looking bad, no, just imo concept of high damage (with close range or far range, sth for everyone) class with 1-finger access to perma stealth is not looking good.And answering your question, I don't have any problems with this class now and wouldn't have any after change.

Just dodge

lol. But as I said, in my opinion it deserves bit nerfs, don't you agree?

In the very post you're quoting I just said that, most people on the thief forum could care less I think between the two Silent Scope versions. Regardless of whatever changes could be made, people would complain about perma stealth deadeye even if they get killed by a non perma stealth build if they see stealth even once. I preferred the version that kept my position so I mostly hold dodges for zergs and map travel, which it's great for by the way, not sure I'd want to lose that. Once you get used to using Snipers Cover with a group on the move, think a few steps ahead with Kneel and Free Action, and get more accurate with Deaths Retreat placement it becomes a really fun build to play. I'd rather have something other than dodge to stealth myself that wouldn't displace me but I mostly play WvW, whatever changes are made have to take pve into account.

[whoknocks.4935]

You must play a good roaming spec, know good your profession and deadeyes won't be an issue.I am still bronze rank, so I am not a veteral pro player of wvw with years of experience.

You must play smarter by playing stupid.

With my rev i killed plenty of high rank deadeye acting a bit "noob" like wasting my elite out of nowhere, placing dragon facet random, so they underestimated me, then when they were so sure to have an easy win, they became superficial, they started dodge less frequently, and on the right time when they were visible and kneeled, shiro stance, phase traversal, sword4 plus sword5 legend swap into sword3 downed, someone was already downed after sword4 and 5.They all whispered me calling me lucky noob and more hard words xD so satisfying.

With my soulbeast, sic'em into knockback rapid fire goodbye deadeye.

The trick is having range, at least one invuln big evade, a good teleport gap close skill.

The main thing is not to panic and don't waste your skills unless you are sure they will hit or they are needed for emergency.

Run at least 2500 armor and 20k plus health: this is just the average armor and hp you should have to avoid the instadowned malicious backstab with zero malice, you shouldn't get oneshotted if the deadeye didn't marked and stacked malice on you, if he does you know he is around and so you are aware of him.And you should never being hit by DJ so obvious sound and slow animation, so don't play with music on xD.

I know it's a pretty noob cheesy profession abused by noobs and so forgiving, but if you are decent at your class you won't be an easy prey for the noobeye.

[Bloodstealer.5978]

Another matchup with AG another matchup full of no clip hackers , underground un targetable hackers.. you name it AG use it.. cmon ANET this stuff is getting beyond the joke.. is this what's to expect when the reboot happens... this kind of stuff IS ruining WvW.

[Trepidation Lost.3469]

@"whoknocks.4935" said:You must play a good roaming spec, know good your profession and deadeyes won't be an issue.I am still bronze rank, so I am not a veteral pro player of wvw with years of experience.

You must play smarter by playing stupid.

With my rev i killed plenty of high rank deadeye acting a bit "noob" like wasting my elite out of nowhere, placing dragon facet random, so they underestimated me, then when they were so sure to have an easy win, they became superficial, they started dodge less frequently, and on the right time when they were visible and kneeled, shiro stance, phase traversal, sword4 plus sword5 legend swap into sword3 downed, someone was already downed after sword4 and 5.They all whispered me calling me lucky noob and more hard words xD so satisfying.

With my soulbeast, sic'em into knockback rapid fire goodbye deadeye.

The trick is having range, at least one invuln big evade, a good teleport gap close skill.

The main thing is not to panic and don't waste your skills unless you are sure they will hit or they are needed for emergency.

Run at least 2500 armor and 20k plus health: this is just the average armor and hp you should have to avoid the instadowned malicious backstab with zero malice, you shouldn't get oneshotted if the deadeye didn't marked and stacked malice on you, if he does you know he is around and so you are aware of him.And you should never being hit by DJ so obvious sound and slow animation, so don't play with music on xD.

I know it's a pretty noob cheesy profession abused by noobs and so forgiving, but if you are decent at your class you won't be an easy prey for the noobeye.

This was a waste of your time to type as itmade 0 contribution to the topic. Your argument for not needing deadeye is because you’ve killed some ... wow good one.Yes you’re bronze rank I can tell.I’ve mained roaming since the beginning of the game.

[Trepidation Lost.3469]

@"Lord Trejgon.2809" said:tbh in all of roaming I have ever did I've encountered "problematic" deadeye only twice. first one tried to dirsupt capture fo a tower from a group of 5, but failed via smart use of terrain on our side, and the other one was not even running rifle as far as I could tell (dude was using double pistol and I was on my daredevil in that specific encounter)

and considering how many of deadeyes even are seen in wvw (from my experience, and information gathered from guildmates and this forum) I'd say it's hardly even in scope to effectively "ruin wvw" as OP claims. (is it balanced? can't really say, but it's definitelly not ruining whole mode)

It ruining WvW is subjective sure.But just because you don’t experience it doesn’t mean it isn’t ruining WvW it just means you’re lucky to not have had the same experience as me like many have.

[DemonSeed.3528]

@Trepidation Lost.3469 said:

If you don't mind, what server and timezone do you play? I wouldn't mind checking out the deadeye situation there.

[Jski.6180]

One class support stab being too important. FB are too important for wvw alone. Other supports needs to have stab support on some level.

[whoknocks.4935]

@Trepidation Lost.3469 said:

@"whoknocks.4935" said:You must play a good roaming spec, know good your profession and deadeyes won't be an issue.I am still bronze rank, so I am not a veteral pro player of wvw with years of experience.

You must play smarter by playing stupid.

With my rev i killed plenty of high rank deadeye acting a bit "noob" like wasting my elite out of nowhere, placing dragon facet random, so they underestimated me, then when they were so sure to have an easy win, they became superficial, they started dodge less frequently, and on the right time when they were visible and kneeled, shiro stance, phase traversal, sword4 plus sword5 legend swap into sword3 downed, someone was already downed after sword4 and 5.They all whispered me calling me lucky noob and more hard words xD so satisfying.

With my soulbeast, sic'em into knockback rapid fire goodbye deadeye.

The trick is having range, at least one invuln big evade, a good teleport gap close skill.

The main thing is not to panic and don't waste your skills unless you are sure they will hit or they are needed for emergency.

Run at least 2500 armor and 20k plus health: this is just the average armor and hp you should have to avoid the instadowned malicious backstab with zero malice, you shouldn't get oneshotted if the deadeye didn't marked and stacked malice on you, if he does you know he is around and so you are aware of him.And you should never being hit by DJ so obvious sound and slow animation, so don't play with music on xD.

I know it's a pretty noob cheesy profession abused by noobs and so forgiving, but if you are decent at your class you won't be an easy prey for the noobeye.

This was a waste of your time to type as itmade 0 contribution to the topic. Your argument for not needing deadeye is because you’ve killed some ... wow good one.Yes you’re bronze rank I can tell.I’ve mained roaming since the beginning of the game.

Yeah and you answering my post is double 0 contribution to the topic.You mained roaming since the beginning of the game, you mained open world pve roaming definetely.If you die to a deadeye in a 1vs1 while roaming, you have a suboptimal build with zero armor, zero gap closers, zero range, zero reveal, zero CCs, and your hands are slow like a gibbon.You gotta a pretty solid l2p issue here.Now go stick to roaming in pve please, it's easier.

[Riko.9214]

@Safandula.8723 said:

@Riko.9214 said:

@Trepidation Lost.3469 said:

Thief has always been great for 1v1

Lol what? Running away is what thief is best for, at equal skill any other prof has better duelling builds (except mb necro vs DE, but that is very specific issue and SoulBeast would stomp those necro much harder for example).

Thief IS good at 1v1, u Just need a lot of skill ;)

And Yes, All the deadeyes on forum, u should admit, that stealth on Dodge is untcounterable and need fix. Daredevil d/p stealth can be easilly countered, s/d 5 stealth has counterplay, shadow refuge has counterplay. But stealth on Dodge? Nope sry. And plz. Dont say there is easy counterplay to stun them and os fast...PS. Im playing mainly thief that has no Real issue with DE, but i can easilly say it is broken

Skill is a thing for sure, but the problem is THIEF HAS TO BE HIGHER SKILL TO WIN OPTIMIZED BUILDS ON OTHER CLASSES. So yeah you can win 1v1 sure, but on EQUAL SKILL IT IS THE WORST PROFESSION when you fight rather then run.

I do not play DE btw, I play DD for thief + 4 other specs on different professions.

As for counterplay the argument is sorry but it is real BS. If you really want to have counterplay for everything then there should be consecutively counterplay for counterplay and so on and so on and so on. That chain never ends making the whole idea meaningless. Nothing should have a direct counterplay, rather just a means to play around which stealth has plenty already: channeled skills, aoe damage, blinding fields, aegis ... list goes on. Even blinking away would already make thief either not able to position for backstab or he would have to waist SS meaning he can not really escape for the next 50 seconds.

[gw niko.1049]

I don´t know how much you are right and to what extent this is a problem in todays wvw.

But I have to agree with what @"Odokuro.5049" wrote earlier. You have to consider what each classes rolle is and as far as I know, poeple havealways, realy always, be complaining about thieves. Not even only in Guild Wars 2 but also in WoW or probably other games too.Because of that I don´t know how much you are right.

Thief has to be a very mobile, relativly fragil, inv, initation burst, excape class. Initation burst but not realy 1 vs 1 capability. That´s it´s rolle.The permadodging is a problem in the game and especually with the thief, yes.

But the initaion burst should almost, almost, oneshot you. That is how the thief works. But If you fail the initation you should have consequenses and the permadoding, that works even when you are immobelized and thieves have stunbreak too, makes it impossible to give thieves fatal bursts.I was used to play berserk mesmer in the past. There was oneshot-backstab-thief played at that time. And if he didn´t get me down with the first 2 hits or so, backstabb killed me to 90%, I was able to stun him and oneshot him back. It was skillfull at that time. This is not possible anymore.

I posted a Discusion about the problems I see with the combat in the game, not just in pvp, it also effects other gamemodes.Watch it out if you want.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/57860/the-fundamental-problem-in-pvp-combat#latest