Best 2018 mmo???

[Turin.6921]

If you read the article carefully the MMO of the year was based on player voting. The first two were ESO and FF. The rest obviously came lower in the vote (which probably incuded WoW, gw etc) and that is the site readers's choice. And there was no other category that gw2 would be eligible. This is literally a non issue.

[Goettel.4389]

Well, I play GW2 (which to me is the best current MMO) and don't read that site, but they're welcome to their opinion ofc.

[Opopanax.1803]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Opopanax.1803 said:Gw2 didn't have a 2018 release.Neither did ESO or FFXIV, whats your point?

ESO did for sure. I don't follow FF so couldn't speak to that one.

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

@zealex.9410 said:

@"Lambent.6375" said:They just released this article sorta trashing the game, so ......

https://www.mmorpg.com/guild-wars-2/columns/is-it-time-for-guild-wars-3-1000013321

The article isn't top quality tbh. Many of gripes author has with game have little to do with it's age and more to do with direction it took. He does make good points on several issues such as dumbed down traits, or imbalance and elite specs not making it better.

Those aren't however issues related to game age. If the graphics were getting too dated to look at, the core systems were totally outdated or the game was on it's last legs in terms of playerbase - then such a statement would make sense.

Currently however it's the opposite of that - graphics are good, even if not mindblowing like at time of launch, the art direction is extremely strong and offsets the dating engine. Which still easily stands the test of time - our characters don't have their armors painted on them, and look like humans (or whatever race they are) without us having to fill the gaps with imagination or calling it super deformed style.

Core systems innovated MMO genre and are the current standard holders that still many MMO don't uphold yet (shared harvesting nodes, shared exp and loot, event - driven map exploration and combat, npcs doing something and not just standing at quest hub). Combat is still great, fluid, and action oriented, with new specs adding more depth.

I'm guessing that autor of article wants game fixed rather then truly feeling it's outdated, but coming to conclusion it's not gonna happen, he shoots for nearest best thing - new gw3 build from scratch without the legacy of bad choices made integral part of game like in GW2.

[Medvedovka.8523]

Wait, but isnt gw2 jumping puzzles game, not an mmo.

[Ashantara.8731]

@"Lambent.6375" said:They just released this article sorta trashing the game, so ......

https://www.mmorpg.com/guild-wars-2/columns/is-it-time-for-guild-wars-3-1000013321

Well, that article makes valid points. I am still hoping the devs will come to their senses and do a complete overhaul of this game, as I don't want to see a new GW - mainly because I dread the thought of GW3 taking place even further into the future, with technology taking away the last bit of fun left that any decent MMO of the fantasy genre provides. I don't want to have a half-baked sci-fi MMO, I want the feel of GW1 back, preferably combined with the fun of personalized adventure that was promised when GW2's release was being advertized.

Edit: What I'd like to see, in addition to personalized stories, is them throwing away the current profession and skill system and going back to GW1's, with skills unrelated to equipped weapons, a two-class option and no elite specs (that always lead to endless rebalancing to no avail), with upcoming expansions providing new "homes" to create new characters who would start there instead of in Kryta, and the return of some dear professions from GW1. I don't see it happen, but that's what I wish for. ;)

[Vayne.8563]

@obcan.1470 said:You are delusional if you consider GW2 to be even decent mmo at this point.

Strange, I've played a lot of MMOs and for a lot of people this is not only the best MMO, but the only MMO. I guess it depends on what you're looking for in an MMO.

Too many people think their definition of an MMO is THE definition of an MMO. Like it has to have open world PvP or it has to be centered on raids. But in the early days of MMOs, it was a persistent world that actually defined MMOs. MMOs weren't defined by instances. They were defined by having a persistent world were you could see hundreds of other players.

And in games like WoW, a lot of people got to end game, after leveling, sat in a queue and waited for their instance to pop...and people think that's an MMO or that's okay for an MMO. More people have probably walked away from that without raiding than have ever played any other MMO. It's not the only definition.

But if you're looking for an MMO focused on open world cooperation,. I can't think of a better MMO than Guild Wars 2. It's why I'm here.

[Grim West.3194]

GW2 is still the best mmo out there imo. It's the one I spend the most time in even after all these years. Not playing a lot lately but I take a lot of breaks.

ESO is fun in short doses, same with FFXIV and WoW (before BFA). I play around in a lot of mmos but rarely last long and always come back to GW2.

[Fallesafe.5932]

A few people already elaborated on these points much better than I would have. But, for me... the biggest failure of this game is that it rejected the "gear treadmill," vision of character-progression, and replaced it with... nothing.

I've never played a game before where every time I log on, I feel such a longing to immerse myself in the world, but can't find any reason to do it. This game is a Massively Multiplayer Online Dead-End.

[Cyninja.2954]

@Adenin.5973 said:I just want WoW in the GW2 engine (or something even better of course) with the GW2 combat and mounts and detailed world environments, garderobe system, dye system etc. Just with the amount of manpower of Blizzard, the WoW artstyle, the entire lore, races, classes dungeons, raids etc

That's just it, and I am happy you realized this yourself, you WANT WoW. Most GW2 player do NOT WANT WoW. We play GW2 because we do NOT WANT WoW.

Imagine if I went over to the WoW boards and demanded that Blizzard:

• stop gear progression (which is interesting since classic servers without constant progression is of actual interest to some people, let's see how that works out)
• remove the subscription but implement a way more expansive cash shop

How does that make me a WoW player? It makes me a GW2 player in the wrong game. You are a WoW player in the wrong game.

@Adenin.5973 said:And I am also absolutely sick of the GW2 cash shop btw. PPl here praise Anet all day for how great their pay model is but I am telling you the cash shop ruined the already lacking reward system in this game. Sad to see that Blizzard turns out to maybe go down the same route, you just pay 12€ every month on top of it.

You don't "just pay 12€ every month on top". The subscription is the main monetization behind WoW. The cash shop items there are just because they can milk even more money out of their players. WoW makes a huge bulk of their revenue from those 12€ and it allows for them to keep the lights on.

No one here loves the gem store. People are happy that Arenanet is able to manage so far with sticking mostly to cosmetics (but a change and stronger push to gem sales is noticeable). There is thousands of examples, even in the MMORPG genre, where this is not the case and the developer or publisher put out insane pay-to-win or customer unfriendly monetization in place.

You are literally complaining about Arenanet being able to provide a not subscription based product while being one of the most customer friendly developers in the market (as far as the gem store goes). That is mental.

[Goettel.4389]

@"Fallesafe.5932" said:A few people already elaborated on these points much better than I would have. But, for me... the biggest failure of this game is that it rejected the "gear treadmill," vision of character-progression, and replaced it with... nothing.

I've never played a game before where every time I log on, I feel such a longing to immerse myself in the world, but can't find any reason to do it. This game is a Massively Multiplayer Online Dead-End.

You're not wrong. But it does have a "gold treadmill", allowing you to grind any activity you enjoy, as long as you don't go mad on the gold-per-hour equation. I like casually farming gold to buy gems, mostly through a mix of HoT metas, pony farming, gathering with glyphed tools for added value, alting/world completion (which I still enjoy on my 11th alt) and the occasional fractal. I don't dispute it lacks the addictive 'quality' of e.g. early WoW, but I'm happy I don't have the time for that anymore (even if I do miss it).

[Adenin.5973]

@"Cyninja.2954" said:

That's just it, and I am happy you realized this yourself, you WANT WoW. Most GW2 player do NOT WANT WoW. We play GW2 because we do NOT WANT WoW.

Imagine if I went over to the WoW boards and demanded that Blizzard:

• stop gear progression (which is interesting since classic servers without constant progression is of actual interest to some people, let's see how that works out)
• remove the subscription but implement a way more expansive cash shop

How does that make me a WoW player? It makes me a GW2 player in the wrong game. You are a WoW player in the wrong game.

Lol, I've played GW1 and loved it, I played WoW and loved it, I played GW2 from the early Beta and loved it. You are not telling me that I am playing the wrong game. I have few games where I have more hours played than GW2. But is GW2 perfect? Is GW2 good from the perspective of a longterm player in 2018/2019? I told you what I think about that.

Also, I never demanded anything. I replied to a thread that raised the question, why GW2 was not chosen by players (which are not only those ppl that currently love GW2 so much) as the best MMO 2018. Stop being so defensive lol.

You don't "just pay 12€ every month on top". The subscription is the main monetization behind WoW. The cash shop items there are just because they can milk even more money out of their players. WoW makes a huge bulk of their revenue from those 12€ and it allows for them to keep the lights on.

This once was the case. With rapidly dwindling subscriber numbers and a noticeably rising influence of Activision over Blizzard, a new focus on Mobile games and Micro transactions throughout every single one of their IPs, that's not where things seem to be heading. Going F2P at some point and changing the business model is also nothing unheard of for an MMO.

No one here loves the gem store. People are happy that Arenanet is able to manage so far with sticking mostly to cosmetics (but a change and stronger push to gem sales is noticeable). There is thousands of examples, even in the MMORPG genre, where this is not the case and the developer or publisher put out insane pay-to-win or customer unfriendly monetization in place.

And there are other examples like Warframe, where you get everything in the game. And no, this is not just done in the most boring way imaginable (convert currency and get a UI popup), stuff is implemented in the world and you can actively go out there and farm specific things. Putting stuff into a shop and giving them via ingame post ist just the most lazy way of doing it and ppl like you defending it in any way is pretty sad.

Community should be there to push the devs to go the extra mile, to put in the most effort possible, to produce something truly outstanding. Not give them excuses to implement or keep lackluster mechanics and systems. If they can do it after listening to their community great, if it's truly not possible, okay, that's then how it is. But I will never understand the mindset of "fans" that make excuses for the company. It's Anets job to come up with excuses and explain why they can't do something. All that your attitude is achieving, is giving them a free pass on not doing anything, since from Anets perspective ppl don't make any noise about it and are seemingly okay therefore with it.

The gw2 reward system feels like a glorified online shop. There's no lore, no interesting quest, nothing behind all these items you get. Even farming a 10 year old mount in WoW is more exciting than getting a legendary like skin from the GW2 shop.

What makes it even worse is the artificial scarcity introduced to push sales. There's not a single reason beyond making more money, why you would want to have these items rotate on an unknown schedule and not be available for your players. This leads to ppl that farm gold just in case something they want pops up for sale. Meaning you have now players out there grinding gold without any specific goal in mind. That's like the worst case scenario.

And when you really want a skin from the shop you have no idea when it becomes available again, so what are you doing now in a game, where the main reward is skins? Farm gold 1 year in advance? I can't imagine how many ppl were really annoyed by items not being available.

Of course there are also tons of ppl that then won't start grinding gold for something that they have no clue when it will become available again. And then wen it is available, they panic buy with their RL cash to have it before it vanishes again. It's a shady marketing tactic for digital sales, since there's no reason, unlike in physical stores, to not have every single item on display or ready to sell. look at howe much flag Blizzard is getting right now with their mounts that they send now in "hibernation". They just started doing the same stuff Anet did all along. It's bad from Blizzard and it's bad for Anet.

You are literally complaining about Arenanet being able to provide a not subscription based product while being one of the most customer friendly developers in the market (as far as the gem store goes). That is mental.

I just said that I wished that GW2 had the amount of manpower that Blizzard has. I also wished it would get a subscription, so we can finally have something else to do than farming gold in SW for weeks to klick on a mount in the shop. How is wishing for something complaining? Again, very defensive from your side.

[Cyninja.2954]

@Adenin.5973 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

That's just it, and I am happy you realized this yourself, you WANT WoW. Most GW2 player do NOT WANT WoW. We play GW2 because we do NOT WANT WoW.

Imagine if I went over to the WoW boards and demanded that Blizzard:

• stop gear progression (which is interesting since classic servers without constant progression is of actual interest to some people, let's see how that works out)
• remove the subscription but implement a way more expansive cash shop

How does that make me a WoW player? It makes me a GW2 player in the wrong game.

You are a WoW player in the wrong game.

Lol, I've played GW1 and loved it, I played WoW and loved it, I played GW2 from the early Beta and loved it. You are not telling me that I am playing the wrong game. I have few games where I have more hours played than GW2. But is GW2 perfect? Is GW2 good from the perspective of a longterm player in 2018/2019? I told you what I think about that.

Also, I never demanded anything. I replied to a thread that raised the question, why GW2 was not chosen by players (which are not only those ppl that currently love GW2 so much) as the best MMO 2018. Stop being so defensive lol.

True, my response was also not aimed at only you but also some other players who did make those demands.

@Adenin.5973 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:You don't "just pay 12€ every month on top".

The subscription is the main monetization behind WoW.

The cash shop items there are just because they can milk even more money out of their players. WoW makes a huge bulk of their revenue from those 12€ and it allows for them to keep the lights on.

This once was the case. With rapidly dwindling subscriber numbers and a noticeably rising influence of Activision over Blizzard, a new focus on Mobile games and Micro transactions throughout every single one of their IPs, that's not where things seem to be heading. Going F2P at some point and changing the business model is also nothing unheard of for an MMO.

and once WoW goes f2p and they have adapted their business model, then we can compare. Also don't kid yourself. Blizzard is still sitting on at least a comfy 2-2.5 million subscribers or we would be seeing way different actions taken.

WoW going f2p was mentioned as possibility 2 years ago by developers ONCE subscriber numbers are completely down. We are far from that case no matter how disappointed people might be. The game is still very healthy to sustain it's couple of thousand developers.

@Adenin.5973 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:No one here loves the gem store. People are happy that Arenanet is able to manage so far with sticking mostly to cosmetics (but a change and stronger push to gem sales is noticeable). There is thousands of examples, even in the MMORPG genre, where this is not the case and the developer or publisher put out insane pay-to-win or customer unfriendly monetization in place.

And there are other examples like Warframe, where you get everything in the game. And no, this is not just done in the most boring way imaginable (convert currency and get a UI popup), stuff is implemented in the world and you can actively go out there and farm specific things. Putting stuff into a shop and giving them via ingame post ist just the most lazy way of doing it and ppl like you defending it in any way is pretty sad.

Do you really want me to start listing all the MMOs or semi MMOs with worse online stores? I didn't say GW2 had the best, I said it had one of the most customer friendly online stores. Warframe being another prime example of a developer who puts players first does not debunk this.

@Adenin.5973 said:Community should be there to push the devs to go the extra mile, to put in the most effort possible, to produce something truly outstanding. Not give them excuses to implement or keep lackluster mechanics and systems. If they can do it after listening to their community great, if it's truly not possible, okay, that's then how it is. But I will never understand the mindset of "fans" that make excuses for the company. It's Anets job to come up with excuses and explain why they can't do something. All that your attitude is achieving, is giving them a free pass on not doing anything, since from Anets perspective ppl don't make any noise about it and are seemingly okay therefore with it.

and this has happened. Players were very unhappy with how HoT released and made a fuss. Arenanet had to give and made gestures and gave people free character slots.

My attitude is achieving nothing besides not coming over as some spoiled brat. When something bothers me and I find it unreasonable, I comment on it or better yet, let my wallet speak. I mentioned the increasing push for gem sales. Now this might be because the developers are greedy, or it might be because they need funding or else the same as with Blizzard and Activision will happen between NCSoft and Arenanet.

@Adenin.5973 said:The gw2 reward system feels like a glorified online shop. There's no lore, no interesting quest, nothing behind all these items you get. Even farming a 10 year old mount in WoW is more exciting than getting a legendary like skin from the GW2 shop.

What makes it even worse is the artificial scarcity introduced to push sales. There's not a single reason beyond making more money, why you would want to have these items rotate on an unknown schedule and not be available for your players. This leads to ppl that farm gold just in case something they want pops up for sale. Meaning you have now players out there grinding gold without any specific goal in mind. That's like the worst case scenario.

And when you really want a skin from the shop you have no idea when it becomes available again, so what are you doing now in a game, where the main reward is skins? Farm gold 1 year in advance? I can't imagine how many ppl were really annoyed by items not being available.

Of course there are also tons of ppl that then won't start grinding gold for something that they have no clue when it will become available again. And then wen it is available, they panic buy with their RL cash to have it before it vanishes again. It's a shady marketing tactic for digital sales, since there's no reason, unlike in physical stores, to not have every single item on display or ready to sell. look at howe much flag Blizzard is getting right now with their mounts that they send now in "hibernation". They just started doing the same stuff Anet did all along. It's bad from Blizzard and it's bad for Anet.

So their monetization works. For all those oh so poor people who are not in control of their spending habits, how many are playing this game with almost 0$ spent on it? Exactly.

@Adenin.5973 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

You are literally complaining about Arenanet being able to provide a not subscription based product while being one of the most customer friendly developers in the market (as far as the gem store goes).

That is mental.

I just said that I wished that GW2 had the amount of manpower that Blizzard has. I also wished it would get a subscription, so we can finally have something else to do than farming gold in SW for weeks to klick on a mount in the shop. How is wishing for something complaining? Again, very defensive from your side.

If Arenanet had the same man power as Blizzard, the required gem sale would be way higher.

It does not have a subscription. Hoping it has one, while possible, does not make it so. Being unfair and judgemental against the developers while they have a different monetization model is strait up unfair or entitled.

You want to be unhappy AND feel treated unjust? Go to the Blizzard forums where people have to pay a subscription AND now get fremium treatment.

[Bast Bow.2958]

@Adenin.5973 said:

@"Bast Bow.2958" said:

Could you elaborate more? How guild wars 2 lacks a reason to do so? I'm interested how so, or in what way it can be different. I find it somewhat hard to come back to the game lately. I've had those periods before and I always come back though. I'm blaming it on getting older and having other priorities, but maybe that's not it so I'm curious about your findings.

Well, it's the core principle of GW2 to be not a game that is played the entire time until one day the studio stops making new content for it, like it's the case for example with WoW.

GW2 is from the ground up designed to be a game where you drop in to play a few days and then simply stop playing it. The devs/designers stated themselves that "it is okay to stop playing and come back later". Well that's honestly not so much okay for me. I expect something more from an MMO in 2019.

Now, how is this philosophy noticeably in game? Very easy. The main content of GW2, besides - and lets be honest here - pretty slim expac releases every few years, is the living world. What does living world offer? It offers several months of dev time, that created a few hours of okayish story and a map, maybe some skin you can get if you want to. That's it. It's content that you play through once, the hardcore ppl do it maybe for achievements several times but then it's done. It's one time content. You throw it away aftrer you've seen it. It's like a movie. Star Wars is fun and awesome. If you watch it, do you really want to watch it tomorrow again? The majority of ppl wouldn't want to do that, because the "progression" and "reward" of a film is not the nice visuals, it's the story that unfolds. Since you already know that story now, there's nothing you gain from doing that again.

What does the Living Story therefore not offer? For example a new mechanic that scales (endless coop horde defense modes etc.) , or a new way of enhancing and building your character. Something that you can do hundreds of times, is every time a bit different maybe, offers even after the 100th time still something as a meaningful reward (fractals are lackluster when it comes to meaningful rewards). The obvious thing here would be a gear treadmill, like WoW has, or another system like paragon points, that are a very longterm thing in some games, where you need to do specific things to get new abilities or better stats. There are obviously tons of other such things they can come up with. Now, again, this is very against the entire concept of Anet, to not get any more character progression, so that ppl are not "afraid" to get back to the game and have to grind a few weeks to get back to where other players are.

I was very excited about the HoT expansion. Especially because of one thing, that was promised to make up for the lack of a gear treadmill: "Masteries". Yet they turned out to be a complete joke, that was done without thinking too much within the first few days of each expac. There is no character progression in GW2 that would keep you playing for more than a few hours. Progression, which is one of the single most improtant things I consider when I decide what RPG I want to play.

Give me new skills, new mechanics, new gear, new skins, new auras, new ways to experience the world. And yes, GW2 surprisingly does that. Mounts, elite specs, gemstore skins etc. But here's the improtant thing: These things must build on each other to be progression and even more important, the key in longterm progression, is the word "long". In GW2 everything is super fast done.

Another game I've played for ages was Diablo3. Besides its flaws, it got one thing absolutely right imo. And that was the reward part and the progression part, combining them both together with a system that has an insane amount of replayability. Diablo essentially is a long story mission with incredibly amounts of trash mobs and tons of bosses in it. Once you complete the game fort the first time, you unlock a higher difficulty level. Now, why would you want to play the exact same game twice in a row? Here's the thing: Mechanics of encounters change, loot changes and you get more and more powerful until you're a literal god.

And then? You do it again, why, because the treadmill works. But that's again not all, because you start realizing, some of the items that drop make your class just gamebreaking. And completely alter the way your entire class plays. And then when a new season comes, there are new types of these items available, making new stupidly op or fun builds available, so you go out in the highest possible difficulty levels with the highest drop chances to get this loot. I don_t think I've ever played a game where RNG felt that good, not because the items I wanted dropped so much, but just the thrill of hovering with my mouse over a freshly identified legendary, knowing this drop could indeed change everything.And even then, you had almsot infinite amounts of paragon points to farm, to noticeably enhance your character stats.

GW2 has none of that. Really, literally nothing of that. there's not a single MMO, that had loot that lackluster, boring and uninspired or such a lack of longterm progression combined with one time only throw away content sparsely spread across each year.

Interesting read, thanks. In reaction to this post and the discussion that followed with other people:I don’t think it hurts looking at other games so that you can learn or implement things in GW2, right? While also being happy with what we have already.

[Magnus Godrik.5841]

Gw2 is the best free to play mmo. Maybe thats why it wasnt on the list. But who cares as long as you like it.

[Vayne.8563]

@Goettel.4389 said:

@"Fallesafe.5932" said:A few people already elaborated on these points much better than I would have. But, for me... the biggest failure of this game is that it rejected the "gear treadmill," vision of character-progression, and replaced it with... nothing.

I've never played a game before where every time I log on, I feel such a longing to immerse myself in the world, but can't find any reason to do it. This game is a Massively Multiplayer Online Dead-End.

You're not wrong. But it does have a "gold treadmill", allowing you to grind any activity you enjoy, as long as you don't go mad on the gold-per-hour equation. I like casually farming gold to buy gems, mostly through a mix of HoT metas, pony farming, gathering with glyphed tools for added value, alting/world completion (which I still enjoy on my 11th alt) and the occasional fractal. I don't dispute it lacks the addictive 'quality' of e.g. early WoW, but I'm happy I don't have the time for that anymore (even if I do miss it).

It has replaced a gear treadmill with something...a skill treadmill. And to a less degree masteries as well. I find the skill ceiling in this game is higher than most games. People ignore this because they think in terms of everyone can beat everything basically, but beating things faster or with fewer people is a thing too. There are guys out there soloing high level fractals, so yeah...there is something you get better at. Sure your NUMBERS don't go up, but my skill has certainly increased and I like that I'm not as dependent on numbers than in other games.

I don't want my hard work invalidated every time an expansion comes out. I've read fantasy most of my life...Gandalf didn't keep upgrading his staff. I don't want to have to get new armor to slay a dragon, because I don't want to be a coatrack for greatness.

This isn't a failure of the game, this is an incompatibility between you and the game. Want proof? Guild Wars 1 was the same way and many of us came here because we were Guild Wars 1 fans. Except it was even more prevelant in Guild Wars 1. Only 20 levels and the highest level armor was massively easy to get. And if you wanted elite armor? Same stats as that max easy to get armor,. it just looked different.

You not liking something doesn't make the game a failure. In fact, more people probably left this game over the introduced for ascended gear than anything else in the history of the game. Many Guild Wars 1 players, citing the slippery slope argument, called it a betrayal. Others like me stayed on, to see if Anet would add more tiers of gear, and thankfully they didn't. I still think ascended gear is too hard to get (at least compared to BIS gear in HoT) and it's not because I can't get it. It's because I don't want to have to.

The beauty of Guild Wars 1 was that switching builds and trying out new stuff was easy and fast and cheap. You didn't have to carry around 8 sets of gear and you could save your builds. That's the one major downside of this game for me. But just because you don't like something or see it doesn't mean the game is a failure. Obviously it's a successful game. You simply don't agree with one of the major design decisions that was a selling point for many of us.

[googel.3278]

Not the best MMO, the game title itself is a fat lie. Should change it to Skin Wars, or Mount Wars.

[coso.9173]

i think gw2 is easily onf of the best MMOs around. which one is the best would go down to personal tastes. I love ESO but I get tired of quest after quest after quest in there. I love GW2 but i get tired of not having much to do when there's no new story content either. no game is going to be perfect.

[zealex.9410]

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Adenin.5973 said:I just want WoW in the GW2 engine (or something even better of course) with the GW2 combat and mounts and detailed world environments, garderobe system, dye system etc. Just with the amount of manpower of Blizzard, the WoW artstyle, the entire lore, races, classes dungeons, raids etc

That's just it, and I am happy you realized this yourself, you WANT WoW. Most GW2 player do NOT WANT WoW. We play GW2 because we do NOT WANT WoW.

Imagine if I went over to the WoW boards and demanded that Blizzard:

• stop gear progression (which is interesting since classic servers without constant progression is of actual interest to some people, let's see how that works out)
• remove the subscription but implement a way more expansive cash shop

How does that make me a WoW player? It makes me a GW2 player in the wrong game.

You are a WoW player in the wrong game.

@Adenin.5973 said:And I am also absolutely sick of the GW2 cash shop btw. PPl here praise Anet all day for how great their pay model is but I am telling you the cash shop ruined the already lacking reward system in this game. Sad to see that Blizzard turns out to maybe go down the same route, you just pay 12€ every month on top of it.

You don't "just pay 12€ every month on top".

The subscription is the main monetization behind WoW.

The cash shop items there are just because they can milk even more money out of their players. WoW makes a huge bulk of their revenue from those 12€ and it allows for them to keep the lights on.

No one here loves the gem store. People are happy that Arenanet is able to manage so far with sticking mostly to cosmetics (but a change and stronger push to gem sales is noticeable). There is thousands of examples, even in the MMORPG genre, where this is not the case and the developer or publisher put out insane pay-to-win or customer unfriendly monetization in place.

You are literally complaining about Arenanet being able to provide a not subscription based product while being one of the most customer friendly developers in the market (as far as the gem store goes).

That is mental.

Thats idd abit of a weird complain. If i were to complain about monetisation id complain about the fact that they've been pushing the gemstore twice as hard compaired to the past, but we havent seen that translate to more content updates.

The opposite really, we got less content this year.

Its as if they are milking this game now harder than ever before for the sake of milking it. With little intent on investing more in it.

[Vayne.8563]

@zealex.9410 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Adenin.5973 said:I just want WoW in the GW2 engine (or something even better of course) with the GW2 combat and mounts and detailed world environments, garderobe system, dye system etc. Just with the amount of manpower of Blizzard, the WoW artstyle, the entire lore, races, classes dungeons, raids etc

That's just it, and I am happy you realized this yourself, you WANT WoW. Most GW2 player do NOT WANT WoW. We play GW2 because we do NOT WANT WoW.

Imagine if I went over to the WoW boards and demanded that Blizzard:

• stop gear progression (which is interesting since classic servers without constant progression is of actual interest to some people, let's see how that works out)
• remove the subscription but implement a way more expansive cash shop

How does that make me a WoW player? It makes me a GW2 player in the wrong game.

You are a WoW player in the wrong game.

@Adenin.5973 said:And I am also absolutely sick of the GW2 cash shop btw. PPl here praise Anet all day for how great their pay model is but I am telling you the cash shop ruined the already lacking reward system in this game. Sad to see that Blizzard turns out to maybe go down the same route, you just pay 12€ every month on top of it.

You don't "just pay 12€ every month on top".

The subscription is the main monetization behind WoW.

The cash shop items there are just because they can milk even more money out of their players. WoW makes a huge bulk of their revenue from those 12€ and it allows for them to keep the lights on.

No one here loves the gem store. People are happy that Arenanet is able to manage so far with sticking mostly to cosmetics (but a change and stronger push to gem sales is noticeable). There is thousands of examples, even in the MMORPG genre, where this is not the case and the developer or publisher put out insane pay-to-win or customer unfriendly monetization in place.

You are literally complaining about Arenanet being able to provide a not subscription based product while being one of the most customer friendly developers in the market (as far as the gem store goes).

That is mental.

Thats idd abit of a weird complain. If i were to complain about monetisation id complain about the fact that they've been pushing the gemstore twice as hard compaired to the past, but we havent seen that translate to more content updates.

The opposite really, we got less content this year.

Its as if they are milking this game now harder than ever before for the sake of milking it. With little intent on investing more in it.

I don't feel like I've gotten less content this year. This year has given me more content that I'm interested in.

[zealex.9410]

@Vayne.8563 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Adenin.5973 said:I just want WoW in the GW2 engine (or something even better of course) with the GW2 combat and mounts and detailed world environments, garderobe system, dye system etc. Just with the amount of manpower of Blizzard, the WoW artstyle, the entire lore, races, classes dungeons, raids etc

That's just it, and I am happy you realized this yourself, you WANT WoW. Most GW2 player do NOT WANT WoW. We play GW2 because we do NOT WANT WoW.

Imagine if I went over to the WoW boards and demanded that Blizzard:

• stop gear progression (which is interesting since classic servers without constant progression is of actual interest to some people, let's see how that works out)
• remove the subscription but implement a way more expansive cash shop

How does that make me a WoW player? It makes me a GW2 player in the wrong game.

You are a WoW player in the wrong game.

@Adenin.5973 said:And I am also absolutely sick of the GW2 cash shop btw. PPl here praise Anet all day for how great their pay model is but I am telling you the cash shop ruined the already lacking reward system in this game. Sad to see that Blizzard turns out to maybe go down the same route, you just pay 12€ every month on top of it.

You don't "just pay 12€ every month on top".

The subscription is the main monetization behind WoW.

The cash shop items there are just because they can milk even more money out of their players. WoW makes a huge bulk of their revenue from those 12€ and it allows for them to keep the lights on.

No one here loves the gem store. People are happy that Arenanet is able to manage so far with sticking mostly to cosmetics (but a change and stronger push to gem sales is noticeable). There is thousands of examples, even in the MMORPG genre, where this is not the case and the developer or publisher put out insane pay-to-win or customer unfriendly monetization in place.

You are literally complaining about Arenanet being able to provide a not subscription based product while being one of the most customer friendly developers in the market (as far as the gem store goes).

That is mental.

Thats idd abit of a weird complain. If i were to complain about monetisation id complain about the fact that they've been pushing the gemstore twice as hard compaired to the past, but we havent seen that translate to more content updates.

The opposite really, we got less content this year.

Its as if they are milking this game now harder than ever before for the sake of milking it. With little intent on investing more in it.

I don't feel like I've gotten less content this year. This year has given me more content that I'm interested in.

Last year we could have gotten 1 raid 1 fractal and 2 lw updates and i could say it was the best year because we got multiple cats to collect.

Thats personal opinion, fact is, this year has seen less releases than the previous one whether thats content you care for or not.

And just out of curiocity whats the content that you care for that anet has given u more of this year?

[Sylosi.6503]

The "best" MMORPG is basically a pointless discussion because so much of why people play a game is down to their own subjective preferences. Which is why for example there are people are in GW2, ESO, etc all parroting that the combat in their respective game is the "best".

Beyond that, I'd say given the rather sad state of the genre none of them are exactly covering themselves in glory.

[Vayne.8563]

@zealex.9410 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Adenin.5973 said:I just want WoW in the GW2 engine (or something even better of course) with the GW2 combat and mounts and detailed world environments, garderobe system, dye system etc. Just with the amount of manpower of Blizzard, the WoW artstyle, the entire lore, races, classes dungeons, raids etc

That's just it, and I am happy you realized this yourself, you WANT WoW. Most GW2 player do NOT WANT WoW. We play GW2 because we do NOT WANT WoW.

Imagine if I went over to the WoW boards and demanded that Blizzard:

• stop gear progression (which is interesting since classic servers without constant progression is of actual interest to some people, let's see how that works out)
• remove the subscription but implement a way more expansive cash shop

How does that make me a WoW player? It makes me a GW2 player in the wrong game.

You are a WoW player in the wrong game.

@Adenin.5973 said:And I am also absolutely sick of the GW2 cash shop btw. PPl here praise Anet all day for how great their pay model is but I am telling you the cash shop ruined the already lacking reward system in this game. Sad to see that Blizzard turns out to maybe go down the same route, you just pay 12€ every month on top of it.

You don't "just pay 12€ every month on top".

The subscription is the main monetization behind WoW.

The cash shop items there are just because they can milk even more money out of their players. WoW makes a huge bulk of their revenue from those 12€ and it allows for them to keep the lights on.

No one here loves the gem store. People are happy that Arenanet is able to manage so far with sticking mostly to cosmetics (but a change and stronger push to gem sales is noticeable). There is thousands of examples, even in the MMORPG genre, where this is not the case and the developer or publisher put out insane pay-to-win or customer unfriendly monetization in place.

You are literally complaining about Arenanet being able to provide a not subscription based product while being one of the most customer friendly developers in the market (as far as the gem store goes).

That is mental.

Thats idd abit of a weird complain. If i were to complain about monetisation id complain about the fact that they've been pushing the gemstore twice as hard compaired to the past, but we havent seen that translate to more content updates.

The opposite really, we got less content this year.

Its as if they are milking this game now harder than ever before for the sake of milking it. With little intent on investing more in it.

I don't feel like I've gotten less content this year. This year has given me more content that I'm interested in.

Last year we could have gotten 1 raid 1 fractal and 2 lw updates and i could say it was the best year because we got multiple cats to collect.

Thats personal opinion, fact is, this year has seen less releases than the previous one whether thats content you care for or not.

And just out of curiocity whats the content that you care for that anet has given u more of this year?

The restored holidays and the new racing are also content. That we got a new mount is content, because finding tracks is fun. The way the Sun Refuge was designed is content. The legendaries we got are content. Sorry but I don't agree.

[Laila Lightness.8742]

@googel.3278 said:Not the best MMO, the game title itself is a fat lie. Should change it to Skin Wars, or Mount Wars.

autoattack wars XD

[maddoctor.2738]

@Vayne.8563 said:I don't feel like I've gotten less content this year. This year has given me more content that I'm interested in.

Personal interest aside, an apples to apples comparison between 2017 and 2018:

2017: 5 Legendary Weapons, 2018: 3 Legendary Weapons2017: 1 Legendary Armor (2 if you count PVP one), 1 Legendary Backpack, 1 Legendary Accessory, 2018: 0 Legendary items2017: 4 Episodes with 4 maps, 2018: 3 Episodes with 3 maps

Other additions:2017: 2 new Fractal (one with CM), 1 reworked Fractal, 2018: 1 new Fractal (no CM)2017: 2 Raid Wings, 2018: 1 Raid Wing

Miscellaneous additions (not comparable):2017: Ammunition mechanic, Competitive Feature Pack (WVW Skirmish Update, Structured PVP Updates), 2018: Roller Beetle Mount, Mad King's Raceway, Beetle Races, return of Festival of Four Winds, Secret Lair of the Snowmen

2017: an expansion, 2018: no expansion