Upcoming Balance Notes

[melrokk.5938]

@Teratus.2859 said:Been running Ranger spirits for years.

Guess i'm finally going to have to change my main build.. Really not liking the sound of these spirit changes.The boon spam is one of the things I relied on for survivability and support... taking that away and limiting said boons to a 20 second CD has utterly killed that for me.Adding degen to spirits stops them being useful for taking aggro which has thus screwed a big part of my Ranger's playstyle.And add to that spirits now TP to me and their skills pop on my location rather than the enemy or where I placed them before.. which means i'm going to end up having to go in close to get any actual use out of them or straight up waste them for what little boons they now give..

Yeah looks like you just straight up killed one of my favorite builds.. :(Not just nerfed my survivability which would be bad enough but completely screwed how I can even play the character and it's usefulness to others..It's very rare a balance patch does something that messes up one of my builds but it's safe to say this very much looks like one of them..

I absolutely agree with you.After such a nerf perfume, the druid will fly out of the meta forever.600 range is very small :angry: :(To receive gifts, you need to constantly press on the spirit! :(And yet, what upset me the most, is that the more goals the spirit buffs, the faster its health supply ends :(

[MisterDapper.5984]

At this point chrono has been killed for raiding/ T4 fractals/CMs as a support. We put so much time and gold into building these chrono support builds and now it’s not even viable. Moreover players aren’t compensated for these drastic changes. At the very least make some improvements to your raiding content before nerfing the backbone of it. Or make boon share/chrono tank a thing again.

[Kanok.3027]

My favorite class, Revenant, gets the shaft again. Still love the class, but ugh. When will it ever end?

[Obtena.7952]

@Crinn.7864 said:

@Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:

Necromancer

We'll be pushing some of its damage higher through skill updates in PvE, but will be mostly leaving it alone in competitive modes, as all the necromancer specializations have a healthy representation in competitive game modes._

So what you just told me is that necromancer is balanced based on popularity rather than effectiveness.

Explains a lot about the class.

More appropriately ... it's balanced on theme and the overall player's reaction to playing a class IS the appropriate measure for the classes health ... and if anyone thought or was hoping otherwise, they haven't been paying attention to the changes the game has been going through for the last 6+ years.

[mrauls.6519]

Please... make DH 25% movement not reliant on a major trait... make it a minor. That will fix SO many issues. Buff longbow 2 dmg by 20 percent in PvP... make lb 3 knockback baseline... BOOM... DH is ready for PvP

[Linken.6345]

@"lare.5129" said:Don't see something bad or wrong, only have some ideas:warrior:

• Banners no longer have skills and are instead destroyed when they're picked up. ??so if I put banner's and kill elite someone can run near, click on my banner and it dissapear ?? I feel this is bad idea, may be will be good that rule "Banners can now only be picked up by the warrior who summoned them." just make my banner non tochable for others.

because it looks like that I make mass boon, someone run near me, dispel it from himslef and also steal from me ..

It says under the banner changes

Banners can now only be picked up by the warrior who summoned them.

The answer is no someone else cant pick up your banners

[Klypto.1703]

@MisterDapper.5984 said:At this point chrono has been killed for raiding/ T4 fractals/CMs as a support. We put so much time and gold into building these chrono support builds and now it’s not even viable. Moreover players aren’t compensated for these drastic changes. At the very least make some improvements to your raiding content before nerfing the backbone of it. Or make boon share/chrono tank a thing again.

Yeah its players being penalized for how specs work in different game modes as well as players who just want things passively done for them. Although it may satisfy some players its just going to be the final nail in the coffin for a lot of players if this balance patch goes in like this. At this point they do not really care about retaining players they are doing what other companies are doing and going to the mobile and game console platforms like playstation and xbox for that next playerbase. So if they want to do this can't stop them but I'm not going to stick around for it.

[CombatEvolve.9238]

@Lord of the Fire.6870 said:

@CombatEvolve.9238 said:

@mordefelix.5826 said:Hey so does this mean an overall nerf to warrior banners? Because the 100% bonus wouldn't that give a 200 in terms of stats vs the 170 before? How does the math work?

Warriors with Disclipine trait line currently have 255 stats from banners, which will be reduced to 200. Everyone else has 170 from banners, but will get only 100 from banners after patch.Its an overall nerf to everyone, where Disc warriors suffer slightly less. ( Loss of 55 stats rather than 70)

Tempest got some support buff but its overall depressing . I can understand that Mirage is too strong in pvp or that Renegades condi damge is too big in PvE also DH's burst was a bit too strong but banners and Chrono ?. Banners are a core ability which exists forever also a good warrior can make more dps then a DH and Chrono isn't a over powerd PoF elite. I haven't done the number but in fractals because they take a DPS slot they are dangerously close to become obsolete with this.

I properly will finish my legendary weapon fetch the warclaw then turn my activity in gw 2 to minimum and take a look into my steam library enough unfinished games,

Banners have been incredibly strong since forever. 170 power/condi/prec/fero adds a lot of power to 10 people; I personally disagree with the nerfs to boon chrono and SotE . I feel like they are pushing too hard to make Mimic SoI bad when it should be an option. ToT I feel like should have been Alac going out, Quickness going in if they felt like it; cause the current CS opener has no quick alac.

[Omatsuri.4250]

@Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:

_Righteous Instincts has been an incredibly potent trait since it was reworked to grant a large boost to the player's critical-hit chance. Because of this, it has crowded out other grandmaster options for the radiance build. In this update, we're bringing down the power of this trait to be more in line with other grandmaster traits and to give a little boost to its competition.But what about replace Righteous Instincts (+50% crit chance with some might) and Retribution (+10% damage +250 ferocity)? Move might application from Righteous Instincts to Retribution to make it new grandmaster trait. In this case we have 2 options for power builds: deal more damage with Retribution or have some party support via signets. And old power builds will be the same

[Eloc Freidon.5692]

No reason to use Radiance anymore. The only trait I find useful other than Righteous Instincts was Retribution since I didn't use F1 often enough. Amplified Wrath's change is laughable since 5% duration to burning for one skill is nothing to consider and removing its only really good effect means why use it? And when you aren't using Signets Perfect Inscriptions doesn't even matter.

The 50% from Righteous Instincts along with the other traits was just barely enough to get to 80% Crit chance in total, but since the nerf is bringing my Guardian to 55% I'm just going to use a different line. Virtues or Zeal with Honor seems alright, even with the Honorable Staff trait nerf.

[mortrialus.3062]

Also I get that Chronomancer is overpowered and needs reworks. But can you stop and just release the reworks at once? Every. Single. Patch. We have to deal with some extremely disruptive balance changes that require us to shift out our gear stats, runes, sigils and trinket and learn a completely new rotation. It's exhausting. Can you just slow down and release a major rework when it's good and ready? Chronomancer has received more radical changes, reworks, and aggressive balance approaches to it's skills and abilities as well as targeted nerfs to the gear it uses than any other class or build in the game. Like can we just get it dealt with in one go? Having to change gear and learn an entirely new rotation every. single. patch is unfun, obnoxious and oppressive.

[John.1873]

hmmm, last time I checked Thief was in a bad spot for pvp (and somewhat in pve due to lack of utility). I don't think this will fix that at all.

[Dediggefedde.4961]

The gyro change sounds awsome!

Interestingly, the proposal for "wells" (moving AoE effect without HP bars) was made some weeks ago in the engi-forum for the function gyro.
And I only the function gyro is not changed now. ^^

• shredder gyro is now the new laser-disc.
• WvW-Healscrapper might be running purge or blast gyro in addition to EG & bulwark, depending on their strength.
• If blast gyro does enough might stacking and CC to push the spec more in PvE, it might also be worth it in WvW guild setups.
• If purge gyro does something like 1 group cleanse per 2 seconds at moderate CD, it's a nice addition, (even though a bit unneeded).
• Bulwark-gyro might be dropped, though... If this works like retaliation, it's also unblockable and unavoidable damage depending on your group's movement. in a 1vs1 it might be nice for the barrier and in WvW zergs for the dmg reduction, but it highly depends on if the barrier to dmg-redirection ratio will instantly kill you in a zerg.
• Medic gyro will probably still be less usefull than medikit, since it lacks condi-clear and burst-heal.
• sneak gyro is really nice for pvp/wvw. though, I guess the CD will drastically change, since a 30s long moving smoke field is a bit OP. ^^

The change on flameblast seems nice, but feels kind of random in this update...

[mumumu.1683]

No wonder people refuse to play chronos anymore . At this point either kill the class permanently and replace it with another class or let it be. Every single patch...

It feels like instead of doing a proper change to chrono it gets small hotfixes ever single patch. Every single patch people need to regear and learn complete new rotation.

[rank eleven monk.9502]

I just realized Dagger Storm is getting a free pass. Lmao

[Jables.4659]

"Exhaustion: This boon now stacks in duration up to 3 times." As others have mentioned, this is not a boon. When I first read this I thought "Oh cool, this must mean that they're finally tinkering with Elusive Mind." I wonder if the devs even realize that Mirage only has one option only for its Grandmaster trait. Sand Shards has the potential to reveal you on dodge as well as being underwhelming compared to Infinite Horizon on condition builds. Elusive Mind is already really bad. 6 seconds of exhaustion is just too much to cope with for a spec that relies so heavily on its dodges. Can't wait to test out the potential 18 second exhaustion meme. In all seriousness, the fact that this isn't seen as a problem to Anet means the balance team is either completely incompetent or genuinely hasn't noticed the issue. Either way, its a problem.

[Kylden Ar.3724]

@mumumu.1683 said:No wonder people refuse to play chronos anymore . At this point either kill the class permanently and replace it with another class or let it be. Every single patch...

It feels like instead of doing a proper change to chrono it gets small hotfixes ever single patch. Every single patch people need to regear and learn complete new rotation.

Not if you don't raid with it. A power shatter Chrono is still great for general use.

[Jables.4659]

@veslarius.8425 said:Why nerf core guard? It's already countered by Core War, Spellbreaker, Bunk Druid, Boonbeast, Condi-Mirage, Holosmith, and Scrapper. The only thing its good at fighting is all Thief classes, Necros, Condi-Engi, and Power Mes. It used to counter Rev but not since their dps buff.

If you want to nerf something nerf the pet dps of bunk ranger builds especially referring to Bunk Druid and Boon Beast. Nerf Deadeye stealth, engi turret heal, Mesmer damage mitigation aka -Blocks-Blinds-Invuln-Evades-Stealth-Teleport- all these together are a bit much.

They did nerf Mesmer damage mitigation. Reducing the evade time to that of a normal dodge is going to be significant. Any mirage with a brain is already running energy sigils on both weapon sets, that with the longer evade is the main reason they feel so cancerous to fight (that and the conditions which is also being nerfed).

[JMaarse.7086]

Thank you for sharing the notes early!

I would like to give some feedback from a raid perspective:

• I really like the change to Perfect Inscriptions, it might make it compete with Righteous Instincts, and provide more active gameplay.
• I'm not sure about Amplified Wrath, is the 15% modifier on burn damage still there? Is the 20% burn duration base or is it affected by condition duration cap? This trait could be a buff or a huge nerf to condition firebrand, depending on the answers.
• I am really sad about the change to Signet of the Ether, not because of the dps nerf, but because it was a really satisfying trick to pull off, and now chrono gameplay is just dumbed down even more.
• About support chrono, the boon uptimes don't change at all, the rotation is just different and the opening is now really annoying (you need to wait until ToT returns before you can cast SoI, or you won't extend alacrity, which probably means you can't use ToT in your opening CS). I don't understand why support chrono gameplay gets changed every patch, without actually changing the result. If permanent quickness and alacrity with 2 chronos is the goal, might as well make it less annoying to play (not easier), Just remove SoI at this point and make wells give boons on the first pulse or something like that, or give back the old SoI but 5 man and don't let it share resistance maybe.
• Power reaper buffs are nice, but I think they can get even more.
• I love the ranger spirit changes! Only thing that has me worried is the change to Nature's Vengeance, because sun spirit was the only reliable source of vigor, and it is now no longer 100% uptime. I don't know if this is an oversight, or if we are not supposed to have 100% vigor, but I really suggest giving more classes access to (AoE) vigor.
• About power revenenant, again it is acknowledged that it is under performing, but again the changes are nowhere near enough, 2.5% point damage increase and a buff to shackling wave is not enough and also at the same time the dps against large hitboxes is nerfed with Inspiring Reinforcement.
• The change to Song of the Mists is laughable unfortunately, even with these buffs no one will run this over Roiling Mists on power dps and Charged Mists on condi or support builds.
• I like the banner change, but I'm not sure about the reasoning behind it. Power warrior with banners really does not do a lot of damage, so perhaps that deserved a buff, while condi berserker does a lot of damage and taking banners is only a small sacrifice, so maybe that deserved a nerf. Also it seems strange to me that the recharge is reduced by 60 seconds on pickup regardless of the time the banner was been in place.

Overall the meta won't change at all after this patch, which is slightly disappointing, but overall I like most of the changes. I would love to see a big shakeup at some point. I really think support chrono needs a clear vision, because right now it is changing every patch but the boon stay the same, which just annoys chrono players more than anything else.

Small side note on WvW: I think it would be good if firebrand and scrourge (and perhaps herald) would be tuned down a bit to make room for more classes in the meta, which I'm sad didn't happen this patch.

[Nimon.7840]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Crinn.7864 said:

@Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:

Necromancer

We'll be pushing some of its damage higher through skill updates in PvE, but will be mostly leaving it alone in competitive modes, as all the necromancer specializations have a healthy representation in competitive game modes._

So what you just told me is that necromancer is balanced based on popularity rather than effectiveness.

Explains a lot about the class.

More appropriately ... it's balanced on theme

While every other class isn't? Seems fair.

and the overall player's reaction to playing a class IS the appropriate measure for the classes health ... and if anyone thought or was hoping otherwise, they haven't been paying attention to the changes the game has been going through for the last 6+ years.

[Routa.4136]

The Soulbeast changes should make their way to WvW as well.

I completely agree with nerfing the stealth gained from Silent Scope. However, thanks to Shadow Arts trait Meld with Shadows (+1s to your stealth granting skills), they might still be able to stay in stealth for an extended period, before cutting you down with Assassin's Signet + Malicious Backstab anyway. Tying stealth to dodging was never a good idea, and we'll still be reminded of that after the patch goes live.

[Lord of the Fire.6870]

@CombatEvolve.9238 said:

@Lord of the Fire.6870 said:

@CombatEvolve.9238 said:

@mordefelix.5826 said:Hey so does this mean an overall nerf to warrior banners? Because the 100% bonus wouldn't that give a 200 in terms of stats vs the 170 before? How does the math work?

Warriors with Disclipine trait line currently have 255 stats from banners, which will be reduced to 200. Everyone else has 170 from banners, but will get only 100 from banners after patch.Its an overall nerf to everyone, where Disc warriors suffer slightly less. ( Loss of 55 stats rather than 70)

Tempest got some support buff but its overall depressing . I can understand that Mirage is too strong in pvp or that Renegades condi damge is too big in PvE also DH's burst was a bit too strong but banners and Chrono ?. Banners are a core ability which exists forever also a good warrior can make more dps then a DH and Chrono isn't a over powerd PoF elite. I haven't done the number but in fractals because they take a DPS slot they are dangerously close to become obsolete with this.

I properly will finish my legendary weapon fetch the warclaw then turn my activity in gw 2 to minimum and take a look into my steam library enough unfinished games,

Banners have been incredibly strong since forever. 170 power/condi/prec/fero adds a lot of power to 10 people; I personally disagree with the nerfs to boon chrono and SotE . I feel like they are pushing too hard to make Mimic SoI bad when it should be an option. ToT I feel like should have been Alac going out, Quickness going in if they felt like it; cause the current CS opener has no quick alac.

In raids its will still work sthe problem is 5 man content you have bring enough boost for DPS with you to compensate for your lose by having a warrior carrying banners. This was already questioned if this is enough in the past because you effectively only boosting 2 other dps classes in this setup.

On the other side I have seen warriors with absolute insane DPS leaving DH in the dust and basically have 2x of the dps as a good staff weaver. Rarely seem them but I doubt they will share their build ^^

[ArthurDent.9538]

Could you please not do the inspiring reinforcement change? Litterally all this change does is make sure pve power rev DPS is crap on all hit-box sizes. It also hurts jalis in pvp but no one uses it there and they certainly won't after this. You are just kicking a dead build that you already killed off years ago with the facet of nature/soi nerfs. And no, the targeted destruction and shackling wave changes are not nearly adequate compensation, the basic math isn't hard to figure that out.

[Kirin.7306]

I don't even want to log in anymore.

[Obtena.7952]

@Nimon.7840 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Crinn.7864 said:

@Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:

Necromancer

We'll be pushing some of its damage higher through skill updates in PvE, but will be mostly leaving it alone in competitive modes, as all the necromancer specializations have a healthy representation in competitive game modes._

So what you just told me is that necromancer is balanced based on popularity rather than effectiveness.

Explains a lot about the class.

More appropriately ... it's balanced on theme

While every other class isn't? Seems fair.

Seems that EVERY class to me is balanced primarily on theme .. that's why none of them are inline with a common performance target. At least not yet ... maybe in 4-6 more years.