Changes to Istan Meta Farming (Discussion)

[DaFishBob.6518]

@Linken.6345 said:

@LucianDK.8615 said:

@Hyper Cutter.9376 said:

@"Bish.8627" said:"Increased the radii of the charging crystals in the "Repel invading Branded, and kill them near the charging crystals to fill the resonance crystal" event. Creatures killed outside of the charging crystals’ radii will no longer drop loot, and Branded creatures will cease dropping loot after a certain number of kills."

This company is really taking a giant dolyak poop on it's customers right now. It's not even subtle.Or, you know, they wanted people to

do the event

. This isn't even remotely the first time they've made this exact change, for the exact same reason every time.

You got it wrong OP, ive seen people willfully running the event out of time and keeping it from being completed despite others protesting, just because they wanted to farm karma. This was a GOOD change to stop such abusive behavior.

And why dident the people protesting run out grab shards and charge the crystal the manual way?

Maybe because they didn't want to carry the event while others profited more?

[TokenG.7863]

@Linken.6345 said:

@Alimar.8760 said:As some of you have pointed out and also with a guild member of mine. That one potential and totally understandable reason why Istan was changed the way it was changed, was because people were using the farm to convert to gems. Thus, Anet was losing out on money from people who would normally purchase gems who instead spent a few hundred hours in Istan to buy whatever gems they needed.

It makes sense, a sad sense, but it does make sense.

As Hirukaru.4539 responded.Anet lose nothing by letting people buy gems with gold infact they might even lose on this now.Since less people buying up the gem pool so the gems dont rise up in gold price as much.That in turn make people more hesistant to spend their real cash to buy gems and turn into gold to replenish said pool.

Actually, you have to look at it from an income standpoint. Anet don't make any real world money on gold => gem transfers. They alter the economy by removing gold and giving digital media. Therein lies the problem. They will want to keep the gold influx to players lower in order to increase their cash gem sales. I would venture to say that the majority of people who purchase items from the BLTC are using in-game currency conversions to pay for them. So whenever the majority of their income is averted by in-game means they are going to do something about it to keep paying their salaries.

@DaFishBob.6518 said:

@Linken.6345 said:

@LucianDK.8615 said:

@Hyper Cutter.9376 said:

@"Bish.8627" said:"Increased the radii of the charging crystals in the "Repel invading Branded, and kill them near the charging crystals to fill the resonance crystal" event. Creatures killed outside of the charging crystals’ radii will no longer drop loot, and Branded creatures will cease dropping loot after a certain number of kills."

This company is really taking a giant dolyak poop on it's customers right now. It's not even subtle.Or, you know, they wanted people to

do the event

. This isn't even remotely the first time they've made this exact change, for the exact same reason every time.

You got it wrong OP, ive seen people willfully running the event out of time and keeping it from being completed despite others protesting, just because they wanted to farm karma. This was a GOOD change to stop such abusive behavior.

And why dident the people protesting run out grab shards and charge the crystal the manual way?

Maybe because they didn't want to carry the event while others profited more?

Actually since this change was made, the trolls have come out to play. I was in a "post" reset Meta yesterday for Thunderhead Keep where people pushed the event to complete 30 seconds before the daily reset. So there ya go. It would be nice if they would push the time on that event starting forward ~10 minutes or so.

[DaFishBob.6518]

@TokenG.7863 said:

@DaFishBob.6518 said:

@Linken.6345 said:

@LucianDK.8615 said:

@Hyper Cutter.9376 said:

@"Bish.8627" said:"Increased the radii of the charging crystals in the "Repel invading Branded, and kill them near the charging crystals to fill the resonance crystal" event. Creatures killed outside of the charging crystals’ radii will no longer drop loot, and Branded creatures will cease dropping loot after a certain number of kills."

This company is really taking a giant dolyak poop on it's customers right now. It's not even subtle.Or, you know, they wanted people to

do the event

. This isn't even remotely the first time they've made this exact change, for the exact same reason every time.

You got it wrong OP, ive seen people willfully running the event out of time and keeping it from being completed despite others protesting, just because they wanted to farm karma. This was a GOOD change to stop such abusive behavior.

And why dident the people protesting run out grab shards and charge the crystal the manual way?

Maybe because they didn't want to carry the event while others profited more?

Actually since this change was made, the trolls have come out to play. I was in a "post" reset Meta yesterday for Thunderhead Keep where people pushed the event to complete 30 seconds before the daily reset. So there ya go. It would be nice if they would push the time on that event starting forward ~10 minutes or so.

Okay, why is this directed to my answer? I was just offering an answer to why people might not have charged the crystal the manual way.

[Linken.6345]

@TokenG.7863 said:

@Linken.6345 said:

@Alimar.8760 said:As some of you have pointed out and also with a guild member of mine. That one potential and totally understandable reason why Istan was changed the way it was changed, was because people were using the farm to convert to gems. Thus, Anet was losing out on money from people who would normally purchase gems who instead spent a few hundred hours in Istan to buy whatever gems they needed.

It makes sense, a sad sense, but it does make sense.

As Hirukaru.4539 responded.Anet lose nothing by letting people buy gems with gold infact they might even lose on this now.Since less people buying up the gem pool so the gems dont rise up in gold price as much.That in turn make people more hesistant to spend their real cash to buy gems and turn into gold to replenish said pool.

Actually, you have to look at it from an income standpoint. Anet don't make any real world money on gold => gem transfers. They alter the economy by removing gold and giving digital media. Therein lies the problem. They will want to keep the gold influx to players lower in order to increase their cash gem sales. I would venture to say that the majority of people who purchase items from the BLTC are using in-game currency conversions to pay for them. So whenever the majority of their income is averted by in-game means they are going to do something about it to keep paying their salaries.

@DaFishBob.6518 said:

@Linken.6345 said:

@LucianDK.8615 said:

@Hyper Cutter.9376 said:

@"Bish.8627" said:"Increased the radii of the charging crystals in the "Repel invading Branded, and kill them near the charging crystals to fill the resonance crystal" event. Creatures killed outside of the charging crystals’ radii will no longer drop loot, and Branded creatures will cease dropping loot after a certain number of kills."

This company is really taking a giant dolyak poop on it's customers right now. It's not even subtle.Or, you know, they wanted people to

do the event

. This isn't even remotely the first time they've made this exact change, for the exact same reason every time.

You got it wrong OP, ive seen people willfully running the event out of time and keeping it from being completed despite others protesting, just because they wanted to farm karma. This was a GOOD change to stop such abusive behavior.

And why dident the people protesting run out grab shards and charge the crystal the manual way?

Maybe because they didn't want to carry the event while others profited more?

Actually since this change was made, the trolls have come out to play. I was in a "post" reset Meta yesterday for Thunderhead Keep where people pushed the event to complete 30 seconds before the daily reset. So there ya go. It would be nice if they would push the time on that event starting forward ~10 minutes or so.

But less people buying gold for gems draining the pool of gems, make buying gems for real cash filling up the pool less attractive since you gain less gold converting cash bought gems to gold.EditAnd yes anet got a tax on both converting cash bought gems to gold and gold to gems so it combat the inflation on both fronts.Edit 2To your second point wasent there a thread around here complaining that the quarter to reset meta was draging on so they couldent get the daily plate before reset going on afew days back.

So I guess anet fixed the event for them since they litteraly couldent play any of the 11 other times the meta was up.

[Astralporing.1957]

@TokenG.7863 said:Actually, you have to look at it from an income standpoint. Anet don't make any real world money on gold => gem transfers.

They do however make real world money from people buying gems in order to use gems to gold exchange, which is influenced by the above. Less people buying gems for gold means less people buying gold for gems.

They alter the economy by removing gold and giving digital media. Therein lies the problem. They will want to keep the gold influx to players lower in order to increase their cash gem sales.Most farms do so, because they do not create influx of gold to economy. Instead, they offer wealth by the way of materials that are then sold on TP, thus destroying the gold (in the form of taxes).

I would venture to say that the majority of people who purchase items from the BLTC are using in-game currency conversions to pay for them.Doesn't matter, because the items they buy are all purchased with gems bought with real cash. It's just sometimes it's other players that pay for them.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

I think all sorts of farming should be eliminated from mmo games. it encourages people to play for hours on end which is unhealthy (I would know).

[Alimar.8760]

@derd.6413 said:

@Alimar.8760 said:Anet was losing out on money from people who would normally purchase gems who instead spent a few hundred hours in Istan to buy whatever gems they needed.

@Alimar.8760 said:Doesn't necessarily have to skyrocket to be an evident problem. Because as gold to gems conversion continues, the gold value of each gem goes up.

Thereby incentivizing people to buy gems

and convert to gold. It'll eventually reach an equilibrium price.

could you explain how these aren't contradictory to each other

By cherry picking my statements, you've removed a good chunk of what I was talking about. They're not contradictory. What I did say, was that it was posed as a potential reason. You also cut off the last part of that second quote where I said "But since each price counteracts each other, It isn't the only solution. I only stated that it was potentially a reason (Not the only reason.) for the change and it's understandable."

To clarify, with more people starting converting gold to gems as their main way of getting gems, instead of buying. The gold worth of each gem has gone up slowly. There will only be a small subset of players that switch between gold conversion to cash conversion. More people, instead opted for the fast Istan farm than spending money. Yes, it will balance out. However as a personal experience because I was a farmer of Istan, plenty of people were using it to convert to gold rather than their weekly/monthly gem purchases. Increased gem>gold might incentivize some people to purchase. But when more people are converting gold>gem than they are gem>gold. Anet is or was making less money than they would usually due to the unnaturally large profit of the farm.

In my opinion, the number of people that can afford to buy gems and are solely concerned with converting them to gold is going to be relatively static. Because they're people with disposable income. Istan farmers didn't need to have disposable income to farm. (Thereby anyone can do it and the pool size increased rapidly since there is no hard cap on who can farm Istan.) So increased gem>gold conversions might not rise 1:1 ratio with that of gold>gem conversions. I really lack the metadata to know for sure. And this is completely anecdotal; but since Istan farming came out a year ago the gold>gem prices have slowly gone up in price. There can be other factors too, like newer, more interesting items on the gemstore. And as I said before, this is a possible factor in their reasons for nerfing it, not the only factor.

[Obtena.7952]

Big problem with some arguments in this thread; people shouldn't assume that unhappy players don't spend money on gems. In some cases, buying gems fixes the problems that make those players unhappy. We also can't assume that people are unwilling to spend money on a game either; I'm willing to bet that if the demographic for a casual player is someone that has values time over money, then they aren't repulsed by the idea of buying gems to get gold to buy things they want. In fact, the idea that people aren't willing to spend money on things that give them entertainment value is quite nonsense to begin with.

So basically, if you want to fearmonger by saying Anet shouldn't change things because it leads to lower revenues, I'm not sure you thought that argument through well enough.

[derd.6413]

@Alimar.8760 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Alimar.8760 said:Anet was losing out on money from people who would normally purchase gems who instead spent a few hundred hours in Istan to buy whatever gems they needed.

@Alimar.8760 said:Doesn't necessarily have to skyrocket to be an evident problem. Because as gold to gems conversion continues, the gold value of each gem goes up.

Thereby incentivizing people to buy gems

and convert to gold. It'll eventually reach an equilibrium price.

could you explain how these aren't contradictory to each other

By cherry picking my statements, you've removed a good chunk of what I was talking about. They're not contradictory. What I did say, was that it was posed as a potential reason. You also cut off the last part of that second quote where I said "But since each price counteracts each other, It isn't the only solution. I only stated that it was potentially a reason (Not the only reason.) for the change and it's understandable."

the context didn't matter in this case, if it did i would've included it. the extra info you've provided doesn't make the 2 statements not contradictory. (don't bother replying to this somebody else already explained where i went wrong)

[Alimar.8760]

@derd.6413 said:@Alimar.8760 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Alimar.8760 said:Anet was losing out on money from people who would normally purchase gems who instead spent a few hundred hours in Istan to buy whatever gems they needed.

@Alimar.8760 said:Doesn't necessarily have to skyrocket to be an evident problem. Because as gold to gems conversion continues, the gold value of each gem goes up.

Thereby incentivizing people to buy gems

and convert to gold. It'll eventually reach an equilibrium price.

could you explain how these aren't contradictory to each other

By cherry picking my statements, you've removed a good chunk of what I was talking about. They're not contradictory. What I did say, was that it was posed as a potential reason. You also cut off the last part of that second quote where I said "But since each price counteracts each other, It isn't the only solution. I only stated that it was potentially a reason (Not the only reason.) for the change and it's understandable."

the context didn't matter in this case, if it did i would've included it. the extra info you've provided doesn't make the 2 statements not contradictory. (don't bother replying to this somebody else already explained where i went wrong)

The two statements I provided aren't contradictory because I am providing ideas on reasons why the change occurred. The context that you said wasn't needed was very much the reason why they weren't contradictory in the first place. I'm glad someone else was able to explain where my reasoning was falling short.

[Rhyse.8179]

Good riddance. Kill it with fire.

Back to SW! That farm is actually fun after all.

[Bish.8627]

@Rhyse.8179 said:Good riddance. Kill it with fire.

Back to SW! That farm is actually fun after all.

Actually with you there. I find SW far more fun.

[Skotlex.7580]

I am almost positively sure ANet does not like the state of the silverwastes farm. If it's been safe all this time, it's most likely because ANet cannot figure out a proper way to nerf it without... high collateral damage (it would probably require game mechanics changes that impact events in other maps).

Some may complain that ANet is enforcing players to play the game the way they want it to be played, but they are actually on the look out to prevent farming methods which lead to unhealthy gameplay (remember Queensdale champion trains?), as these harm the game's experience in lieu of personal profit, and eventually leads to burnout (not to mention an unfair income gap between those who farm this way versus everybody else).

[fixit.7189]

So let me get this straight...people are saying that instead of playing the game to earn gold you should infact buy it with RL money and this is the only way gold should be made? seriously? i will never buy 'gold' in an mmo, to me it's cheating. i'd rather play the game, earn my way instead of taking the cheesy route by whipping out a credit card and doing it that way. but that's just me.

[kharmin.7683]

@fixit.7189 said:So let me get this straight...people are saying that instead of playing the game to earn gold you should infact buy it with RL money and this is the only way gold should be made? seriously? i will never buy 'gold' in an mmo, to me it's cheating. i'd rather play the game, earn my way instead of taking the cheesy route by whipping out a credit card and doing it that way. but that's just me.

No, it's farming gold and converting to gems versus buying gems outright with real cash.

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

@kharmin.7683 said:No, it's farming gold and converting to gems versus buying gems outright with real cash.

Gold to gems is what makes this game run. Not everyone is from USA/UK, and prices in gemstore are steep to not say unacceptable on some items for some people. Like 2k gem single mount skins. That's almost twice as much as a legendary skin in LoL, and those deliver far more then just a new look.

It's only thanks to gold 2 gems conversion that less rich players can get some cool stuff too, and that is the game's lifeblood. Whales will not play if they're the only ones in the see. Little fishies are crucial to keep whales around. And little fishies will not play if they are hard gated from numerous features that let them fully customize their character and make it truly individual experience and not being a clone #23451.

Because of gold 2 gem conversion little fishies can get their stuff without going broke. It may not be on a daily basis, but there is a stable way in which we can earn our way into gem store goodies and both sides stay happy.

[Drecien.4508]

But istan was nerfed before and it didn't work. It still bugs out on the chests alot. So if the grind in istan is getting nerfed why not nerf Silverwastes? Dry top?

[fixit.7189]

People who farm istan and SW are making pennies to the dollar compared to real life wages. what is it, 40-80 hours of grinding in game vs 1 hour working in a decent job? it's kinda lame grinders have to resort to these sorts of farms in the first place.

[Obtena.7952]

@Drecien.4508 said:But istan was nerfed before and it didn't work. It still bugs out on the chests alot. So if the grind in istan is getting nerfed why not nerf Silverwastes? Dry top?

Sure, so they did it again and fixed it right.

I think that's pretty obvious the differences between Istan vs. other; multi-mapping capability, risk/reward profile and more subtly, map intention. Probably many others too. hey for all we know, these areas are next for nerfs; Anet has surprised us in the past.

[Skotlex.7580]

I think people forget that a long time ago, even before hot, you could buy 400 gems for less than 100 gold. As long as the gem/gold exchange is flexible, anything that hurts the gold income in the economy will lead to eventual decreases of buying gems.

It's not like the exchange rate can only go up, that would be the result of inflation, and fractals causes a lot more of that than something like Istan (since it awards a lot of liquid gold).

[kharmin.7683]

@fixit.7189 said:People who farm istan and SW are making pennies to the dollar compared to real life wages. what is it, 40-80 hours of grinding in game vs 1 hour working in a decent job? it's kinda lame grinders have to resort to these sorts of farms in the first place.

Yeah, that's probably why they have illegal bots working 24/7 ... those pennies add up! ;)

[Cristalyan.5728]

@Gaile Gray.6029 wrotehttps://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/66519/istan-meta-chest-changes"Our goal is for content like the Istan Metas to be a part of your daily play-cycle, without it becoming your entire play-cycle. In the next content build, we will be making some adjustments to the chests associated with the Palawadan and Mordant Crescent Great Hall metas in the Domain of Istan. An account daily limit will be applied to these chests, allowing for the opening of a maximum of 30 chests in Palawadan and 12 chests in the Great Hall per day per account. The base gear rewards have been increased, as well, so players playing through each meta once will see an increase to their rewards, but repeated runs will be less lucrative."

If you look at the achievements from the last LS episode you will see that some achievements can be completed only if you make this part of the game your entire play-cycle. For example the weapons collections - you need TONS of branded masses (limited in number for each account) and also a LOT of Exquisite Serpentite Jewel (also limited in number per day). To gather all these you need to turn the map into your entire play-cycle for a long time. Over 100 days (or more than 3 months). Exactly the time needed for the next LS. So, not the grinding was the problem - we have here an invitation to grind. If you look at the last part of the announcement: " ..... but repeated runs will be less lucrative." we can see the real issue (for ANet) - the reward you can have. So, to be clear - they are NOT against grinding - in fact they force you to grind - as long as you have no rewards.

Well, taking all of this into account (and other measures to limit the income of the players) I'm starting to think when we will have a daily limit for each type of mobs we can kill, a daily limit of how many towers/camps/keeps we can capture in WvW before gaining nothing for doing it again, how many PvP matches we can have before doing PvP for nothing etc. AAA - I forgot: how many items we can salvage every day before reaching the limit when you obtain nothing from salvage.

Because, you know, an activity is tolerated only if it is not your entire game-cycle.

[Voltekka.2375]

@Cristalyan.5728 said:@Gaile Gray.6029 wrotehttps://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/66519/istan-meta-chest-changes"Our goal is for content like the Istan Metas to be a part of your daily play-cycle, without it becoming your entire play-cycle. In the next content build, we will be making some adjustments to the chests associated with the Palawadan and Mordant Crescent Great Hall metas in the Domain of Istan. An account daily limit will be applied to these chests, allowing for the opening of a maximum of 30 chests in Palawadan and 12 chests in the Great Hall per day per account. The base gear rewards have been increased, as well, so players playing through each meta once will see an increase to their rewards, but repeated runs will be less lucrative."

If you look at the achievements from the last LS episode you will see that some achievements can be completed only if you make this part of the game your entire play-cycle. For example the weapons collections - you need TONS of branded masses (limited in number for each account) and also a LOT of Exquisite Serpentite Jewel (also limited in number per day). To gather all these you need to turn the map into your entire play-cycle for a long time. Over 100 days (or more than 3 months). Exactly the time needed for the next LS. So, not the grinding was the problem - we have here an invitation to grind. If you look at the last part of the announcement: " ..... but repeated runs will be less lucrative." we can see the real issue (for ANet) - the reward you can have. So, to be clear - they are NOT against grinding - in fact they force you to grind - as long as you have no rewards.

Well, taking all of this into account (and other measures to limit the income of the players) I'm starting to think when we will have a daily limit for each type of mobs we can kill, a daily limit of how many towers/camps/keeps we can capture in WvW before gaining nothing for doing it again, how many PvP matches we can have before doing PvP for nothing etc. AAA - I forgot: how many items we can salvage every day before reaching the limit when you obtain nothing from salvage.

Because, you know, an activity is tolerated only if it is not your entire game-cycle.

You dont really need to turn the New map into your entire playcycle, that is simply untrue. Metas take 15m each, hearts take another 15m for all 4 MAXIMUM, and the hidden chests thing is another 5-8 mins. Thats not even ONE hour per day. I know cause i do em daily. And the weapons collection is a long term goal. You COULD farm the renowned hearts with 20+ toons daily, but thats only if you want the weapons here and now. Nah, the new map is among the least grindy, to me at least.

[Cristalyan.5728]

@"Voltekka.2375" said:

You dont really need to turn the New map into your entire playcycle, that is simply untrue. Metas take 15m each, hearts take another 15m for all 4 MAXIMUM, and the hidden chests thing is another 5-8 mins. Thats not even ONE hour per day. I know cause i do em daily. And the weapons collection is a long term goal. You COULD farm the renowned hearts with 20+ toons daily, but thats only if you want the weapons here and now. Nah, the new map is among the least grindy, to me at least.

You are totally wrong. I can play around 2 hours per day. If I do my daily (20-25 min) then I do the routine you posted, that means for me this is the entire play-cycle. For months.. What if I want also something else from the game? A legendary? Should I postpone it several months until I finish the farming of the new map? What if another map with another grind-for-nothing requirements is released?

But even for you (I suppose you play a lot more than me) this is something you should repeat for a lot of days. Is this a development of the game with the anti-grind idea in mind?

And the idea of doing the same thing with 20 toons =) every day - I don't know how you call this not-grinding. Or farming. But this is allowed - because it gives you almost nothing.

As a note - even if the meta takes 15 minutes to complete, you must wait 1 full hour for the second one. You can do the hearts in this time and maybe the chests but his is all. So, your statement "Thats not even ONE hour per day" should be reworded in " You need more than 1 hour per day (more than 1 hour and 15 min actually) ... ". How long over 1 hour? I think this depends of each player. If you are faster that does not mean that all the players are as fast as you. Or maybe they want to enjoy the map too? Or to listen the NPC dialogues?

[Voltekka.2375]

@Cristalyan.5728 said:

@"Voltekka.2375" said:

You dont really need to turn the New map into your entire playcycle, that is simply untrue. Metas take 15m each, hearts take another 15m for all 4 MAXIMUM, and the hidden chests thing is another 5-8 mins. Thats not even ONE hour per day. I know cause i do em daily. And the weapons collection is a long term goal. You COULD farm the renowned hearts with 20+ toons daily, but thats only if you want the weapons here and now. Nah, the new map is among the least grindy, to me at least.

You are totally wrong. I can play around 2 hours per day. If I do my daily (20-25 min) then I do the routine you posted, that means for me this is the entire play-cycle. For

months.

. What if I want also something else from the game? A legendary? Should I postpone it several months until I finish the farming of the new map? What if another map with another grind-for-nothing requirements is released?

But even for you (I suppose you play a lot more than me) this is something you should repeat for a lot of days. Is this a development of the game with the

anti-grind

idea in mind?

And the idea of doing the same thing with 20 toons =) every day - I don't know how you call this

not-grinding

. Or farming. But this is allowed - because it gives you almost nothing.

As a note - even if the meta takes 15 minutes to complete, you must wait 1 full hour for the second one. You can do the hearts in this time and maybe the chests but his is all. So, your statement "

Thats not even ONE hour per day

" should be reworded in "

You need more than 1 hour per day (more than 1 hour and 15 min actually)

... ". How long over 1 hour? I think this depends of each player. If you are faster that does not mean that all the players are as fast as you. Or maybe they want to enjoy the map too? Or to listen the NPC dialogues?

Well, if one-two hours is all you got, Istan is more lucrative for you since they buffed - According to patchnotes- the rewards for one meta per day. But this isnt really about people doing Istan for one hour, I believe. And you do realise you dont HAVE to get all New weapons. Make em at your own pace, much like stellar weapons. Speaking of Stellar weapons, how many have you got already?If you have 2 hours per day, you can already do limited stuff (including legendaries, which may take you up to a year to make). And the legendary should be the least of your concerns.Personally, I need one hour for metas plus hearts. You learn how to do the hearts efficiently, thus saving time. And after the first few times, you dont really listen to the dialogues anymore. Unless you absolutely need to listen to the same lines every day, for more than 2 months.I think you are exaggerating about the new map grind. I can also understand many people had their most lucrative farm taken away (and i also believe Anet has more data regarding play time on Istan). And, as was the case with Tarir nerf, people will love on to the next farmspot. Lastly, check Lasiurus daily gold farm guide in this forum. He makes big amounts of gold by doing many different things. Maybe thats what Anet is trying to encourage. Have fun!