Balance Patch

[Quadox.7834]

@TheVaultHunter.6835 said:So still not viable in PvP? Its really weird that anet doesnt see that ele is complete garbage in PvP. For everything weaver does there is another class that does it better. Why dont we get a buff which wont force us into water anymore? Give weaver a condi cleanse or some heals or give some sustain to another traitline. The condi remove in fire is a joke for weavers

Core/weaver still bad in PvP but maybe tempest support can be decent.

[Skyroar.2974]

@Quadox.7834 said:

@TheVaultHunter.6835 said:So still not viable in PvP? Its really weird that anet doesnt see that ele is complete garbage in PvP. For everything weaver does there is another class that does it better. Why dont we get a buff which wont force us into water anymore? Give weaver a condi cleanse or some heals or give some sustain to another traitline. The condi remove in fire is a joke for weavers

Core/weaver still bad in PvP but maybe tempest support can be decent.Weaver is already close to viable, and with the nerfs to meta builds, it may get used more.

Tempest will probably still be worse than Weaver, or about equal at best.

[Quadox.7834]

@"DiogoSilva.7089" said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@TheVaultHunter.6835 said:So still not viable in PvP? Its really weird that anet doesnt see that ele is complete garbage in PvP. For everything weaver does there is another class that does it better. Why dont we get a buff which wont force us into water anymore? Give weaver a condi cleanse or some heals or give some sustain to another traitline. The condi remove in fire is a joke for weavers

Core/weaver still bad in PvP but maybe tempest support can be decent.Weaver is already close to viable, and with the nerfs to meta builds, it may get used more.

Tempest will probably still be worse than Weaver, or about equal at best.

Maybe, I will just wait and see.

[Auburner.6945]

I won't say weaver is meta, the bunker is. That bunker build is really boring and ele needs to pick an offensive trait line for once.

[steki.1478]

@Auburner.6945 said:Edit: Also Rebound would give 4s of ignoring a lethal blow for 15 players.

Only 10 people, rebound is not an aura.

[Auburner.6945]

Woops! You're right

[MyPuppy.8970]

There was no ele nerf at least, only interresting thing is -20% DR on woven earth. Tempest buffs are appreciable but all ele issues still remain.

[cgMatt.5162]

@MyPuppy.8970 said:There was no ele nerf at least, only interresting thing is -20% DR on woven earth. Tempest buffs are appreciable but all ele issues still remain.Should help out with PvE toughness aggro mechanics at least. WvW NPCs aggro on toughness too but this is mostly a non-issue. Wish they would change Woven Water outgoing healing to healing or incoming healing though because most competitive game mode meta builds do not get much benefit from outgoing healing modifiers (it's Tempest that's support, not Weaver).

[Jski.6180]

@"Mil.3562" said:So after the patch... Tempestuous Aria > Invigorating Torrents?

If your in a group bigger then 5 fighting groups bigger then 5 yes. If not then reg / vigor is better. So in wvw and i guess "big" pve.

Also its ice bow now best updates ever as every one calls it an ice bow not a frost bow for years now lol.

[Quadox.7834]

@Jski.6180 said:

@"Mil.3562" said:So after the patch... Tempestuous Aria > Invigorating Torrents?

If your in a group bigger then 5 fighting groups bigger then 5 yes. If not then reg / vigor is better. So in wvw and i guess "big" pve.

Also its ice bow now best updates ever as every one calls it an ice bow not a frost bow for years now lol.

Pretty sure it's the opposite; they renamed ice bow to frost bow? No?

[Bladestrom.6425]

since when was the issue with ele the lack of ability to buff/hit 10 players at the same time? Simply put, people in charge of balance are incompetent or students or obsessed with raids/ ex wow players.

[TheVaultHunter.6835]

@"DiogoSilva.7089" said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@TheVaultHunter.6835 said:So still not viable in PvP? Its really weird that anet doesnt see that ele is complete garbage in PvP. For everything weaver does there is another class that does it better. Why dont we get a buff which wont force us into water anymore? Give weaver a condi cleanse or some heals or give some sustain to another traitline. The condi remove in fire is a joke for weavers

Core/weaver still bad in PvP but maybe tempest support can be decent.Weaver is already close to viable, and with the nerfs to meta builds, it may get used more.

Tempest will probably still be worse than Weaver, or about equal at best.

weaver is just a bad soulbeast imo.if you run into a mirage you can survive but never kill the mirage unless he is trash

[Stallic.2397]

@Jski.6180 said:

@"Mil.3562" said:So after the patch... Tempestuous Aria > Invigorating Torrents?

If your in a group bigger then 5 fighting groups bigger then 5 yes. If not then reg / vigor is better. So in wvw and i guess "big" pve.

Also its ice bow now best updates ever as every one calls it an ice bow not a frost bow for years now lol.

I'm pretty confused about the conjure weapon change. They changed the name. Is that supposed to have an effect on gameplay or something?

[steki.1478]

@Stallic.2397 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@"Mil.3562" said:So after the patch... Tempestuous Aria > Invigorating Torrents?

If your in a group bigger then 5 fighting groups bigger then 5 yes. If not then reg / vigor is better. So in wvw and i guess "big" pve.

Also its ice bow now best updates ever as every one calls it an ice bow not a frost bow for years now lol.

I'm pretty confused about the conjure weapon change. They changed the name. Is that supposed to have an effect on gameplay or something?

Just a name change. Currently the skill is called ice bow, but the weapon on the ground is frost bow. I believe they did the same with earth/magnetic shield in previous patch.

[LazySummer.2568]

@vesica tempestas.1563 said:since when was the issue with ele the lack of ability to buff/hit 10 players at the same time? Simply put, people in charge of balance are incompetent or students or obsessed with raids/ ex wow players.

Even with the change listed, there's still no reason to take a tempest support over druid/fb/ren or even scourge in raids. Not to mention that taking the 10-man shout trait directly competes with a part of tempest's healing output (regen).

The only change this balance patch does is make FA dps tempest feel a bit more relevant in raids with Sand Squall extending boon duration and a couple of tempest to have fun trolling enemies in wvw with their long cd 10-man frost aura/magnetic aura or keeping 10 teammates alive a bit longer with rebound. Nobody cares about the low amount of basic boons tempest got this patch when fb & revs can spam them on lower cd or have them on passive on top of having more useful ones such as stability, resistance, alacrity, and quickness.

[zencow.3651]

@LazySummer.2568 said:

@vesica tempestas.1563 said:since when was the issue with ele the lack of ability to buff/hit 10 players at the same time? Simply put, people in charge of balance are incompetent or students or obsessed with

raids

/ ex wow players.

Even with the change listed, there's still no reason to take a tempest support over druid/fb/ren or even scourge in raids. Not to mention that taking the 10-man shout trait directly competes with a part of tempest's healing output (regen).

The only change this balance patch does is make FA dps tempest feel a bit more relevant in raids with Sand Squall extending boon duration and a couple of tempest to have fun trolling enemies in wvw with their long cd 10-man frost aura/magnetic aura or keeping 10 teammates alive a bit longer with rebound. Nobody cares about the low amount of basic boons tempest got this patch when fb & revs can spam them on lower cd or have them on passive on top of having more useful ones such as stability, resistance, alacrity, and quickness.

In raids the Frost shout's regen and regen from Elemental Attunement and weapon skills should be enough to maintain so it's not entirely pointless.

Tempest already began to have niche in WvW support since Smothering Auras and 10 man Overload Water and Earth updates. The upcoming patch would solidify the strengths that sets it apart from Firebrand through 10-man condi-clearing with Antitoxin and 10-man reapplications of Protections through Earth Overload/Aftershock/Sand Squall and 10-man inflictions of weakness to dampen enemy bombs on melee engage.

[Arheundel.6451]

@zencow.3651 said:

@LazySummer.2568 said:

@"vesica tempestas.1563" said:since when was the issue with ele the lack of ability to buff/hit 10 players at the same time? Simply put, people in charge of balance are incompetent or students or obsessed with

raids

/ ex wow players.

Even with the change listed, there's still no reason to take a tempest support over druid/fb/ren or even scourge in raids. Not to mention that taking the 10-man shout trait directly competes with a part of tempest's healing output (regen).

The only change this balance patch does is make FA dps tempest feel a bit more relevant in raids with Sand Squall extending boon duration and a couple of tempest to have fun trolling enemies in wvw with their long cd 10-man frost aura/magnetic aura or keeping 10 teammates alive a bit longer with rebound. Nobody cares about the low amount of basic boons tempest got this patch when fb & revs can spam them on lower cd or have them on passive on top of having more useful ones such as stability, resistance, alacrity, and quickness.

In raids the Frost shout's regen and regen from Elemental Attunement and weapon skills should be enough to maintain so it's not entirely pointless.

Tempest already began to have niche in WvW support since Smothering Auras and 10 man Overload Water and Earth updates. The upcoming patch would solidify the strengths that sets it apart from Firebrand through 10-man condi-clearing with Antitoxin and 10-man reapplications of Protections through Earth Overload/Aftershock/Sand Squall and 10-man inflictions of weakness to dampen enemy bombs on melee engage.

Tell my why any sane commander would drop a buffed scrapper with ...a tempest; the incoming scrapper will be a walking barrier/condi clear/stealth/heal burst dispenser and yet you say that a commander would pick a tempest over it....it makes no sense from a logical point of view

ElementalistIn this update, and in the future, we're looking to enhance the support role of tempests through boons, healing, and cleansing. Specific to today's release, we've adjusted the tempest's support through its skills, shouts, and traits. With this in mind, we've added some classic elemental attunement support to each of the shouts, and we've altered Tempestuous Aria so that its support functions are easier to access for tempest players.

• Conjure Frost Bow: Changed the name of the item summoned by this skill from "ice bow" to "frost bow."• Sand Squall: The increased boon duration that this skill grants has been increased from 2 seconds to 3 seconds. The number of allies this affects has been increased from 5 to 10.• "Wash the Pain Away!": This skill now cleanses one condition from nearby allies on its final pulse.• "Feel the Burn!": This skill now applies 3 stacks of might to nearby allies for 10 seconds in addition to its other effects. Updated the effects to more accurately represent the attack's radius. Updated the hit detection to be more consistent at close distances.• "Flash-Freeze!": This skill now applies 4 seconds of regeneration to nearby allies in addition to its other effects.• "Aftershock!": This skill now applies 5 seconds of protection to nearby allies in addition to its other effects.• "Eye of the Storm!": This skill now applies 10 seconds of swiftness to nearby allies in addition to its other effects.• "Rebound!": This skill now applies 5 seconds of fury to nearby allies in addition to its other effects.• Weave Self: The toughness effect provided by Woven Earth has been replaced by a 20% reduction in incoming physical damage.• Tempestuous Aria: This trait now modifies tempest shouts to affect up to 10 targets in addition to its current effects.

EngineerWith this update, we're reworking one of the less reliable skill sets: gyros. While potent, their difficulty to use and to optimize has brought them to a spot where they're not really desirable outside of a few niche situations. As part of this rework, gyros are being reclassified as wells, and the scrapper's particular version of them is mobile and point-blank to enhance the scrapper's melee-oriented playstyle.

• The gyro class of skills has been reworked and changed to wells. Gyros are now no longer targetable and instead hover over the engineer to grant their effects.• Flame Blast: This skill now targets the ground and will explode automatically when it hits the targeted location.• Light Strike: Fixed a bug that caused this skill to display incorrect damage in PvP when a trait is equipped with Crystal Configuration: Storm.• Blast Gyro Tag: This skill has been reworked and renamed Blast Gyro. The gyro now creates a fire field that follows the engineer while it pulses might to nearby allies every second during its countdown to a significant explosion.• Medic Gyro: This skill has been reworked. The gyro now creates a water field that follows the engineer while it pulses heals to the player and nearby allies every second.• Bulwark Gyro: This skill has been reworked. The gyro now creates a lightning field that follows the engineer while it grants them barrier every second and redirects some damage from nearby allies to the engineer.• Purge Gyro: This skill has been reworked. The gyro now creates a light field that follows the engineer while it removes conditions from the player and nearby allies every second.• Shredder Gyro: This skill has been reworked. The gyro now follows the engineer and performs a whirl finisher that inflicts damage on nearby enemies every second.• Sneak Gyro: This skill has been reworked. The gyro now creates a smoke field that follows the engineer while it grants stealth to the player and nearby allies every second.• Shocking Speed: This trait now increases the radius of effect of all gyro skills and causes them to grant superspeed to nearby allies on their final pulse.• Expert Examination: This trait no longer alters a gyro's behavior to inflict weakness and vulnerability upon its detonation.• Crystal Configuration: Storm: Projectiles fired by this trait no longer deal reduced damage. Updated the tool tip to now use the phrase "projectile range" instead of "range threshold."• Crystal Configuration: Eclipse: Reduced this trait's stability duration from 4 seconds to 2 seconds in PvP and WvW.• Crystal Configuration: Zephyr: This trait now causes Holo Leap to inflict cripple for 1 second in addition to its previous effects.

Like...why would I need a tempest when I can get a scrapper? Maybe we can review everything in 2021 when they will finish "buffing" tempest

[zencow.3651]

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@zencow.3651 said:

@LazySummer.2568 said:

@"vesica tempestas.1563" said:since when was the issue with ele the lack of ability to buff/hit 10 players at the same time? Simply put, people in charge of balance are incompetent or students or obsessed with

raids

/ ex wow players.

Even with the change listed, there's still no reason to take a tempest support over druid/fb/ren or even scourge in raids. Not to mention that taking the 10-man shout trait directly competes with a part of tempest's healing output (regen).

The only change this balance patch does is make FA dps tempest feel a bit more relevant in raids with Sand Squall extending boon duration and a couple of tempest to have fun trolling enemies in wvw with their long cd 10-man frost aura/magnetic aura or keeping 10 teammates alive a bit longer with rebound. Nobody cares about the low amount of basic boons tempest got this patch when fb & revs can spam them on lower cd or have them on passive on top of having more useful ones such as stability, resistance, alacrity, and quickness.

In raids the Frost shout's regen and regen from Elemental Attunement and weapon skills should be enough to maintain so it's not entirely pointless.

Tempest already began to have niche in WvW support since Smothering Auras and 10 man Overload Water and Earth updates. The upcoming patch would solidify the strengths that sets it apart from Firebrand through 10-man condi-clearing with Antitoxin and 10-man reapplications of Protections through Earth Overload/Aftershock/Sand Squall and 10-man inflictions of weakness to dampen enemy bombs on melee engage.

Tell my why any sane commander would drop a buffed scrapper with ...a tempest; the incoming scrapper will be a walking barrier/condi clear/stealth/heal burst dispenser and yet you say that a commander would pick a tempest over it....it makes no sense from a logical point of view

Like...why would I need a tempest when I can get a scrapper? Maybe we can review everything in 2021 when they will finish "buffing" tempest

Did I ever say Tempest would replace Scrapper? I don't think Anet's aim was ever to make Tempest support any way like Firebrand or Scrapper 2.0 given how they're obviously refusing to give it AoE stability but is instead giving it more 10 effects which certainly DOES set it apart now compared to 3 months ago when Tempest was only good as a Soothing Mist bot.

The more efficient havocs and 20-man guilds though already used Tempest for 9-man Soothing Mist and 10-man Overloads since that update as it provides more slot compression to squeeze in an extra DPS slot unlike the average bandwagoning zergs who just stacks 2 firebrand per subgroup.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

I would not underestimate 10 Target Magnet Aura and Frostaura.

For Zerging, both will see play but scrapper is 100% melee (mortar doesn’t count) while Tempest can play staff.

Most zergs will probably have 3-5 Tempest and/or Scrapper at most.Which is also enough.

[Emberheart.8426]

Tempest will get quite a bit better in WvW and PvE in this update, but I suspect that this buff will not be quite enough for WvW except for very niche uses. For PvP the buffs are almost non-existent. At least Irenio did say in his post that they are going to be giving more buffs to tempest in the future. It seems like the balance team wants tempest to have its own support niche separate from scrapper and firebrand, which may be why they are refusing to give it any stability, quickness or alacrity. All the shouts got the usual ele boons and nothing new. Many of these boons are provided by too many classes, so you cannot keep buffing tempest with these exclusively and expect it to be a common meta pick.

It was the tempestuous aria change that made the entire balance patch at least somewhat worthwhile. Changing boons and auras from shouts to 10-man at least makes tempest impact a raid squad which helps justify a slot for it. It also gives it a little bit more pressure against enemy zergs with 10-man weakness and some extra CC if you use aftershock. I believe that the next step forward is to make vigor a little bit easier to access and to buff some of the auras, since these are aspects of tempests that are not very present in firebrand and scrapper builds.

Magnetic aura and shocking aura are pretty good, and this is why I am certain that it will feel amazing to apply these to 10 people. However, frost aura and especially fire shield do not feel that amazing to use. Frost aura is considered pretty decent by some players, but then you consider how limited the application time is you realize that having -10% incoming damage with such low uptime is not very good. Burst is very high, so even if you time it properly it is likely that it will not make a major difference. This is not to say that it necessarily should have a higher damage reduction, but it at least needs some kind of a buff even if minor. Fire shield is simply pathetic. It serves as nothing but a proc for aura traits. It has never been a good aura. The burning barely lasts and even if it lasted it wouldn't matter because support tempest should not be stacking condition damage. 1 might when being struck is also a massive joke, especially with how easy it is to stack might these days. Tempest can build 25 might pretty reliably without fire shield, so the little might that you will get from fire shield effectively does not exist anyway. So you have an aura here that literally does nothing but a bit of tickle damage. Fire shield needs massive buffs.

Also, I don't know why chaos armor still does not interact with ele aura traits. If ele traits only applied from elemental auras and light aura did not count as well, I would understand. But light aura works while chaos armor does not. This is a minor inconsistency, but I know that the balance devs like fixing inconsistencies and solving this one would be a minor buff to tempest.

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

I agree this is some love for players who already play tempest, but it will still be far from Fb, Chrono or even scourge, scrapper, herald. Tempest, and raid/zerg/pvp etc doesn't need 4sec fury on 75sec CD skill or regen or 3 mights on 25-30sec CD skills; every others supports do it better.Auras need to be more determinant; magnetic and shocking auras are above average but we already lose the schocking one in the air spec and magnetic one need you to chose between important traits in the tempest spec; they could be a bit consolidated (in duration or added effect or icd); and fire shield and frost aura ... what a joke ... who cares to burst someone with that !? remove the 1sec icd.Tempest need to share Resistance or alacrity, not the regular boons or 1 condicleanse every one can already spread by passives traits, tempest need powerbuff added to the auras or the overload, like the arcane skills for example, like a lesser harmonious conduit and not just 1 lightning strike. And tempest need to see Elemental Bastion exchanged with the powerful aura from the water spec.

[Guizao.4167]

Another buff for support, and no love for DPS eles. BIG S I G HIs there a way to skip to the next balance patch?

[Cicada.6298]

@TheVaultHunter.6835 said:So still not viable in PvP? Its really weird that anet doesnt see that ele is complete garbage in PvP. For everything weaver does there is another class that does it better. Why dont we get a buff which wont force us into water anymore? Give weaver a condi cleanse or some heals or give some sustain to another traitline. The condi remove in fire is a joke for weavers

This is one of the problems I have with the class -- other classes can do what we do, only better. In addition, the class is expensive -- because a lot of our skills are reliant on coefficients, I need a different set of gear for each build to be effective.

oh well, It's what I chose, and I guess the class is anet's bastard child.

[Jski.6180]

I would love to see the well gyros effects some how get carryed over to ele glyph of storms in combo finishers. Earth would be mud blasts, fire would be a tonator whirl, air would be gust leaps, and water would be ice falling projectiles. Making it where you would use to cast your fields on where your using the glyph of storms to push out more effects. (ele has enofe field skills from there wepon seeing more combo enders on utility would be fun and add some depth to just dmg skill.)

[Milosz.5938]

I'm copying my own comment from "Update notes" here:

HehehehehehehehetrololololoConjure Frost Bow: Changed the name of the item summoned by this skill from "ice bow" to "frost bow." the most important change hehehehehehehehehehe

and few other nice fragments :astonished: ;

...The increased boon duration that this skill grants has been increased from 2 seconds to 3 seconds. wow 1 secund more thxxxxxxx trololo

(((((((((((((((((( "Wash the Pain Away!": This skill now cleanses one condition from nearby allies on its final pulse.• "Feel the Burn!": This skill now applies 3 stacks of might to nearby allies for 10 seconds in addition to its other effects. Updated the effects to more accurately represent the attack's radius. Updated the hit detection to be more consistent at close distances.• "Flash-Freeze!": This skill now applies 4 seconds of regeneration to nearby allies in addition to its other effects.• "Aftershock!": This skill now applies 5 seconds of protection to nearby allies in addition to its other effects.• "Eye of the Storm!": This skill now applies 10 seconds of swiftness to nearby allies in addition to its other effects.• "Rebound!": This skill now applies 5 seconds of fury to nearby allies in addition to its other effects. ))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) = 1 elixir in engineer utility skill's slot trolololo so why you wrote soo much text...Usefull trololo changes in trololo elementalist.

WOW thx ....from 2 to 3 secunds... more time for laughing