RIP Istan

[Tails.9372]

@"Donari.5237" said:Question -- isn't the main Istan farm the meta assault on Joko's palace, not the smaller one on Warden Amala? The patch notes only refer to the Warden Amala event.

Nope, the camp bags in GH were the main reason why people still visited Istan. Palawadan was only good for the chests and they killed that one last month. You can still get the chests once a day but both metas need a substantial amount of players in order to be "playable" and there is no guarantee that there will be enough now that most people don't really have a reason to do them anymore.

[Biff.5312]

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:I don't agree: the obligation is all self-imposed. It's just a mistake to suggest that there aren't actually a ton of people who feel that gold farming is an essential component of their GW2 experience.Of course, just because this is a large group doesn't mean that ANet should adjust the game accordingly.

That's true. They need to strike a balance. Fact is, if they just dumped treasure on us, the same people would complain that they now have nothing to work towards hence no reason to play. Unfortunately I think experience in other MMOs has somewhat tainted the player base, setting expectations that gold-farming is essential to the gaming experience. So many players feel like they're grinding out a second job in the MMOs they play. I really think that large group that wants their gold farm are mostly impossible to satisfy either way.

[Hashberry.4510]

Converting VM to trophies is more lucrative now, perhaps due to the nerf?

[Jemmi.6058]

@Biff.5312 said:

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:I don't agree: the obligation is all self-imposed. It's just a mistake to suggest that there aren't actually a ton of people who feel that gold farming is an essential component of their GW2 experience.Of course, just because this is a large group doesn't mean that ANet should adjust the game accordingly.

That's true. They need to strike a balance. Fact is, if they just dumped treasure on us, the same people would complain that they now have nothing to work towards hence no reason to play. Unfortunately I think experience in other MMOs has somewhat tainted the player base, setting expectations that gold-farming is essential to the gaming experience. So many players feel like they're grinding out a second job in the MMOs they play. I really think that large group that wants their gold farm are mostly impossible to satisfy either way.

My personal need for gold farming is exclusive to GW2. In FFXIV and WoW, I had some passive gold/gil obtainment that more than sated my needs. However, gold is so crucial to GW2. In GW2 you set your own goals, and it just so happens that I set my goals and worked towards them. I returned to the game with this patch (Jan 8) and set a goal to get a gryphon, and then to craft up a medium and light armor viper set, which costs hundreds of gold each. I don't feel that gold farming was conditioned at all from other MMORPGs, and is actually just a direct consequence of how GW2 is set up.

[Biff.5312]

@Jemmi.6058 said:

My personal need for gold farming is exclusive to GW2. In FFXIV and WoW, I had some passive gold/gil obtainment that more than sated my needs. However, gold is so crucial to GW2. In GW2 you set your own goals, and it just so happens that I set my goals and worked towards them. I returned to the game with this patch (Jan 8) and set a goal to get a gryphon, and then to craft up a medium and light armor viper set, which costs hundreds of gold each. I don't feel that gold farming was conditioned at all from other MMORPGs, and is actually just a direct consequence of how GW2 is set up.

Maybe so. Still, when I went to get my griffon I already had a few thousand gold just from playing - I never farmed it. So I was able to get it right away. I have never had any trouble paying for things in game because I don't expect to complete goals instantly. I just let my gold build up over time as I play, and every now and then I buy something. So although it may be necessary for the way you play GW2, it isn't for the way I play GW2. Part of what I meant about gold farming is that a lot of players who migrate to GW2 from other games want/expect to have full, top end gear etc. within a couple of weeks of starting the game. You've been back less than two months and have a griffon and 2 ascended armor sets. I don't know if you started from a zero balance, but those are items that are meant to take time to acquire.

[Jemmi.6058]

@Biff.5312 said:

@Jemmi.6058 said:

My personal need for gold farming is exclusive to GW2. In FFXIV and WoW, I had some passive gold/gil obtainment that more than sated my needs. However, gold is so crucial to GW2. In GW2 you set your own goals, and it just so happens that I set my goals and worked towards them. I returned to the game with this patch (Jan 8) and set a goal to get a gryphon, and then to craft up a medium and light armor viper set, which costs hundreds of gold each. I don't feel that gold farming was conditioned at all from other MMORPGs, and is actually just a direct consequence of how GW2 is set up.

Maybe so. Still, when I went to get my griffon I already had a few thousand gold just from playing - I never farmed it. So I was able to get it right away. I have never had any trouble paying for things in game because I don't expect to complete goals instantly. I just let my gold build up over time as I play, and every now and then I buy something. So although it may be necessary for the way you play GW2, it isn't for the way I play GW2. Part of what I meant about gold farming is that a lot of players who migrate to GW2 from other games want/expect to have full, top end gear etc. within a couple of weeks of starting the game. You've been back less than two months and have a griffon and 2 ascended armor sets. I don't know if you started from a zero balance, but those are items that are meant to take time to acquire.

Nah, I didn't have a zero balance. I have been playing on and off since early access, so I had some stuff around. Personally, I don't know how you're able to build up that much gold :P If mine ever hits 300, I'm spending it on something or other. I have other goals in mind that I continue to work toward.

[Biff.5312]

@Jemmi.6058 said:

@Biff.5312 said:

@Jemmi.6058 said:

My personal need for gold farming is exclusive to GW2. In FFXIV and WoW, I had some passive gold/gil obtainment that more than sated my needs. However, gold is so crucial to GW2. In GW2 you set your own goals, and it just so happens that I set my goals and worked towards them. I returned to the game with this patch (Jan 8) and set a goal to get a gryphon, and then to craft up a medium and light armor viper set, which costs hundreds of gold each. I don't feel that gold farming was conditioned at all from other MMORPGs, and is actually just a direct consequence of how GW2 is set up.

Maybe so. Still, when I went to get my griffon I already had a few thousand gold just from playing - I never farmed it. So I was able to get it right away. I have never had any trouble paying for things in game because I don't expect to complete goals instantly. I just let my gold build up over time as I play, and every now and then I buy something. So although it may be necessary for the way you play GW2, it isn't for the way I play GW2. Part of what I meant about gold farming is that a lot of players who migrate to GW2 from other games want/expect to have full, top end gear etc. within a couple of weeks of starting the game. You've been back less than two months and have a griffon and 2 ascended armor sets. I don't know if you started from a zero balance, but those are items that are meant to take time to acquire.

Nah, I didn't have a zero balance. I have been playing on and off since early access, so I had some stuff around. Personally, I don't know how you're able to build up that much gold :P If mine ever hits 300, I'm spending it on something or other. I have other goals in mind that I continue to work toward.

That's sort of my point. Different play styles, different expectations. I don't think you shouldn't be able to farm for gold, I just don't think it's an inherent necessity in order to play the game. I admit I had to forego some things in the early stages, preferring to amass some cash rather than get every little thing I wanted. But now that I have that heap-o-gold, I can usually indulge most fancies. In fact, I'm currently contemplating buying a legendary weapon flat out.

[MoriMoriMori.5349]

@Biff.5312 said:Unfortunately I think experience in other MMOs has somewhat tainted the player base, setting expectations that gold-farming is essential to the gaming experience. So many players feel like they're grinding out a second job in the MMOs they play. I really think that large group that wants their gold farm are mostly impossible to satisfy either way.

The fact people actually do it just blows my mind. I heard it's something like 20-30g/hour, right? So it's something about ~1$/hr. Unless you are resident of South America's state or some poorer Eastern Europe's state, that's just laughably low per hour wage. What gives? Wouldn't it be more reasonable to just take a few extra hours at your work, or a side project, for a few hundreds $, swipe it away - and just play your game, having some fun? I saw people who do farming discussing how they kill their boredom while doing so (because apparently it's as little fun for them as it looks like for me, as a bystander) - i.e. somebody watches TV, or sitcoms on the another monitor, or listen to some audiobooks. Those people don't even find much pleasure in what they are doing, yet they keep doing what effectively is a work, a chore, not a game - for months. What's going on in their heads, I wonder? How do they justify it?

Even if you are no living in the 1st-world country of sort, if you have enough money income to buy DLCs, gaming rig and internet services, you still should have much better sources of income than grinding gold in game at 1$/hr, instead of actually playing it.

[Blocki.4931]

@MoriMoriMori.5349 said:

@Biff.5312 said:Unfortunately I think experience in other MMOs has somewhat tainted the player base, setting expectations that gold-farming is essential to the gaming experience. So many players feel like they're grinding out a second job in the MMOs they play. I really think that large group that wants their gold farm are mostly impossible to satisfy either way.

The fact people actually do it just blows my mind. I heard, it's something like 20-30g/hour, right? So it's something about ~1$/hr. Unless you are resident of

South

America's state or some poorer

Eastern

Europe's state, that's just laughably low per hour wage. What gives? Wouldn't it be more reasonable to just take a few extra hours at your work, or a side project, for a few hundreds $, swipe it away - and just play your game, having some fun? I saw people who do farming discussing how they kill their boredom while doing so (because apparently it's as little fun for them as it looks like for me, as a bystander) - i.e. somebody watches TV, or sitcoms on the another monitor, or listen to some audiobooks. Those people don't even find much pleasure in what they are doing, yet they keep doing what effectively is a work, a chore, not a game - for months. What's going on in their heads, I wonder? How do they justify it?

Even if you are no living in the 1st-world country of sort, if you have enough money income to buy DLCs, gaming rig and internet services, you still should have much better sources of income than grinding gold in game at 1$/hr, instead of actually playing it.

People HAVE FUN grinding/farming for gold. Just buying what you want isn't satisfying for maaaany people.

[MoriMoriMori.5349]

@"Blocki.4931" said:People HAVE FUN grinding/farming for gold. Just buying what you want isn't satisfying for maaaany people.

I'll be honest here: that sounds like absolute madness to me. I can understand people who play TP, it's still a game, you analyze, take decisions, risk, invest, make mistakes, get lucky etc. Gold for them is just a part of game system, a resource. But "grinding for money" as source of fun - that's totally beyond any reason. It's not a game for sure, as running as part of zerg, repeating the same actions for hours with your brain idling isn't a game by definition - like cleaning your toilet or doing other house chores isn't. I have a feeling tending to some garden or lawn would be more healthy for those people, really :) Effectively, it's the very same kind of activity - a chore - but at least you get something real you can be proud of, in the end, not just empty numbers on some server which you don't even own (by EULA).

[hugo.4705]

Don't want a farm nerfed? Simple, don't speak about it or put its name anywhere. I know that in the past I just briefly mentioned afk farmers in ruins of holy demetra (harathi hinterlands) the next patch, all ghosts got their loot removed, no more dust loot. So, stay silent I guess. SW IS NEXT.

Simply can't understand decisions like that..... peoples have fun, earn money and so they are happy so NERF! The game take a very dangerous path. It's not inciting peoples to buy gems with real money, they remove everything fun why supporting them?

[Aerlen.5326]

Oh kitten you, Anet.

I didn't farm Istan 24/7, I went for maybe three GH a day and one Pala because it helped me have enough mats/items to sell to save up for when I really needed gold and got me some nice exotic skins I didn't have yet. How dare I take maybe 90 minutes a day to farm and enjoy myself before going back to map completes, story chapters, achievements, and grinding. How. Dare.

If I complain loudly enough about the grind for the Gift of Battle, will that get nerfed too? eyeroll

[Sammy.5601]

The least they could have done was boost chest drops substantially alongside the nerf to make it at least worth running once a day and makeup for some of the lost gold from consecutive GH runs while waiting for Pala during your daily rotation so it won't be completely dead, but I guess that's asking for too much.

I don't see any reason to go to Istan now and the SW meta farm is just boring beyond belief. Yes, I could just buy gems and convert them to gold but at that point, why am I bothering to play this game at all? My goals are to earn items in game and use them in game while I earn more items and have fun with the game, if I'm buying everything what reason do I have to play this game between new LS episodes?

[kharmin.7683]

@"Jura.2170" said:I said this before after the last Istan nerf. Without farming, it would take a year or more for casual players to afford expensive stuff like legendaries, infusions and some dyes

This game needs farming

While I don't disagree on the need for farming, I do wonder why taking a year or more for casual players to make legendaries is a problem. To me, that's the point of making them. It's supposed to be time consuming and resource intensive. That's what makes them "legendary".

[MoriMoriMori.5349]

@hugo.4705 said:Simply can't understand decisions like that..... peoples have fun, earn money and so they are happy so NERF!

If it comes to reasons, there could be quite a few.

Hampering activity of those who farms gold for RMTing it, possibly with botting involved (as huge zergs make work of a botter much, much simpler - instead of implementing a proper AI now they need a very simplistic one as they just need to tag a mob, or burst a few, and run somewhere else) - for one. The less botters/RMTers - the healthier is the economy, and community in general (people don't like bots and botters, usually, you don't want those be too obvious, or they will start panicking - and it's bad for business).

Spreading people all over maps more evenly could be another reason. Current situation is - a few maps are crowded where those who want to play the game can't have much fun as zergs killing everything too fast and making game too easy and uninteresting. And the rest of the maps are quite empty and at certain hours you may be the only guy at an event (and asking for help in map chat isn't a good solution, as often it results in a zerg forming around you, as people often overly-enthusiastic to help others :) - while you just would like to have 3-5 other guys, not more than that, to still have a fun, engaging combat encounter)

I already mentioned the fact it may make Anet earn more from selling gems too.

[Bloodstealer.5978]

@Blocki.4931 said:

@MoriMoriMori.5349 said:

@Blocki.4931 said:Its the inconsistency that bothers me.

Leather farm? Nobody bats an eye that this is farmed 24/7.SW? Been this way for years.

But Istan? No, they don't want people to "only farm one map 24/7" when they were asked.

@Blocki.4931 said:Its the inconsistency that bothers me.

Leather farm? Nobody bats an eye that this is farmed 24/7.SW? Been this way for years.

But Istan? No, they don't want people to "only farm one map 24/7" when they were asked.

Well, the obvious solution is to nerf those as well now ))I don't care, tbh. Farming nerfed or not, it's still won't reduce fan for me too much. If anything, I would prefer those maps (all 80lv maps, actually) be populated with mobs showing a similar AI and capabilities you can see in AI opponents in Heart of the Mists (pvp lobby). So they would be extremely pushy and aggressive, would counter-attack, block your skills, have proccing shields preventing you from bursting them too quickly, use heal on themselves and their allies in time, ideally even be able to assess which skills you throw at them and counteract them. That would affect my enjoyment times more than any farming changes.

That's your thing. The majority of players, myself included, would not enjoy that. That's not what GW2 is.Farms should be equalized if anything, not completely removed from the game like this for arbitrary reasons. If other people want to spend 10 hours a day doing the same thing they should be able and allowed to do so.

your the voice for this "majotiry" I guess.GW2 is not a farmwars either, that was never it's intention.Equalising .. yes, nerf the other map farms, let ANET see this was always going to be a failed experiment and push them to making more meaningful content with a much higher replay value than just farm24/7 for trading post gold.You wanna play Istan or other farm maps 24/7.. be ANETs guest, the maps are still there to be farmed.. what you mean is you don't like not being able to hit that 50g per hour dizzy heights anymore

[Cyninja.2954]

Got to say, after the last change I was not as phased by people going nuts (because people were overreacting imo), the farm was still strong. Now the map seems to have taken an actual heavy hit and the farm has been drastically reduced.

Always sad to see a farm go, even if I was not using it as much (I've probably done 10-15 Istan runs total).

The only reasoning, I would assume, behind this second nerf is is that people were still to focused on only 1 farm, meaning Istan was still way more profitable (or generating a huge amount of loot/gold/materials) compared to other farms. Maybe it's an interaction with the Unidentified Items which people use to farm exotics and precursors with high magic find (given Istan seems the most efficient way of acquiring these items). I don't know, I don't know the metrics Arenanet has or uses.

[MDove.2391]

Being somewhat new, I looked forward to earning gold (after so long not doing do) & longingly looked at Legendaries.The camaraderie, the Commanders, & sharing of info has flowed in Istan. Learning lots. Working builds. Never had to worry bout what time.Now just recently, few of us slaughtered. Not enough people. I'm sad.Sad for myself, yes & sad for those people that have been doing extraordinary things towards others, at GH/Pala.^ That's the Meta in meta, Anet. ^

[Laila Lightness.8742]

Nerf all farms and all be well

[Blocki.4931]

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:

@Blocki.4931 said:

@MoriMoriMori.5349 said:

@Blocki.4931 said:Its the inconsistency that bothers me.

Leather farm? Nobody bats an eye that this is farmed 24/7.SW? Been this way for years.

But Istan? No, they don't want people to "only farm one map 24/7" when they were asked.

@Blocki.4931 said:Its the inconsistency that bothers me.

Leather farm? Nobody bats an eye that this is farmed 24/7.SW? Been this way for years.

But Istan? No, they don't want people to "only farm one map 24/7" when they were asked.

Well, the obvious solution is to nerf those as well now ))I don't care, tbh. Farming nerfed or not, it's still won't reduce fan for me too much. If anything, I would prefer those maps (all 80lv maps, actually) be populated with mobs showing a similar AI and capabilities you can see in AI opponents in Heart of the Mists (pvp lobby). So they would be extremely pushy and aggressive, would counter-attack, block your skills, have proccing shields preventing you from bursting them too quickly, use heal on themselves and their allies in time, ideally even be able to assess which skills you throw at them and counteract them. That would affect my enjoyment times more than any farming changes.

That's your thing. The majority of players, myself included, would not enjoy that. That's not what GW2 is.Farms should be equalized if anything, not completely removed from the game like this for arbitrary reasons. If other people want to spend 10 hours a day doing the same thing they should be able and allowed to do so.

your the voice for this "majotiry" I guess.GW2 is not a farmwars either, that was never it's intention.Equalising .. yes, nerf the other map farms, let ANET see this was always going to be a failed experiment and push them to making more meaningful content with a much higher replay value than just farm24/7 for trading post gold.You wanna play Istan or other farm maps 24/7.. be ANETs guest, the maps are still there to be farmed.. what you mean is you don't like not being able to hit that 50g per hour dizzy heights anymore

That majority part was strictly speaking about the stronger enemies, because the majority of people can't even use anything other than their 1 skill in zergs in open world.

[Emberstone.2904]

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:The original farm was far more valuable than anything else in the game. I am surprised that people think that nothing was going to happen to it. It's still very lucrative, even if it's not necessarily best in the game.

I made less than 5g from a full GH run (from breaking the bar to Amala) after tagging all champs. I don't know what you're smoking, but for the time invested, that is anything but lucrative.

[FrigginPaco.4178]

I'll be honest, the farm was disproportionately lucrative. If you could do a full dragon's stand worth of loot in a fraction of the time, I'm afraid that's 100% the definition of unbalanced. Inb4 "DS isn't even that lucrative", perhaps not compared to pre-nerf Istan, but that's the entire point.

[Sammy.5601]

@"FrigginPaco.4178" said:I'll be honest, the farm was disproportionately lucrative. If you could do a full dragon's stand worth of loot in a fraction of the time, I'm afraid that's 100% the definition of unbalanced. Inb4 "DS isn't even that lucrative", perhaps not compared to pre-nerf Istan, but that's the entire point.

Isn't the solution to buff other metas then? Give people a reason to actually do PoF metas too and buff them so they are valuable rather than nerfing this one into the ground? You might say people will just find the most lucrative and in that case, come up with creative solutions! Remove champion loot from Istan and shove all the would be loot from them into the chests which are daily and use the same method for other metas that are buffed to be equally lucrative once a day, let's say at a rate of 20-25 gph which was about what you'd get from Istan prior to this nerf. Maybe even increase it slightly to 25-30gph as it's more effort to do a variety of events, alongside teleport fees and all that.

Some people find issues with a meta train but at least you're doing a variety of content daily and everyone isn't focused in one area all the time, as of right now it's just SW which and I'd honestly rather watch paint try than participate in that.

[Dreamy Lu.3865]

For me - if I understand correctly - what has been modified is the meta event of the area. So, what is - maybe - dead is the interest to repeat it endlessly as a profitable activity to earn gold rapidly. But the meta event is still there and the area with its full content remains unchanged. So, nothing is dead.

Now I don't know if it is logic or not, but what I have witnessed over the years (playing since beta), is that when an event and/or a location, is used as a gold making means via endlessly repeats in a row, soon or later, it gets nerfed in one way or another. It started years ago with the champion trains in Queensdale (some veteran players remember that? :) ), and there are many examples.

I believe that it simply has a lifetime, with always the same 3 phases repeating:

1. Some players find a new way to "farm" gold with a higher benefit, with an event or at a location.
2. The news get spread out and the spot becomes famous, up to being a standard gold making that some players repeat endlessly.
3. After a while, Anet nerfs it.

Now we just had phase 3 on the meta event in Istan. Let's wait for the phase 1 to restart somewhere else. The game is alive. That's all. Personally, I find that good. :)

[Ayakaru.6583]

@Blocki.4931 said:

@Ayakaru.6583 said:Even if no champions spawned, Istan is still a great farm due to unidentified gear drops and volatile magic from the chests

And where do you get them from?

Same place you always did, the chests.Even if you’re getting less, you’re still getting a lot for 40 minutes of work.Maybe its no longer as repeatable as before, so you do it once a day, then do something else.A little variety won’t kill you

Buy a few trophy crates at the end of your run if you don’t need the magic or need more gold