Warclaw has improved the Quality of Roaming

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

@DemonSeed.3528 said:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:Don't you share the same hp pool as golems? Shame they can't do the same to mountsYou dont though.

That's weird. Got ganked by 2 mesmers on my warrior once, got to below half health so I got out and was at the same health as what golem was. (Very rarely do I use golems)

Did you have the full mastery for the golem at the time?

I am mithral recruit.

[DemonSeed.3528]

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@DemonSeed.3528 said:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:Don't you share the same hp pool as golems? Shame they can't do the same to mountsYou dont though.

That's weird. Got ganked by 2 mesmers on my warrior once, got to below half health so I got out and was at the same health as what golem was. (Very rarely do I use golems)

Did you have the full mastery for the golem at the time?

I am mithral recruit.

Ah, I'm just guessing, because I know some high ranked people who don't put all their points in sometimes.

[Zyreva.1078]

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:Of course it does, but when you favour one side of the argument when previously the other side was being favoured, you hit.......balance. [...]

Lol @ the idea roamers were favoured in WvW. Roamers were susceptible to ganks and getting run over by superior numbers all the time, not just for a few minutes until they reached a "safety spot" aka zerg. And it's not like those poor zergling could't do anything against getting ganked on the way to the zerg, like waiting for others to run the same way so they don't have to go alone, or making some small build changes to stand a better chance against attackers, but no, apparently that would be an unacceptable inconvenience. So now those poor zerglings are free to run arround as they please, without having to worry about those evil gankers, while anyone, who dares to engage in combat alone or with a small grp, has no way to get away from mounted zergs. How is this anywhere close to balanced?

It is also ridiculous to see all this denunciation towards roamers for killing players who don't want to fight back, but did any zerg ever ask, whether those players they just ran over, actually wanted that "fight" and had suited numbers and builds? Who are those players that think, they get to decide when it is ok to kill others and when not?I mean, sometimes i left enemies alive, who didn't want to fight, it is not like i have to kill everyone. But it was my own decision to do so, not their "right" to be left alone. And while i appreciate it, if groups/zergs left me alone, i was never demanding it. If they choose to attack, that's ok.

[whoknocks.4935]

Actually roamers now can be compared to mobs in PvE, you take the aggro from a roamer, press the 3 dodges leaps and you are safe to escape because the roamer can't chase you.

WvW was a war zone, with mounts they destroyed at least 50% of the small fights.

Now I just roam on my feet and I wait it's a mount player to attack on me and dismount himself, no way I waste time chasing PvE chickens riding the mount.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

@UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:Of course it does, but when you favour one side of the argument when previously the other side was being favoured, you hit.......balance. [...]

Lol @ the idea roamers were favoured in WvW. Roamers were susceptible to ganks and getting run over by superior numbers all the time, not just for a few minutes until they reached a "safety spot" aka zerg. And it's not like those poor zergling could't do anything against getting ganked on the way to the zerg, like waiting for others to run the same way so they don't have to go alone, or making some small build changes to stand a better chance against attackers, but no, apparently that would be an unacceptable inconvenience. So now those poor zerglings are free to run arround as they please, without having to worry about those evil gankers, while anyone, who dares to engage in combat alone or with a small grp, has no way to get away from mounted zergs. How is this anywhere close to balanced?

It is also ridiculous to see all this denunciation towards roamers for killing players who don't want to fight back, but did any zerg ever ask, whether those players they just ran over, actually wanted that "fight" and had suited numbers and builds? Who are those players that think, they get to decide when it is ok to kill others and when not?I mean, sometimes i left enemies alive, who didn't want to fight, it is not like i have to kill everyone. But it was my own decision to do so, not their "right" to be left alone. And while i appreciate it, if groups/zergs left me alone, i was never demanding it. If they choose to attack, that's ok.

So in your world, if you try to gank a player they can mount up and run away, but if a zerg comes at you, it's impossible for you to mount up and run away? Well, in my world, which unless I took the wrong pill is the real world, if a zerg comes your way you can do the exact same thing.

• Roamers cant gank zerg players / zerg players cant gank roamers
• Roamers don't get the advantage of choosing whether or not a zerg player gets attacked / Zergs don't get the advantage of choosing whether or not a roamer gets attacked

Balanced, balanced, balanced.

Your post does nothing to refute my statement that Roamers always had the advantage, because you got to pick and choose to attack a zerg player, someone whose gear, traits, and talents aren't suitable for dueling. Now if you got ganked by another Roamer, your l337 skillz should be what saves you. If you spotted a zerg, which isn't hard considering their size, you again had the tools to evade them, and if a zerg actually chased them down, congrats, you did your server a big service by occupying the attention of 10-50 players who would otherwise be attacking an objective. When a zerg member attacks a roamer such as yourself, we call that "squirreling", and that term is derogatory. Serious guilds/squads will censure/kick members from the raid for that behaviour...that is, unless you were harassing the zerg or scouting on them, in which case, fair game.

But now you also have a mount. You have Sniff, just like the zerg players. You have increased movement speed (on friendly territory) just like the zerg players. You have 3 evades and 11k health pool...just...like...zerg...players.

What you're really upset about is that you can't ambush players who were already at a disadvantage to you, which made them easier kills. Now the only meat you'll have is other roamers, people who will give you a real challenge. If fighting is what you want, this should make you happy. No more one sided fights against players who aren't geared/equipped to duel you.

[Zyreva.1078]

Can't mount while in combat. Zerglings don't have to be unmounted outside of their zerg.I got to choose to attack lonely players on zerg builds. They got to choose to run arround alone with builds not suited for running arround alone.

And again, why is it YOU who gets to decide, what is "fair game" and what not?

[MithranArkanere.8957]

All things considered, mounts have done more good than harm.

Most of they key points that needed to be addressed such as speed were addressed, and the remaining ones like sneaky exploits and non-pof players being left behind should be taken care of in successive updates.

Now, what we need to favor roaming is more and better reasons to keep players spread all over the map. and defending all locations, not only key locations easily defendable by making time before the zerg arrives.
People leave supply lines undefended too often, because it's more fun and profitable to follow the tag, and if you stick around chances are nobody may come along or if someone comes you'll be outnumbered.

A roamer shouldn't spend most of their time flipping camps. There should be decent reasons for players to stick around a supply line from camps to keeps and towers without losing their participation if no one comes along, so when someone does come along, there's someone already there, and we get fights.
If people get bored or lose participation, they'll leave, and if no one is there, anyone who comes along will only have to face NPCs. And the amount of overall PvP in the mode decreases or gets focused mostly on zerg fights.
Have you ever tried escorting dolyaks? Mindbogglingly boring if no players come along to fight you.

That isn't really a problem of the warclaw, but an inherent problem with the game mode that the warclaw has made more patent.

One possible way to address that would be a 4th faction. This faction would be mostly compromised of NPCs (aetherblades most likely) and players who choose to enlist as 'mercenaries' for the 4th faction instead going to the Edge of the Mists when all of their maps are full. This 4th faction would attempt to take over anything the other 3 factions leave undefended for too long, turning the map back to gray. NPCs in this faction would teleport away when two or more factions collide, to void disturbing fights between players. So if they are trying to take over a green tower and blue comes along, as soon as they are attacked a bit by both teams, they'd run away leaving behind only a green vs blue fight.Players enlisted as mercenaries would get bounties telling them what they should take (e.g.: "Take Ascension Bay"), but they can still choose what to take over. Players would never be sent to fight within their current matchup or even tier, maybe not even be able to choose where their mercenary squad or party gets sent to, to reduce possible shenanigans.With something like that in place, players who choose to stick around would have regular fights either against NPCs or players, keeping them around different locations, and so when enemies come, it'll be more likely that there's someone already there, thus spreading people and increasing the frequency of smaller scale fights.

I'd be even better if each supply line was a meta-event on itself, and players who actively defend the supply line would be rewarded in kind at every tick and at the end of a skirmishm, and since supply lines overlap, more active play, patrolling a larger area and successfully taking and defending objectives gets more rewarding, even more so when fighting players.

And yes, I'm aware that this is mostly "getting more PvP by having more PvE", but as counter-intuitive as it may seem, if you think about it, it would work if done right.But it can only be added in a particular way that would promore more smaller scale fights and avoid tempting players into focusing their attention on NPCs.
The 'extra PvE' has to be scattered and in small scale, and disappear when actual PvP starts, and it has to encourage patrolling around. The goal should be getting people to stick around a bit longer instead running around playing magical chairs, so they have to face other players, not letting them sit by a camp and wait their ticks go up.

[apharma.3741]

The warclaw is the end of roaming, it is now ganking only.

People now run away from even fights and the PPT heroes can now dodge having to do any player vs player combat at all. Best part is stick to your safe spaces and you're faster than anything and only lonbow slb can be a threat to you. Did slb need this on top of not being nerfed in WvW at all and having been buffed before Christmas?

The warclaw should at least have speed reduced to strictly swiftness only. I'd argue it should be removed but we know that's not happening.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

@"UmbraNoctis.1907" said:

I got to choose to attack lonely players on zerg builds. They got to choose to run arround alone with builds not suited for running arround alone.

And again, why is it YOU who gets to decide, what is "fair game" and what not?

Er, no. Taking a roaming build into a zerg puts your team at a disadvantage, because while your survivability goes up, your spike damage does not. Zerg players run zerg builds because that is what is needed. An Elementalist has a very different build for roaming than they do for playing in a zerg.

To answer your 2nd question, see again you're just not seeing it.

Before the patch the ROAMER was the only one who had a choice. Now with the mount, both the roamer and the zerg player are given equal choice to either engage or avoid contact. Balanced.

You can no longer gank people that are ill geared/built to fight you anymore, and that makes you upset, because best you'll get now is a fair fight against another roamer, where skill will be the most determining factor for victory. That this upsets you speaks volumes.

In the end it was ANETs decision, it's done, and I'm done talking about it because it evened the playing field, which is better for everyone. That people will be upset that they lost an advantage they used to have is understandable, but I suspect a low turn out for the pity party; most players I know have no issue with solo roamers, but all despised gankers who would attack from ambush, but if things didn't go their way, scampered off to safety or to reset, rather than stay and fight. So skilled lol. GG.

[apharma.3741]

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:

@"UmbraNoctis.1907" said:

I got to choose to attack lonely players on zerg builds. They got to choose to run arround alone with builds not suited for running arround alone.

And again, why is it YOU who gets to decide, what is "fair game" and what not?

Er, no. Taking a roaming build into a zerg puts your team at a disadvantage, because while your survivability goes up, your spike damage does not. Zerg players run zerg builds because that is what is needed. An Elementalist has a very different build for roaming than they do for playing in a zerg.

To answer your 2nd question, see again you're just not seeing it.

Before the patch the ROAMER was the only one who had a choice. Now with the mount,

both

the roamer and the zerg player are given equal choice to either engage or avoid contact. Balanced.

You can no longer gank people that are ill geared/built to fight you anymore, and that makes you upset, because best you'll get now is a fair fight against another roamer, where skill will be the most determining factor for victory. That this upsets you speaks volumes.

In the end it was ANETs decision, it's done, and I'm done talking about it because it evened the playing field, which is better for everyone. That people will be upset that they lost an advantage they used to have is understandable, but I suspect a low turn out for the pity party; most players I know have no issue with solo roamers, but all despised gankers who would attack from ambush, but if things didn't go their way, scampered off to safety or to reset, rather than stay and fight. So skilled lol. GG.

Roaming builds have self sufficiency and are good at small scale fights, they become terrible in large fights and around more people.Zerg builds have poor self sufficiency and are good at large fights, they become terrible when singled out and with no-one around.

This is balanced.

What is not balanced is now zerg builds have no down side, alone they are more than capable of avoiding their downside, there's no risk for the increased reward for being better in large scale. There's no punishment for being a bad player and having to work your way back to your team alone.

"Gankers" as you keep decrying had a role in thinning out re-reinforcements and picking off people who were slow, that is how they work, it's by design. Now instead everyone can run their zerg builds mashing buttons and being carried by numbers. So skilled lol. GG.

[coro.3176]

I roam because I like to play with things like

• projectiles - you literally cannot use these in zerg fights because a few players cycling bubbles nullify ALL projectiles for EVERYONE. You just cannot use projectiles (unless they're unblockable) in organized zerg fighting. They still work in small fights though.
• conditions - same idea - the amount of cleanse in the game was never reduced back when the great condi nerf patch hit. condi has struggled to keep up ever since. You've got supports cleansing condi from 5 players around them every few seconds. It means you're putting out maybe 1/10th of the damage you'd normally deal.
• single-target skills - these are a liability in group play too - if you have a single target attack that hits 1 player, you are "wasting" your attack in a zerg when you could be attacking 5 players.

now .. if you can't force a fight in small engagements, what is even the point of having these skills in WvW?

[displayname.8315]

These discussions really show just how many "roamers" spend all their time picking soft targets with no real challenge. Or used to.

I know most of the real talent left the game long ago but this is just sad.

[coro.3176]

@"displayname.8315" said:These discussions really show just how many "roamers" spend all their time picking soft targets with no real challenge. Or used to.

I know most of the real talent left the game long ago but this is just sad.

Uh. No. First thing I do when I get in WvW is go run toward the enemy's home camps, flip them, then defend them against more and more enemies until I'm eventually overwhelmed.

I'm fighting usually 1v2, sometimes 1v3 or 1v4.

It beats sitting in a blob pressing 1.

[displayname.8315]

@coro.3176 said:

@"displayname.8315" said:These discussions really show just how many "roamers" spend all their time picking soft targets with no real challenge. Or used to.

I know most of the real talent left the game long ago but this is just sad.

Uh. No. First thing I do when I get in WvW is go run toward the enemy's home camps, flip them, then defend them against more and more enemies until I'm eventually overwhelmed.

I'm fighting usually 1v2, sometimes 1v3 or 1v4.

It beats sitting in a blob pressing 1.

Nice. Getting fights, making a difference on the map. Not greifing or BM'ing. Need more roaming like this to come back. One of the last of a dying breed.

[Xtinct.7031]

@EremiteAngel.9765 said:What does roaming mean to you?

• Scouting Keeps and Towers?
• Flipping and Defending Supply camps?
• Shadowing enemy Zergs?
• Walking or killing Dolyaks?
• Refreshing Siege?
• Repairing walls and gates?
• Ninja-ing enemy Towers and Keeps?
• Picking on the tails of enemy Zergs?
• Tapping Keeps to contest Waypoints?
• Trolling?
• +1 a fight?
• More diverse builds because MS traits/runes are now not mandatory?
• Testing your skills against other Roamers who want to fight?
• Stomping Zerglings who don't want to fight?

All of this has been improved with the Warclaw!Be it the increased movement, to the extra HP, or the anti-downstate.Increased efficiency in everything!All improved!

Except the last one.You can't catch and stomp on Zerglings who don't want to fight that easily anymore!And I say that is a GOOD thing!

Where is the honor in stomping a Zergling who isn't able to fight back!?Where is the glory in jumping on someone who isn't built for roaming!?Pick on someone your size!

Gone are the days when roamers get to gank Zerglings easily and chest thump and howl in victory.The quantity of cheap easy ganks has decreased but the quality of roaming overall has improved!

3 cheers for Warclaw!A toast to Warclaw!

In the distance, a Necro Zergling can be seen riding on a big cat and running off into the sunset howling in glee as a few enemy roamers chase futilely behind.

@EremiteAngel.9765 said:What does roaming mean to you?

• Scouting Keeps and Towers?
• Flipping and Defending Supply camps?
• Shadowing enemy Zergs?
• Walking or killing Dolyaks?
• Refreshing Siege?
• Repairing walls and gates?
• Ninja-ing enemy Towers and Keeps?
• Picking on the tails of enemy Zergs?
• Tapping Keeps to contest Waypoints?
• Trolling?
• +1 a fight?
• More diverse builds because MS traits/runes are now not mandatory?
• Testing your skills against other Roamers who want to fight?
• Stomping Zerglings who don't want to fight?

All of this has been improved with the Warclaw!Be it the increased movement, to the extra HP, or the anti-downstate.Increased efficiency in everything!All improved!

Except the last one.You can't catch and stomp on Zerglings who don't want to fight that easily anymore!And I say that is a GOOD thing!

Where is the honor in stomping a Zergling who isn't able to fight back!?Where is the glory in jumping on someone who isn't built for roaming!?Pick on someone your size!

Gone are the days when roamers get to gank Zerglings easily and chest thump and howl in victory.The quantity of cheap easy ganks has decreased but the quality of roaming overall has improved!

3 cheers for Warclaw!A toast to Warclaw!

In the distance, a Necro Zergling can be seen riding on a big cat and running off into the sunset howling in glee as a few enemy roamers chase futilely behind.

Disagree, and I had a feeling you were not really an actual roamer the whole time. As a legit roamer, I have mixed feelings about this the more I use the mount and the more users use mounts to avoid engagements. The majority of the bullet points I disagree with, and frankly truly shows how you personally always played this game mode. Running around with 40+ others k training, how is that any fun? for reals

[Henry.5713]

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:

@Henry.5713 said:In short, mounts clearly favour one side of the argument.

Of course it does, but when you favour one side of the argument when previously the other side was being favoured, you hit.......balance.

Balance would mean mounts come with a downside to everyone, including those who run as a part of a zerg. Which isn't the case at all. Neither do I consider strong ganking builds being able to kill off a zerg player an imbalance. I understand people are upset when they get ganked, but come on.Why should I blame a ganker for picking off solo zerglings while those blobs pick on smaller groups or solo targets more often than not.Seems a little silly to me. Hence my previous remark about the silliness of pointing fingers.

Back to the topic then. The former more balanced state meant zerglings were good as a part of a blob, while roamers were strong solo or in small groups which happened include having higher mobility than almost everyone else. A mobility that was needed to stay alive against far larger groups as well as to be able to pick off those who usually hide behind said groups. Thus a harsh increase in the base speed of all builds clearly favours one side over the other.The other rather broken aspects of the mount have already been looked at which means any gankers or roamers will continue to be bad at running as a part of a blob. That's how it should be. They will not have that huge upside thanks to the mount that allows them to do something they weren't able to do before. Unlike zerglings who are now able to move at a speed they could have never reached without making sacrafices and compromises within their builds. Speed that gives them an advantage that is not mirriored by any advantages to the other side.

[RangerThings.9810]

As a solo roamer and ganker-to-charge-bloodlust-sigil, I like the Warclaw.

I've changed my build, I don't need all the mobility, I need to deliver a big burst to dismount, then sustain until CD, and then it's a duel. I get to try more builds now. I can adjust my build before fights. I actually enjoy the 'circling' before a fight, it's games imitating (animal) life. Those without Warclaw are the softest targets, so it's almost too easy.

I love being able to escape and even run through the middle of a zerg. If someone really doesn't want to fight me, they can usually run away. I get it. I gank to build bloodlust, otherwise it's a waste of time. And especially w/ warclaws on the prowl, you don't want to waste time dismounted...

That's one thing I don't like: I don't take as many sentries and camps. The price of dismounting is not worth it if you suspect adds. I used to be able to get away, now I can't. So in that regard, the actual function of roaming has diminished, but choosing 1vX fights just got easier <3 .

[Balsa.3951]

@Opal.9324 said:Where is the honor in a mounted zerg running down a solo roamer who either doesn't have a mount yet or is stuck in combat?Pick on someone your size!

A roamer on an mount in his own territory can escape from the Zerg

[Duckota.4769]

@"displayname.8315" said:These discussions really show just how many "roamers" spend all their time picking soft targets with no real challenge. Or used to.

I know most of the real talent left the game long ago but this is just sad.

This discussion was made by a soft target pretending to be a roamer... so.... there is that.

[Prinzsecond.4863]

@"Opal.9324" said:Where is the honor in a mounted zerg running down a solo roamer who either doesn't have a mount yet or is stuck in combat?Pick on someone your size!

Never expect honor from your enemies. There are a few that live in the Spirit of honorable fights, but only few do. Aside from that, if you are in enemy territory, you are basically an "invader" and Need to be eliminated. And if you are in your own territory without Mount, the enemy zerg is the invader, the "bad guys", meaning to kill anyone.

[Ashen.2907]

Disagree.

None of what you call improvements are such in my opinion. The reduction of fun in the game mode means less play time in wvw and the game overall (for me). Less play time means less money spent.

BTW, if you do not look down on zerglings then how do you justify your attitude toward them here?

[meri.9187]

People act like roamers are actually what's wrong with this gamemode. It is perfectly fair, reasonable, and has been in the game since launch that a small-scale built player could take down a zergling easily. This provided an extra layer to macro play in any given matchup in that one would naturally fear a server with a lot of roamers as individual parts of your large force would get picked off when trying to return to the fight. A gank squad has been a completely viable way to help your server win fights and matchups. I've done it myself on many occasions, picking off players trying to return to defend their bay on the way from garrison or the like. And you know what? That helped our server win those fights and take (or defend) those objectives.

Now I'm not exclusively a roamer although I have been for the past 2 years. I paid my dues in the zerg and was on the other side of this equation plenty of times- and I still have no bone to pick with smallscale players. To have players mount up and triple dodge through any players that may want to fight and kill them makes defense and massive blobbing even easier and more braindead. Recently I was taking north camp with two friends, and we saw the same person die, respawn, mount up, run back, and repeat this process 7 times over the course of 10 minutes. Of course, said player was absolutely terrible as were his servermates, or we'd have lost that engagement after, I don't know, the third time they ran back.

OP, you are one of the only people I see defending this terrible design choice, which is probably because you play nothing but necro, which is a class balanced around being slow but powerful once it joins the fight. This mount allows horrible players to run away from 1v1 or other even-scale scenarios. But who's the first to triple leap in with their mount and engage you once they have the numbers advantage? That's right, these same trash players who full disengaged from you earlier. That includes the poor widdle necro who jumps in with the mount and presses all their shade skills on you once they have a 5v1.

[daydreamer.3092]

Not roaming:Scouting Keeps and Towers?Refreshing Siege?Repairing walls and gates?Ninja-ing enemy Towers and Keeps?+1 a fight?

Random Tasks, if there are no real roaming things to do:Walking or killing Dolyaks?Shadowing enemy Zergs?Tapping Keeps to contest Waypoints?

Tasks of Roaming imo:Flipping and Defending Supply camps?-> this is annoying with two ppl riding mouts, who rotate to contest the circle. annoying is a very friendly description to thisPicking on the tails of enemy Zergs?-> is more annoying too, because you have to be unmounted to do this and zerglings will turn around and chase you with their mounts, this will promoteinvisibility even more

More diverse builds because MS traits/runes are now not mandatory?

• is will be less diverse, because ppl can now skip this decision (some didnt use them, some did)

Stomping Zerglings who don't want to fight?

• will be harderTesting your skills against other Roamers who want to fight?
  • nothing changed here

Trolling?
mounts are great for this task

[displayname.8315]

@"ventusthunder.5067" said:People act like roamers are actually what's wrong with this gamemode. It is perfectly fair, reasonable, and has been in the game since launch that a small-scale built player could take down a zergling easily.

If you work off that assumption then some of the pro-gank arguments are true. In my experience a good player with a more traditional WvW build can do well enough, or can get away with ease, or can outplay sometimes.

Most of the people who go down are newbs. Boring for both parties involved. Guys need to pay attention to rank. If I see a no-rank spamming 1 and moving terribly I let them go. I see others doing the same in fights sometimes.

But whatever if you want to be mean to the newbs its a sandbox mode after all.

[sephiroth.4217]

@Balsa.3951 said:

@Opal.9324 said:Where is the honor in a mounted zerg running down a solo roamer who either doesn't have a mount yet or is stuck in combat?Pick on someone your size!

A roamer on an mount in his own territory can escape from the Zerg

Didn't know you could mount up if you didnt own one or were stuck in combat, would you mind posting a video showing me how to do so?