No Downstate poll (please read post first)

[TinkTinkPOOF.9201]

This poll is for WvW ONLY

Removal of downstate would mean all traits/skills/items etc that have downstate functions will be reworked/balanced to have other uses after downstates removal.

Nerfing downstate would be one or any combination of: No invulnerable stage on transition to downstate, 1:1 revive cap, removal/nerfing of downed skills, no self rez, no rally, etc etc. You are welcome to suggest your own changes or combination of changes if you don't like what is listed here, this is not meant to be an exhaustive list but rather a description of general intention.

Keeping downstate would mean no changes at all to the current system, it would stay as is.

This poll is for all of WvW, not just specific maps/servers/times.

[GDchiaScrub.3241]

Biased. No option to improve downstate was provided.

D:

[Some Call Me Tim.2319]

I'm all for removing downstate. I die as well as anyone else but how sweet it is when you fight a group and don't have to waste time cutting off the heads of scum as they lay on the ground writhing... :P

[Ryudnard.2587]

If you are going to remove the down state, let us rezz while in combat.

[spectrito.8513]

To enterily remove downed state, aside from reworking skills and traits, power creep needs to be adressed but after 1.5 years after PoF all the balance patches felt random and were irrelevant for the most part.

Imo downed state should be removed, skills reworked and power creep adressed, but i after all the last patches i sincerely doubt their ability to understand whats wrong with their game.

[aspirine.5839]

nerfing is something Anet could look at in the (near)future.Just for WvW, I have no idea how downstate is looked upon in pvp. I think it's fine in PVE.

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

@Ryudnard.2587 said:If you are going to remove the down state, let us rezz while in combat.

I would be down with that, as long as there is a lower cap of # of rezzers to compensate for the reason of change

[EremiteAngel.9765]

Downstate should not be removed because there are some who enjoy playing support medic builds that involves rezzing downstates.

[XenesisII.1540]

Vote to keep it, because the work required to balance the game without it would never happen, they can't even balance properly as it is.

[TinkTinkPOOF.9201]

@GDchiaScrub.3241 said:Biased. No option to improve downstate was provided.

D:

Assuming you are trolling, as I have not seen any people suggesting such, the biggest argument being to keep, remove or find something in the middle.

@Ryudnard.2587 said:If you are going to remove the down state, let us rezz while in combat.

This would be under nerfing downstate in my mind. Like I said in the above post, nerfing doesn't have to mean just what I listed, those are just the most common ideas posted here on the forums. If you have other nerf or change suggestions under the nerfing vote, feel free to list them out in detail, it helps solidify ideas for what people really want. In this case if you want downstate removed, but replaced with the ability to revive defeated players while in combat.

@spectrito.8513 said:To enterily remove downed state, aside from reworking skills and traits, power creep needs to be adressed but after 1.5 years after PoF all the balance patches felt random and were irrelevant for the most part.

Imo downed state should be removed, skills reworked and power creep adressed, but i after all the last patches i sincerely doubt their ability to understand whats wrong with their game.

Downstate staying or being removed or anything in between, some of the over performing builds need to be addressed period in my mind, so I think we agree here. However Anet, often times when nerfing these, ends up nerfing the whole class rather than specific mechanics or stacking modifiers that are the source of the problem. There are meant to be some trade offs in builds, however some are designed in a way that trade offs are minimal or non-existent.

@"XenesisII.1540" said:Vote to keep it, because the work required to balance the game without it would never happen, they can't even balance properly as it is.

As I said in the above post, the poll is based on the idea of rework/balance with it's removal, as I wanted to keep the "what if" to a minimal.

[XenesisII.1540]

Your removal also only states the rework of skills/traits/items related to down state, and I believe much more balancing would need to be done, again work I believe they would never bother to do, they would keep things to a minimum.

[Kylden Ar.3724]

I'm just going to say this again. Downstate is not the problem.

Rally is the problem.

Rally is what makes us hate tag a longs following a zerg or havoc team that become rallybots for the enemy when we engage.

Rally is what allows superior numbers to always bowl over skill as all it takes is tagging an enemy that goes down to get back up instantly.

Without Rally we would see;

1) No more rallybots.2) Larger zergs would have to ignore their downed or lose more DPS/Support as those people stopped to get thier downed up.

Downed people are bleeding out. They need to first aid themselves (Bandage) or get help (player revives).

Rally makes no sense. I have never heard of someone getting mauled by a bear suddenly getting up fine cause he shot a nearby coyote.

Remember how WvW got a little better when they lowered the max number of people that could Rally from tagging an enemy? Imagine how much better it would be if that number was zero.

Rally is what needs to go.

[TinkTinkPOOF.9201]

@"XenesisII.1540" said:Your removal also only states the rework of skills/traits/items related to down state, and I believe much more balancing would need to be done, again work I believe they would never bother to do, they would keep things to a minimum.

Then you are talking about over performing builds, which is an issue not related to downstate and is something that needs balance whether downstate is kept or removed, as those builds are problems full stop. This is to keep "what if" to a minimum, as you can "what if" all the options to death if you wanted to, and that is not constructive. The poll is based on the assumption that the intentions are good and Anet will adjust things accordingly, kept, changed, or removed.

If you have specific things that need change based on it's removal, please post them in detail and what changes you would suggest. If it is dealing with over preforming builds well, that is another issue and outside the scope of the poll, as those nerfs to given builds are already a heated topic (with LOTS of threads already posted about them) and would only serve to take the discussion off topic.

[AliamRationem.5172]

I like the idea of placing a cooldown on rally/revive. There are legitimate gameplay dynamics here that I'd like to see remain, but repeatedly having to down the same people multiple times can be a bit obnoxious at times.

To throw a bone to classes that trait for revives, perhaps allowing them to remove or reduce the cooldown in some way?

[Krypto.2069]

@"Balthazzarr.1349" said:I'm all for removing downstate. I die as well as anyone else but how sweet it is when you fight a group and don't have to waste time cutting off the heads of scum as they lay on the ground writhing... :P

QUOTE of the Month!!! Right here!!!!Dude, you made my day! :lol:

I either want DS removed or HEAVILY nerfed: Reduce DS HP by 75%, NO Invulnerablity frames, and NO RALLY at ALL.

[XenesisII.1540]

@TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

@"XenesisII.1540" said:Your removal also only states the rework of skills/traits/items related to down state, and I believe much more balancing would need to be done, again work I believe they would never bother to do, they would keep things to a minimum.

Then you are talking about over performing builds, which is an issue not related to downstate and is something that needs balance whether downstate is kept or removed, as those builds are problems full stop. This is to keep "what if" to a minimum, as you can "what if" all the options to death if you wanted to, and that is not constructive. The poll is based on the assumption that the intentions are good and Anet will adjust things accordingly, kept, changed, or removed.

If you have specific things that need change based on it's removal, please post them in detail and what changes you would suggest. If it is dealing with over preforming builds well, that is another issue and outside the scope of the poll, as those nerfs to given builds are already a heated topic (with LOTS of threads already posted about them) and would only serve to take the discussion off topic.

Sorry but there's really no point, you have stuff like elementalist having mist form which makes up for the fact that they carry one of the the lowest hitpoint pools, wouldn't even trust for them to balance around the skills/traits/items either because they are still usable in pve, they will do the bare minimum for changes.

Anet cannot be relied on to balance the removal and everything else around it, no matter how much you want to present it as minimal work.

[juno.1840]

@"GDchiaScrub.3241" said:Biased. No option to improve downstate was provided.

D:

In a way, the "Nerf Downstate" is effectively the same... it could be read as "change downstate"

[HazyDaisy.4107]

Keep downstate, REMOVE rally!

Increase wxp for kills

Add a participation timer extension and wxp for healers who revive others whether down or fully dead (small and simple like 2 mins extension and 25 wxp so it cant be exploited) and like anything else, you don't get that extension if the action isn't completed e.g. you are killed trying to revive the dead or they wp mid revive.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

remove rallydecrease bleed out kill time to 3 secreduce max ressers to 3 pplforce respawn on death after 30 sec

[TinkTinkPOOF.9201]

@"HazyDaisy.4107" said:Keep downstate, REMOVE rally!

Increase wxp for kills

Add a participation timer extension and wxp for healers who revive others whether down or fully dead (small and simple like 2 mins extension and 25 wxp so it cant be exploited) and like anything else, you don't get that extension if the action isn't completed e.g. you are killed trying to revive the dead or they wp mid revive.

Your vote should be nerf downstate then. "No rally" is even listed in one of the items for nerfing, voting to keep downstate means to keep it without changes, as is. You can view "nerf downstate" as "change downstate" like someone else has said. I used Nerf because I figured people would claim it was biased if I labeled it "change", however it's also why I added the description list to explain what each means.

[TinkTinkPOOF.9201]

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:remove rallydecrease bleed out kill time to 3 secreduce max ressers to 3 pplforce respawn on death after 30 sec

Thanks for adding input to your vote. Any reason for the forced respawn? Most people I see suggest this is for spying reasons, being able to be dead inside a keep giving information on enemy movement/siege etc etc. If that is the case, would just forcing a map screen (for WP selection) be good enough? Or is it that you don't think people should be able to be rezzed from defeated after 30 seconds at all?

[Stand The Wall.6987]

@TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:Thanks for adding input to your vote. Any reason for the forced respawn? Most people I see suggest this is for spying reasons, being able to be dead inside a keep giving information on enemy movement/siege etc etc. If that is the case, would just forcing a map screen (for WP selection) be good enough? Or is it that you don't think people should be able to be rezzed from defeated after 30 seconds at all?

spying mostly, and to force the zerg to slow down a bit when they lose a lot of ppl. zergs already have enough momentum.

[MithranArkanere.8957]

Even if this poll was for removing downed state, it won't mean there's actually more players who want it removed.I'm positive the only thing removing downed state would achieve is getting more players who do not usually visit the forums to come and complain about it.

If no downed state weeks have shown us anything, is that balance relies too much on downed state to remove it. To remove it, combat would have to become so slow it'd be the equivalent of everyone going around with dire or soldier gear.

[TinkTinkPOOF.9201]

@"MithranArkanere.8957" said:Even if this poll was for removing downed state, it won't mean there's actually more players who want it removed.I'm positive the only thing removing downed state would achieve is getting more players who do not usually visit the forums to come and complain about it.

If no downed state weeks have shown us anything, is that balance relies too much on downed state to remove it. To remove it, combat would have to become so slow it'd be the equivalent of everyone going around with dire or soldier gear.

The poll is a poll, with all 3 options listed, it is not for or against downstate, I made it as unbiased as possible and even made changing downstate sound negative by using "nerf" rather than "change".

If you are going to suggest downstate is better balanced, please give specific examples. Not vague feelings.

[zengara.8301]

I voted for it to stay, but yeah. This whole poll is quiet biased af xD